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Do you find yourself repeatedly falling into patterns of insecurity, sabotaging your relationships and sense of self-worth? Many of us are haunted by memories from the past that influence our current thoughts, emotions, and sensations—creating a cycle of negativity that feels impossible to break. But there is a way out. Through compassionate self-awareness and targeted self-compassion, you can learn to transform these self-defeating cycles into empowering pathways for growth.

In this episode, we delve into practical strategies to help you transform your relationship with yourself and others. We'll explore the powerful STEAM model—sensations, thoughts, emotions, actions, and mentalizing—as a guide to building self-awareness and self-compassion. By reflecting on past patterns and practicing compassionate self-awareness, you'll learn how to separate recurring thoughts and feelings, fostering growth and self-acceptance.

Additionally, we'll uncover insights into attachment styles and how they shape your perceptions and interactions, providing you with the tools to improve your sense of worthiness and lovability. Tune in to discover methods for cultivating emotional resilience, empathy, and connection, paving the way for healthier relationships and a more grounded sense of self.

Dr. Leslie Becker-Phelps is dedicated to helping people understand themselves and what they need to do to become emotionally and psychologically healthy. She is in private practice, hosts a YouTube channel, and is a prolific writer. She has authored The Insecure in Love Workbook, Insecure in Love, and Bouncing Back from Rejection. She also writes the Authentically You blog and the Making Change blog on Psychology Today.

In this episode

6:29 Leslie’s passion for helping people and how her career has evolved.

9:37 Understanding attachment theory and its impact on well-being.

13:54 How early experiences influence adult relationships and attachment styles.

22:00 The importance of understanding one's attachment styles and the concept of self-awareness in fostering healthier relationships.

30:55 Differentiating between thoughts and emotions to gain greater self-awareness and break the cycle of insecurity.

34:24 Using steam to break the cycle of insecurity and self-sabotage.

46:49 A comprehensive resource for relationship growth.

Your Check List of Actions to Take

• Begin by tuning into your body's physical sensations when you feel triggered or distressed, as a way to ground yourself and gain awareness.
• When experiencing strong emotions, take a moment to pause and reflect on the associated thoughts and feelings, allowing you to observe rather than react impulsively.
• Write down recurring thoughts and emotions to track patterns over time, aiding in your understanding of personal triggers and responses.
• Engage in self-compassion exercises, such as speaking kindly to yourself in moments of distress, to build a more supportive internal dialogue.
• Approach distressing feelings with curiosity rather than judgment to better understand the underlying causes and learn from them.
• Apply the STEAM (sensations, thoughts, emotions, actions, mentalizing) model to deconstruct and analyze your experiences, leading to more informed responses.
• Practice mentalizing by considering where your or others' actions come from, fostering empathy and improving relational dynamics..

Mentioned

The Insecure in Love Workbook (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Insecure in Love (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Bouncing Back from Rejection (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

ERP 423: How to Transcend Trauma (And the Effects Experience in Relationship) — An Interview with Dr. Frank Anderson

ERP 261: How to Strengthen Your Relationship from a Polyvagal Perspective – An Interview with Dr. Stephen Porges

Relationship Map To Happy, Lasting Love

Connect with Dr. Leslie Becker-Phelps

Websites: drbecker-phelps.com

Facebook: facebook.com/DrLeslieBP

YouTube: youtube.com/c/LeslieBeckerPhelpsPhD

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/leslie-becker-phelps-ph-d-7221b155

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

About Today's Show

Leslie, thank you for joining us. It's really exciting to have you on the show and just to be able to support people and all that you're offering to the world around this very important topic.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be chatting with you today.

Yes. I will say, with the topic of breaking the cycle of insecurity and self-sabotage, I know many, many listeners feel challenged in this area. And you're going to really help us give some not only tools to work with in the sense of how to understand some of the mechanisms, but just some real relational understanding. So I love what you're going to be sharing with us. 

Before we pivot towards that topic, is there anything you want people to know about you and where you're coming from here?

