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Are you feeling stuck or unfulfilled in your life or relationship? Do you find yourself trapped in a cycle of boredom and longing for something more? It's a common struggle that many of us face, but the good news is that change and growth are possible. The key lies in embracing the unknown, staying curious, and seeking new experiences to reignite the spark both within yourself and with your partner. 

In this episode, we delve into the transformative power of curiosity and exploration, especially during life's unexpected challenges. From taking up new hobbies like tennis and dance to reframing our perspective on life's curveballs, our conversation offers practical insights to help you shift your state of being and rediscover a sense of joy and fulfillment. By reassessing happiness and goals, adopting a growth mindset, and nurturing intimacy and communication, we explore how to navigate the complexities of life and love, ultimately fostering a deeper connection within and with those around us.

Monica Berg is the author of Rethink Love, Fear is Not an Option, and The Gift of Being Different children’s book, as well as the co-host of the popular Spiritually Hungry podcast. She’s been called “The Marie Kondo of the Soul,” showing us how tidying up our inner mess can help us find the joy we’ve been seeking.

In this episode

00:04 Exploring the topic of boredom in relationships, especially in long-term ones where routines and habits often develop.

02:51 Overcoming boredom in relationships: Embracing creativity and growth.

09:14 The need for curiosity and engagement in exploring new interests to overcome feelings of boredom and routine.

24:10 Transforming fear and rigidity into opportunity and joy.

27:26 The importance of acknowledging and processing negative emotions rather than bypassing them.

Your Check List of Actions to Take

• Explore new hobbies: Try activities like tennis, dance, or biking to add fun and novelty to your relationship.
• Continuously seek new experiences to combat boredom and keep your relationship lively.
• Reassess your goals and happiness at different life stages for ongoing fulfillment.
• Adopt a growth mindset and view challenges and the unknown as opportunities for growth.
• Acknowledge and explore negative emotions rather than bypassing them.
• Regularly reflect on your emotions and experiences to understand yourself and your relationship better.
• Avoid people-pleasing and maintain your integrity to foster personal and relational growth.
• Incorporate small new routines and experiences to keep daily life and relationships exciting.

Mentioned

The Gift of Being Different (On Being) (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Fear Is Not An Option (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Rethink Love: 3 Steps to Being the One, Attracting the One, and Becoming One (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Maybe You Should Talk To Someone: A Therapist, HER Therapist, and Our Lives Revealed (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence (*Amazon affiliate link) (book)

ERP 305: The Surprising & Powerful Benefits of Learning to Tolerate Discomfort — An Interview with Dr. Anna Lembke

Connect with Monica Berg

Websites: rethinklife.today | spirituallyhungrypodcast.com

Facebook: facebook.com/monicaberg74 | facebook.com/SpirituallyHungryPodcast

YouTube: youtube.com/channel/UCe3q8OFWS2o9zy_PZsBDUtw

Instagram: instagram.com/monicarberg74 | instagram.com/spirituallyhungry

Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spiritually-hungry/id1517646639

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

About Today's Show

Monica, thank you for being with us today.

Thanks for having me.

Yes, and I am interested in hearing all that you have to share on this topic of boredom. I don't think I've really ever done an episode on it, and yet it does occur, especially in long-lasting relationship where habits and routines tend to take form. Especially, as humans, we like to automate to be more efficient. But then, we don't want to automate our relationship. 

Just for people who are getting to know you here, who maybe don't know you, what would you like to share, and also how this topic became of interest for you?

Well, I'm really passionate about helping people navigate relationships, and really rethink them. I have a book called Rethink Love, and I've done a lot of research—worked with thousands of couples, been to over 500 weddings, officiated some of them with my husband. I think that there are a lot of tips and tools and things that can be reframed and understood in a different way, so people can have the relationship that they ideally want. To break through the illusions of the fairy tales and to shatter all of the things that we think a relationship will bring us, and to really understand what a healthy relationship is and how to cultivate it. So that really inspires me. 

Because when I was working with people, I found that there are two main things that kept coming up as a theme. It didn't matter how old they were, if they were men or women, what culture, none of it mattered. It was fear—fear of the unknown, so I wrote a book about fear also—and relationships. So relationships can either be the thing that light us up and make us the happiest, and at one point they do. Then eventually, if you're not paying attention, or you aren't actively working on it, or you don't have the information you need to navigate successfully, then they're the thing that causes you the most pain. 

