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Navigating the complex terrain of romantic relationships can often feel like walking through a maze with no clear exit in sight. Fear, disguised as stress or anger, can become an invisible barrier that hampers our ability to foster intimate connections and develop relational skills. But what if we understood our deepest fears, attachment styles, and the ways we can reclaim our emotional maturity and personal empowerment within our relationships? Imagine transforming stress and conflict into opportunities for deeper connection and understanding.

In this episode, we delve deeply into the complexities of attachment styles and their impact on relationships. Discover how different attachment styles manifest fear and the importance of recognizing these patterns in both yourself and your partner. We discuss practical strategies for managing negative thoughts, the role of nonverbal communication, and the power of physical touch in creating a secure bond. Furthermore, understand how emotional regulation, personal empowerment, and vulnerability can transform relationship dynamics.

Charisse Cooke, an attachment-based psychotherapist and author, brings over twenty years of experience in relationship dynamics. With 7000+ clinical hours, including roles in three clinical facilities and private practice in London, she specializes in understanding relationship patterns. Rooted in adult attachment theory, her compassionate approach aims to transform relational dynamics. Through online courses and social media, Charisse educates on fostering secure, authentic connections, empowering individuals to mend relationships, and building emotional resilience.

In this episode

6:00 From fascination to practice: Charisse Cooke’s journey in understanding relationships.

8:55 The power of embracing acceptance and curiosity in relationships rather than immediately viewing unexpected situations as problems.

11:55 Balancing active participation and surrender in relationships.

16:08 Navigating fear and control in committed relationships.

22:03 Strategies for avoidant attachments and building secure bonds.

35:48 Cultivating emotional resilience: Balancing immediate and long-term regulation strategies.

Your Check List of Actions to Take

• Ensure you fully listen to your partner's perspective without interrupting and reflect back on what you hear to show understanding.
• Take the responsibility to start important conversations, especially if you notice an issue, rather than waiting for your partner to bring it up.
• Express your thoughts and feelings using “I” statements to minimize blame and emphasize personal responsibility in conflicts.
• Create a visual representation of your relationship's highs and lows using a quadrant model to enhance awareness and understanding of your emotional states.
• Regularly review and discuss previous decisions with your partner to ensure both perspectives are still aligned and to make necessary adjustments.
• Agree on a higher intention or common goal for your relationship to guide decision-making and maintain focus during conflicts.
• Share the responsibility of being the visionary in the relationship by taking turns in decision-making and planning.
• Make a conscious effort to speak with love and listen with compassion, even during disagreements, to foster a supportive and nurturing environment.

Mentioned

10 New Behaviours That Will Transform Your Relationship in Under 10 Weeks (course link)

ERP 410: What Are the Signs of Emotional Immaturity in Relationship?

Shifting Criticism For Connected Communication

Connect with Charisse Cooke

Websites: charissecooke.com

X: twitter.com/CharisseCooke3

YouTube: youtube.com/channel/UCsTpiVcJCs65GYnITSkSAbQ?

Instagram: instagram.com/charissecooke

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/charisse-cooke-08157845

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

About Today's Show

Charisse, thank you for joining us. It's really a pleasure to have you.

It's such a joy to be here with you, because I know that we have lots in common and a lot of shared ideas. So it's going to be great to be talking and breaking some stuff down.

Yes. One of our shared similarities is our love of the attachment framework, and I know you're going to be speaking from that. But before we dive into our topic, I know we had just discussed focusing on emotional regulation and emotional resilience. I think people would be very interested in your perspective and just how to access some of this. 

What would you like people to know about you and where you're coming from, how you got interested in supporting people in this way?

Well, I think I want people to know that I believe that relationships are a mystery to all of us. They're very, very challenging, and they're also really fascinating. If we can shift away from the worry and the crisis of relationships, they can actually be these incredibly fascinating things to learn about ourselves and our partners and the people that we care about. I guess that's where I always come from, because I've always been fascinated by people. In my undergraduate degree, I studied both psychology and English literature. I feel like both really actually sang beautifully together, because it was all about characters and people and why people do what they do, and noticing human behaviors. I guess, for me, I am a little bit old school in that I believe that our work is a bit of an art. There is a lot of science, but there's also an art to it—there's an art to love, and there's an art to relationships. So my hope is to really inspire people to be very creative in their love lives, and to try to develop the artfulness in how they relate.