I'm just coming from a place of: I love what I do. I love trying to help people. I'll tell you how I got on track with what I wrote about, and really most of the work that I do now. There was a point at which I was director of a women's trauma program. I've also worked in Indian Reservation, as well as just some other experiences. But what I found myself interested in was, for a while I was interested in positive psychology, which I think is great. But I kept gravitating towards, what do you do when people are really struggling and there's always helpful tools, and the tools don't seem to help? Like, when they're stuck, what's going on and how can you help them? That's what got me on the path of looking at people's attachment, which we'll be talking about, the biology that underlies people's struggles, and then that gives us direction for how to help people. So my writing, my YouTube, my therapy, it's all about how to help people get a sense of well-being. That's what hopefully we'll be talking about, and that's really what motivates me, drives me with this.

I love that, thank you. I do feel, and I don't know if this is also something that you're speaking to here, the interconnectedness with the physiology. Really a big fan of polyvagal theory, and just how that trauma and the experience—we had Frank Anderson on the show not too long ago, with the Internal Family Systems—and just how any overwhelming experience can be a part of our emotional and physiological, just has such a big impact. So if we can give room and space to help look at that, metabolize that, but also have other ways around how to be in the world, that can assist us in different ways here.

Sure, and actually, just to give a word towards trauma, trauma is like a big thing. It's almost like a buzzword these days. 

There are some differences I would do in therapy, that I would recommend if you have a trauma history and you really have that level of sensitivity and difficulty. But a lot of the same stuff applies, because it's the same biology that's driving us and where our struggles are. I just don't want that to get lost, because I feel like these days sometimes that does get lost, and what is trauma and all of that. If you have struggles in relationship, if you have struggles with anxiety, these things can be helpful. 

There we go, I love it. We perhaps don't even need to define it. I mean, it's helpful for some. But perhaps we don't even need to get caught up around, am I experiencing trauma or am I not? That these things are going to have benefits regardless.

Right, I do find some people get caught up in if they have trauma or they don't have trauma. If it's helpful, that's the marker, that's the thing. 

No kidding! Okay, wonderful. As we move forward, and much of your work is attachment theory informed, attachment style informed, what would you want to say here? I know you really talk about the importance of connection on health and well-being. Where would you like to start here?

Boy, that's a big question! For me, what I have come to at this point in my career, my understanding is that the sense of well-being, of feeling good, of happiness, all those positives, to me, at its base is about connection. That's it. It comes down to connection. Obviously, there's a lot more details than that. But it's connection, and that's what we need to talk about, and that's the whole attachment system that we have. So biologically, we are wired, we're designed with a way to survive in the world. And how do we survive? When you're an infant and you can't take care of yourself, you'll look to your caregiver. So there's this thing that we have where we're connected to other people, and that gives a sense of safety; physically being safe, but also emotional safety. There's all kinds of things that grow out from that, in terms of feeling safe in ourselves, positively about ourselves, and hopefully positively about our relationships. So it's about connection that helps us feel good, have a sense of meaning in life and purpose and positivity. I can, if you'd like, speak a little bit more about the attachment system, if that would be helpful.

If you would like. I know many people have talked about the system and the whole working model, but everybody's vantage point is a little different. So if you would like, if it would support what you want to share, absolutely.

Well, one of the ways that I think about the attachment system that we have. So again, you're born into the world, and we are wired. Infants, they'll look into a mother's face, so already they're looking for connection. We would call that connection or that relationship, attachment. So for those people not familiar with attachment theory, it's a way of talking about that connection, that relationship. Through that, one way of looking at attachment is we develop a way of understanding ourselves, and we would call that our model of self. And also a way of understanding others, and we would call that our model of others. So if you have a caregiver—a mother, a grandparent, whoever it is that's taking care of that infant—if they're responding when the infant or the young child, or even older child, is distressed, and they give a sense of like: Oh, I understand your distress. If they give a sense of feeling it, not getting distressed with the child, but having a calming response, whether the child is crying or laughing or whatever. There's this response that says: I'm here for you, I care about you, I love you. That gives the child a sense of: I'm good, I have value, I am lovable, I am worthy. The model of self is arranged from I feel worthy, all the way to I feel unworthy, or I feel lovable, all the way to I feel unlovable. So that's the model of self. 

In that relationship, again, it's the parent or the caregiver who is responding. So then you have the model of other that's developed, which is, is that person emotionally available to me? That ranges, the model of other, from they're emotionally available, all the way over to they're emotionally unavailable. That could mean that they're not there. It could mean they respond with hostility. It could be that they're not competent in how they respond, so they're not able to help the child. So those two things, that runs through all of my work, looking at your model of self, how you feel about yourself, and your model of other and significant others, and so how you feel in relationship as far as the availability of the other people. So hopefully that gives people a sense of attachment theory and what that has to say about how we connect in the world, back to the word of connection.

