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Deception in relationships is a common issue that can strain trust and intimacy, leaving partners feeling confused and disconnected. Whether it's through subtle nonverbal cues or drastic changes in communication style, lies—both big and small—can significantly impact the fabric of any relationship. Identifying lies and understanding their underlying causes are crucial steps to fostering a more honest and open partnership. How do you address this deeply ingrained issue? It all starts with awareness and communication.

In this episode, we delve into the nuances of recognizing deception, from interpreting nonverbal cues such as tone of voice and fidgeting to understanding the reasons behind why people lie. We'll explore strategies for responding to dishonesty in a non-accusatory way and the importance of self-reflection and open dialogue. By examining case studies, behavioral tips, and psychological insights, listeners will better navigate the complexities of honesty in relationships, paving the way for deeper intimacy and trust.

Andrea Beach is a highly acclaimed life and business coach and a leading authority on human behavior. She combines the best techniques from NLP and relational psychology with her “self-made success” strategies as a business leader and entrepreneur to deliver incredible results for both companies and individuals alike. Beach has created dozens of successful programs for relationship transformation.

In this episode

6:58 Andrea’s journey: From serial entrepreneurship to balanced life harmony.

12:05 Unveiling the complexity of lies: From business tactics to intimate relationships.

19:34 Navigating expectations and honesty in relationships.

35:01 Recognizing deception: Signs and strategies for authentic communication.

42:56 Strategies for constructive communication.

Your Check List of Actions to Take

• Reflect on your own behaviors and motivations for lying; recognize patterns to understand underlying issues better.
• Establish regular check-ins using frameworks like BFP (business, family, personal) to discuss well-being and concerns openly.
• When suspecting deception, express curiosity rather than accusation to foster a safe environment for honesty.
• Give your partner space to speak without interruption and listen with the intention to understand, not just to respond.
• Use soft, indirect questions to address suspicions and open up tougher conversations without direct confrontation.
• Regularly revisit and discuss mutual expectations to ensure they are aligned and adaptable to change.
• Adapt to your partner's communication style using techniques like matching tones and question inflections to make conversations smoother.
• Consider taking classes or seeking personalized help from experts to enhance your skills in spotting deception and improving relational dynamics.

Mentioned

ERP 433: The Power Of Radical Honest On Connection — An Interview with Dr. Brad Blanton

Relationship Map To Happy, Lasting Love

Shifting Criticism For Connected Communication

Connect with Andrea Beach

Websites: andreabeach.me

Facebook: facebook.com/TheAndreaBeach

YouTube: youtube.com/@The_Andrea_Beach

Instagram: instagram.com/the_andrea_beach

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/andrea-beach

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

About Today's Show

Andrea, thank you for being here and joining us today.

It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I know we were just chatting, and I was like, let's push record! Because you were on a roll sharing some of your background, and I would love for people to get a sense of just your expertise and where you're coming from, and your perspective. It sounds like a beautiful blend between entrepreneurship, business, as well as the personal development and psychology and human behavior. We're going to be focusing on lies and how that fits in relationship, and just what you want people to know around that. I guess I would love to just allow you to share a little bit about you and help people get to know you here.

Sure. Well, thanks again, for having me. It's probably important to note that I've been a serial entrepreneur, but I sure didn't have it all figured out in the early days. I made way more mistakes than I made good decisions. But as I mentioned, I've owned over 21 companies. I would say about half of those were miserable failures or learning experiences. There was some mediocre ones in there, and then a few big wins. But once you've learned how to do something consistently, like, one time anybody can get lucky. But three times or more, you know what you're doing. 

But what I found was that I was so head down focused on growing my career, my businesses, what I had on that side of life, financial freedom, all the things, that I neglected myself; I neglected my health. I didn't neglect my relationship, especially with my children. But I wasn't always my best at it. Because I felt like it was this term work-life balance, which I actually totally disagree with. I think it's more about work harmony or life harmony. I've built my life, such that my work is a passion, and therefore it's part of it. Just like my children and everyone else in my life that I love is a passion and part of it. So there is not this teeter-totter, one or the other, and that was a framework that I had to shatter in my head. 

I'm a hypnotherapist and trained in NLP. I geek out over what makes people tick and all the human behavior things. But what I found out is that when you have couples, for example, that are trying to improve intimacy in the relationship, or somebody who might be single and seeking that love of their life, if they're super successful in business, they tend to have maybe some bad habits—and that was me—that I had to reframe and unlearn in order to have that healthy, balanced relationship structure in my life. But I've also learned that when couples work together, a lot of small businesses work with their spouse or their brother-in-law or whatever, there's a different dynamic. I would come in to work with couples on love life breakthrough, and they would say, we're just working 80 hours a week and we're stressed out and we don't have the money. So I realized I actually needed to solve those problems first. 

