ERP 061: How To Experience More Togetherness In Relationship With Leisa Peterson [TRANSCRIPT]

ERP 061: How To Experience More Togetherness In Relationship With Leisa Peterson

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Welcome to The Empowered Relationship Podcast, helping you turn relationship challenges into opportunities and setting you up for relationship success. Your host, Dr. Jessica Higgins, is a licensed psychologist and relationship coach who shares valuable tips, tools and resources for you to dramatically improve your relationship.

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Jessica: Hi, thank you for joining me today as we continue to talk about relationship tools and principles. I always enjoy contemplating and preparing for these shows as I think about my life and just relationships in general. Again, I want to reiterate: we are all on this path together. This terrain of intimacy is complex and is dynamic, and is sometimes really complicated. My goal as I share with you over and over again is for you to feel equipped in how to negotiate some of these challenges, for you to have muscles built; and not that it’s going to take some of the discomfort away, because part of what I’m also wanting you to be mindful of is that the terrain of this is requiring you to grow, is asking you to mature, so it’s going to feel difficult at times. But knowing what’s on the other side, knowing who you’re going to become and what your relationship is going to develop and evolve into is the beauty and is worth it.

Our guest for today’s episode is a wealth coach. She defines wealth as a full spectrum experience, and this is including your physical health as well as your relationships. So while some of what she’s talking about might seem peripheral to relationships – she talks a little bit about career and your livelihood in your profession, in different environments, and what she’s talking about thematically I want you to listen to for the deeper themes. We do talk about relationship and she offers a lot of really good insight, particularly around our mindset. She’s talking about a collaborative mindset, where people can work together to achieve goals in a much more powerful way, which allows that collaborative approach to bring out the best in everyone, or in your relationship, both of you, and that there’s an opportunity for compassion and forgiveness.

She talks about this collaborative, compassionate, connected mindset as not easy at times; she does acknowledge that, and she does reference her own journey with forgiveness with some really deep losses in her life. Now, in this episode I don’t ask her to share about that, we stay pretty much on our topic, but I did put the link to her sharing about her experiences with loss and her learning in forgiveness and compassion. She’s got an episode on Bruce Van Horn’s Life Is A Marathon podcast where she shares her personal story. So if you’re interested in hearing more around what she’s talking about, you can access that link on today’s show notes, and you can find the show notes on my website, which is DrJessicaHiggins.com and click on Podcast, and you’ll find the most recent episode there at the top. Again, you can click on the show notes and you’ll find all the links mentioned.

In addition to our guest talking about a collaborative way of working in a relationship, she’s also identifying how we can be in a scarcity strategy, or scarcity mindset. She gives us a lot of examples around what that looks like and she also gives us some really important tools and tips around how to transform that, one of which has to do with self-responsibility. If you’ve listened to my podcast, you know that this is something that I encourage, and in this episode you’ll hear Leisa and I reference this self-responsibility approach as a very kind of advanced strategy, advanced skill set, because it’s difficult. We’re just trying to normalize how hard this is, so I say very transparently that everything I talk about and share with you guys are things that I practice.

Sometimes I have to remind myself, sometimes I’m emotional and I don’t want to do it, but I do it because I’m committed to the path and I’m committed to this work, because I know the other ways are not effective and they do not result in what I’m ultimately wanting. I’m wanting self-growth, as well as relationship growth, and I know that my other ways of being don’t allow me that; it doesn’t help me, it just keeps me stuck. So when we reference this being advanced work, it’s more to just acknowledge how difficult it is. We talked a little bit after the episode and Leisa was really just saying “I wouldn’t want this to be another tool for people to judge themselves. I really want to invite them into self-compassion when they’re listening to this episode, that there’s really no blame or shame if you don’t feel like you’re practicing self-responsibility.”