Thank you, just giving some structure to what you're describing, to support our conversation here. As you talk about young years in one's life, would you be willing to say a little bit more about how someone might be able to look at their experience of model of self and model of others in adulthood, or even in a romantic relationship. Just some examples there. I mean, it's probably easy to kind of translate that of feeling lovable, feeling worthy, or how consistent and responsive someone is being or unresponsive they're being. But if you will, that could just be helpful.

Happy to do it. So all of this experience of self and others is set in childhood, but it's not set in stone. Different experiences could have an effect as we go through life. But it's a definite foundation. So you carry that into adulthood. If you want to think about when you are in a relationship, you have a partner, if you from younger years had the experience of not being valued, not feeling loved—whatever your parents did, you didn't feel particularly valued or loved—then you're going to really doubt yourself. You'll feel uncomfortable. You may feel like you have to work hard in order for the other person to stay in relationship with you. You may feel kind of needy. Like, you're upset, then you feel like you need attention. Because you don't feel lovable, and we all have the need to feel loved, so you're always seeking that. You may find yourself jealous if your partner is talking to someone else. You might be jealous for the attention. Oh my gosh, they're going to leave me. So now it's like: I'm not okay, and they're going to leave me. So you might shrink up and pull back. You might lash out in jealousy. There's all kinds of ways you can show it. 

But there's an example of the model of self, the feeling of not feeling lovable, that there's something wrong with you. Sometimes people feel like they're just flawed or they're inadequate. Different people have different ways of defining it. But if you're listening, you know you'll have your way that'll click, and then you'll have your own words that would explain that feeling. Then that obviously influences your reaction to others, especially if you expect that other people, say, will be mean to you or will abandon you, or whatever your script is.

Would you say lovable and worthy are, not interchangeable, but similar?

Yeah, I'm trying to put words to an experience. That's why I kind of give different words. Because some people, you'll say lovable, and they'll say: I'm lovable, but I don't feel worthy. See, for each person, you have to be like, this is the realm we're dealing with, and then you can figure out what variation feels like what are the words that describe it more accurately for yourself. I do want to say, sometimes people miss that there's a difference between feeling loved and feeling lovable. So in a particular relationship, you may think you feel loved because the person is being caring towards you, they're doing things. But in the end, you feel like what they're loving is the fact that you're really nice to them. You're not feeling that you're really a lovable person. You feel like there's something wrong with you, that you have to act in particular ways to get the love you want. If that's your experience, then I would describe that as feeling not lovable, and I think that's an important thing to know if that's your experience.

Thank you. As we're looking at connection in this larger fabric of relating, and then the model of self and the model of other, it sounds as though one could feel or experience being lovable, and perhaps uncertain or distrusting of the other's availability. Or vice versa, that they have a trust. Is that possible that they would have a trust that someone's going to be responsive and available, but also not feel worthy or lovable?

Absolutely. So I always find this almost easier if I could show a picture of it, because I have a diagram of the four quadrants. There's four different basic attachment styles. But for someone who feels, and actually a lot of the people who go to self-help who might be listening now may have what we call a preoccupied attachment style. And what that is, is you struggle with feeling like there's something wrong with you, essentially wrong with you, or you have a deficit, or you're not lovable, you're not worthy. You have that. But you actually think that other people are available, they could be there. But here's the rub: they would be there for somebody who was lovable. But since you're not lovable, there's something wrong with you, you can't trust they're going to be there for you. So then you start thinking all about, what can I do? I'm going to be nice, or maybe I have to earn a lot of money, or I have to do these things to get them to love me. You become preoccupied with getting that love, getting that acceptance from others. So we would call that a preoccupied attachment style. 

If we flip it and you say that I feel like I'm very worthy, I'm capable, I'm good, in that solid sense of good, but I don't trust other people to be there for me. They're going to be hostile to me, or they'll just be inept. I can't trust them. I'm going to dismiss what they have to say, what they have to offer. Now you still may have a need for connection, so you may want relationship. But on an emotional level, you dismiss them. The tricky part of this is that you're actually also dismissing of yourself, if that's your style. Because yes, you feel good about yourself, but the way you feel good about yourself is by ignoring any distress that you feel. You've learned to just not pay attention to it, ignore it, submerge those feelings. So you're dismissing to yourself, you're dismissing to others. And guess what we call that attachment style, the dismissing attachment style. Those are the two main ones. When people have insecure attachment, you're going to see that more often. 