So I just thought, well, this doesn't have to be so hard, and if I can help anybody get to that easier and quicker, then I'm super excited to do that. So I found different ways to do it. I can talk about relationships in any category. But I found that often people get bored. They feel like they've either outgrown the partner or they chose the wrong partner, or that the grass is greener on the other side. Especially with social media today, especially with all the options, all the choices, quick fixes, fast changes, you kind of want that excitement. 

So yeah, I'm super excited to talk about this and anything else you want to.

Well, I'm grateful that you're coming from a vantage point where this has been a focus of yours around relationship, and then more specifically around boredom, that it is a theme. I think it does relate to perhaps our expectations or our even imagined sense of things. I think this does relate to fairytales or myths or things that we have notions about around relationship and what it asks of us. If we expect happy relationship to just operate on its own, that we're kind of experiencing it not passively, but maybe that it's got a life of its own, and really, it does ask a lot of us. So I think in some ways, you're saying boredom is perhaps an opportunity to look at self. I wish I remembered, I don't know if it was in a college class or a workshop, that somebody had to equated boredom, and I feel like it had something to do with creativity. But it's almost like untapped creativity, or it's actually an indicator. It kind of feels similar to what you're describing, that perhaps there's a lot here that one isn't really giving attention to around themselves. Is that right?

Absolutely. I have four children, and when they were much younger, I remember for a while, “I'm bored” started to be around the house. I said, this is a bad word in our house, so you are not allowed to use this word. In fact, if you're bored, I'm not going to help you find something to do. There's dirt outside, there's sand, you go figure it out. I don't care, dig something, find a worm. I am not going to help you with this. Because I just thought wow, it's such a limited expectation of: serve me, provide for me, entertain me. I recognized that with children and with my children, and then they never used the word again. In fact, nobody ever, ever uses the word. 

I think it's the same in relationships. When we say we're bored, we really are looking at lack in the relationship. I rely heavily on Kabbalistic teachings, and Kabbalists have known this for a long time. 

And when you challenge yourself—and I'll give you some tools of how to get out of the state of boredom—then it's like an ejection seat into an elevated consciousness, it's an ejection seat into having new experiences in life that are more joyful and fulfilling. There's a real purpose in not allowing yourself to be in that space with any emotion, especially the negative ones, like boredom, sadness, anger. Those are all telling something that you need to pay attention to. They're there to wake you up and say: Oh, why am I feeling like this? Something needs to shift, and I need to course-correct.

Yes, it's almost as if boredom is a side effect of this seeking comfort on a perpetual or frequent basis. It is a human tendency, so I think we're all wired to seek that comfort. Yet, if we're not pairing that with the growth, or tolerating some of the discomfort. I don't know if you ever read Dopamine Nation, it's a neuropsychologist, I had her on the show years ago, I'll make sure to put the link on today's episode show notes. But she was really talking about this even addictive cycle of seeking the dopamine hit, and really, it asks our system to counteract that. So it actually on a longer-term has a negative impact when we seek those pleasure hits. This, I think, is similar with boredom, if we're always looking for that entertainment, and that more happening to me.

Provide for me, entertain me.

Then we're not actually building and tolerating some of the discomfort that actually longer term gives us the things that we want—the bigger expansion, the positive feel.

Absolutely. So I would suggest the first thing, if anybody finds themselves in this state that we're talking about, no shame, no guilt. It's okay to be in a rut, we all get there. But I would really encourage you to look at your day, your weeks, your months, and ask yourself, when was the last time I went out of my comfort zone where I did something to see a new experience, or I was curious about trying something new? Even a different restaurant or a new food, or different kinds of tastes that you're not used to. Anything that just gets you out of the routine and the humdrum. And of course, with relationships, see how you can do that. Not just romantic relationships, any relationship that matters to you, like with your children. Make it a thing where every Tuesday, you discover something new, you try something new. My youngest child and I, we saw something on Instagram last night where you put toothpaste over a raw egg that's still in the shell, and then you cover it for 24 hours. Then the next day, when you peel it, you soak it in water, it's like gummy. I'm like, this can't be real, and it might not be. But my point is, it's that kind of thing. That's the energy you want to inject into each day. So like, we're looking forward to doing that when she gets home from school today. 