So that's why we created freedom in business. It was to get you from what I call one side of the river to the other. Because you're on this side, where you're stressed out, your relationship is suffering, you don't have enough time for self-care. You're not doing the things that you know you need to do, because you're so hair on fire trying to deal with your business problems. If we can figure out a way to get the stepping stones across the river, to where everything is technicolor, and you actually have more bandwidth, and the business is running without you. So now you can focus on your marriage, you can focus on your health, you can focus on that relationship with maybe your older children. The emptiness thing is real in how it affects relationships. So I was wrong, is I guess the short answer. I thought I needed to start off on the relationship side, but then I realized I really needed to back it up and help small business owners—not everybody owns a business, but small business owners—get to that level of freedom, and then they could open up and work on their relationships. So that was the background I was sharing. 

Thank you, and I'm sure there's people listening that are resonating. I will say, even for myself and my industry, as a psychologist and relationship coach, there is an aspect, given that I have my own business. But I had very little to no training in business and just all the different things that are required, and it can feel very overwhelming, and just how to negotiate that with a level of buoyancy that gives this technicolor. I think it takes some experience and scaffolding, as you're talking about having these stepping stones. So I love that you're able to really have that wraparound perspective. Because I think we do tend to compartmentalize and really keep one aspect or domain, like work. Oh, it's all work, and then we don't really necessarily think about the relating. I will agree, and I've worked with many high C-level executives. Naturally, they're attempting to bring all their amazing skill set to the relationship, and it's a totally different dynamic, both the couple dynamic versus business and what hierarchy might exist in that world, as well as the skill sets. We typically don't need so much of the intellect or the analyzing; we need more of the cultivating that emotional empathy. How did you start to give some focus to lies and what emerged there?

Well, it was two-fold in the business world. When I started out, it was high technology. We started in the mobile technology space and custom software in 2004, so this was before iPhone. What I found is, in that very cutthroat, highly aggressive world, people would lie to gain positioning or get ahead or take advantage of a small business they were looking to acquire or whatever. And because of my behavioral background, which till then I had always treated as a hobby. That was my passion, and then I have my work or my career. I actually didn't blend the two, until this started to resonate with me that wait a minute, they're lying. They're just boldface lying, I can tell because I know from my training. But I was going: Hey, nobody else can see this. So I saw the value on that side for business. But then as I was working more with couples and doing some of the relationship stuff, there are plenty of times when lies come between couples that love each other very, very much, and actually both have intentionality around building and fostering intimacy and a great relationship. So then you scratch it out and go: Well, then why are they lying, what's going on? So the fascination was on both sides, both the business and career side, as well as your personal relationships. Why people that are closest to you and say they love and trust you, why would they lie to you?

Such an intriguing topic. I realize not everybody defines lies similarly. Some people will look at hiding or omitting, especially when there's agreements. If we're doing due diligence, and it's a business thing, and it is full disclosure, omitting is obviously not fair game. But in relationship, we have also other agreements. But what's your stance on lying and how you perhaps define it? 

The question I get asked a lot about this is white lies, or what's the difference between a white lie and a black lie? Well, at the very fundamental level, a black lie is meant to deceive the other person. Usually, for that person, the person that's lying, it's for their own personal gain, even at the cost or expense of the person that they're lying to. A white lie is almost the exact opposite. We're actually lying to please the other person, sometimes at our own expense, which always comes back and bites you. But it's also, in a lot of ways, to foster the relationship or stabilize or try to grow the relationship with the person that you're lying to. So it's almost exactly the opposite of a black lie. 

But both are lies, and I would argue that you might get the little wins. When your wife says, do I look good in this dress, or do I still look as beautiful today as I did 30 years ago? And the guy is like, warning, warning! I better lie because I know I'm going to be in trouble. He's trying to foster intimacy with his wife and make her feel good. But I would argue that over time, it will erode trust, and that there's a way to have those kinds of communications where you can accomplish the same goal; you still make your wife feel beautiful and loved and wanted and all those things, without just lying. So that's the skill that people, I think, need to foster and develop if they really want to use white lies for intimacy. Because doing it the wrong way has the same effect as a black lie.

Okay, first of all, I'm like, can we come up with other terms? I don't know what the history of the white and the black is. But this political justice, multicultural person in me is like: Oh, that sounds so racist! I know you're not intending, and it's language we all use. I'm just like, what if it's other language? We'll have to kind of brainstorm that. 

But when you're looking at the intent, that when the short-term is to cultivate intimacy and connection and harmony in that interaction, there's a long-term effect. I so agree with you that it requires a pulling back, and it almost adds a wedge, if you will, to the exchange. Perhaps it's not necessary, where you're saying, maybe there's other ways in which we can convey how the person we find attractive or our person that we love and really adore, and just the beauty and the development of that beauty. Versus, like: Oh, you're exactly the same as you were when you were 20. I guess I'm wondering what your perspective is. So just to back up, do you feel like lies encompass all of it, the dishonesty? 