And for people who are securely attached, these are people that feel like: I am lovable, I am worthy, I am capable. And you know what else? If I'm struggling, I can also turn to other people. Their model of others is, they're going to be there for me, they're going to support me. So during times of struggle, they can turn to themselves and they can turn to others, we call that a secure attachment style. 

The one I left out is the people who, sadly, really struggle a lot more. If you are someone who feels like you don't feel good about yourself, and you feel like other people aren't there, then what do you do? If you're going through a hard time, how do you find strength, where do you turn? You go to turn to yourself, but you feel bad about yourself. You turn to others, they're not going to be there. So you kind of get lost in this chaotic, disorganized, stressful state. And we would call that a disorganized attachment style, or anxious-avoidant attachment style. And that's really hard. That's a really hard place to be. 

Having said all that, I feel that it's really important to know that it's not like there's only four different ways of being. Those are categories, and you'll remember, this is all based on your model of self, which is a whole range, your model of others, which is a whole range. So every single one of us, we may generally fall into a category, but we can be in a lot of different places in that category. And to make it even more complicated, you can be different in different relationships or in different aspects of your life. So it's a lot to get your brain around. If you're not familiar with attachment theory, you might need to hear it a few times to put it together, and then get a sense of where you are.

I so appreciate you naming the reality of how this is expressed, that for research purposes, we need to categorize and really have a sense of these different domains. Yet, as you're saying, there's a lot of variance, there's a lot of unique ways in which you might experience it. So it's perhaps, in life, more complex. So I appreciate you acknowledging that.

As far as for someone who's listening, I think to me, it's more helpful to think: Oh, where am I on the range of feeling lovable to not lovable, and where am I on the range of feeling or believing or experiencing others as emotionally available or not emotionally available? Because if you can know where you are in those places, then that tells you what you want to work on. That gives you a direction, as opposed to just like a name of a style, which is just less direction in and of itself.

Does this relate to a lot of what you really want to encourage people to look at, as far as self-awareness and compassion? Because this is something you really emphasize.

I do emphasize it. So what it is, is if you are feeling negatively towards yourself, that's going to undermine also how you relate to others. So the very first thing, if you struggle with a lot of anxiety or negativity towards yourself, the first thing you want to do is you want to get a sense of what's going on for me. 

That's not so easy. Because if you're struggling, there's pain in there. And we often don't want to sit with pain, we keep wanting to hop out of it. Sometimes that hopping we experience as anxiety, or we want to shut down around it, if we want to. But we will shut down around it. 

So an important step is, become self-aware. And when you become really self-aware, and if you can sit with that awareness, then you can have empathy for yourself. Remember, I talked about connection, that connection is so important. That includes connecting to yourself. So if you can relate to yourself in a way where you can know what's going on and you can be accepting of it and caring towards it, have some empathy, then you're going to hopefully develop a desire to make it better. This is the self-compassion. So I call that compassionate self-awareness. You can't just start with self-compassion very often. Because if you feel negatively towards yourself, you could be like: Oh, be nice to myself. But you're not going to buy it. But when we develop self awareness and we have empathy, then you move towards self-compassion, and then you're more supportive to yourself, more caring towards yourself. And now we start building that strength, moving that model of self towards feeling more lovable, more good, more okay. Then you can also develop awareness of others and help your relationships be stronger. I do focus on that.

But self-awareness is a really big topic. What does that mean to be self-aware? The field of psychology, as you know, has a lot of different ways of looking at that. If you want to look at different therapies, there's all kinds of ways people approach it. So I've tried to pull it all together, and I talk about five basic domains of self-awareness that you can walk yourself through and look at. So I use the acronym STEAM. You want to gain steam. 