I think especially in relationships, my husband and I, when our second child was born, he was born with down syndrome, and we found out a few hours after he was born. After the shock and the anxiety and all of the emotions that come with that—and this is related, but it's another theme—but we needed to have some laughter and lightness in the relationship. It was such a heavy time. I thought it would be fun to learn new things together. We took tennis lessons. We took dance lessons. We laughed so much. We made fun of each other. We went for bike rides. We ended up exhausting ourselves because we did something new every single day for a month. But it was fun, and it was different, and again, it got us out of a state. So boredom is a state, you want to find ways to change your state. There's many, many ways to do that, you just have to be open to it. Again, the first one is being curious and looking and seeking for new experiences.

I wonder, do you think it's implied? I mean, what you're describing, there's a sense of agency and empowerment that you're fostering, both for yourself and your marriage, and also with your children, to have a sense of what would I find interesting, or what would I find curious, and to be in the engagement of exploring and discovering. Do you find some people struggle with even feeling that agency internally?

I think if you've been in this state for a very long time, and we're calling it boredom, but it's really, I think, bigger than that, where you've kind of just settled, wherever you find yourself in life, at whatever age. Let's say for instance, a person has gone through a lot of the stages that one would expect to go through. Again, I think a lot of focus is really on the first 40 years of one's life. People don't really talk about what's after, which I think is a big problem, because there's so much to look forward to at every single stage of your life. It doesn't end in your 40s or 50s. People think, oh, midlife and then it's going downhill. I absolutely don't agree. But I think the energy and the focus in which people talk about their lives or pursue their lives is really about: I went to school, I went to university. If you did that, you found, hopefully, your dream job, where you're going to live. Maybe you have a home, you bought a home. You have a family, children, etc. Then it's kind of like, okay, I'm going to wake up and do the same thing over again, because I've attained all these things that I wanted. Now what? Then you find yourself not very fulfilled, but you think this is just how life is supposed to be. 

I am suggesting, and it's never too late, but that you have to stop and say: am I happy, what am I looking forward to, what is the emphasis or the goal of my day? It's not just about the things you're going to do. It's more about being. It's more about the state you want to live in. It's more about cultivating joy and happiness. That's only through exploration. By nature, we are seekers, so that should never stop. But unfortunately, for most people it does. So I think that it's something that you can grow. I think that if it's been dormant for a very long time, you don't feel like it, so you're just going to go through the same thing. You actually don't even think that you have the energy to do it, or that it would be fun, or you have the desire anymore, and you start to tell yourself a whole story. Just change the narrative.

I love that. There's a couple of thoughts that I'm having. One of which is just that this creativity, and how to access it, you're saying even play. As you had this life circumstance with your second child and just what that entailed, and how to pivot towards meeting your child in the condition and just being open. There's all the emotions that might be, but also to have some of that levity and the play, and just what you were able to also pair with that. Because that's also true, and the living, and you're describing a sense of essence and vitality in life that is nurtured through discovery, through exploration and curiosity and play. Is that right? 

Yeah, everything's a choice. I could have chosen in that moment that there wouldn't be much joy in our lives, that our relationship would be all about responsibility. I could have reacted to the fear of not knowing, at that time, how to raise a child with a disability. I could have. There were so many other narratives. I chose one that was growth mindset oriented, and I understood that part of growth mindset is you need to change how you view things, especially the things that are most challenging. I understood that you need to create different experiences outside the only thing that you see in front of you. That's the quote you said at the beginning about the removal of boredom. You are a co-creator in life, you are the creator of your life, and there is a lot of power in that, there is a lot of joy in that, there's a sense of accomplishment. We are meant to live our lives like that every single day. 

It's so empowering. I'm just feeling, even in subtle reframes of a situation, or the questions we might ask or the inner narrative around: Ah, why did this happened? It reminds me of the book of, I don't know if you've read, Lori Gottlieb's, Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and there's this chapter around: I'm in Holland, I wasn't supposed to be in Holland. Just for people who don't know, it's just like, what we are aiming for in the life circumstances might end up being vastly different. Like, I was going to Italy, and we're in Holland, and how we relate to that. You're saying there's so much space here, that if we can get into the mindset of: what can I learn here, what is the growth, what is the ability to be with this in a different way that maybe I haven't seen that I want to cultivate? I have that agency. Again, to your earlier point about sometimes we get into this prescriptive way of being around the milestones of living. But that is perhaps happening to me, versus how am I doing this, and there is so much power in a simple way of reframing the situation or asking the question. 

