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Are you truly being yourself, or are you performing roles shaped by survival mechanisms and societal expectations? This thought-provoking question invites us to pause and reflect on our authenticity, encouraging a journey toward discovering our true selves and aligning our actions with our intrinsic purpose, not just external achievements.

In this episode, we explore the journey to discovering one’s authentic self and aligning actions with that inner truth. We delve into the difference between traditional relationships, which may be rooted in outdated values, and spiritual relationships that encourage personal growth and genuine emotional expression. By emphasizing self-talk, introspection, and breaking free from past experiences, this conversation aims to guide listeners toward more fulfilled, purposeful living and deep, meaningful connections.

As a life and relationship coach since 1995, Dr. Ray Doktor has empowered over 6,000 clients to break through limiting beliefs and overcome life's challenges, significantly enhancing their confidence, self-trust, and happiness. Holding a doctorate in clinical psychology, a master's in counseling psychology, and a bachelor's in human behavior, Dr. Ray combines his extensive expertise with advanced techniques like hypnotherapy, EMDR, NLP, and ancient practices such as qigong and meditation to offer a holistic approach to mental well-being.

In this episode

08:27 Discovering authenticity: Aligning actions with true self. 

12:15 The impact of survival mechanisms on personal and relational satisfaction. 

18:16 Embracing spiritual relationships for sustainable personal growth. 

21:01 Healing childhood patterns to enhance relationship dynamics. 

23:28 Defining and nurturing a spiritual partnership. 

27:47 Balancing masculine and feminine energies within relationships. 

31:37 Overcoming gender role limitations in modern relationships. 

34:31 Integrating spiritual beliefs into everyday life and relationships. 

37:57 The importance of trust and vulnerability in fostering emotional intimacy. 

41:23 Techniques for developing deeper connection and self-awareness. 

44:19 Moving beyond traditional norms to achieve relational fulfillment. 

47:59 Understanding one’s needs and expectations in a relationship. 

50:45 Authentic relating games: Tools for self-discovery and emotional growth.

Your Check List of Actions to Take

• Take regular moments to pause and reflect on whether your actions align with your true self or if you're playing roles influenced by survival mechanisms and cultural expectations.
• Be aware of and address people-pleasing tendencies formed in childhood, understanding they can lead to passive-aggressive behaviors and insincere interactions.
• Practice authentic communication by healing past emotional entanglements, fostering confidence and sincerity in your interactions.
• Shift focus from traditional relationship models to spiritual partnerships that prioritize authenticity, emotional expression, and personal growth.
• Regularly gather feedback from trusted friends to gain insights into your hidden beliefs and areas for personal development.
• Incorporate spiritual beliefs into your daily life to create a harmonious balance between personal growth and relational satisfaction.
• Maintain passion and vitality in relationships by ensuring time for adult play, self-care, and nurturing your individual interests.
• Practice intentional acts of kindness to enhance relational satisfaction and personal well-being, acknowledging the benefits extend to both the giver and receiver.

Mentioned

All It Takes Is One (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

The Seat of the Soul (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

ERP 277: How to Cultivate More ‘Authentic Relating’ in Relationship – An Interview with Sara Ness

The 31-Day Kindness Challenge (free guide) (pdf)

Connect with Dr. Ray Doktor

Websites: raydoktor.com

Facebook: facebook.com/raydoktor

YouTube: youtube.com/raydoktor

Instagram: instagram.com/drraydoktorcoaching

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

About this Episode

Ray, thank you for joining us today.

Thank you very much. I'm excited to be on your podcast.

Yes. I know we're going to be looking at long-lasting relationships, especially as it relates to holding the spiritual aspect of how that potentially can be a resource, for people that are looking at intimate connecting through a spiritual perspective. Where would you like to start as far as where you're coming from and what you want people to know about you and how this became a focus, whether or not it's just helping people in relationship in general, or this specific topic?

So I have been labeled a relationship coach. However, when I work with individuals or couples, it's always the relationship with ourselves, no matter what is presented to me as the problem. So a person might come to me and they're looking to fix their marriage, or they're looking to start dating again. That we're going to go deeper to understand if there are blocks in the way of achieving those goals. So originally, when I started working with clients, it was probably deeper stuff like PTSD, abuse, and everything else. But in time, I recognized the importance of how a person talks to him or herself. That kind of embarked on this journey of really being interested in working with people to be able to have new connection to themselves.