Thank you for just speaking into why it's such a big focus and orientation for you. Because I do agree, when we can get into our logical mind and really try to approach this strategically and have good outcomes, not that any of that is problematic, and we can lose sight. We can kind of treat it as a problem, something to be solved. Or even look at it through a static view, when really it's quite dynamic—you have two individuals that are evolving and growing, you have the relational dance and dynamic that's not static either. So to approach it from this real wonderment, if I hear, and this art that allows for the mystery to be revealed and continually revealed. Am I hearing you? 

Yes, absolutely. Inviting exploration and curiosity and passion, and it's all kind of okay, it's a great permission-giver, I think, if we're creating something versus trying to fix something. As you say, that's a really big shift I think we need to make in our relationships. 

I want to ask a question about that, and I just also want to underscore what you said about just this permission-giving. Because if, perhaps, my partner says or does something that I wasn't necessarily looking for, wanting, or expecting, that can feel quite confronting and challenging at times. If I make it a problem in my mind, and the questions or the focus is: why did he say that, or why is this happening to me, or this is bad, or this is wrong. So what you're really saying is giving permission and really being curious, and the orientation of that perhaps invites something entirely different. Like: Oh, that's interesting, I wasn't expecting that. Let me wonder about this for a second, what might be going on here that I wasn't anticipating, or what might be involved in this. 

I reference my relationship with my husband, and there are times where—I was talking to a client just weeks ago—that we've known each other and been in intimate relationship for 18 years, as partners. There's still things that I'm like: Oh, I get it on a deeper level! I've known layers, but to have a deeper understanding. It's just so helpful to give room. Because I don't think if I was asking or being curious, I would even be able to access that new understanding. 

Yes. I think, dare I say it, that as women, we can be very keen on making our relationships a certain way and wanting certain things. We can absolutely get lost in problem-solving, or controlling, or wanting things very specifically. I recognize that in my own self, in my own relationship, which is a similar length of time as you. I remember, years ago, an amazing mentor of mine, and this became a bit of a catchphrase for me, which was: let your partner be who they are. It just spoke of a level of acceptance that was so at odds with even my career and my work of: Okay, let's work this out, let's figure this out. It's like, yes, we are doing that. But acceptance is an act of love. Acceptance is part of love. That was such a great intervention for me, in a way, because it really showed me that I could learn a lot about acceptance. Of course, there's that great paradox, isn't there, that the more we accept, the more change is welcomed in. Things just naturally, organically develop from that loving place of acceptance, rather than that unaccepting place of anger or frustrations. Yes, I totally relate to what you're describing.

Well, I can feel myself wanting to even respond to that. I imagine we could have a whole episode on just acceptance. One thing I will say, this was almost a year ago, my mother had sent me some infographic. This is actually a little bit of a difference my husband and I have. Ironically, it's a little bit gender stereotypically different. I think we have aspects of ourselves that are more masculine and feminine. I think every person has masculine and feminine traits. Anyway, in this particular quality, my husband, when it comes to approaching things, likes to feel the flow, likes to feel some surrender and see what emerges, where I very much want to workshop and be active and proactive and take initiation, and I feel like there's so much value in that. Really, either on its own can have a shadow. She sent this, it was almost like a Venn diagram of the overlap. Really, flow state is when we can allow for surrender or acceptance, and also have active participation. We can't just sit back and let life come to us, obviously. It doesn't work like that. And we can't force or push only either. So it is quite a balance, and I think that's the art, too, that perhaps you were referring to.

That's brilliant. 

Yeah, I wanted to ask about the slow love. Do you want to say anything about what you were referring to, for people who might not know what you mean?

