Podcast: Play in new window

Subscribe: RSS

In the spur of the moment, a simple argument can go out of hand if we focus on proving that we are right rather than seeking to understand our partner's emotional needs. We basically just listen so we can rebut. Whilst it does seem to be clever, it is not the same as understanding.

So, what can we do to change that? Shari Foos dives into what Relational Mindfulness is and how we can apply it to create meaningful connections in both romantic and non-romantic relationships. 

Shari Foos is a licensed marriage and family therapist and creator of The Narrative Method. She holds an MA in clinical psychology from Antioch University, Los Angeles, and a Master's in Science in Narrative Medicine from Columbia University. 

A sought-after expert on the subject of relationship and meaningful connection, Foos’ writing and commentary have appeared in a range of online and print publications including Real Simple, Huffington Post, Women’s Health, KBLA, Fatherly, LA Weekly, and Bustle.

In this Episode 

04:53 Shari explains what Relational Mindfulness means.

09:06 Steps that you can do to regulate your nervous system enough to suspend and to engage in this practice.

26:17 Shari elaborates on The Narrative Method.

41:16 How to connect with Shari.

Your Check List of Actions to Take

• Put yourself, beliefs, prejudices, and worries aside so you can be present for someone else. Instead of making assumptions, listen to their stories and empathize with them from their point of view. 
• Approach a conversation that has been a challenge in the past with an open heart. 
• Don’t beat yourself up. It’s hard for everybody.
• Try not to compare yourself to your goal because we all have such different emotional development paths.
• Start with a moment of quiet, and silent eye contact, and just ground yourself to each other. When you feel their soul and you feel their goodness, and you feel their small vulnerability just like your own, it's really hard not to love someone who's been real.
• Find a good therapist and coach to assist you with accessing these things.
• Be your own authority and try it out for yourself. Get outside of your comfort zone just to see what it feels like.
• Put yourself aside to really enter into a state of humility.
• Find a way to explain it, rather than to act it out.
• Separate yourself from what's happened to you in your life, in general, from what seems to be happening at this moment, this helps you stay connected to yourself so that you can communicate what you were intending to say.

Mentioned

On Becoming and Being a Mother by Shari Foos 

Connect with Shari Foos

Website: The Narrative Method

Facebook: facebook.com/thenarrativemethod 

Instagram: instagram.com/thenarrativemethod

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/thenarrativemethod

Twitter: twitter.com/NarrativeMethod

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

About Today's Show

Shari, thank you for joining us today.

Oh, it's great to be here.

Yes. And I know we're giggling a little bit because we just had a tech issue in trying to sync up here and I'm so glad that we're able to do this interview. I've been looking forward to this topic of relational mindfulness. Can you help people get to know what that means in the way that you're seeing it?

Of course. Well, relational mindfulness is one of the 12 core concepts of my work, which is called The Narrative Method. The definition is “the humanistic practice of compassionately relating to others with an open mind and mutual respect”. So essentially, by putting yourself aside, and your beliefs and your judgments and your worries, you can be present for someone else, to witness their story and be able to empathize with it from their perspective, as opposed to with the imposition of your assumptions and beliefs.

It's such a beautiful practice. And I also know, in intimate relationships, it can be easier said than done, and very challenging at times.

Well, look, everything's easier when it's not your partner or spouse. Because first of all, you know you're right and you keep trying to persuade them, and somehow, they don't necessarily agree with that. But especially in important relationships, where we do get tripped up either over our ego or our offense. Oftentimes, it's not even significantly expressed to the other person, so they may not ever seem to get it. So in order to be heard, to be truly heard, we just have to put aside our ego, which is not easy, but it's essential.

True, it's a really important principle! That when we think that we have it right, or we're anticipating, assuming, and expecting, that can actually be a barrier to understanding and a deeper knowing. It sounds as though you're saying, one of the best paths to being heard is to actually give before you seek to receive? Is that what I'm hearing?

It's amazing how there are certain things that we do with people we're comfortable with, that are positive things that we need to employ more, which is to approach a conversation that has been a challenge in the past or a conversation with a brand-new person with an open heart. Because if we listen to think about what our response is going to be, we might seem clever, but that's not the same as understanding. I haven't found a person who is a hermit yet, who can live without the connection that we need in our brains and our souls to thrive. So the sooner we give someone else the opportunity to be heard, the more willing they are to hear us, and the more likely we'll have a really good connection.