In fact, when I think about spirituality, I would rather say functional spirituality. Because it's one thing to say I am a Christian, or I follow this path. But how do you integrate it in your life? And when you approach relationships, are you coming from your heart? Is it holistic? How it does it serve you and others, and how can you contribute to your community? So for me, relationships are deep in my heart. Because if a person is happy, in a relationship or not, if their self-talk is positive, then we're going to have a more vibrant, happy planet. So for me, I help individuals, I help couples in different stages, to understand themselves and to achieve the goals that they want. I have worked with, believe it or not, over 6,000 clients. I've done a lot of sessions. It's fun for me still, particularly when I hear back like: Oh my God, things are changing. Not much changed out there, but how I feel about myself. Now I'm perceiving my relationships better. Now I'm communicating better with my husband. Now I feel more attractive. That always makes you feel good.

Wonderful. Well, I love that you're still so, so passionate. As you're talking, I'm like, I've never counted the amount of session hours. That would be interesting for me to do. But just for you to still feel so enlivened and enriched by supporting people in both really knowing who they are, and really giving some support to really looking at what gets in the way of their vitality and their wellbeing, more relationally, psychologically. And then also, what you're supporting in the way of functional spirituality. It's interesting, I haven't really articulated this, so I might fumble through it. But my husband and I are in the middle of a remodel. We had a friend recommend a friend from, I think it was college, longstanding friend, a friend of hers. And he is a contractor, so he was doing flooring and cabinetry.

He is a Seventh Day Adventist. I think his father was a minister. He's very, very religious and spiritual. But he did seem to have a little bit more universal openness to having dialogue about other philosophies. All this to say, at dinner, we were feeding him and he was staying, and he was talking about the devil in this contrast. It was interesting, my husband and I were talking the next day, he was like: Oh, I really wonder what that was and where he was going with that. One of the things that we were talking about is, I don't necessarily on this podcast talk about my spiritual perspective, but that when people don't know who they are or they feel lost in who their essence is, whatever path one follows, that there's a level of darkness there. I think it also fits with the psychology. You talked about traumas or what might interfere with one's ability to feel themselves, that interferes. So we were talking about how that could be a version of so-called “the devil.”

So I don't know if I'm hearing you correctly, that that's something that you're skilled at doing, is really helping people look at the things that are interfering with their being.

Well, so if a person is struggling with addiction, or that they're not doing well financially, or that they just seem to create problems wherever they are. If they were to always focus on their sadness or anger, and not see the results being applied outside of them, then in time, they're going to burn out or it's not going to crystallize in their psyche. As an example, if I were to see a personal trainer and I was extremely out of shape, and I could do very little, but I would be happy just to see myself lose 5 pounds, then 10 pounds. So what would make me feel even more excited is that I'm actually able to walk further. I want to see the result. So when I work with individuals as far as developing a better relationship with themselves, it's really important for them to see those results also with others.

So we can support clients with medication, we can support them with therapy, we can support them with all these things so they have a better sense of self. But for me, it's all about putting it into action and with that feedback. When we teach the client how to receive feedback in a positive way, such as see the contrast and learn and grow from that, they just keep getting better and better. So when I work with people and try to incorporate what I teach them, it's not really about my philosophy. It's whether or not it worked for you. Like, tell me what happened. So all of us, eventually, not all of us, but I would say majority of us get into relationships, and we don't even know why.

As an example, if a couple comes in and they're arguing, one of the things I might do, just say they're bickering, they're not able to really be in the heart and talk about what's important. I put them in a container where they put their backs up against each other, and I have them close their eyes and drop into their breath. And I say, I want you to imagine that there's a bomb, that was the launch, and it's going to be here in 10 minutes. What would you really want to say to your partner? Typically, it's: I'm sorry, I love you, please forgive me. Things like that. You'll see them start to cry often, and it just softens them. It relaxes the nervous system to get to what's most important. Then from there, we can have a conversation. It's not the past stories. Because we can't fix the past. We have to be in a present moment and create from where we are now.