Yes, a lie is a lie, absolutely. 

So omitting is a lie too?

Yeah, an unknown omission. Now, you could then get into a deeper discussion about, well, did they know it subconsciously or were they consciously omitting it? There's a lot of gray area there. But I think for integrity's sake, a lie is a lie. If you know you're lying, whether it's for good or bad intentions, it is a lie. The truth is, we all lie. We've learned this from childhood, sadly. Your parents come running in and say, did you spill that all over the floor? Your first reaction is to say: No, it wasn't me. 

Whether it's actually true, and we could argue what true means or not, if it's realistic, or if it's a persona that we want others to believe about us. Maybe we're aspiring to be that, therefore we lie. That fake it till you make it, that's a lie. But you can also say, well, that's law of attraction. We're trying to be positive and imagine ourselves in that space. Yes, and that's all wonderful. By the way, I agree with all of that. But there's a difference in portending like you are, versus pretending to be the way you want to be. If someone flat out asks you and you lie, you're still lying. So there's a little gray area, but that's the two main reasons, and that comes from childhood. 

Oh, I'm so grateful you're mentioning childhood and one's environment, because I think that actually is really important. But before I ask that, I want to just say, it seems as though, as far as languaging, it could be a dishonest lie or a pleasing lie, that could be the white lie.

Yeah, deceptive or complimentary lie. We could come up with better terms, I'm sure. 

No, I mean, I'm not trying to attack the language. 

Yeah, I know. It is older language, that's right.

Okay, so I'm grateful that you mentioned just the environment, I wanted to come back to that. Because I actually have had clients that have been together for 30 years, raised their children, they are very happy together. I'm thinking of one client in particular, and she was like: Oh yeah, my mother, her family growing up, we would bury the body in the background and never speak of it again. It's just this cultural, family thing, where I really prefer to not talk about things. Or I do want you to lie to me and tell me I look good when I ask you or solicit. Do you think it takes a little bit of intentionality to say, here's how we're going to be, and here's the value and the benefit of that. Because it's almost like short-term versus long-term. If we're going to lie, that might feel good in the moment. But what that's actually, as you were saying, contributing to long-term. Do you think it's helpful for people to name this, that let's try to have an environment where we use other language? What do you think?

I think we're really talking about expectations. The expectations that we bring to the relationship based on not only our upbringing and the frameworks that our parents, grandparents, and our cultural society used. If we're even going to go global, it's very different from one country or one community to another, on how things were framed out for us in that regard. There are some cultures that are incredibly blunt; there's no filter, and they will tell you exactly how they feel. Then in another culture, that's unbelievably rude. So it's more than just the family you grew up with, which is obviously hugely impactful. It's also where you grew up, what generation you grew up in. It's all those things, that's programming. Then it's life experience. 

Now you have two beautiful souls who are just trying to figure out life and be the best versions of themselves, and they come together with a set of expectations. Good, bad. Right, wrong. I don't even think those words belong in this conversation. I think it's more: Here was my family dynamic, right or wrong, that's what I'm used to. We all scream at each other and then sit down to dinner like nothing happened. They invariably will marry the person who gave everybody the silent treatment, and like you said, bury the body and never talk about it again. I don't know why, but I think it's part of putting us together for our spiritual growth and journey that we marry our opposite on things like that. But I do think it's amazingly impactful when you're dating, and even before you decide to get married and settle down, that you have those conversations about expectations on what it is that you're looking for, what the communication style is, what your fighting style is. 

Again, you'll have one person or one partner that wants to hash it all out and drag that to the ground and beat it to death. And you have someone else who says: I need to pull away and go think for a little bit, I need to process. I don't know why those people always end up getting married, but they do. So there's this dynamic for learning how to fight and learning how to communicate, and I think this is part of that discussion. 

But it's not just at the beginning. It's not just when you're deciding to get married, where somebody says: Oh, please lie to me, because I need the reassurance and my insecurities can't handle the truth or whatever. That's vulnerable, just even admitting that. That should be like a dang note to the other partner, that I need to do more to make them feel comfortable in their own skin. That's a whole nother part of it. But then let's say you've been married now for 10 years or 20 years, maybe now you're going through a transition where you have children, or now your children are leaving the house. You need to check in again, like: Hey, you know we've had those discussions before about, do we lie to each other, do we lie by omission to make each other feel better? Like, are we still on that same page, or how are we feeling about some of the stuff? So it's not a one-and-done, I think it's an ongoing evolutionary conversation?