So if you know, for instance, that your child is supposed to be born typical, and then that doesn't happen, if I stayed in: Oh my God, this thing I knew was supposed to happen didn't happen, now I need to be miserable and upset for the rest of my life, or however you want to fill in the blanks. That's one way to be. But the truth is, we never know. We never know anything. You can wake up in the morning and decide: I'm going to go in the morning and have a cup of coffee, and then after that, I'm going to walk to the gym, and then after that, you have your whole thing. Then you wake up, and your husband or whoever had the last bit of coffee, and there's none left in the house. Then you're going to walk outside, but instead it starts raining. So you try to take a taxi, if you live in New York City like me. Then because it's raining, all New Yorkers are taking taxis. So now you're 15 minutes late to your workout class. Now, if you're invested in “things have to be exactly as I want them to be,” you will be miserable every day of your life. I'm suggesting this surrender to “I don't know anything.” I have goals. I have desires. There's so much I think I know, why don't we take this invitation to find things that we don't know. Be curious, explore, discover, not only places and people, but new things about yourself and how you can elevate your consciousness and change the way you view things.

Earlier this week, a client was stating a story, I don't know if it was some type of parable of some sort. I think it had to do with race horsing, I actually don't remember even the client's circumstances. But it was essentially, the wise man was saying, this horse won the race, and he was like: I don't know, it could be good or it could be bad. I don't know if it's good or bad. Then this progression of life events, that the horse was actually stolen, and then all these different things that happened. Just that perhaps we get into this routine of judging things good or bad, which keep us in a particular place, versus being into the unknown, being into the question, and being in the co-creative space around: Okay, not what I was imagining or not what I was expecting, or this is a pivot, and there's still a lot of life and choice here.

Yeah, it reminds me of that fable called Maybe. It's about a father and a son, same thing. The neighbors are witnessing all these things happen to this man, and his response is always maybe. One sounds horrible. One sounds great. One's really positive. Maybe. It's that idea of just we don't know, and in the end, all the things that seem negative actually saved him and his son. But yeah, absolutely. 

Another one, I think that's really important, which used to surprise me and doesn't anymore. But even people that I meet with that I counseled, who are in their 60s or 70s, they still don't know what they like; they don't really have hobbies, they haven't cultivated them. So they don't know what they're passionate about. I'm saying it's never too late. So another way to get out of that feeling of boredom and routine is: have your own passions, have your own goals, have your hobbies. If you are in a relationship, then that's only going to make the relationship even more pleasurable, and maybe do the things that your partner is doing. Find those things and share them together after you've found what really lights you up and feeds you.

I imagine, for one that might be listening that feels like they're drawing a complete blank to that question, that there's some breadcrumbs to follow. That life perhaps moves towards us, or that these openings can occur if we take steps towards exploring, to your earlier point, or being in a playful attitude. That we might learn something or experience something that gives us a new vantage point. I think the analogy of hiking on a mountain, there's no way we can see what the view looks like halfway up. Then once we're halfway up, we see that there's just a new vantage point. Would you agree?

I do. I think often it's hard to even imagine a mountain if you never go out of the place that you're in. So for instance, let's say you live in the city, and to go to nature, you'd have to drive an hour. Then you're like: Oh, I don't really have time for that. We make all kinds of excuses. Or if we're in relationship, again, that the partner expect something, and you show up every day and you're there to provide, or whatever the rules that you've decided are. Then the idea of actually creating change or doing something different can be very scary, and also, you might get a lot of pushback. 

I think it's so important. My husband and I have been married for 27 years, and we're always sharing the things we've discovered about ourselves. So that process of learning and discovering, again, your passions, your goals, your hobbies, and they should change and they should grow, and maybe they stay the same. But there still has to be movement in them. Try even something a different time of the day, just shake things up. Again, I think this one specifically, we make a lot of excuses of why we can't, and they are just excuses.

Well, it just seems like a real honor of the life force energy, if you will. That there's life happening in every person, and then what we get to create an interaction or in a relationship, that we're bringing that energy towards, and we get to experience that in the connection. Rather than like, I'm in this routine, I'm going through the motions, and I'm showing up, but I don't necessarily have a lot to say or offer. Also, I would imagine that it gives a curiosity like: Oh, what's my partner going to say now, or what's new with them now? It helps reinforce that they're new and different every day, and there's something emerging, that they're not the person they were 20 years ago.