So when I work with people, now that I have these people in a softer space, I might ask, why do you want to be in a relationship? The typical responses are: for companionship, someone to grow old with, someone to have fun with, for sex. For me, yes, those are things I desire also. But they're really, for me, basic. Those are all basic human needs. We can have a connection with a friend, but we might not have sex with that person. But if a person is surrounded by a lot of loving people, they feel connected and they have a healthy sexuality, they masturbate. They might not have an intimate relationship with someone else, but they're just really healthy and contained. They can thrive.

So in order for a person to thrive, particularly people who are listening to this who are not in a relationship, are seeking one, and they feel loneliness, it's this.

It's more like, most people are very outcome-driven, versus how does this relationship serve my soul? How does it serve my purpose? How does it serve my existence? When we solidify that within ourselves, then whether the relationship goes up and down, we don't get so desperate. We don't become codependent. We're able to recognize that there's this change, and we've got to co-create with our partner, we need to have a conversation. It may last, it may not, or it just might expand. But we have a strong sense of self, and most people don't have that. They're just repeating what they witness. They're just repeating what they've been taught. They're just repeating what they've seen in the movies. So when we start developing a more personal relationship with ourselves, which I would say is spiritual relationship with ourselves, then we're more purposeful in our actions and in our relationships.

Well, so Ray, I'm curious, as you're describing helping people have results and having things be actionable and that they get to experiment and test out, so that it's reinforcing. Whatever efforts or whatever you might be encouraging them to do that might be different than their normal tendencies, that is going to be reinforcing. Then there's also something you're saying about the ability to know self, to be able to have that inner awareness and attunement that, as you're saying, we don't always focus on. We're so outwardly-focused. So how do you help people go from the result they're seeking towards this more purpose and passion-driven life or orientation?

I'll give you a visceral example. I used to facilitate authentic relating games in Los Angeles. Have you participated before?

I've interviewed one of the founders, and I understand. I've done things similar, but I have not done that actual protocol.

So this would be an experience where people would come to a workshop, and there would be probably a specific topic or outcome. But we would ask questions such as, a great question that I ask when I meet people, if I think I'm gonna be in a relationship with them, whether it's a intimate relationship or a business relationship, are these three questions. Number one is, what are you like when you're in your shit? How do I know when you're in your shit, and how do I support you when you are in your shit? Because it's really easy, I feel, to love people and like people. But we all have challenges. And we don't want, when we become those, say, darker versions or our ego, to lean our relationship or break up with our partner, or be the teenage version of ourselves that says something and just completely self-sabotage us. So we want to be really present. So those are some of the questions that I want to know.

But in this container that I was talking about, there's a moment when a person asks a question such as, if I were to put all your exes in the same room, what would they say are your greatest strengths and your weaknesses? It's a really powerful question. Because hopefully, the person you're going to ask these questions with has done some introspection, has done some self-discovery, and they're able to respond and not take themselves so seriously. Because I have my shadows. My shadow is still impatience, so there's that. But there's a moment, and you'll see often, where the person who is about to respond will take a pause, and they move, and they talk a certain way, and I'll stop them. I will stop them, and I will say, it's a surprise move.

I say, look at the person you're becoming right now, who is that? Are you pretending to do something? Are you wanting this person to like you? Are you acting? Are you performing? Who is that? Just in that pause, they catch their personality, they catch their ego. I say, why are you acting? What would it be like to be authentic? Feel into that. So just in that little experience, there's this pause through the breath awareness. They notice the personality, which might be formed through survival mechanisms and culture and other things. But then there's this pause of recognizing: Oh, maybe this isn't who I am. Then it's a journey of discovering who am I authentically. Who's my authentic self? When we get to understanding what our authentic self is, not what we've been programmed to be, or what we witness through our culture or parents, then everything you do starts aligning to that. Then that becomes your purpose: to remain as authentic as you can. And to recognize, whether it's at work or with your partner or anything you're doing, to show up as best as you can, take personal responsibility, and learn from each challenge.