And as I'm listening to you, I can imagine that there are people that are like, “I get this intellectually, like I don't disagree in principle.” But actually, when it comes down to it, whether or not I'm feeling activated in my nervous system, or I'm having even previous pain and trauma get triggered; the intensity is so high. The stakes are high, like you said, with our most significant person. So being able to suspend our position to be so generous or so committed to the process. Because really, it's the process, and the end result is what we're really seeking, is to know the other more deeply, to be known more deeply, and then through that, what we can accomplish, rather than this kind of going back and forth. 

So for somebody listening to that might agree with you in principle, but when it actually comes down to the heat of the moment, what are you recommending for people to be able to regulate their nervous systems enough to suspend and to engage in this practice?

That's a great question. My first thought is, listen to yourself, don't beat yourself up; it's hard for everybody. And there are times when we're too activated to think well, and too activated to communicate well. That's okay. It's normal. If you find that happening, bring your level down a little bit to self-soothe. I like to do what we call hand-to-heart, in which you use your hand in two ways. It's the parent who soothes you, and from the inside, you feel soothed. So you have this capacity to very quickly bring yourself down to a calmer level. 

That said, it doesn't have to work today. If today doesn't feel right, let it go. This stuff is not easy for anybody. Just saying: do A, B, and C, ignores the fact that in order to get to A, you have to get to a point where you can be somewhat neutralized about this thing that has been aggravating you for the last 10 years. And that can take time. So it's not magic. And try not to measure yourself against your goal. Because we all have such unique trajectories of developing emotionally, and we all have baby parts. It's just the way it is.

So if I'm hearing you correctly, there's slowing down, and giving space and time, as well as this non-judgmental and compassionate stance towards the self, that this is challenging. While we can talk about it, and it sounds so beautiful, that it is difficult to access in the heat of the moment, and that we can be gentle and have some space. Then you're also inviting something really important, which is this semantic if our nervous system is feeling activated. You're giving us a simple recommendation with just this hand that can represent a calming or a soothing source, even if you're offering it to ourselves. Am I hearing that?

Absolutely. And you know, nobody, not one person out there, is not mean to themselves, even though that's a double or triple-negative. We are so hard on ourselves, and we all think that if people knew how screwed-up we really are… But everybody feels that way, so just knowing that you are not alone in the ping-pong that goes back and forth in your own head of self-criticism and flagellation and all that stuff. Just breathe, you're not alone. It's really hard to be a person in this world.

As you're speaking about this, it's giving me a sense of validation and almost a container. I don't know if you would agree that there's a holding. Like when you talk about parenting, and if a child is protesting and perhaps flailing and tantruming about whatever they want, which is legit, the feelings and the experience, and to hold safety. And also as a parent, believing in the greater good. That's like, “Oh, if I let you eat candy, and eat that whole bowl, you're going to feel like crap, and I know that. So I'm going to hold some safety. And while you might not like it, and I get that you don't like it, but there's a greater value that I'm in service of with you, and I'm holding that container.” 

Now, if we think about what we're talking about here in this conflict with a significant other, and really, really wanting to be heard. Like you're saying, there is a practice that's beneficial of being willing to suspend and give deep listening before we can maybe actually feel this deeper sense of feeling heard ourselves. So I'm almost getting this sense that there's a container and a belief in the process.

Absolutely. What we don't have are formulas for happiness. If you've come by one, let me borrow it, please. But when it comes to these deep and difficult feelings, one thing I noticed — and if anyone has ever held back their hand from pressing Send, and slept on it, it's that — when you're evoked, you're just not a dependable thinker; you're all emotional. And that happens sometimes. 

But it is surprising how quickly we can move from that state to a calmer state with perspective. And whether it means sleeping on it or giving it more time, you have that intention to get to a place of being able to give that space to someone else, and you'll know when you're there. It's just not something that you should pressure yourself with. 