Absolutely, I'm grateful you said that. Because it's both recognizing what are the expectations that we're coming into relationship based on what we've lived and what we've known. Also bringing some awareness around, we may operate very differently, and how do we want to have an agreement? Perhaps those agreements are not set in stone, that they're going to evolve, and how are we doing with this? I mean, I'll just say, I have a huge value of honesty and transparency. Just what you're saying around how to be honest, it's not an easy thing to be asked a question, and want to affirm my husband, if he's asking about his looks or something, and how to affirm him if he's seeking affirmation, without lying. If he's like, does this look good, or how about that? I might say, well, and how to say that to acknowledge his concern, but without just flat out lying. That's not an easy thing. 

Well, there is a framework for that. So for anybody listening that's like, well, how do I do it without busting his bubble or hurting her feelings or whatever? I think of it like an Oreo cookie, which I happen to love Oreo cookies. But anyway, so you've got that beginning, middle, and end. So the beginning is you affirm them with a compliment. Maybe to your husband, you would say: You know I think you're the most handsome man on the planet, I can never get enough you. Don't know that that outfit makes you look as good as you actually look. It might actually not make you look as handsome or as sophisticated as I think you want to look for this event you're going to. But if you wear it, I'm sure you'll still be the best looking guy in the place. So you are kind of sandwiching in, I don't want to say criticism, but that truth, in between some very affirmative compliments. So that they realize you are attracted to them, you just don't like that shirt. 

Yes, and I do think this is probably harder to unwind if people have a pattern of doing the white lying to one another. As you're talking, it's reminding me of the very early days when my husband and I were dating. This is probably like 2006, and I think maybe even a couple years after that. So we were in grad school, and my husband was using clippers. He would do the whole buzz clip, and it would be like at the setting of two or something, I think. His brother came to visit and he was like, do you like his hair? He wasn't even in the room, and I was like, I think he can do better. It was just honest. But it wasn't like, I don't like your hair. It was like, I do find him very attractive, and I think he could actually have a haircut that actually is more flattering to him. Actually, my husband heard about that, and he teased me about it for years.

Then when you actually say: Oh my gosh, you look so handsome! Then he goes, okay, that's true.

Yeah. So he grew up in the Midwest, I think white lying is very appropriate and expected and commonplace. I remember, we were going out, this was around the same timeframe. I had these white pants, or maybe it was a different pair of pants. But I was asking him, what do you think? He's like, do you want to know the honest answer? Because with guys, that's a whole classic joke, the setup of do I look fat? So they're like, danger, danger! So I gave him full permission to be honest, and I would much rather hear the honest. So gratefully, you're giving us some template here. If we can really be truthful about our affirmation, or what we really can acknowledge that's positive, and then be able to frame the feedback, if it's being solicited.

That's being solicited. But you're exactly right, what happens when somebody hasn't directly asked you? There is this level of sophistication and intimacy, where in order to build that intimacy, you're not going to lie. Instead, you may come forward, without any solicitation, and say: Sweetheart, I've been feeling this way. I mean, I know you didn't ask what's going on or my feelings, but I just feel like I need to share this with you. Lately, I've been feeling a little insecure or whatever. 

But that's very different than when somebody asks you a question, do you lie or not? Practicing your level of intimacy by getting in front of it and pre-empting it by just vocalizing how you feel. Then you can even say, do I have your permission to be completely vulnerable? Because I really don't want to hurt your feelings, and I'm scared that if I'm just completely, totally honest, that I might offend you. Now you've asked their permission to be open and accepting, and that's a beautiful thing. So then you say what you say, and now they can't get upset because they promised you it was okay. So that's a little bit more sophisticated level. But I encourage anybody that's gotten into this bad habit of white lying to their spouse to try that.

Yes, it's almost the willingness to speak that uncomfortable truth, or what feels even shameful or unlovable or super vulnerable. When you're talking about the unsolicited and taking that emotional risk or that relational risk, it sounds like it's on the part of the person who's sharing. Versus, like: Oh, I have some feedback for you. I know you're not asking me, but let me tell you something constructive. That typically tends to be unwelcomed, unless somebody is really wanting feedback. I mean, there are times where it might be like: Hey, honey, I've noticed I have some thoughts, is that something you're wanting to hear or interested in hearing about that? There's still an agreement around, do you want to hear this? 

I think that's so important, what you're describing, to help create a climate. Because it's so aspirational to say, we're going to be honest and open and transparent. Yet, when there's some discontent, so many people struggle with: Well, I don't want to bring it up when things are going really well, because I don't want to dampen the mood. And I don't want to bring it up when things aren't going well, because things are already hard, we don't want to add another thing. So people struggle. Yet, what you're saying is, if we can really come to the table when things are a little more neutral or even positive, that sharing, there's a real trust and regard that builds more trust when we can share unsolicited, something that might be hard to speak about.