We all fall victim to this self-concern, we’re human. And the goal is to kind of use this as inspiration, as a guidance tool and mechanism. So less about self-judgment, “I’m not doing it right, I’m not good at this” and beating yourself up about it, but more of “What’s the invitation, what’s the calling? What is this moving you into?” So we are all growing, we all have a direction we’re moving, and this is just helping provide some information and opportunity for you to consider.

Leisa Peterson is a Business EFT expert and Wealth Coach specializing in helping people clear their fear, doubt and overwhelm to create joyful, profitable, authentic and fulfilling businesses. Leisa, thank you for joining us today.

Leisa: Thank you so much, Jessica, for having me.

Jessica: Wonderful. So I know you’re a wealth coach and I’ve had a little bit of exposure to your work and I know your definition your wealth is more comprehensive that I think people typically think about. Do you want to share a little bit of how you operate with wealth?

Leisa: Wonderful, I would love to do that. Really the best way I can summarize it is I kind of went to the top of the money mountain, if you will, in my career, and then I hopped over to the spiritual top of the mountain, and had the rare opportunity to experience being in one world and in the other, and what I teach now is that we don’t have to live in one world or the other, and that we can actually live prosperously, with great levels of peace and joy in our life and that we’re not sacrificing our material wealth, nor our spiritual development because we’re in pursuit of material wealth. It’s really this bridge between those two worlds that I’m very fascinated and enamored by. Does that make sense?

Jessica: Yes, and I think that so many people that I’ve encountered who are more maybe in the corporate world, and obviously my field has been psychology and I’m coaching now and working with people in relationships and I hear many times people are like “So amazing that you do what you do and you’re making a difference in the world”, and some people have a complex of like “I’m in the corporate world and I’m making a lot of money but I don’t know that I’m actually making a difference in the way that maybe I would love to”. Or people who are on the spiritual pursuit sometimes think money is bad, and they have some issues with money and even being in pursuit of it, so I love what you’re describing, that it doesn’t have to be either/or.

Leisa: Yes, it’s super fun. It’s a dance, that’s all I can say. It’s not like there’s a right way or a wrong way, it’s that it’s a whole new way of looking at life and how to navigate the challenges that come to us, and also the opportunities.

Jessica: Yes, because even as I’m saying what I’m saying I think there is definitely spiritual path to the corporate world. There’s something in every task that could be seen as a more rich endeavor, right? That’s kind of your mindset.

Leisa: It really is, and I think the biggest thing that is challenging, at least from my history of being in the corporate world for many years is that ideally speaking, when you’re able to operate at what is called the level five tribal leadership level, where it’s all about ‘we’ and it’s not about you, it’s totally possible to do that in the corporate world, and that’s how the mouse that we use on our computer was invented. There was a group of people working in a corporate environment, operating at this total ‘we’ level, so it’s completely possible, but the challenge is is most of the time the structure of the environment isn’t supportive of that way of operating, so we find ourselves drawn into more about me, and the ego, and being very solo-focused.

And that even happens obviously in the entrepreneurial world, we do the same thing – we get in our silos and we don’t operate in this ‘we’ level, but to me that is the sweet spot in life, when we’re collaborating with one another and also with the universe, that’s where this incredible joy is available to us, and I think it’s hard even as I say that to sink your teeth into how can it be about ‘we’, and yet you’re also at the same time filling your bank account with money. Because all of a sudden you step into this other place, and it’s like “We! Oh, it doesn’t matter if I have all of my needs met as long as the group has their needs met”, and that’s not what it’s all about. It’s so fascinating to kind of experience and play with it.

Jessica: Now I’m super intrigued about what you’re describing around the environment that really does support more of the ‘we’, and corporate world or otherwise. Are you open to sharing what your thoughts are?