I think that's been one of my very important life lessons. I think once we've got to that point where we've made the decision: this is my person, and I commit to this person. It doesn't have to be in marriage. But once we've got through that awful “should I/shan't I” phase, if we have chosen someone and we love them, I feel that's when the real work begins, in a way. Because the work of love needs to kind of start, and things that are very out of fashion now, like acceptance and grace and curiosity and care. Admiration of one another is something else I always encourage. Because we are so quick to find fault, and we're very fearful. I talk about this in my book now, that we spend more time being in fear than we do being in love. 

There's so much fear in our relationships now, that this isn't right, this need is not getting met, this happened, they said that, they didn't do that. It's all coming from this very fearful place of lack and deprivation, which so many of us come from. So it's so incredibly understandable. However, it makes it very difficult for love to really grow under that level of hyper-focus and criticalness and constraints, and actually, often some really quite rigid expectations and rules and regulations. I mean, boundaries are a must in relationships in limits, but we can also lose our way with that a little bit and become incredibly unloving. So I really just encourage people, if you've made the decision to love this person, let's just relax and begin this process of learning to love each other. That's where a lot of emotional regulation and resilience has to come in to help us to allow ourselves to go slowly.

Yes. It reminds me of one of the terms that I used in my dissertation, and the way I was framing it is almost relationship as a container, when we do really commit, that it offers this containment that we're not pivoting away. I mean, look, there are people who are married, and so legally are in a deep commitment, but maybe emotionally are still not fully in; they've somehow got their exit or their door is open for the exit. So emotionally, on all the levels here, when we can really enter into that commitment with another, that that's where the work begins. Then our tendencies will emerge, which for some, it might be, this is how I know how to feel safe. What you're saying is understandable, makes perfect sense, it sometimes might even relate to previous injury or trauma. And that to control the relationship or another isn't going to be life-giving. What would you say?

Yeah, absolutely. Because it is an interesting thing. If we were to get what we wanted, which is to be in control and for someone to do what we wanted. It's an interesting thing to question, what is it that we want? Because often we're doing things that are in direct conflict with what we want, which is just to have a relaxed, easy time. That's what I think most of us want. But the behaviors that we do that come from our own trauma, come from our own wounding, I think this is the level of self-awareness we all have to strive for. 

It's a horrific tragedy, I'm sure you see this in your work, that often, our behavior isn't actually always in our best interest, even though we are so believing that it is.

Or well-intended. Our intentions are really for the highest, and we are not necessarily fully in touch with the result or what gets transpired when we approach things in a certain way. I was with a girlfriend, and we were having a little bit of a getaway, and I overheard some women talking in the locker room area. They were talking about spontaneity and magic that might happen. One was saying, I want to feel more magic, I want to feel more like unexpected goodness type of thing. I think that type of thing comes when we do surrender, or we do soften and we do allow. When I think about what I want, I want my partner to be happy and to be a full expression of who he is, and I want us to continue to be in the mystery of our relating. That does not come from control, at all. But I can also feel the tenderness here, emotionally, that that can be scary to your point. That there's fear here, or I might feel rattled or vulnerable, or they might even call it approaching a terror barrier of the unknown. So how do you talk to us here about fear, and how you help people manage this?

Well, I think we need to understand, what do we do when we're frightened? Because often, we don't always realize that we're frightened. We can feel stressed quite easily, or we can feel angry. It's a very quick, easy, go-to emotion: anger. Exploring that, we can realize: Oh actually, I'm scared of something. I'm scared of being let down, or I'm scared I've made the wrong choice, or I'm scared you're not going to love me enough, or I'm scared you're going to take over my life, and that is going to be too much for me. There is a lot that we need to understand is within us in terms of fear. 

I always encourage my clients to know their fears and to know themselves well enough to know their fears. Because they masquerade, I think, as very justifiable and really reasonable reasons why. We have this when girlfriends chat together, or guys get together, or just when friends get together. You hear each side of the story, and it sounds really reasonable and plausible, doesn't it? Then you listen to the other side, it's like: Oh wow, that's really plausible too. You realize that we're obviously all coming from our own perspective. So I think recognizing, if we look at it through the attachment lens, how we show fear when we're maybe feeling a bit anxiously attached, and how we're showing fear when we're avoidantly attached, looks very, very different. 