That said, you do need to communicate with the other person, particularly if you've made this date to talk. So what you might say is, “I'm so sorry! I was looking forward to this, and I know you changed your schedule to be available. But right now I am feeling so distracted by my emotions, and I don't want to limit the potential of our communication by talking when I'm in this state. So please forgive me, can we reschedule?”

I think that's so important to set up, and the real agreement is around: “I'm in a good position, or I am available, and I can feel steady enough to participate.” Is there anything that you do or help people with that maybe haven't had…? Because as you talk about hesitating on pressing Send, I think that's such a great example to work with because I think we can feel that in our system. And we can probably feel the positive outcome of being able to get clear and get regulated and grounded before we send. 

In conflict, I can also recognize that it might be for some, including myself in my younger, younger years, that I didn't actually have a lot of experience where these conversations would be productive. That I maybe didn't trust my significant other, that even if I came with a level of equanimity, that he would respond intact or kindness or being willing, or that it's not going to go off track and escalate. So it can be hard for some to enter into this with such generosity or goodwill if we've had really bad experiences. Do you have anything that you want to comment on around that?

Well, a couple of things. First of all, if you don't feel safe, that's another reason. And you don't have to do it. You know, “I'm not really feeling safe right now, so can we do this another time?”

But let's just be honest about one thing. There can be such profound complications that you feel you need a therapist, but you need another person to hold both of you. Especially if you're the kind of person who really has a lot of introspective experience, and you're dealing with someone who's challenging that, who doesn't get that there are lots of intangible relational realities, and you're having to teach them that first. Then you're probably better off working with a therapist. But once you have developed some of these skills, with a therapist, or if both of you are already there, then just go for it. This is trial and error. 

Before the advent of psychotherapy, which was incredibly recent, they used to have these things called friends, and you would be able to share with a friend what you were going through. Now, friends are not always objective, and friends oftentimes want to give us advice. 

So as we make our way through the world of psychology — which started off with some great stuff and some mistakes, as far as we can see now, and it's continuing to grow — now that we have science, now that we can go into an fMRI machine and see two people in conversations whose brains are lit up in the same place, we know that something happens with eye contact. We know that something happens when you open your heart, and you are not thinking or projecting negativity. 

So with that, there are so many ways when people are both in agreement about getting to this intimate and vulnerable place. And one thing that works so well is just to start with a moment of quiet and silent eye contact, and just ground yourself to each other. It's almost impossible to stare at someone's eyes when they're not saying anything. Because it's those things they say when you feel their soul, and you feel their goodness, and you feel their small vulnerability just like your own. It's really hard not to love someone who's been real.

Even as you describe this, it takes me out of my head and into my heart. When we think about conflict, often the tendency is to, as you mentioned, prepare for the debate, and then all the context and all the other things that get involved in the interactions. It sounds like what you're describing is a real centering into an intention, that's pivoting away from the opposing positions and getting into contact with: “Oh, I love you and you love me, and we care about each other and this relationship and our bond.” When we can have access and a route to that, it feels like it changes the constitution of what's about to happen regardless.

And also with the awareness that the things that push your buttons are the things that push our buttons. 

When you can understand that the way your partner says or does X, Y, or Z reminds you of that thing that your father did to you all the time, but this is not your father. Then when you explain it in a way in which you're coming from your heart and say, “When you talk to me in that tone of voice, I regress to a place of being a little girl, and it makes me feel angry. And that's why I've been jumping on you over that issue.” Then the other person could say, “Oh, gosh, first of all, I didn't intend it that way. But second of all, I had no idea.” Because I love you, and I know you have that sensitivity, I'm going to articulate that, if I think I have spoken in that way, and apologize. And eventually, we develop better habits.

Yes. And I think you're giving us insight into the possibility of what happens when we can understand those deeper layers. So I want to echo that a really good therapist and coach can really assist with accessing these things when we're maybe not fully in contact with them. Or perhaps any introspective work, like you're talking about. Or emotional development through the way of contemplation, journaling, etc. 

All these things that help us access and say, “Okay, that's the first layer. Let me work with what else that reminds me of, or what that evokes in me and brings up for me.” And then being willing to reveal that, it's very different from what we tend to do. Because when we see or feel an ouch, we want to point to it, and it's usually the language of You. Then that can set us off on to: criticism, defensiveness, or kind of blame-blame, attack, or find the bad guy. 