Leisa: Sure. I can easily say that I didn’t operate at that level when I was working in the corporate world. Maybe someday I’ll go back and consult for people who are in that environment, but as I see it, there’s just so much beautiful opportunity to take the ‘I’ out of the equation and really operate in this place of “How can we achieve greatness without it being about any one individual?” And that same message that I just shared, obviously it also translates to partner relationships: how can we bring out the best in each other and the best in the world by not having it be all about one or the other of us? How can we operate at this elevated level where we see so much potential to do great things in the world, and it doesn’t have to be about me, nor you, but it’s the merging of the strengths and the weaknesses that we each have, and being able to operate with those fully present. It’s like “Yeah, you’re not that great at that thing, so I’m gonna cover you here on that one”, and being totally open and aware, rather than… I think what happens in the corporate world and probably in our partner relationships is we’re trying to overcompensate for our weaknesses and it just makes everyone suffer in the end.

Jessica: Yes, absolutely. I love what you’re describing, and sometimes when I talk about what feels similar to what you’re describing it’s more of the win/win, it’s “How do we work together so that both of our visions are included and we feel aligned, at least in the motivation of what we’re creating together and we both feel like our needs are getting met?” Okay, let’s shift this more to relationships then. So you and all your expertise in wealth and what you do and coach in the world, where do you – because my immediate feeling when you’re talking about ‘we’ versus ‘me’ is when people feel somehow threatened. Or in intimacy a lot of times we love our spouse probably more than not our kids, but it’s the special kind of love that I think is unique and that really opens our heart, and I think it’s the place where we’re going to get the most fearful and scared, too. Money is one of those resources, if we just think of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, when we don’t have those basic needs met it’s easy to kind of get into more of that survival mode, and I’m just curious if you can speak to any of that.

Leisa: So what comes to mind with what you’re talking about and how it intersects with the work that I’m doing is very oriented around not feelings as if we have what we need in any given moment, and that once we go into that way of thinking it causes us to go into a mode of what I have labeled self-concern. When we’re in self-concern, we’re not able to obviously really understand, nor witness to, nor support the needs of other people, at least at the level that they’re hoping we can support them.

Jessica: Right.

Leisa: Stepping back, I worked in financial services for 23-24 years and I did a lot of different roles. Sometimes I was working directly with people, other times I was a little removed, like credit cards or things like that, but whenever I worked directly with people I would notice a lot of weird behavior in couples around money. Just watching people, for one, just go into the roles that they had adopted in their relationship, that probably came from their parents and all kinds of other stories that they picked up along the way, but I would watch people and sometimes it was the woman who made all the decisions, sometimes it was the man who made all the decisions. You know, just the control and all these different things that I would witness, but where I got really curious was when people didn’t treat each other very well when it came to money, that was the thing that stuck out, because I’ve always been an empath and when people are suffering, whether it’s the aggressor or the one who’s being attacked, I would feel it deeply and become really sensitive to it and it was hard for me to do my job because I was so focused on their feelings and not with the transaction, which is what I should be focused on. And I got really curious about why do we do these things, why do we treat someone that we’re in this long-term relationship with so badly when money comes up. It doesn’t happen all the time, of course, but it is very common and I wanted to study it and I wanted to understand what happens for people and why do we do these things.

That was in the beginning, and now over time it’s so funny, because I’ve really come to this place full circle to what I started to say about scarcity and about not feeling like you have your needs met, and honestly I think everything is somehow connected to that. Back to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, it’s like if you don’t have the feeling – whether it’s true or not true is actually irrelevant, I think – it’s more of if you don’t feel like you have what you need, then you’re likely to go into self-concern and immediately focus on your needs and discredit or discount other people’s needs, and that’s a tough thing to have happen in relationships.

Jessica: Yes. So do you help provide tips or guidance around helping people recognize maybe the self-concern, and what would you advise?

Leisa: So first off, I think the work that I do is pretty advanced, because it takes people being at a place in their life where they’re really ready to take full responsibility for themselves. You might be able to recognize this better than I do, because I’m focused a lot on the entrepreneurial experience.