For me, I don't believe people show up and their purpose is just to be a famous singer, or their purpose is to be a famous coach. I believe that a purpose is really more connected to your existence, why I am here. Most people, I feel, who are lost, don't know why. So they cling to relationships, they become codependent, or they jump from job to job trying to find themselves. But they don't know that, it's just somehow they're never satisfied. So until we know who we really are, we might never feel satisfied. We don't think it's the right man or the right woman. But what it is, is that there's this inner disconnect within ourselves. Because we're still performing, we're still acting, we're still in survival mode. We don't know who we really are.

Right. This hearkens back to what you were saying about addiction or certain ways that we perhaps numb or manage how we learn to cope in different parts of ourselves. So, to my question, it sounds like you're saying part of what you make actionable or you give people a challenge around is giving them room and space to access what is authentic, which is, in its very essence, giving them an experience of what is more authentic. That's going to be directly tied to what they're meant to do, or their passion or purpose. Is that right?

Well, you probably have experienced a lot of people-pleasers, correct? So people-pleasing is a tendency to make other people happy, or make other people's happiness your business. But if you were to find out why they do that, often what might come up is that I'm afraid I won't be liked. Then if things go wrong, I'm afraid they'll be my fault. They'll go back to their childhood and say, my mom was never happy, and so I just became a cheerleader to cheer her up. My dad was very mean towards her and so forth. But that people-pleasing behavior is just a way for that person to survive in that home. It was a way to maybe not be blamed or yelled at. It was also to create maybe a little bit of peace.

But what if you're out there and that's not who you really are, and you're doing this? Well, other people are going to feel like it's kind of awkward. It's like, stop, enough! Or there's an agenda. It doesn't feel sincere. Oftentimes, people-pleasers, if there's not reciprocation, they get bothered. You see some passive aggressive tendencies come out of them. So that's an example. So a lot of times when people are dating, and they get triggered, what's coming out of them when they're triggered? That's a good sign that whatever that is, that's what needs to be healed. That part of yourself might be entangled in your personality, and if you were to heal that, you could become more relaxed. On the spot, you can communicate from a place of confidence by even saying, I just don't know. You could be in front of a crowd, and there's a lot of cameras on you and it's on a big screen, and your armpits are sweating, and you can see that big spot. You might say, I guess I'm really excited, and everyone laughs and cheers you on.

Yes, and it makes visible, the vulnerability, and the real sincerity and the authenticity, which is connecting, which does cultivate this more deeper intimacy, instead of the tendency to protect or hide or cover up or even be unconscious to. So I can see one of the questions that your team had sent was, what's the difference between a traditional relationship versus a more spiritual one? And I can see exactly how this fits with that question. Before I speak into it, because I have my own words, I would love to hear your words on this.

Well, yes, I'm glad you are drawing that connection. Because a traditional marriage might be based off of values that are not yours anymore. A traditional marriage might be based in gender roles in which you're more fluid. So how does that work for you? Traditional might be where you don't talk about the negative things and you just try to focus on the positive. After all, we have a home, the bills are paid, what is there to complain about? The list goes on. I feel that is the foundation to hold the container for the relationship to experience more emotions and authenticity. But I hear this more often with women than men, and in fact I'm working with a couple right now, where he's a hard worker, but he's not really present with her.

He's really good with the kids, but he doesn't look at her in a sexual passionate way. He's disconnected, and she is doing the work. She has grown to where she's not that attracted to him anymore, and we're working on this. But it's not like there was anything fundamentally wrong with him. She just wants more.

The typical, I like to say 1950s man, might say: what now, woman? You've got everything! I think the feminine or women, they yearn for growth and expansion. If you have your partner figured out every day, I think you're going to get bored. I think if there's no arguing sometimes, then maybe one person doesn't belong there. The only way that we grow is by different ideas and so forth. So spiritual relationship encompasses that space to be authentic, to show emotions, to grow spiritually. Sure, you might have a great sex life. But hey, let's try maybe tantra and blindfolding each other, or whatever. Like, it's just more expanded, doesn't mean it's better. But I would say, typically, it becomes more sustainable.

Because as a modern relationship coach, we're not where we were before. Even myself, I want to experience so much more. I'm a parent. But I'm not a typical parent who, say, has allowed myself to get out of shape. I want to drive a van, nothing wrong with a van. I still have a lot of fire in me. So my partner, she's close to my age also, we're very active. We notice that when we're around other couples, a lot of them lack self-care. The couples just say: Ah, when you have children, this is just what happens. Really? No, there's a choice.