Yeah, but the discipline to do that and find that sweet spot between: I don't want to mess up things when they're great. Versus: Uh-oh, we're struggling, so I really don't want to bring it up. That sweet spot in the middle tends to be neutral. People say, now I'm in neutral, now I've got to go focus on my career, or I'm going to focus on what's going on with my dad. They don't really think about it. So there's a practice that I use in my relationship, and that I've worked with hundreds of couples on. It's called BFP. It stands for Business, Family, Personal. Once a week, preferably at the same time, like when you're on your way to church or your Saturday morning coffee on the back patio. Whenever you guys normally have a rhythm of spending time together, where you're not freaked out and stressed out about work or whatever. Take that moment and super quick, Business, Family, Personal (BFP). Like, what are your numbers, 1 to 10? How are you feeling about your business, if you own a business? Or your career, what's going on with your job? Anything in that world. Somebody could say, I'm about a 5. Then family, and you can define family any way you want. We define family as not just us and the kids, we also define it as extended family. Sometimes it'll extend to our really good friends who we consider family as well. Then personal is like, my health, my weight, my goals, my bucket list, my aspirations, whatever. 

So let's say, BFP—Business: 5, Family: 9, Personal: 4. You're like, whoa, what's going on? Well, business is a 5 because of that deal I'm waiting on. Oh yeah, that's right. So now you're checking in on that part of their world? Family is a 9, why isn't it a 10? That's my favorite question: what would make it a 10 or why isn't it a 10? People are reticent to give a 1 or a 10, they just don't like that. Because they feel like there's always something you can improve. But if you ask them, they go: No, I'm totally happy. Okay, so it's really a 10 in their mind. But if it's 9, it's like: No, I'm totally happy, except I'm a little bit worried about our oldest son or whatever. Then personal, if they're coming in at a 4, you're like: Whoa, how can I help you, how can I support you? I just need the discipline to get up and go to the gym every day, and I just can't get my butt out of bed. So now that spouse can be more supportive. 

The reason this BFP works is because now you're not waiting for that sweet spot to open up for those conversations. Because let's face it, most people just aren't going to do it. So how do you do it in a way to where this is just like brushing our teeth, it's just something we do. We go put gas in the car, we do our BFP. Call it whatever you want, that's just what we call it. But that's a way to go round-robin around somebody's high-level of their life, and check in in a way that feels very non-threatening. 

Yes, it's systematized, there's accountability if you're pairing it with something that is going to be done on a frequent basis, and to give that check-in and give room for reflection. Really understanding, what am I enjoying, what am I not enjoying, and kind of have those touch points. That opens the conversation that perhaps, to your point, and I have found this to be very true, that when one grew up in a family where things weren't talked about, that when there's a little bit of a space or a structure that gives welcoming. Sure, the partner that's a little bit more inquisitive can ask questions to get curious to help that partner share. Not that it's their responsibility, but could make it feel a little more inviting. But if if there's something that's already built-in, I think that does perhaps give a little more opportunity for one that might struggle to just find that space to raise their hand and say: Hey, I got a thing, when everything in their family told them that was not a good thing to do. 

So I'll give one other relational tip, and this is just behavioral. So if you have a very loquacious, let's say, wife, who wants to just talk and talk and talk and ask and ask and ask, and her husband is the one-word answer guy. Business, Family, Personal: 5, 7, 10. Okay, why did you say that? That's good. If you have that person, and it goes both ways, but in this relationship, it's the man who's that way. 

There's a little hypnosis trick or a little communication trick. So when you say what's going on with work, what's going on with business? Eh, same old, same old. If you say, same old, same old? And you say it with a question inflection at the end, in a genuine tone of curiosity, and you tilt your head, and you just sit and wait. It might be uncomfortable for a second or two. But then he's going to go: Well, you know, Tom is still doing this, and Joe is still doing that, and I still don't have enough time in my day to do that. If you really want to peel back those layers of the onion, you could say: You don't have time to do that, what does that mean for your day? Is that stressful to you? Oh yeah, it's stressful, because whatever. So the thing you do is, it's called mirroring. You just simply repeat the last thing they said as a question mark, and then be quiet. They will feel that tension, that pressure to explain. That's how you get people that aren't necessarily going to really open up, to open up.

Yes, thank you for just that suggestion that gives some example and strategy to how to approach these places that we might just fall very quickly into habit. I remember coming across something, and this may fit in the heterosexual example you're bringing up here. That stereotypically, grossly stereotyping, men are more physically ready. They tend to be socialized to play more sports or bond through activity and physicality, where with women, there's a little bit more experience in verbalizing. So there is a lot there, but just to have a little bit more room. I remember the analogy of emptying the cup or cycling, and the person's experience, giving a little bit more room and space to circle around and start emptying or coming up. So I think what you're giving is a really great suggestion to give support for that. Because I have a lot of questions, so I definitely ask. But I have found if I really subtly get into my body and just feel and give space and room and short questions, my husband will say things that I don't think he really was thinking about talking about. So it can be really special.