S is for sensations: what sensations are you having? Very often we live from the neck up, we don't even know what's happening in our body. So if you can know that your stomach is clenched or your heart is beating fast, or whatever your experience is. So what are my sensations? T is for thoughts: what are my thoughts? So we have thoughts all the time. But we don't always grab them to know them, we're just having them. So what are my thoughts, and what are my thoughts about my thoughts? So if I'm thinking that I am not worthy, and now I'm thinking that I'm such a jerk for thinking I'm not worthy, because why would I think that? Like, you could have all kinds of thoughts. So sensations, thoughts. Then E is for emotions: what am I feeling? I am feeling afraid of being abandoned. And what am I feeling about what I'm feeling? I am feeling really angry with myself for being afraid of being abandoned by someone who's being so nice to me. You can get a lot of layers there. So that's emotions. A is for actions: what are your actions? So in your relationship, perhaps your partner goes out to spend time with friends, and your actions are to text them every three seconds to say, what are they doing? Because you're afraid they're going to leave you. What are your actions? What are your reactions? There's a lot to explore there, but they kind of make sense.

The M is a difficult one, and that's called mentalizing. It is a very jargony word, and I apologize for that. But I didn't come up with the word, I'm just using it. Mentalizing is if you can understand where someone's actions are coming from. So if you understand their thoughts, their feelings, their fears, their fantasies, what their experience is. If you get that, then you can have empathy, then you can have compassion. Then if you're in a relationship, you can have forgiveness. But you can mentalize yourself, as well as others. So that's an important piece. 

So we pull together STEAM. You may notice that if you can really connect with all those aspects of yourself, if you could be aware of all of that, what you're doing is you're connecting with you. We're back to connection—connection within yourself, and then connection in relationship with others too. That was a mouthful. Questions? That makes sense?

Yes, it makes a lot of sense. Leslie, even the last M, as I'm imagining what you're describing in all of them. But the mentalizing, I can get how we might say: Oh, can you put yourself in their perspective or in their shoes, and try to get a sense of what they might be experiencing on all these levels? Then how we might apply that to self. I'm relating it to a time where perhaps I did something without a tremendous amount of awareness, and it was an interaction, and I was like: Oh, what might have I been feeling there, what was I needing there, knowing what I know about myself? Like, let me pause and see if I can unpack that a little bit. Then I'm like: Oh, that makes more sense! Is that what you're describing?

Exactly, that's perfect, better than I said it. So for people listening, if you were just to write on a piece of paper, S.T.E.A.M: Sensations, Thoughts, Emotions, Actions, Mentalizing. If you hit this place where something doesn't feel right, you're struggling in some way, but you don't know what's going on fully, you can start with any of those domains that you're aware of. You're like: Oh, let me look at how I was acting. You write that under Actions, and then you can look at that. You may then be able to be like: Oh, wait, so if I was acting that way, well, maybe I was feeling angry or afraid. Oh yeah, you know what I am. You can just start to lay out all the different levels. I will say, if you're really stuck, a great place to begin is with sensations. Connect with your body. Because your body is telling you something, there's signs of something. So if you connect with your body and you're like, I don't know what I'm feeling, but I can sense in my body, my stomach is tight, I'm having trouble breathing because my chest is tight. When you start being aware of that a lot of times, then you say, what emotions may relate to this, it becomes clearer. It's amazing how that can work, how helpful that can be. 

No kidding! Just any point here we can access and start to get curious and unpack. Typically, it's been my experience, if I'm feeling overwhelmed or I'm having an experience where I'm having a lot of emotion and I just want to understand more, I might be drawing blanks. But if I just pull at one of these and start to get a little curious, it starts to trickle out. It's like needing a warm-up, and it starts all flowing.

Absolutely. You used a great word, an important word, curious. You get curious. 

To remind us, the T was for thoughts or thinking? 

Yeah, absolutely. 

That's usually a place I would start, is the stories I'm making up or the thoughts that I'm having. Does it allow for the excavation or the unpacking of that, so it's not all swimming around internally, and then being able to look at it a little bit with more objectivity or with a little more perspective?

I think yes. I would say, a lot of times we get caught in our thoughts. When I talk with people, sometimes I say, what are you feeling? They'll tell me, I'm feeling like I know they're going to leave me. That's not a feeling, that's a thought. So we want to make sure that when you're reflecting, that yes, it's great to have thoughts. But if you're not really having any emotions, and if you're not sure what the emotions are, just go on the internet, look up emotions list, you'll get plenty of lists. You'll find them. You need to become more aware of what your emotions are. You need the emotions and you need the thoughts. You need all the levels of this. So yes, excavate the thoughts, that's wonderful. But if you're just in the thoughts, you may end up caught in a pattern that you don't get out of. Because you're not allowing yourself to be open to all the levels of awareness.