So for me, a spiritual or a more sustainable relationship, particularly in modern times, is one where we have to figure out as parents, what is our adult play? I still have this childlike energy in me. I'm still fiery. How can we still be passionate, romantic, and also be great parents? So for me, that is what excites me in my relationships. And when I work with clients, that is always the language and direction we go as well. Because typically, that is maybe what is missing. There's nothing wrong with a person, they're just not educated about it. They don't know.

Yeah. This is precisely what my dissertation was on. It was a meta-analysis, which is a study of other studies. It was qualitative, and it was looking at the concept of conscious intimate relating. That is being very conscious and growth-oriented in romantic relationship, which we typically don't have a lot of modeling around what that looks like. To your point, many people, whether or not it's something they intentionally decided, or whether or not it was seen through media or modeling growing up, that if you love someone, you give to them. Or the conflict avoiding, or the cutting off certain parts. Like, I don't know how this fits in the relationship. So there's this doling or restricting that starts to happen, that we aren't expanding. We are more in this safe zone, not rocking the boat, so to speak. Yet, there's so much experience to be had, and dynamic, evolving intimacy and passion and individual vitality, that I think when we cut that off, we're really cutting off a lot of the passion. This, I think, also fits to your point about the erotic passion sexual piece too. That if we are in routine or if we're in the script of normalcy, it's really hard to feel.

Oh my God, it's a psychological prison, yes. You mentioned that you had a lot of men on. Are they single? Are they in relationships? What do they say about dating and women and their frustrations? I was curious about that, because that could be fun. Because I might be able to incorporate something that could be applicable to that. I was just curious.

Yes. Well, I'm so glad you asked that. Because I do feel there are many men that I work with, and also listeners who have described, it seems as though the gender roles are reversed. That they are seeking more emotional intimacy, and perhaps their significant other is not interested in going there. Or perhaps is more dominant in their perspective or opinions and doesn't want to field the ball, so to speak. They don't want to collaborate. They just want to have it their way, and so it feels like the conversation gets shut down. Really, gender aside, I think this real longing for expansion is really universal. I think sometimes we get caught into or bought into the idea around what is a loving partner, or what is a way that I can serve and show up? I think when this isn't really consciously evaluated, we can get into this role, which isn't very alive.

Yeah, absolutely. I saw this happening 20 years ago. I actually used to coach women, and I had a women's group and I was a man leading that. So times have changed. I used to also lead men's groups, and I danced in helping them understand masculine and feminine communication. But it's not tied to a gender role, it's more tied the energy of that, coming from Chinese medicine. So the feminine is a little more receptive and nurturing. So what men are saying is that I'm missing that. That is what I'm attracted to. If they've been taught most their life that women would like for you to be strong, be in integrity, and you have good work ethics, and it's not working. I can imagine not being received, it can be frustrating.

However, I also know this. That is, we are going through a major shift in our collective consciousness. Such that there are some women who are very angry towards patriarchy and the masculine, there are so many women who've been sexually perpetrated. So right now, it's a space and a time for women to be vocal about this without being killed by speaking up, or more negative things coming towards them. I forgot, all I know is her name is Dr. Kelley, and she was on this interview. I wish I knew her last name. But she talked about where she saw herself as a feminist, and that she was really rebellious. Then when she softened into her body, she noticed herself yearning for the masculine, and she got married. She saw that she was still in the immature feminine or whatever, like blaming men, versus embodying her own masculinity or her own healthy boundaries, and therefore, so she can attract and create a good relationship. So there are women, I imagine such as yourself too, Jessica, I don't know you that well, where you understand that. You understand that dynamic and where that energy is coming from, and the longing that these men have.

But I think just more and more what men could do, particularly if they're single right now, is just recognize that if a woman that you're interested is not open, then you could do these things. One is, is there a part of me that's closed also? Like, one foot in, one foot out? I'm so hurt about my divorce. Because I believe in law of attraction. That's why they might show up. Or two, are you a trustable man? Because if she senses that you're not, then she'll still be guarded. When I led that women's group, the reason why I brought this up, majority of those women were CEOs, entrepreneurs, women who did really well, and most of them were physically attractive. Even though they would show up sometimes in a workshop like I'm strong or whatever else, they would definitely drop into their feminine essence in that workshop. I would see those women show up in my office, and they would completely just let go. Because even though I wasn't dating them, I was a strong masculine character that they felt safe with, where they could just surrender. So it's important.