So I just want to slow down, because I want to say that, I know that it might be awkward or feel silly to invite, with your significant other, this moment of breathing that you're referencing, before entering into a difficult conversation. It might feel silly, but it's that vulnerability that I think you're asking people to slow down. 

Again, I can't overstate that if it makes you feel like this is stupid, then don't do it. There's no expert, including either one of us or the biggest genius in the world, that can be an expert on you. So we need to take ownership, not just of our feelings and past experiences that cause us to act and feel the way we do, but also where we are right now in our development. If you think maybe I'll never like that, so don't do it. There's not just one way. 

Yes, okay. If I can share some thoughts that are coming up as I'm listening to you, it's like: be your own authority and try it out for yourself. Like, I would encourage people to get outside of their comfort zone just to see what it feels like. And also, perhaps what you're saying, too, is there are many expressions. You're suggesting perhaps sitting down and taking a breath and having some eye contact. There's some real science around that; the nonverbal, the facial expressions, and how that's activating our attachment system. I mean, that's onboard all the time anyway, but really intentionally giving some softness there to support that safety. 

Like you're saying, there might be other ways to access that. I know in the beginning, my husband and I, we would take walks, get into our body. We were not necessarily facing each other, so it doesn't feel so confrontational. So I love that you're inviting people to really try things on and see what feels good for them, and be the authority. And I just want to add that I want to urge people to try something, even if it's uncomfortable because this is how we learn.

And as you said that, I was so in agreement. I think that's true. But I want to say something about walking. Because if you're familiar with Eye Movement Desensitization Regulation and Reprocessing (EMDR), it's kind of fascinating. Why is it that when you're driving in a car, you can have the most beautiful, deep, never before had a conversation with someone? I believe it's two factors. And it's the same with walking. A: your eyes are constantly being stimulated, which gives you new ideas, new ideas, new ideas, and new perspectives. But also, without having that eye contact, you have a little bit of almost emotional privacy. And I think that those are two amazing ways, especially for people who feel fearful when they're looking in someone's eyes, or who don't quite feel ready. 

But I'm going to backtrack and completely agree with you. Push yourself just one notch to do something that resonates as a good idea, even though it's a little scary.

And then, let's pick up on what you were really referencing around the story, and this might fit with your methodology of The Narrative Method. Does this fit with The Narrative Method? 

Yes. The Narrative Method is part of The Human Connection Movement, and we create programs, products, and experiences that bring people together through sharing their stories. So for me, this started when I studied Narrative Medicine about 10 years ago at Columbia University in New York. It is so based on social justice, and the most pointed questions, like who has the right to tell someone's story? It was conceived as a way to teach empathy to doctors so that they could improve their bedside manner, which in turn improves patients maintaining their protocols and feeling better, and all that good stuff. 

So The Narrative Method is based on stories for a couple of reasons. Here’s the first reason.

It's a way to say to yourself: “This is who I am. This is how I feel. This is what happened to me.” That feeling of being seen and heard, shockingly, is everything. You don't have to fix my problem. But if you listen to me, I feel better, I feel rejuvenated, and I can go back to the drawing board myself. 

So everything we do is based on stories; everyone has stories. And when it comes to sharing a story that's evoked by a particular prompt I may give you, it doesn't have to be the best example. But it's an opportunity for you to say, why did that story come to mind, what is it about that story that is on the tip of my tongue somehow, and what does it represent? 

So there is so much for us, in addition to what we gain through opening up with others, to understand, just by virtue of the way we tell our story. And if we think that from the time it happened, we may have changed our perspective. So before when you were very generously talking about taking care of a child, you know, when the child falls, some parents will say you're okay. Well, really? I don't know. I mean, just because I'm not going to die doesn't mean I'm okay. So when we deny someone's feelings, whether it's something that seems to be small or something important like I feel that you don't listen to me, we're creating a rupture in the connection, and it has to be rebuilt.