Well, you just nailed it about giving space and giving room. Because this works beautifully by itself. But when you do it with a real intentionality to just listen, to truly listen, and to give so much space. That's why Saturday morning coffee or something like that, or if you know you have a 35-minute drive, that's a great time. Another psychological hack, which I'm sure you know is, walking side-by-side or driving side-by-side, people are eyes forward. They will open up, it's like a confessional booth or whatever. So if they're not looking right at you, they're a lot more open to things. So if it's on a drive somewhere, and you've got the time, instead of being like: Okay, BFP, you're a 9 and 7. Okay, great. Next, what do you want to have for lunch? No, just live in it for a minute. 

If your partner isn't the one that opens up, and you hear what they have to say, and then you just sit for a minute, huh! And then you're quiet. They may keep talking. Or you repeat it, like I said, you mirror what they said and then unpack more. Then you just live in it for a minute, and give that space and room. So kudos to you for not only doing that, but leading the way for others to do that. But I would say it's more rare in our fast-paced ADHD society. 

Oh, it's priceless. Just how quickly our phones are right by us and intruding. So to really have that space where somebody is attending, not just short little bursts, but real quality, I think it's very special. When somebody holds space for me, and I feel that receiving with my husband or someone else, it's like: Ah, thank you! I don't think we're in the habit of doing that. 

Okay, Andrea, I realize we're talking a lot about openness and transparency, and we're here to talk about lies. So tell us a little bit about what you want to support people, as far as recognizing. Because people have an internal radar sometimes of like, whether or not it's micro-facial expressions or tone. Help us with what's happening there, what are you helping people recognize as far as lies? Then what to do with that, if it seems like it's coming up in relationship?

So there are some interesting ways to identify if somebody is lying. I want to set the table first by saying, one of these as a standalone is not the definitive silver bullet that someone is lying. But it's a cluster of these behaviors that will confirm when someone is lying. So I'll give some examples. Blink rate. So the average person blinks 16 times per minute. But the problem is, if they're blinking fast, they're typically in their head, thinking about what it is that they want to say next. If they're completely fascinated and totally locked in, they're trying to learn something or they're being very open for you, they will blink less, because they're actually trying to take in all the information. It's a subtle one. But if somebody is blinking a lot, maybe they have allergies, maybe their eyes are just bothering them. So you can't be like: Oh, he was blinking fast, so he lied. That's not true, or it couldn't necessarily be true just on one thing. 

Another one, as you mentioned, these micro-facial expressions. People should trust their gut a lot more, especially when it's someone you know. You look at your child or you look at your co-worker or your spouse, and you're like: Yeah, that was off. I don't know what about that was weird or off, but something was going on there. Trust that, that's another one. Tone is another one. If somebody gets high pitched and they start talking quickly because they're being very defensive, careful. Fidgeting is another one. Somebody in that situation should be pretty calm and cool, and they're tapping their foot or they're doing something with their hands, or they're fidgeting unnecessarily. That alone, maybe they have to use the bathroom, or maybe they're anxious about something that they have to do when they leave you. But if you say, in the context of what this conversation is and where we are, you should not be that nervous, or you should not be fidgeting. 

Then there are a few telltales. So we use this if we're doing things like, I don't know, hostage negotiation, or you're doing something like high stakes business dealings. These have to do with averting your eyes, not looking at the person, that's obvious. But also, people will cover their mouth. So you see this a lot in politics. They are literally trying to hold in the information. Another thing you'll see is sucking in the lips, it either happens one way or the other. Like, somebody will ask them a question, and they'll suck in their lips. Like, I've got to make sure not to say the wrong thing here. That's one. Or they'll say something and then they'll suck in their lips. That is a really good indicator that somebody is outwardly trying to deceive. That's really interesting when you have the sucking in the lips or things like that, because that's something people don't normally do. So it's an easy one to watch for. 

Then there's some more sophisticated ones. There's physiology that shows that when people are lying and purposefully lying, their nose, their fingertips, and their ears will start to itch. The reason why is because you go into fight or flight, so all the blood rushes to your vital organs, which gives that tingling sensation in your extremities. So if you see people are doing like this or whatever, messing with their ears, it's probably because they're deceiving. But that's a little bit more nuanced.

Sure. I've heard clients talk about an experience or an interaction with their significant other that's uncharacteristic, to your point, around what you know about somebody. So if one typically offers a lot of information in detail, and then they're really short-answered, or vice versa.