They're interconnected, right? Because even as you say I'm afraid of being abandoned, I feel a tremendous amount of fear, and that is an emotion, fear of being abandoned. But also the thought about it, or the story or the perception of it.

Right, when you can start to know your emotions and your thoughts and how they interact—this is part of that mentalizing process—then it helps you to deconstruct some things. I've taken out of a particular kind of therapy, this phrase of: Just because it feels true doesn't mean it is true. So you can start to separate out: Oh, intellectually, I can see my partner has been supportive and caring and has shown me no indication that they're going to abandon me. And it feels like I know they're going to abandon me, that feels true. 

But that means you have to be aware of, what are your thoughts, what are your emotions, and then kind of the combination, what are your emotional thoughts? When you start to separate these things out, it could be very, very helpful.

No kidding. Now, where would you put memory? Because some people have memories or reminders of a time when that might get triggered, if you will, or activated in a scenario. Would that be more of the sensation and thought? There's overlap. They're connected, like we were just saying.

Yeah, it could be any of them. So you may have thoughts that come to you, and you don't realize that those are memories. Sometimes, when you're working with somebody, when I'm doing therapy, they'll be saying things, and then we realize what they're saying is actually a repeat, echoes from the past of them growing up. So those are thoughts. Then when you explore it, you realize there are some emotions tied to it. Sometimes I work with people, and it starts as a sensation. They don't know what's going on, but they know that their body all of a sudden gets tight, where they feel a shutting down. That's a sensation. So that's where we start, and that's really based in some memory. So the memories have all aspects of the scene, the self-awareness.

Thank you, Leslie. I'm wondering, as we're describing or you're helping us with all this as a frame, how would you encourage somebody to work with this, to break the cycle of insecurity or self-sabotage? Help us with the progression of this, or what this could look like.

So great question. In a sense, we've already talked about it. So I think a very helpful thing to do might be to just write, like I said, the word STEAM out on a piece of paper. And you know what each initial is for: Sensations, Thoughts, Emotions, Actions, Mentalizing. Think about a situation where you're struggling, and lay out each of those domains, and that can help you. That's kind of a deep-dive, that takes time. You're not doing this in five minutes, and you're not doing it in a single session. It's a long range. If you kept doing that as maybe a regular journaling thing, that's going to help you. 

But you can start more simply by just being aware of, are there certain thoughts or certain feelings that recur? If you can make note of the patterns that you're seeing, then you can at least flag: Oh, this is a pattern, and you can start separating that out from this is something that's actually happening. Or you can start to reflect on it, or try to make a change. So you start to mentalize. Really, that's what I'm talking about. How can you help yourself? You learn to mentalize, get to know what's going on for you. So that you can empathize, you can have compassion for your struggles, and then you can be supportive of yourself. And then mentalizing others, if you can get to know what's going on for them. Step back, try to kind of compartmentalize your stuff for a little bit, really open up to their experience where you can see it through their eyes. And when you connect with them, then you can have empathy for them, and hopefully some compassion and forgiveness. In close relationships, we always need forgiveness, because you allow yourself to be vulnerable and might hurt each other, not meaning to. Those are ways that you can move yourself towards feeling a greater sense of wellness and well-being, and feeling more self-accepting and having self-compassion, and then also offering all of that to your partner so then your relationship gets stronger. So those are some broad ways. I mean, there are certain things you could do before you meet someone. Think about what is it I want in a partner to at least know what you're looking for.

I imagine, if one is doing the STEAM, the acronym, and in practice with this, I'm associating this with almost a pattern interrupt and an opportunity for corrective experience or repair. That perhaps in early experiences, as we're talking about the attachment model, that we got a little bit of an imprint or a learning or a shaping around that. In adulthood, we typically run that system until we perhaps do an upgrade. I mean, that sounds so hierarchical, I don't mean it like that. But what you were saying before, perhaps having an opportunity if we're perpetuating a way of being. As you said earlier, perhaps what we think is true, that maybe isn't true. That if we slow this down and do the practice of the STEAM, that perhaps we're going to give more space to have self-compassion, have awareness around what might be being perpetuated unnecessarily, or what might be interfering, or the repetitive tendencies to give opportunity for new choice, new response. Am I hearing that right?