When I first started out I wasn’t focused on any one individual, but over time I found that entrepreneurs were very attracted to the work that I do, because entrepreneurs typically are having to take a lot of responsibility for their business; it’s not going to happen unless they do that. So it’s so interesting, because I feel like I’m still learning a lot about relationships and how it plays into the work that I do. It’s not that I’m avoiding helping my clients in this area, but I could tell you that I feel like it’s almost easier to deal with a business and the business challenges and taking more responsibility for our business, than it is for our couple relationships. It’s almost like the next frontier.

I feel like, especially in long-term relationships, it’s really easy to just sort of get into the hamster wheel and just keep moving along, and it isn’t until something is totally falling apart that you even want to deal with it, because it’s kind of overwhelming for people.

Jessica: Well-said. I definitely agree with that. People, if you were to ask them to take a bird’s eye view and they were kind of evaluating “Could we be doing this better?” they’d probably say yes, but “Is it asking or begging for any attention?”, probably not, unless it’s super painful, and that’s usually where people get more motivated, if it’s painful.

Leisa: Yes. Sorry, I kind of wanted to explain that, because it prefaces the fact that I’m still learning about this stuff and it will continue to evolve, and it’s easier for me to help somebody with their business than it is with their relationship. However, that said, sometimes when I work with clients, the relationship is the elephant in the room and we can’t even get to the business until we deal with some really basic things at the relationship level.

For example, I had a client where there was that tension in the relationship that was so strong that every time he tried to focus on work, there was a problem in the relationship that would appear that would keep him from being able to be as effective as he wanted in his job. It was obvious that we needed to focus on that area first, and one of the things that I think I’ve learned in my own spiritual journey, in my own journey with my husband is that if I am not able to really see the world through his eyes from this place of compassion, then I’m not really seeing him.

So I think what I help people do is first of all realize that part of the reason their business isn’t thriving is because so much energy is being expanded towards the feelings of discontent with the relationship, and that when we focus on that more, then they’ll be freed up; and sure enough that happens, but most of the work is about rather than you pointing the finger at your partner for all the things they’re doing wrong, it’s time to turn that finger back at yourself, which is I’m guessing a lot of what you do to help your clients.

Jessica: It’s so beautiful, Leisa, how you’re saying “If I really truly can’t see my husband’s perspective and really understand in his world what that viewpoint looks like, even if I personally even don’t agree or have the same outlook, but if I can’t really connect with his outlook then I’m not really seeing him, I’m not really understanding him”, and I think that’s really important what you’re saying.

Leisa: I have – this isn’t in a partner relationship, but it really hits home and it was really fresh just this past week with one of my clients. She was working on a big deal and a person appeared in the deal that was literally bringing it to a screeching halt; it was a really big commission, it involved a lot of different people, and it just was a breakdown. She came to me very frustrated about this individual and didn’t know that that was going to be the thing that I grabbed on to, but she was like “He’s angry, I think he’s an alcoholic. He’s got all these problems, he leaves a wake wherever he goes”, you know, she was kind of giving me the list, and I was like “Oh wow, this is really cool, thank you so much for sharing how you feel about him. Are you willing to kind of go down this journey around this person? Because I think that this is going to change everything.”

And because I’ve had some pretty intense experiences around individuals, particularly that caused me to have to deal with forgiving people who had killed people that were close to me, which I think is one of the hardest, that’s one of the hardest places to forgive – I think that’s fair – and I’ve done it not just once but multiple times; I’ve unfortunately been in that position where I had to forgive people and I had to go through the process of “How do you forgive somebody for killing someone that you dearly love and care about?”, but in the course of that being able to be in a place of understanding where that person was coming from – even something as horrific as murdering someone else – taught me that we can feel compassion for anyone and everyone, no matter what they’ve done, no matter if they’re a terrorist or a murderer or whatever, that it is actually possible. That work allowed me to actually step into anyone’s shoes, and even though I don’t necessarily know their story, I can feel into what is coming up just by the way that the person is angry at them. I can use whatever the anger is that is appearing… Alcoholism – there’s a lot of things that cause that; obviously, we’re pretty unhappy typically if we’re drinking excessively, and especially if maybe that unhappiness is just from not being able to stop drinking. It’s not that hard to go into the horrific thing and start to feel compassion for someone who would be stuck in that situation.