Yeah, that's a major one, especially in relationships. Because if you ask somebody: Hey, did you take the last cookie? And they're like, no, and they walk out of the room, they're probably telling the truth. But if they go, take the last cookie, I can't believe you're accusing me of that! I'm the one that made the cookies. If I wanted a cookie, I'd make a cookie. I can't believe you're accusing me. I'm not even hungry, what are you talking about? Whoa, whoa, something's going on! That's a little odd. It's way too much information, and it might be too detailed, to your point. 

Okay. So what if one is suspect or is getting the cues that their person is lying, what do you recommend? 

It depends on how heated it is in that moment, and back to your conversation we had earlier. Things are really great, so I don't want to blow it. Or things aren't great, so I don't want to actually make it worse. Depends on where you are on that spectrum when you catch your partner in a lie. But I would recommend one of two things. If you're in a pretty neutral or decent situation, and they lie to you, and you're like: Dude, I know you're lying. Like, if you know, there's one thing that works really well. It might take a little practice or discipline, but you just look at your partner dead in the eye, not with an accusatory look, you just look him dead in the eye. You tilt your head to the side like a Cocker Spaniel, and you just look at them, like, really? But it's more like, I’m curious that you just lied to me. You're saying that all through your facial expression, not a single word. It might take a moment to practice that one, but it's super effective. Because then they'll be like, well, it's just because, and then they'll sometimes spill it. 

If things are a little more contentious, I say don't do it in the moment. I'd say take note of it, walk away, then think to yourself. This requires a little work on your part to say, why in the world would my spouse just lie to me about that? Maybe it's because this. Maybe it's because that. Oh, I bet I know why, it's because last time we talked about that, I freaked out. So it requires a little self-reflection and maybe a little vulnerability on our part, to be honest about why would my partner lie to me about a cookie; that doesn't make any sense. 

It could be something like: Oh, did you find so and so's wife attractive? First of all, don't ask those questions, but whatever. Did you find so and so's wife attractive? He's like, are you kidding me? I think she's butt ugly. I can't believe you even asked. Oh whoa, that means he probably found her attractive. But the reason why he's responding that way, and you leave and think, why did he just react that way? Oh, it's because every time, he gets in trouble. That's on me. 

So if you have that discipline to do that self-reflection as to why your partner might have lied to you about it, and maybe you've come up with it could be this or it could be that, I'm not even really sure. When it's a better situation, maybe you're driving down the road somewhere and you say, do I make you feel this way? I want you to be honest with me, babe. Is there a time when I've done this, and then you feel trapped? I'm just trying to figure it out. Then if he's like, what, what are you talking about? Then maybe that wasn't it, and you go to your second suspect reason of why you think. You just start asking the questions, because it is an opportunity to foster better intimacy and communication. Because there is a reason they lied to you. Maybe it's to avoid getting in trouble. Maybe it's because they are trying to uphold that image of who they want you to think they are. 

They do that often with how many drinks they've had. How long they stayed at work versus stopping somewhere else. The number one is shopping habits, men and women; they are not always honest about what they spend their money on with shopping habits. Then it's sex. How many orgasms? Did you even have an orgasm? What are your fantasies? They're not going to tell you their fantasies if they think it's going to burst that image of you that you really want them to have of you. So sometimes not in the moment, but having those conversations indirectly, about the reasons you suspect they probably lied to you, may unearth those underlying things. Then if you have a good enough relationship, you can say: Well, the reason why I was asking is because I feel like you were lying the other day about this, and I figured the only reason you would lie to me is because of something I've done to you that would make you lie. I'm so sorry if I made you feel that way. Then let them be like, oh no, and it'll come out. 

Well, this harkens back to something I was thinking about when we first started talking in the beginning of the episode, and you were saying, if we're caring a lot about how people perceive us, and how to say that maybe differently, that there could be an acknowledgment. I have a friend, she's super keen on her words, and does believe a little more into what we're speaking has an impact and maybe some of the law of attraction stuff. But she will say: Up until now, I have been this way, and I'm really intending, or what I'm really working on is… And how that fits with what I'm hearing you say is, when we come back to relationship, up until now, I'm not sure if I've really been sending welcoming cues or been safe for you to be fully open about who you might be attracted to and might have been harsh or reactive.

That's an NLP trick that your friend uses. NLP, which is Neuro Linguistic Programming, is obviously a version of hypnosis, it's highly effective. And what's great about it is, it not only helps you take responsibility for your own actions and behaviors, but it also puts a marker in time to your partner that says: Up till now, maybe this was the way it was, but that doesn't mean it has to be going forward. It's a beautiful technique.