You're absolutely hearing that. So one of the first steps is to know that there's something that's off, to know that there's something you have to even think about and reflect about, to know that there's a pattern that needs to be changed. So you're absolutely right. If you can know that, which is part of what we're talking about, then you can choose to pause and say: Well, wait a second, what's going on? Then it becomes in that pause where you can shift or change. 

One part that can be very difficult is, our brains are wired to problem-solve. So it's always going to be looking, remember it's back to attachment, it's about survival; we're looking for the threat. So you keep looking for threats. So on one level, that could be helpful if you know to slow down to look for threats. On another level, if all you see are all the problems, you actually don't get better, because you just get deeper into the problems. So that's where, if you can slow it down, like you were saying, and have a place where you can see what's going on, and choose to make different choices, not just keep playing out the patterns. And you develop the awareness, you develop the compassion. 

So yes, as you're saying, you can pause, you can see what's going on, and you can start to make choices to make a difference. And you want to bring the positivity, the caring with you, and that takes some nurture. 

Yes, it's almost as if it's the re-parenting perhaps, or re-caregiving the caregiving that wasn't for whatever circumstances in our early experience, that we can begin to foster that. Sometimes it's hard to begin to access the empathy or self-compassion. Is that right?

Absolutely, that's exactly what I was saying. 

I know we're winding down soon here. But for people who maybe have a difficult time accessing self-compassion, where would you invite someone to begin? Because my sense is, as we get a footing or a toehold, that we can be in more practice and strengthen that experience. But for someone who's having difficulty even accessing, what might you recommend? 

So I would come back to what I had mentioned earlier, something called compassionate self-awareness. That's what you want to develop, compassionate self-awareness. Now you'll notice that compassion is an adjective, it's describing self-awareness. So the thing you want is you want self-awareness, and you want to do it from a compassionate perspective. So we've talked about STEAM; STEAM is a way of developing the self-awareness. Then you can use that to help move you towards the self-compassion, and also the compassion for others. 

So we want other awareness too, we want to build that in. But we're starting with the self-awareness, because that's our foundation, that's our beginning. So you want to develop compassionate self-awareness. A way to do that is through developing STEAM, we've talked about that. And you want to, with the word that you used, engage with curiosity. And also, it calls for bravery, it calls for courage to be able to stay with some of these distressing feelings or difficulties that you face, to keep coming back with the curiosity, with the caring, with the wanting to make things better. It's not so easy.

Not so easy. So perhaps as one is doing STEAM and in the practice of that being curious, if the inner critic starts to come in or the harsh judge, that you're really inviting people to have a positive stance, an unconditional regard towards self. Is that right? 

It's great if they can do that. A lot of times you can't. Some of the people who are listening will be like: Yeah, that sounds nice, but how do I do that? So yes, if you can do that, start there absolutely. But if you are more aligned with the critic, then I would start with the self-awareness. The self-awareness leads to the compassion. So if you become more aware, and this is a whole nother episode of podcast, we're looking at talking about the self-criticism, then you might become aware that not only is that critic in your head, but the victim is in your head too. So now you can become aware of the critic and the victim, and now you can see that dynamic, and you can have different reactions to that. And what that can do is lead you towards feeling some compassion for yourself, and maybe having a desire to respond differently to the critic. You might also be like: Well, where did that come from? This is part of self-awareness. What's going on that I keep beating myself up? Oh wow, that's a repeat of what I heard when I was a kid or whatever. So then you can bring compassion. But you can also maybe start to feel some of the things you couldn't feel as a child. Like, wow, maybe I was really angry, but there's no way I could have shown that to my parents, that wouldn't have been okay. Maybe it's okay now. Now we're going deeper and deeper, way farther than what somebody can do very easily. But there are these different levels. 

So my point, I guess, is if you follow the self-awareness, then you choose to see from either a caring perspective, if you could do it. If you can't do that, try to step out of it, and as objective as you can get. Like, well maybe, how would I feel toward somebody else in that situation? Then you start separating out that emotional thinking from the more objective thinking. Those are all different paths to get you to the compassion.