So we did that work, and she came back to me a week later and the deal has completely transformed. She didn’t do anything different, she continued on her work, but all the change was she had a loving, open heart for this individual that she didn’t think was possible a few minutes before. Now she’s like “Every time I think of him, Leisa, I start crying.” I’m like “I get it. I totally get it, because that’s how I feel about these other people that I’ve had to learn how to forgive.” Does that help?

Leisa: Yes, it does help, and I just know from my own experience with what you’re describing for me when I am able to be compassionate or entertain someone’s perspective without – like, let’s just imagine that I keep my position; I’m just, for a moment, suspending whatever agenda I have, to entertain this other person’s perspective and to really have some empathy and understanding, something really transformational happens. I feel as though it allows me to see that worldview or that outlook, but it opens up something new that I guarantee I would not be able to get at, had I not been willing to just entertain and willing to explore. Again, I think people feel – I don’t know if you find this too – particularly in the couples I work with, it’s almost like somewhere along the line couples will believe that fi I really listen, it means I am agreeing, it means that I’m letting go of my position, it means that I’m condoning whatever they’re saying. Do you see any of that in your work?

Leisa: Definitely. There’s always that fear of condoning behavior when we feel compassion, or love, or open our heart to someone. But I think it was Jack Kornfield who I picked this up from, and he said when we’re forgiving, it doesn’t mean that we’re ever condoning, it means that we’re refusing to allow anyone to reside outside of our heart. And that’s it. So when we put all these other stories in there, that’s our story. We’re choosing to add those things to our story, but we can also see it another way, if we want.

Jessica: Yes. And there’s something for me that’s swimming around what you’re talking about. For me I talk a lot about power struggle. Do you feel like that plays a part in this? I feel like if we’re very held to our particular position and we have these stories about the other person and it’s kind of the ‘one up, one down’ struggle – there’s only one winner, and it can feel like there’s no ‘we’ available.

Leisa: Power struggles, yes. I’ve been in a relationship for 30 years, and I’m just thinking “Yeah, probably like in the past week”. You know, it’s really easy to get attached to our particular view of the world and the way that it operates. And what’s so funny about that is each and every one of us have a slightly different perceptive experience that we’re going through. So the minute we take on positions of any kind, we’re putting sticks in the ground that are eventually going to have to either be moved or taken out, or resisted, right? So we resist changing our position because we feel like that’s something that’s keeping us safe, maybe; you know, causing us to feel like we’ve got control of the world, because if we know this is true then it gives us comfort in our own kind of siloed way. And it’s natural, it happens to everyone, but when we notice that the only thing that results from our taking these positions ultimately is some degree of pain, then at least we don’t have to blame the other person when it happens. We can be like “Oh yeah, I did stake a position. Yes, I am actually causing this”, because even though they’re taking a different position and they’re just as strong, at every given moment we have the decision of how we’re going to look at the situation. We don’t know what other people are going to do.

My husband, he definitely – this is one of those things that I would say irritates him quite a lot, and the more irritated he gets, the more irritated I get that we’re not communicating, [laughs] and I’m like “Oh boy, let’s just change the subject because it’s not going anywhere.”

Jessica: Yes, yes. So bringing this back to money, it sounds like you’re really compassionate and understanding that getting into the self…

Leisa: Self-concern.