Surely, as I'm listening to you, I'm having a connection. It feels really important, and I want to check it out with you, which is, possibly this opportunity to tell a story to the person that we love is one of the reasons why it's so compelling to want to express all the content. Like we're talking about how we get into these [who's right] and the ego. So I'm wondering if there's a big part of this that's like, there's a story in which I'm experiencing, and I really want to feel seen and heard in the way that you're describing. Yet, perhaps the way we're telling the story is creating this oppositional or unsafe communication, and that there's a way that we can tell the story that honors our experience and also invites our partner to come closer.

Totally. Well, part of the idea of putting yourself aside is to really enter into a state of humility, where even though it's your story, you don't know everything. It's as simple as “I” statements. “You did this, and then I felt like that.” Nope. “I felt like X, Y, or Z when you said such and such.” It's so, so important to be able to understand that the words and the nonverbal communication that we're doing is impacting a person's ability and desire to even hear us. So if I were to say to you, “Good! Very good, Jessica. Thank you so much for that thought.” It's like, huh? It's condescending. 

So if I am in a place where I'm looking down on you, it's going to come out through my tone and my choice of words. But if I'm in a place of openness to you, I would more likely respond with: “Wow that is so good, thank you for that.” It's the difference between the person wanting to be with you more or less. 

So the people who are the hungriest and the loneliest, often don't get what they need because of the way they approach other people. They're approaching other people sort of acting out what happened in the past, which is understandable, but it's not conscious. We have to be conscious that what has happened in the past that brought us to this moment was not caused by the person in front of us, probably, unless that's the person we're talking to. So we still have to find a way to explain it, rather than to act it out.

Yes. It also reminds me of something similar, but not quite in the way that you're describing it, that “hurt people hurt.” And it seems like you have such an ability to help people craft, in an authentic way, their story, that allows for this type of connection. Am I hearing that?

Absolutely. So among the other things we focus on, one of the other core concepts is called Sounds and Signals, and that's communication. That is communication, not just verbal, but nonverbal. And when you understand the impact of the way you hold your body, the way you're standing, and how that impacts other people's interest in connecting with you, or helping you with what you're talking about, or ever seeing you again, there's really very little to be lost when you come from a place of open-mindedness and love. The worst that can happen is that it's not reciprocated, and well, that person couldn't do that. 

But we should take a moment also before we take insult by someone else's inability. It's so easy to be offended when somebody acts out that stuff that has nothing to do with us. They need to learn the words, and we need to learn how to separate ourselves from what's coming at us. So that skill of separating yourself from what's happened to you in your life, in general, and from what seems to be happening at this moment, helps you stay connected to yourself so that you can communicate what you were intending to say.

There's so much to this, my mind is just like [makes a whirring sound]. But what I want to say is, it feels as though you're inviting people to tell a story again, back to that vulnerability that is allowing their partner to see more fully. When I think about those first layers of conversation, especially as it relates to conflict, it feels like the agenda or the intention is like, “I want your attention. That you participated and you're willing to take ownership and you're willing to look at. That I matter, and I'm afraid you don't care. That I'm not good enough.” It's like we have to get through some preliminary things before I'm willing to tell you the deeper stories.

You know what, it's the guidelines. So we have an agreement before we talk. It may be saying, “This is where we are physically, no technology. We have this amount of time. And if either of us says something that upsets the other, we promise to share that.” 

I mean, if you want to — since we do have a very benign, but real-life example of a little glitch we had before we started — we could do a demonstration that would be easy to follow since it's simple. So I'll start. I just want to say that before we got going, we had trouble with the mic, and we had to get off of the Zoom and try another way. And finally, we got it working. So I was just curious since we hadn't met before if that process made you feel uncomfortable or anxious in any way?

Yes, I did feel anxious as the host really wanted to provide a smooth experience for guests. In looking at the things that I could see, I couldn't identify the issue. So I definitely felt some concern around, “Oh, no, I really want this to happen.” I also want you to feel some sense of like, I got you. So yeah, I did feel that underneath some of the other things of just saying hello and trusting that we would get there.

Yes. Well, for me, I instantly felt your competence. And having done a lot of Zooms, this has happened to me before. That said, it's much easier when it's you, not me. So I didn't feel worried because I felt we would work it out, and you did feel competent. 