They're not in relationship with you, so the triggers and the stakes are different.

Yeah. So that helps them understand like, I know what I need. I need to trust that I can also walk out if the man is not trustable, but also recognize what maybe a healthy, strong man might look like. So that's a way to look at it as well. Or three is just, it might not be a fit. It might not be a fit, so don't wait on a person's potentiality. It's like, a lot of people are still very closed off and guarded. But my best friends are primarily women, very strong women. My girlfriend is a coach, and she has been a coach for 20 years, and very strong also. But we have a beautiful dance. People would consider me a very strong masculine man, but her and I definitely work well together. My best friend Amy is also a strong woman. She's the mother of my son. So I flow in that, because I know who they are and you know who I am.

I'm friends with a lot of women. I have to say, a lot of women out there are just still vetting men. They want to see that trust. When you show up to that woman, what's more attractive, I would say, what I've heard from most of my strong women, is a man who's offering value. He's not trying to get something from her, get sex, or even get her number, or try to get her approval or talk about his accomplishments. It's more like, how can I serve you right now to my best ability, even if I never meet you again?

Yeah. I think that's a person of increase, period. However we put that into the gender energy, that is very attractive. When we talk about shifting in a collective consciousness, that there's value for both energies. Historically, perhaps they have not been seen as valuable in an equitable way. Rather than a man or a woman, just the energies. So when we look at the dance of relating in people who drive more or live more, and relate in the world with one energy more than another, what's the flow of that? So again, when we have awareness around that and consciousness around that, I think there's so much more capacity to play with this.

Yeah, we call them power struggles. My girlfriend had a mother who took care of most things, and her dad was reckless with the money. So she witnessed her mother move into what you might call the masculine role. So you can imagine she took on those traits, and so she's a single mother as well. When she's at my house, I primarily do everything because I like to. There's moments she's in the kitchen where I'm like: You know you can relax, right? So we laugh about it, and we see how sometimes we don't bump heads. But it's almost like dancing, and one of us steps on the other person's foot. So she does not want to lead with her survival instincts.

Yes, that's key. That it's like, where's their desire? Is their real desire to serve and to be a person of increase, rather than it's because I have to?

Yes, because that builds up resentment. Even with me, I had to learn how to be a better receiver. So my father would be considered very masculine. He was in the Marines for 30 years. He cooked, he cleaned. He raised two boys in the fifties as a single father. He was a different breed. He really cared for his children. So I watched that.

So in some ways, the converse, he had to potentially occupy more of the feminine traits in the concert with the masculine that lived in him.

Yes. His dad died when he was two years old, and his mother died when he was 15. He was raised by strong women. My grandmother was one of the first female deputies in the Bronx. So again, I have a lineage of strong women. I mean, they were part of the women's suffrage movement. My aunt was friends with Eleanor Roosevelt. So imagine, a man from the great generation who would typically be really masculine, maybe cut off from his emotions, being raised by women. He was sensitive. He communicated. Very balanced.

Yes. And for him, what a model you had.

Yes, I have seen him cry many times. Oh my God, he's a beautiful man. It's not about, we're not choosing what is better. It's more like, how do we work and flow together?

Yeah, and how do we integrate the different energies even in ourselves? So I know our time is limited, and you had mentioned the difference between the traditional and the spiritual. For one that is interested in more expansion and going into uncharted territory, which we can speak to all the positives here. I will also say, it can be terrifying and scary to not know what's going to come from the rattle or the rocking the boat, so to speak. And there's something you're speaking into around what can get cultivated and co-created in this approach. What if one's partner, as you mentioned, is like: Ah, not this, or what do you mean? Or on paper, everything's good. What do you encourage for people that are contending? You gave a heterosexual, the woman being more interested in having a spiritual relationship that's expanded. But again, I think it could be either, or any which way. What do you do when one partner is not fully onboard with us?