Jessica: Self-concern, yes, that that’s a real impulse, right? So what would you recommend? I know you’re saying some of it is pretty advanced, like with the people you work with. It sounds like just some awareness perhaps, the self-concern and the kind of sticks in the ground – I’m just curious, like if people are listening and they’re saying “Okay, I can find myself doing the self-concern and I can feel my attractedness to the ‘we’… What does that look like? How do I…?

Leisa: How do I change it?

Jessica: Yes, how do I get there?

Leisa: Yes, I think it’s really helpful to pay attention to where you feel like you don’t have your needs met. That’s going to be the biggest clue to your own self-understanding and then also the things that are probably triggering your relationships, because I guarantee you, the minute you identify where do you have strong feelings of scarcity in your life – and I’ll give you some more tangible examples – once you can see that pattern, then you start to catch the things that are happening. So I’m in the course of writing a book right now, and I’m going to finish up a kind of smaller eBook that gives sort of these seven stages of scarcity that we face, both as entrepreneurs and as human beings, and in the beginning it’s like you don’t believe that you can have what you want, that you don’t have the resources to create what it is you want. Then you move into ‘you don’t have enough time’, so scarcity of time to get the things done so that you can have what you want. And it kind of moves from there through these different stages – I’m trying to think about all of them – and they lead up to self-value, like you don’t feel that you’re good enough to have what you want, or that you actually can’t have what you want.

The other thing is like you believe that you have to cut corners in order to get what you want. What I’ve tried to do is make it more easy for people to identify the different types of scarcity that’s going on in their lives, so that they can become that they even have it, because nobody’s ever really tackled the topic like I’m tackling it. Because the more you can understand what’s going on for you, the less it’s going to cause you trouble. I guess that’s kind of where my work has evolved into – how can we help people become more aware of the deficiencies, and most of it is very hidden inside of us, but it comes out in our relationships.

For example, if you’re always fighting with your partner about how much money you spend, probably the good question to ask yourself is “What am I not getting? Like, I’m spending money in all these different ways, but what do I really want when I’m trying to spend that money? What is it I’m trying to get?” and that will help you to understand what is the thing that’s deficient. It might be one of the scarcities is “I don’t feel like I’m smart enough to get what I want.” Most people don’t deal with all seven of them, it might just be a few. Does that help?

Jessica: Yes. So in your work – and it sounds fantastic, I can’t wait to learn more – it sounds like you’re inviting people to have more awareness and really more specifically understanding some real core need that maybe some of the behavior is trying to accomplish or get at, and that if there is the recognition of the need, then perhaps the behavior could be a little more matched accordingly, or that there could be a little more advocacy that’s direct to the need?

Leisa: Right, because if you know something about yourself, typically you’re going to catch it. Or, at least you’re going to have humility about it. So when you start to engage in that fight and somebody tells you something like “Gosh, will you stop using that credit card as much as you use it?” and instead of being like “Well, how dare you challenge me? This is my money, I earned it etc.”, you’re going to say “Wow, look at that he/she is showing me that I’m doing a lot of stuff that I’m unconscious about and are just merely showing me that there’s some work that I have to do.” And all of a sudden it’s not really a fight, because you’re like “Ugh, at least I’m learning about myself versus just fighting with somebody about something I’m in resistance and denial about.” Because that’s why fights come; fights and arguments and disagreements are always coming from something that we’re in resistance to about ourselves, it’s not the other person.

Jessica: Which goes back to one of the things you said earlier around self-responsibility, that it is advanced work when there’s something that feels painful that a partner might be showing you or holding a mirror up…

Leisa: And I want to say this because I want to make sure everybody understands. When I say ‘advanced work’ I’m saying that not because you have to be special or unique to be able to do it, it’s more that it can be difficult, and it’s kind of giving yourself permission to be like “That’s hard, and that’s okay.” I never want to do something or tell somebody something that they’re going to end up giving themselves a hard time about. Like “Why don’t I do it better? Why don’t I do it differently?” Never is that a positive path, it’s more around respect for the fact that some of this stuff is really challenging, and if it’s hard for you then that’s understandable, and don’t ever give yourself a hard time because it’s hard.