That's the point, you just hit the nail on the head. There's no such thing as stable relationships. There can be healthy ones, not stable. Why? Because nothing is stable. We are changing every single day in every moment. We change through every interaction, every experience, both positive and negative. The only freewill you have really is to choose in which way you change. Is it something that will affect you in a positive way, even if it's something that was negative? What is your response to it? Or are you going to let it close your heart and block you? So I think it's so silly, and I hear this a lot with different people, is that this is not the person I married. Well, duh, there's no way it's going to be the person you married. Because we're always changing, and we're meant to. The only way a couple can ensure that they'll like the person that their partner becomes, or the partner will like who they become, is that they have a commitment to changing and growing together. 

By the way, that's another way to make sure you're never bored, because you're always changing. It's fun and different. As you change and you learn these things about yourself, share it with your partner, invite them in on that journey. It's one of the key things to a healthy relationship. I mean, even the silliest things. I remember one day, I said to my husband, I was like, there's something you don't know about me. When I have a sugar craving, I eat the kids' gummy vitamins. Because you get a vitamin, and it is sugar, it's like a candy. Just silly. But it's novel, it's sweet. It creates connection. But the idea of change is super, super important. Just a cautionary tale for people who are single, or even if you're in a relationship and you don't understand why your partner might want different things than they wanted before, this is normal. You should expect this, and you should encourage it actually.

Yes. I think when we're making room for that, then it's helping continue to reinforce and cultivate that. I think we can inspire each other. That if a family member is doing something fun and new, and that can feel both admirable, but also like: Ooh, I'm going to learn some of that, or I'm interested in that, or I never thought about that, but it gets me curious. I think it's really beautiful. 

I think it's a vocabulary that should be in the house. I think children should understand that early on. I think that it helps manage expectations, both from yourself and from the relationship. I mean, my necklace even says change. I'm all about change. I wasn't like that, I hated change. I was like: Oh, I don't want it, I like my routine. I'm a Virgo, I like organization. I like all of that. But it's a recipe for unhappiness. Flexibility is really what makes you happy. Being malleable makes you happy. Yes, you have to be sure and certain about what you believe and who you want to become. But everything else needs to be able to shift and change.

I'm so glad you spoke to that. Because that was in my mind, that maybe certain personalities, or perhaps people who have felt a little bit more on the end of the continuum, a little bit more of the spontaneous, and maybe even felt irresponsible at certain points in their life, maybe they have some caution around being too amicable. Or they are like, I've developed so much strength and discipline and structure. You mentioned fear earlier. I think it's fair to say, I think most humans have some level of fear of the unknown. How do you help people counteract this concern? Because the way I'm feeling you discuss it, it's like there's so much range, we don't need to abandon responsibility or structure. So talk to us a little bit.

Yeah, right. I'm still very structured and very responsible. But I've learned to not be rigid, and I've learned to lean into things that happen outside of what I didn't expect or want, and then see the opportunity in it. I see this a lot with relationships, too. People are so stuck on the idea of what the marriage should look like, or what they thought it would look like, or who they thought their husband would be in the marriage, or who they thought they would be. And because reality is not aligned with that fairytale that they had, they simply can't be happy with where they're at, because they want to be somewhere else. So that's where change comes in. It's about really looking at what is happening, so we have no control over that, and then choosing a different response. 

So I'll give you a basic example. A few years ago, my husband and I were going to a friend's birthday party, and it was like a destination birthday to Mexico. So she wanted to bring her friends on the same flight. We got to the airport just a tad bit late, the person in front of us got on the flight, and they're like, that was the last person you guys can't get on this flight. I'm like, literally we're a minute late. So I could be upset, we could have thought about it, we could have blamed each other who made us late, we're going to miss the first event. None of that. Instead, we're like, when's your next flight? They're like, it's two hours from now or three hours from now. I turn to my husband and I was like: You know what, we haven't had a long time in a really long time, let's make this a date. Airports are pretty fun these days, we can go have a drink, we can walk around, we will get a shoulder massage. 

It's that mindset of this thing didn't happen that we expected, and now there's something else. Let's see what else is available. So in my book, fear is not an option, which is why I named it that. Fear is no longer an option, you're going to ask yourself, what is an option? That's the kind of change I'm talking about. 