Okay, got it. I, for some reason, was hearing you say that one could do the STEAM practice from a negative stance. But you're saying the STEAM practice is going to give you maybe a little bit more of that neutrality that can allow some perspective-taking, that will hopefully give you more room to access this self-compassion. Is that right?

That is part of what it does. You see, it's very complicated. It absolutely does that. But it also allows you to step into the experience. It allows you to be in the experience and reflect on the experience, to do both. So if you're just reflecting on the experience without being in it, without feeling it, you're going to get stuck. Because you're not really having your experience, and you're not feeling really valued for who you are, for being. So if you just step back, that's part of it. But if you just step into it and you don't have perspective, you're going to get swept up in the old patterns. So you have to allow for your experience and step back. Believe it or not, self-awareness can help you to do that. So when you're labeling your emotions, you're like: Oh, I feel sad, I feel angry, I feel betrayed, I feel whatever, you're labeling them. But part of the emotion piece of this is also to allow yourself to feel those feelings, not just to label them, but to feel them. That's what we're working towards, is both. It does get complicated.

That's a big difference, and I'm so glad you're highlighting it. Because it's not just to have the observation of self, it's really giving permission to really be. You were saying that in the beginning, that it's we tend to pop out or don't want to come into contact with some of this, and it is really key for us to develop self-awareness and self-compassion, and in the bigger goal of connecting with self and connecting with others.

I didn't say this, and I should have. The whole mentalizing thing, when you mentalize, it sounds like it's a cognitive thing, a thinking thing. It's not. I mean, it is, and… So to really get where someone is coming from, you need to do it from your head and your heart. So you need to hold in your mind and in your heart what's happening in you, if you're mentalizing yourself, or in mind and heart, what's happening in the other. Otherwise, that's not full mentalizing, and you will get stuck. 

Yeah, wonderful. Well, I'm grateful that you have a workbook that allows people to get the support and the guidance to really unpack and workshop this. So Leslie, can you tell us a little bit about this workbook? 

Absolutely. So this workbook, The Insecure in Love Workbook, is actually based on the original book, which is Insecure in Love. So that was my original book. Then in between them, there was a book, Bouncing Back from Rejection. During Bouncing Back from Rejection was when I developed STEAM. STEAM is not in Insecure in Love. So what you get with the workbook is the information and the ideas about attachment and insecurity and romantic relationships. Although, just keep in mind it also applies to all other relationships too, even though we're talking about romantic ones. So it includes that. But it also is structured with STEAM, so that there are exercises. So the book is broken down in explaining and helping you work through attachment and what your attachment style might be, preparing yourself to work on this. I have a chapter, I think it's Preparing to Heal, or something like that. So there's some things you can do to help yourself get ready for this. Then a chapter for each of the domains of awareness in STEAM. So it gives you exercises to explore each of those. Then it pulls it together at the end. Then also talks a little bit about in relationships, what are you looking for and how can you help yourself there? It brings it all together. 

And I personally really like talking with people, so I have a YouTube channel. And in the book, I have references to different videos that fit with what's in the book. Even if you don't have the book, if you go to my YouTube channel, I have a playlist, The Insecure in Love Workbook playlist, as well as other playlists and videos. They're all like three-minute videos, so they're brief things, but they can help you too. So that's it. That's the package, along with my blogs. I blog a couple of things, so there's a lot there. If people are interested, this is my real self-promotion piece. If people are interested, they can go to my website, which is DrBecker-Phelps.com.

Wonderful. And what might they find on your website?

Oh, they find all kinds of stuff. So I've got access to all the different things I just said, like there'll be references to the videos and the blogs. I have my Authentically You blog there. There's worksheets there, there's downloads from the different books.

So, so much.

When I show what I'm doing or I share with people, they're like, you just keep producing content. I'm like, yeah, I have a lot of years of content. Because I want to share with people, this stuff. It's accessible, things people can do to help themselves and to feel better. And why shouldn't they be able to do that? So if you're interested, it's all there, it's a lot of free stuff. You can sign up for my newsletter, so I send that out with each of the different videos and articles and all that too.

Wonderful! Well, I will make sure to have a link for your book, as well as your YouTube, your website, and just all the generosity that you've shared through all the content. I really appreciate what you've shared here with us today. Thank you so, so much.

Thank you. And thank you for being such a good interviewer, I appreciate it.

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