I think maybe for those of us, when we're in an anxious process, we can maybe get a bit more in touch with the fear and be like: I am scared, and I'm scared of this, or this has happened before. But what's, I think, quite intriguing, is when we're in our avoidance process, fear is really hidden behind quite a lot of defense, which keeps us safe. So when we're feeling a bit unimpressed, or actually a bit put off, or not really interested, or needing space, or whatever, it's very difficult for us to know that underneath that is actually some fear. There's fear there, and that is directly impacting my behavior, it's directly impacting how I think, and obviously it's going to be impacting how we relate and the relationships that we can have. 

Well, a follow-up question there is, what would you encourage, or how do you work with someone who is in that avoidant process to even identify the fear?

Well, I think ort of the ‘in’ is realizing that what they're craving, and what we all kind of crave, which is so relational, is safety. When I'm in my avoidant process and I want time on my own, or everyone in the world is an idiot, and all these things and beliefs are happening.

Not to be trusted.

Yeah, don't tell anyone anything, and don't let them in. There is a need for me to find safety, and I know myself well enough to know that I do just need a little bit of time. But I also do something really, really important, which is, I don't believe everything. I think I can recognize my well-worn road, avoidant road, or my anxious road, or my dismissive-avoidant road, whatever road I'm on. I can really recognize the narrative for me around that, and when I recognize that, I really bring compassion for myself, and I really try to calm myself down mentally. Because it's much more of a mental process than an emotional process at times, I think, when we're avoidant, when we're anxious. 

When I'm anxious, it's much more of an emotional-physical response. When I'm in my avoidant, I also recognize that this is very in my head, it's very in my thinking. I kind of cut myself off a little bit. I'm in my thoughts, and my thoughts are very negative. So I know, okay, be careful. You're thinking these thoughts. You know these thoughts. Just take the edge off. Don't make them quite so extreme, just bring them back. And you know, you need time, you need space. Then I will go out, and then I really want to connect with people again. 

This is a part of emotional regulation that a lot of people don't appreciate, and certainly, people, when we're in our avoidant process, don't appreciate. Because the emotional shutting down that is part of avoidance, is our coping strategy in those moments. When actually, we need to emotionally regulate better so we can bring our emotions back online, and then we're better able to actually meet our needs. Because we probably want to be taken into account, or want to be heard in some way, or felt disrespected, or whatever it might be. As long as we're cut off from that, we can't ever really address it.

Well, I recognize, as you're describing this process, that it can be negatively reinforce self-perpetuating, I'll say, that there's almost this downward spiral if we aren't in a position to recognize: Oh hello, protective part. Just wanting me to feel safe, but also has quite a edge too, the voice, and distancing. That if we're not able to recognize that protection or that need for safety, then we can feel really justified to the thinking, and then remove ourselves and somewhat isolate. Then in that negative thinking process, it can feel quite lonely, and there can be a lot of pain associated with that. So I think, as you're saying, the entry point, if we can recognize that need for safety and the protective part that wants to push away danger, that if there is a place of safety that we can access. 

Now I imagine, and I wonder what you would say, that it's not going to be this open arms, hold me. That it's going to be able to connect on a super intimate level. It might just be like, can we be in the same room, or can we sit next together, can we take a walk. Help me, my sense is, a lot of times in the avoidant process, it needs to be a little bit of a slower easing into connection. What would you say?

That's an interesting one, isn't it? Because it is individual, and I think it all depends on the extremes. Because if we are deeply concerned, or we feel backed into a corner, or all these sort of phrases that as avoidants we will use, the more extreme our reaction, the more extreme what our needs in that moment will be and what our need for safety will look like.