It's very hard to do. But once you start doing it, and you practice it, it becomes part of you, and your days are so much happier. I mean, I'm telling you from experience.

Yes, I can feel it. I also want to ask, this is different than what one might say bypassing or even spiritual bypassing, which is just going to the opportunity or the positive without actually acknowledging perhaps pain or grief or difficulty. Can you speak to that?

I don't agree with that, and I think it's really important to acknowledge what you're feeling. Feel all the things. Again, those negative emotions are there for a very important reason. They're there to get your attention, but also tell you what you're not comfortable with. So if you're upset at somebody, or let's even say somebody came to you and they have all kinds of opinions about you. Most people, what they would do is, they'd close in, they'd get defensive. I don't like you. Even if they don't say it out loud, that's kind of the feeling. What I would suggest in that moment is that you pause, you wait even three days before you say anything, and then you see what's stuck in that moment. You ask yourself for those three days: why did this bother me, was there any truth to it, what don't I believe in, is there anything I want to adopt from it?

So this process is how you cultivate an amazing relationship with self. You're giving yourself that emotional feedback. You're able to separate the person, the message, what you want to take away from it, what you want to throw away, and then if you want to change or not. But again, that requires work. But I think it's such an important thing to do, because then you're not affected. This is the only way to ensure that you're not affected by anything that comes at you. You always have a choice. But you also have to believe in yourself. If you don't love yourself, then anything anybody says to you is going to throw you off course, I understand that. But this is the process of learning to love yourself.

That was my next question. I'm going to pause and hold that really quick just to respond to what you're saying. I really appreciate that. Because I've used the analogy of stubbing a toe, like it hurts. I want to be like: Ouch, that hurts! There's a physical experience around that. Yet, if I let it have its process, maybe I learn: Okay, I need to not be moving so fast and be in my head, or whatever it is for me to recognize how I can maybe move differently. But it doesn't mean that didn't hurt. I pretend it didn't hurt and I restrict the experience around it. It's how to partner with, can I let this have its process, acknowledge it, notice it, and also have some of these query/inquiry questions that allow me to have this learning that support my further development?

Exactly. You're not going to get upset at the wall because you stubbed your toe, that's the other thing. So don't make it about the person that told you or judge them. We do that very often, like: Oh, I don't like this person, or I'm going to write them off, how dare they! That's just an ego response. What I'm suggesting is to be curious in every area of your life. When you start to live that way and you start to, again, decide: Yes, I heard this thing, I want to change that. Or I heard this thing, I don't agree with that. You start to have this amazing relationship with yourself, and then you're not afraid to have any conversation. I will go to people at this point, and I'm like: Wow, I felt an energy, that sounded like something you want to talk about, or something you want to say to me. Because again, I know that I can process it in that way, so I don't mind hearing some of the things. It's never pleasant to hear anything negative. But I'm able to now pause and take a different view from a higher vantage point and say: Okay, was this really about me? Or could it be about them, what else is going on in their lives? Again, what do I want to change, what sounds true and authentic, and what doesn't? So all of those are tools for change and for growth and for movement. You're never going to be in a rut if you live in that reality. 

As you're describing this, it feels as though there's a real, to your point, self-love. Another way that it might be said is, I'm not going to abandon myself, or I'm not going to be being okay with things not okay. Like, I'm really with myself, and the integrity and the alignment of self in a way that is honoring that supports that process. Earlier I was thinking, there's a little bit of trust here. Trusting that it will be okay, that I can pivot in the unknown and I will be okay. Some people don't have that felt sense that it will be okay.

You're right, because I think there's a disconnection between their essence, their soul, and something greater. And when you don't feel like the universe, or however you want to phrase it, will take care of you, then of course you're going to feel like you need to protect and to guard. It's a very different way of living. A lot of what I'm sharing, yes, there is a spiritual nature to it, of course. I think that is the point of change. I think we're supposed to leave the world more elevated and different than we came into it. I think this is how you do it. Then when you start to live like that, then you actually feel taken care of, because everything makes sense. Everything that happens to you happens through you, if you use it for growth, if you use the hardships, if you use the hard words. If you use the difficult experiences and you really say: Okay, well, what's the silver lining here, what am I supposed to learn? Then you are changed for the better, and then you feel, of course, very taken care of. It's not something that's a bad thing, it becomes the thing that was the necessary thing almost

No kidding. A lot of these things are, one might say, curriculum for our growth and developing. As you were using the language, I also love the idea of co-creating, that we have a participation in this, that when we can turn towards the feeling state or the circumstance, and both give space to what is emerging, maybe even the reaction, and have some inquiry to get to those deeper layers that give us some of that growth, curriculum and learning. And also, some support and that care, self-care and self-love around how to move forward. Is that right?