Great, so we could do that if we notice we're doing the people-pleasing, or we're wanting to perhaps even self-promote in a way that's not true or is a lie. That we could say: Well, up until now it's been this way, and I'm really working on… Then relationally, we can say: Okay, up until now we've maybe operated in this way, or we've had this dynamic where I've been a little reactive, and I can appreciate that it doesn't feel very safe for you to reveal what's true for you around feeling attracted to someone else. Can we work on that? Can we create a different environment around that? 

Yeah, can we start over? 

Yes. Then I'm also aware, I know we're winding down here, there might be other times where it's progressed to a level, and maybe the lies are more frequent or more severe, as far as affairs, betrayals, these types of things. Do you want to say anything about that? 

Yeah, they do compound. It's just like anything else, any other behavior that we've all heard about, from shoplifting, which then eventually can lead to more egregious behavior too. You mentioned cheating, and what do you count as a cheating checkmark? Some people say, I walked through the store and I found that woman attractive, was I cheating? Well, did you speak to her in a flirtatious way, was that cheating? Well, if I wasn't physical, was that cheating? So everybody, first of all, has to define that for themselves. It's their own moral compass, and it's also their agreement with their spouse on what they both consider cheating. 

It's not that you can't come back from it, because you absolutely can. I've seen really white chasms where you thought there's no chance, after all that they've both done to each other, and they are able to heal and forgive and come back. So it's possible. But it makes it much more difficult, and it requires both parties to be very honest and take responsibility for their own behavior, and also then communicate that in a way that's not accusatory or critical. That it's more about: when you do that I feel, or that makes me, or this comes up for me, or whatever. As opposed to: you, you, you. There's ways to reframe every question, every accusation, every label that you put on somebody. 

So for somebody that is right now currently in a relationship, very comfortable with the little white lies, I would say you have to go first. Your partner wasn't listening to this podcast. So you have to go first, you have to be the one that gets a little bit raw and vulnerable. When you use those phrases, like: Hey, babe, I want to tell you something, but I'm kind of scared. I'm kind of nervous about what your reaction is going to be, because I don't want you to be upset with me. Your partner is going to be like: No, you're fine, what? They've now given you forgiveness and permission to start setting that table. When you inoculate against that bad reaction up front, and they've now granted you permission, you've made a few inches of progress into that vulnerability. You lead the way, they'll start reciprocating. 

Yes. Andrea, I would imagine you would agree that we start also building some muscle around being able to step into this space that feels uncertain and uncomfortable, and what's on the other side of that. That's what we're in service of.

You can practice on low stakes settings. You're at the coffee shop, and you run into somebody or you talk to somebody behind the counter. It's a low stakes interaction. For whatever reason, something comes up and you think: Oh, I should lie. For example, if somebody says, how are you today, are you having a great day? And you're not, you feel terrible or you're upset about something, whatever. You could say, today is not my best day, I'm feeling a little raw, I'm feeling a little vulnerable. I'm trying to be in a great mood, but I haven't gotten there yet. But I appreciate your smile. They're like, what? Nobody ever actually answers me. If you go: I'm great! I'm living the dream, baby. No, you're not. You're lying, and you're making it a practice to lie. So you can build that muscle in low stakes environments, and then it gives you more confidence with your spouse. 

Thank you. I love all the examples, and it really touches on I think people's concern that they're going to be like a Debbie Downer. Yet, there's a way to still keep it positive and be real, and we can play with this and we can build more repertoire. So how would you like to encourage people that want to learn more? What would you invite people to connect with you?

Yeah, so we have several classes. I actually have an entire masterclass on how to spot a liar, which is a lot of fun. Then usually, people go from that to advanced negotiation tactics. Because they realize now that I know people are lying, what do I do about it? So those two are really fun. Those are on LifeUnleashed.online. If you want to give people on the podcast a discount, I'd be happy to give you 30% off. So it's just Andrea30, and it'll give you 30% off whatever you put in as a promo code. But also, I would start watching for some of these clues. Like, look at videos on your social feeds, people that you interact with. Start building the muscle of noticing, and then figuring out some of the ways that we've talked about here today that you can start practicing on. So that's probably the best way. Then, anybody that wants to reach out that wants more personalized help, I'm happy to do that as well. 

How would people find you and what you're offering more personally. Is that on your website?

You can go to AndreaBeach.me, and there's a little form you can fill out, and it actually goes to me. You can go to LifeUnleashed.online, and you can request information of it specifically about that. Then I'm very active on all my social feeds. So if you want to go, it's @The_Andrea_Beach. If people want to go find me there, just DM me. It's going to be me, I'll be the one responding. 

Oh, wonderful. I'll make sure to have the links to your social, your website, as well as the masterclasses, on today's show notes. Thank you so much for being with us and all that you've shared.

Thank you for having me. It was really fun.

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