But something that I have noticed when I'm working, particularly when I'm working with couples, and one identifies quite strongly with being anxiously attached and the other being avoidantly attached, even though I think we can be very fluid with it all. But when we're in that dance and when things are happening, I think there's something interesting that does keep coming up, which is, both parties don't want to feel abandoned. But how they will feel abandoned is going to be very, very, very different. So something that I really encourage, often when we are avoidant, it's the exhausting, emotional messiness, I call it, that's just too much for us in those moments. But physical touch feels really important. This is when we're angrily holding one another's hands on the sofa, or in the car, and we're just going to hold hands without any kind of conversation or anything like that. But there is this point of: we are connected. 

So I agree with you. I think doing things like going for a walk or going for a drive is really, really useful. But I also think a conversation, when we're not triggered, around what do you need in those moments, and what don't you need, can feel really loving. Because we can then say, look, I just don't need you to be talking. I know it's important and what you have to say matters. But please, I just need half an hour, and then we can come at this again. But then I don't want you angry in the next room, because then it's going to take me longer. We can have some difficult conversations. Because what comes out of those conversations that I see in my sessions is quite surprising. I will encourage as a challenge. I'll say, can you just go to your bedroom, get into bed and hold each other? You don't do anything. You don't say anything. But you get into bed and you hold each other. That can feel really uncomfortable, because we want certain things in that moment. But that kind of real animal connection will regulate both people, and for me, that's a beautiful move into intimacy.

I love that. I do think, just to feel into what you're describing, with lower stimulus, like maybe lights turned down and the comfort of a bed. Not necessarily, it could be side by side, or it could be to whatever level of that touch that feels comfortable, or that real embrace. I don't know, some people that are maybe more of the anxious might want to have make-up sex or be super active. I do think there's something you're describing of just being together, just this physiological, non-verbal posture of: we're present, and we're with each other. That can convey such security and solid foundation, despite whatever is not yet resolved. 

That's it. Because we can there can be a lot of words, so many words and speaking. Of course, that's an amazing way of connecting, and it's an amazing way of sharing. 

That's why I do encourage it, because I do think it is challenging, when we're feeling anxious, and we do just want to talk to talk, and arrive at something that we think is going to make us feel better, and maybe it will. But what the body really needs is something very young in us often, that actually just requires a soothing, that the body can do so much more effectively than our anxious brains, kind of agitating away. I want to go straight to the nervous system, straight to the primate, and be like: Okay, I am here, and this is us, and we may not agree. I don't know, it just bypasses a lot of the noise that I think comes with our wounding and our worries and our insecurities. So I really encourage that, because it's challenging for us, because that's real closeness. It requires, actually, quite a bit of vulnerability to just be with one another and hold each other, and remember that you are in each other's lives, and hold two hearts together, etc.

Yes. I think the thing I'm feeling for some that might be like: Argh, I don't know that I could do that! It sometimes feels as though they have to stick to the upset to demonstrate I'm not okay with that. When we can say I'm not okay with that, and I still love you, or we're still in a process. We don't agree, as you just said, and we love each other. Can we just be? Then what can happen from there, that's where we can feel the art and the acceptance and the creativity, that something might emerge out of that state that we would have never been able to feel or even access had we not just softened into this regulation place.

I love that. That goes back to what we were saying earlier as well about being slow. Because there's something sad about many of us, myself included, where we go straight to crisis. We're straight into: This is a big, big problem that needs to be resolved! As opposed to, welcome to life in relationships, this is going to happen endlessly. The kind of keeping ourselves out of crisis is great. I love what you've just said about how it may not be resolved, it may not be talked through, and that's okay. Because there's going to be a long conversation that you have with your partner over your lifetime or over the next week or over the next month, where you can come back to all of this and share and explore, and laugh or be angry, or whatever is necessary. It's often in that moment when we are so dysregulated that I really encourage us. What do we say in psychotherapy? 

So it's in these moments when we just have so much to say and whatever, that's when we're dysregulated, and unfortunately, that's not going to be constructive. Going slowly means in the moment, but it also means over time, looking at all the problems in your relationship, which will be long lasting and inspire many, hopefully, beautiful conversations that will take time. 

I'll say for myself, in that anxious process, when I've done several iterations of what you're describing, I now trust that we will have time to talk, we will circle back, what I have to say is important. The quality of safety in the environment, or just that presence and acceptance of each other in the conflict, the bonding there, I feel like that provides me a trust. It provides us a trust that there's a love and a foundation that we can prioritize in the midst of the conflict.