Absolutely, and I'm going to give you another word that I don't think people would expect to appreciate in a relationship. But you want opposition, and that sounds tragic. Like, well, I don't want to be opposed, I want to be accepted. But opposition is actually a very good thing that ensures you won't actually have boredom in the relationship. So in my book, Rethink Love, I write about a couple, and his name is Ethan. He would come home from work every day, and his wife would be waiting for him at the door with his Highland parked neat. Take his briefcase, take his jacket, his kids were all bathed and they were doing their homework, dinner was ready for whenever he was ready to eat. His bath was drawn, she'd washed his back while he spoke about his day. By the way, most of all the men that read this chapter are like: I love Ethan, can I meet him? I'm like, no, this is not the point. By the way, though, after they read the rest of the chapter, they realize this is not really what they want. 

The problem with this setup, I'll tell you that what happened with this couple. He ended up leaving her because he was so unfulfilled and he was so bored. He wanted somebody who would challenge him, the way that he thought, and would bring different ideas and would have interesting conversations and would oppose different things he did and different points of view. Because there's growth in that, that's a really powerful energy. But he felt so guilty because he had set this up. He chose this way, he made it this way, because it's comfortable and it's nice. It felt good at first, and then he got really bored. I see this a lot too. People, they're attracted to somebody who is hardworking, a go-getter, smart, ambitious. Then when they get married, they're like: I want you to stay home and cook, and I want dinner to be ready when I got there. You're attracted to something else, so why are you dictating this other thing? You're going to see how that somehow is going to come together, and you're not going to be very happy, and neither will your partner. So opposition is necessary.

Yes. I mean, the end of the day, I don't think we want to get our way with everything or be in relationship with ourselves. We want to have the experience of someone else adding dimension. It typically also even relates to sexual intimacy and the kind of erotic tension, if you will, that there's some polarity and ability to feel some different or tension. I know there's a lot written about that. But I love that you're weaving this in as it relates to boredom. Because sometimes we do get into the people-pleasing tendency, in that: Oh, that's the loving thing to do is to say yes, or to concede or acquiesce or give over. The result of that maybe doesn't help us grow or evolve us or add energy to the dynamic.

1,000%. I love that you brought up intimacy. I always say that sex is love in motion; how you are outside of the bedroom is how you will be inside. If you're stingy outside, you're going to be stingy inside the bedroom. You can make the list, it mirrors that. Talk about curiosity and having new experiences, you should be able to talk about what you enjoy and things that you might want to do. I think that you can tell. Sometimes couples are like, we haven't had sex in a year. I'm like, well, what happened a year ago, what happened a year before that? Don't just accept that that's just a normal. Again, part of life, we're older, we've had the same partner for so many years. 

Lovely, I can see how this all interrelates. Even just in the bedroom, categorizing something as bad. Like: Oh well, that happened, let's not assign judgment to it, and let's be curious and open and what's going on under. I'd just say even the playfulness and all the things you've already described. So you've mentioned your book Rethink Love a couple times. Is there anything else you want to say about the book and how people might find it?

So yeah, I have a few books. But since this is related, just Rethink Love. You can find it on Amazon. You can find it on my website, RethinkLife.today. I've just launched a Relationship Masterclass, so to speak. It's six different acts, and you can find that at SpirituallyHungry.life. Super excited about that. It talks about some of the things that we touched upon, but it really unpacks it, like red flags and bartering couples. It's very interactive. It's super fun, and I'm very excited. You can follow me on Instagram or anywhere on social media, @MonicaRBerg74.

Wonderful, so I'll make sure to have your social media handles, as well as the link to the masterclass, as well as your books. Will you say the website again?

SpirituallyHungry.life.

On that website, they can find the masterclass and other offerings as well? 

Yes. 

Okay, excellent. Well, thank you so much, Monica, for all that you've shared and just what you're doing, and really appreciated having you today.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

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