But the reason I just thought this would be a good example is it's extremely benign. But even in the case of something that sort of I think we both knew; we really didn't have to talk about. But something happens when you go deeper into any, even the slightest either misunderstanding or something that's not said, which is that you can become closer than you ever could have been prior to that because you're revealing your vulnerability in trying to work it out.

So if I'm hearing you, there's a suggestion or an invitation that some of these things that we might move on from, and perhaps not give a lot of time and space for, that if we take a moment to unpack it, it gives us the opportunity of knowing and perhaps creating some level of intimacy that we wouldn't have otherwise had.

And it's also a good practice for things that are not so easy. 

Yes, I was going to say. It's like building these muscles, right? 

It really is. Nobody taught us any of this stuff in school. Has anyone ever had a body language class? And it is believed that 80 to 90% of all communication is nonverbal. So what's that?

Yes. Well, I know our time is limited. And I want to mention one other thing, because I'm just feeling it so viscerally, and I'm curious what your thoughts would be. So I remember coming into some exposure with psychodrama, I'm not sure if you're familiar. For people listening who are not familiar, essentially there's a facilitator and the person that's going to essentially create a mini-drama, who is choosing a story from their life or their experience, and they're going to act it out. There are props or there are people that can assist. And you really get into this body, gesture, signals, and you're telling the story through this drama. There's a lot more around it, but that's it in a nutshell. 

So as we're talking, it feels as though and — and there's just such brilliance in this if this is true — that what you're inviting people to do is almost acknowledge that there's a story here. You know, if I think about myself sharing a drama, and there are people watching, and I'm just pointing fingers, and I'm like, “This is bad, and that's bad. They're gonna know nothing about my story.” But if I go in, and how vulnerable it is to be exposed, to be witnessed, to be seen, and it's real! But if I can have some courage and safety, and a container to be willing to step into that, what gets created out of that being able to share a story that is authentic, but that allows me to feel seen, is so powerful.

It's so powerful! Whether you're doing it through some sort of dramatic therapy or you're having a conversation, the idea of telling a story, but not automatically. Because there are certain stories we remember, and we think we're feeling into it; this is where the laugh is, etc. But if you can really get into it, you start to see how your ideas about that story may change. 

So when you're a little kid and your parents say, “No, you can't have the bowl of candy.” Mommy's mean. But when you're a parent, all that vanishes, and you realize, “Oh, wow. Thankfully, she took care of me.” With more complex stories, things also change tremendously. And we can forget that so many of the stories of our lives were projected into us, and assigned and told to us, through other people's lenses. Either they wanted us to believe that, or that's the way they saw it. 

And being conscious of the stories. Oh, my goodness! Well, there is so much richness here, and I can tell how much depth there is that we're not even getting to. So for people that are listening, that are interested in getting to know more of your work or what you're up to, what would you suggest people start with?

I would say go to the website: TheNarrativeMethod.org, and you will get a really good sense of what we've been talking about. We work with businesses, universities, organizations. And we have three free Zoom-ins every week for anybody; people come from all over, you can sign up online. It is an incredible, fun, and fascinating way to share stories with people. And we also do one writing group. So regardless of whether you prefer to share stories verbally or in the written form, all of this is free for you. Again, it's at TheNarrativeMethod.org. 

And we also have a couple of card decks, because you don't need a license to use your humanity. With these cards, you can create your own groups like that. You could do it online or in person, and you could do it with one other person. Or you can use them for writing prompts.

So these are venues to engage with, and perhaps tools, to assist in practice with. Am I hearing you?

Exactly. By the way tonight, from 5:00 to 6:15 pm Pacific is the TNM Human Zoom-in. Please come, it's free. It's totally cool. You will have a good time, and you will experience, hopefully, the best part of yourself.

Beautiful. On the website, is there some information around what to expect or what to do or all that kind of stuff that people are looking for? 

Absolutely.

Awesome! Well, great. I will have these links as well as your social media links, so people can stay in touch with you and get the latest info from you and The Narrative Method, on today's show notes. Thank you so much for spending your time with us.

Well, I am so happy to have connected with you. You are really spectacular, and I hope we can meet again.

Likewise, thank you!

Signing Off

If you have a topic you would like me to discuss, please contact me by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here. 

Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship. 

Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here. 

Thank you!  

*With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon, if you purchase the book from this link.