But what you've just described is secure attachment. When we are anxious, when we're avoidant, and that's okay, because that's how we are in times of stress. The more we can bring the wisdom and the trust of when we are not in stress, when we are feeling secure with our loves. That's the impact that love can have on us, is that, yes, this terrible thing has happened, and I trust this person, and I am secure in how this person feels about me, cares about me, respects me. So whilst this example might not fit with that, the bigger picture is that they do, and I trust that, and I feel that, and my body knows that. That's what we're all aspiring to feel like. I mean, it's such a relief to let go of that constant hyper-vigilance of waiting to be disappointed, waiting to be let down, waiting to be annoyed by this person. As opposed to just saying, it's okay, you've chosen a good one, and you are loved. That security is something that is so precious.

Yes, what a gift to be able to offer that good will and grace, as you said, to one's person! Then also to feel it on the receiving end, that you're not just suspect immediately. Right?

That's right.

So you're giving a lot of voice to holding hands, being in physical contact, also our physical posture, our demeanor towards one another, and just recognizing what kind of stance we're holding physiologically. Can we access: I love this person, we're in conflict, we are working it out, or we'll work it out. Can we generate that goodwill and that acceptance? So there's a lot here. Physically, it could be eye contact, softening of the eyes, softening of the voice. Is there anything else you want to say? Because this might be hard for someone who is really activated, but it also has a positive effect when we can breathe a little more deeply, we can soften the eyes. Again, it's interesting. Not only is it for the environment of the relationship, also supportive to our partner, but it also helps us change our physiological state. Is that right? 

Absolutely. Because I think the emotional regulation can encompass so much. It can be very physical stuff—breathing, visualization, calming ourselves. I think that's one of the most important tools for us to learn is, how do I soothe myself in difficult moments? Because in time, and again, this is a slow art of relationships, I believe we can teach one another to come in and help to soothe us, to co-regulate with us. But that is almost like an end point, and we want that at the starting point of: I need some all-powerful person to come in and soothe me and calm me and make everything okay. That's our responsibility, as much as we possibly can, is to try to care for ourselves in such a way that we can show up for our relationships, as adults as we can be, and as loving as we can be, so we can create what we want. That's why it's such a big thing. 

So much of therapy work is about emotionally maturing ourselves and looking after ourselves to now be in relationship in a more mature way, and also allowing our relationships to heal us, which I believe they 100% have the capacity to do. 

It's a beautiful act of our own love, again, more love, to empower ourselves as much as we can in our relationship. So we can arrive in our relationships with things that I really think are important, like dignity and composure and an ability to listen. These things are the work of adult relationships, and that's a starting point. Then we have a real chance of healing. But we're not going to be rescued, and we're not going to rescue. But we can really support and be there. That is a really exciting, and actually, a much more deeply challenging thing to do, and will create the most solid relationship. It'll create a beautiful, beautiful partnership. 

Thank you for really speaking to the nuance between what you're describing in this sense of rescuing versus healing, and when one is taking responsibility and taking that ownership, the power of relating in that secure functioning and how healing that is. The arc of, or not even the arc, but just the learning of being able to be in this practice, I think it provides the muscle-building, if you will, of emotional resilience. You're talking about emotional maturity. I can recognize in my earlier phases—and sometimes, if I'm still really triggered, I might resort to this—I would pen to paper, just like, I need to get it all out and just get to that place. Then once I can feel some organization or understand what's deeper, sometimes I'll go for a walk and need to get out that discharge. Sometimes, just even slowing down my voice, or now I might turn towards meditation or yoga. There's various things that I know can help that little break, maybe 10- or 15-minute break, just to get a little calmer so I can find my ground. 

Is there anything you want to speak to, just far as how to start recognizing? Because I think people have more ways that they regulate that they just don't know that they do. I remember reading a book, and it was describing what we might call as maybe not super adaptive behaviors. But procrastination is regulation, there's certain ways in which even maybe overeating is regulation. Even though these might have some side effects, for sure, that he is recognizing these are ways that we're trying to regulate. So is there anything you want to say just to help people get some understanding? 