Jessica: Yes, thank you for articulating that, I think it’s important, particularly with some of the things we’re talking about. I can feel the heart of it, it’s tremendously difficult, especially if you’re talking about an entrepreneur’s business, or a marriage, or a life partnership – these are some of our most precious, precious things in life, and the challenges that arise, it’s going to feel painful, especially when it has to do with things that we might be resistant to, or things that we could be growing in. Nobody said that growth is easy, but I think you and I both probably would agree that it’s so worth it.

Leisa: It is, and our partners… I mean, I know that there are plenty of situations where we just get fed up and we think, “Okay, I can’t continue this relationship, it’s too hard on me.” But having been in a relationship for so long and reaching those points and then coming out of them, I would say that these people that come into our lives are our very best teachers. It’s whether or not we’re ready to be their students…

Jessica: Precisely, yes…

Leisa: And my husband, he’s been so amazing because he doesn’t do any of this spiritual stuff that I do, yet he’s so amazing and so gifted, and I learn so much from him. He laughs sometimes, because he’s like “Yeah, she does all the work and I get all the benefits”, because I’m becoming a better person and he likes that.

Jessica: Nice…

Leisa: But you just have to laugh, because I think we both do see that we’re each other’s teachers, even when we love to not admit it.

Jessica: Yes, for sure. I can fall into that too, I’m sure my husband would, too. Alright, Leisa, I just feel compelled to ask one more question – is there anything else that you want to speak about in the ‘we-ness’, because I think that what you’re describing is really inspirational.

Leisa: What’s coming up with the ‘we’ – ‘we’ is basically synonymous for love, that’s all it is. It’s love in a different form, a word form, but the more that we can open ourselves up to love, the more the relationships that we have around us improve and grow and blossom in ways that we could never probably imagine possible. It’s like beyond our consciousness, that’s how powerful love is.

Jessica: Nice. I’m also getting ‘connection’ – it’s where we’re really connected, if you think… ‘We, two, and love’ it’s where I feel the most connected. I love it. Great, well how do people find you? How do people learn more about your work, Leisa?

Leisa: So a great way to learn more about me is I actually have two websites, but I think they will go to the same place: LeisaPeterson.com or WealthClinic.com. We’re in the course of expanding the work that I do and focusing on the books and different ways to help people.

On the WealthClinic site you’ll find meditations; there’s actually several around forgiveness, so that might be really appropriate now that we brought that up in this conversation. And also, watch out for this book, the way I’m wording it is The Seven Ways That We Sabotage Our Experiences As Entrepreneurs. That will be coming out very soon, and I just loved this opportunity to talk to you, Jessica.

Jessica: Yes, thank you so much for sharing your time and your wisdom. I know it’s incredibly valuable.

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Thank you so much for joining this episode today, episode 61 with Leisa Peterson. One of the takeaways I’m really resonating with as I’m closing this out is how I’m responsible for me. I talk about in my podcast you can’t control your partner, but really as she was talking about this ‘I’ and the ‘we’, more of the collaborative, connected love, compassion with another, and more of the ‘I’, the self-concern or the scarcity, that I’m responsible for the ‘I’. That’s the only place that I can really shift. I have to be willing, I have to be the driver to be willing to do the work to be in the ‘we’. So I’m responsible for the ‘I’, I get to manage the ‘I’ and the balance of that.

Again, I appreciate your listenership and if you have a question you would like me to answer in an upcoming podcast you can contact me on my website. My website again is DrJessicaHiggins.com, you can click on Contact and find the ways to reach me there. You can leave me a voicemail right from my website, you can call me or you can e-mail me. So I look forward to hearing from you and until next time, take great care.

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Shifting Criticism For Connected Communication

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Dr. Jessica Higgins ~ Relationship and Transformational Coaching