I think there's definitely something to be said about short-term emotional regulation skills that are a little bit more like in the emergency, SOS, let's do something straight away. Then there's also maintenance emotional regulation. The SOS is like, we are dysregulated, we're triggered, we're in dangerous territory here. This is when we're going to argue, we're going to have high conflict, we're going to cause problems, we're going to make things worse, we're going to say things we regret, we're going to behave in ways that we're going to regret later or feel cringe about. So this is really when we have to recognize: Oh okay, I've lost my way a little bit. Emergency, emergency! Let's do something to calm ourselves down. Then the other ones are obviously like, what can I do every day to just help me have a regulated nervous system that can withstand the inevitable ups and downs of life and relationships, that's not so easily triggerable and ready to go at any moment? So these two things are really important. 

As you say, the SOS ones can be very like, distract yourself, do something, listen to a song. One of my colleagues says, masturbate. There are all sorts of things. Do something creative. Go for a run. Write out all your evil, angry thoughts on a piece of paper. Get it all out. Go punch a pillow. Have something to eat. Have a nap, if you can. All these things are really good in the moment, and we should have five or six that we know just work for us. It could be calling, something I do is I call my best friend. I say, I just need to rant. She's like, okay, give it to me. Then I just go for it, and there's no consequence to that. But whatever it is, we should have things in our back pocket that we know that we can use, that can slowly calm us down and where something else can come in. 

Then the other one is already an important practice. This is more the sort of emotional maturing, and actually it's setting in. We're kind of embedding this now, where this is how we roll most of the time, and it's really exciting. We've got to maintain that somehow. Because some of us, many people I work with, live from energy drink to energy drink, from coffee to coffee, busy, partying, working hard, playing hard, not sleeping very well, eating poorly, having fights with everyone at work, and then going home and having fights with everyone at home. It's like, okay, we really need to look at this. Everything in your life is really ready to go, ready to rumble at any moment. So what can we bring in to have a nervous system that's really supported and held. So I think having all these things. That would be more your meditation and walking, visualizing, imagining your ideal self, knowing your cognitions, really challenging your thoughts, and CBT can come in about negative thinking. I think these two things together can actually change the trajectory of our lives and relationships enormously.

No kidding! Build resilience, also even change our neuroplasticity. It can change so, so much. Well, this is beautiful. Thank you so much. I love just hearing your articulation and how you're weaving all this together and helping people organize. How do people get in touch with what you're teaching and what you're offering?

Thank you. Well, I spend a lot of time posting teachings on Instagram. Every day, I'm encouraging people, challenging people, with reminders about what it is that we need to be doing in our relationships. I've also got a website with loads of free teachings on, that's CharisseCooke.com. My Instagram is @CharisseCooke. I've also just released a book called The Attachment Solution, which is all about the solution for us to be looking at where we're coming from in terms of our attachments, and really practical ways of becoming more secure and relating, that really comes from a place of love rather than fear. I'm just online, and you can find me online.

Wonderful! I'll make sure to have the link to your Instagram channel, so people can access all of your reminders and encouragements. As well as your website, so people can find your free teachings, and also find your book. I'll put the book link too. Then, are you offering courses or groups or anything on your website?

Yes, I am. Thank you. I've got a beautiful online course for people who really want to go in. I called it 10 New Behaviors. It's behaviors that every relationship needs to really be strong and solid and to thrive. So you can do it over 10 weeks or 10 days or whatever. But I have that, it's a more in-depth course. I'm also going to be starting some group therapy online courses, where I will work with 20 to 30 people and do a mini lecture, and then people can come in and join, and we can work together more in-person in that way. Not in-person, because it's online, but directly. I will be part of the process.

Nice, wonderful! I'll make sure to have all of that on today's show notes. Thank you, Charisse, it's been a really wonderful time talking with you here today. 

Thank you, Dr. Jessica. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you.

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