Well, it starts in the beginning. What I mean by that is, if you know yourself, and you're authentic. I'll give you an example. I went on one date with a woman in San Diego, and I lived in Santa Monica, and I'm a single parent. So geographically, she wasn't attractive, even though we had one kiss. But I said that. At the end of the date, I said, I think you're great. But I go, I'm not sure if I can do this. She said, I understand that. We just became friends. I didn't want to keep driving her and have sex, when I know that it just wasn't aligned with my life. We could have worked it out or whatever.

So there's that. But now, if a person is listening to this podcast, you have to set the container for this to happen, like a spiritual partnership. And what that could look like is, I notice this also. People need to know that there's maybe not something wrong, and they often need to be appreciated by something they're bringing to the relationship first. So we have to have a conversation so the person doesn't get defensive or feel like something is broken. So for example, you might say, have you ever thought about going to do this tantric class? It's clothed. You look each other in the eyes. You feed each other chocolate. It sounds really goofy. But would you like to do this? It could be fun. I'll pay for it. There, it's like, there's no expectations just but to go. A couple might go there and recognize it's hard for them to look each other in the eyes, because they have past stories that are unhealed, or they're just really uncomfortable going deep. That can move to another conversation.

There's a lot of support out there including, I can't believe I'm promoting his book, but Gary Zukav, who wrote The Seat of the Soul. He lives in Ashton also. I've had dinner with him a couple times. His book is called Spiritual Partnership, and it really breaks down an authentic relationship, one that can help a relationship grow. There's an example he uses where a person loses his job. His buddy says: Oh, I'll meet you at the bar. They start having drinks, and he says, I already have a headhunter set up for you. Versus the other person who wants to grow with his friend. Hey, meet me at a restaurant. There's no alcohol. He sits in front of his friend and says: Bob, I love you. And we speak in I statements. And I care about you, but it hurts me to see you go from job to job. Do you think that any of this has to do with you? Just curious. So that's leaning in, rather than having drinks with your buddy.

So people listening to this might cringe. 

So you might think, well, I don't want to break up. I don't want this to create a problem. The next question to ask yourself is this, how often do you walk on eggshells? How often do you feel that stress anyway? More often, I hear couples say: Oh my God, I carry this fear of conflict every day, versus that one conversation that might be uncomfortable for that one moment. They've been sitting with this in his or her body. Then you're not even being present or honest with your partner.

Or to your earlier point, it will come out passive aggressively. So the thing that wants to get spoken is ending up being a real vicious attack sometimes. I loved what you said about container, you've said it a couple times. Even with your example of a dear friend, there's a container of that friendship, potentially the history or the care or the regard. In a long-term relationship, if it's a partnership or a marriage or even a committed relationship, that there's an agreement, there's the bond that provides that container. Then the other thing that I'm hearing you speak about is the real ability to lead with love, just a real staying on one side or staying in one's lane, and offering or even asking for permission. Like, I have these feelings and I want to know if you'd be open to me sharing. Or it relates to some things I've observed, I'm curious if you're open to any input or what it's like on my side, given what I witness. These are sweaty 10-minute conversations, and yet, even if we try to hide it, to your point, we're not hiding it.

It's like, trust me, I'm fine. I'm fine with it. Everything's okay. One of the exercises I have people do. By the way, my book called All It Takes is One has a lot of these sentence stems that I'm talking about, where it helps people understand their hidden beliefs and how to ask the right questions. But first, take personal responsibility of why am I bothered by this anyway, what does this say about myself? If you're single or you notice that there's a pattern of a behavior, you've had other ex-girlfriends or boyfriends tell you this, and you just don't want to present this to your partner, a safer way to do this is this. You reach out to three to five friends, hopefully it's mixed gender, and it's this. You prepare the container. Hi, I'm working with a coach, or I'm trying to do self-development.

I just want to ask you some questions, just give me your honest opinion. I won't say anything, until maybe the following day, and that's it, and I won't get defensive. So that person agrees, and the questions are this. What do you see working really well in my life? What do you see not working well in my life? If you were me, what would you do differently? Then number four, is there anything I've done to hurt you or that is still unresolved for you? That's it. Because the last one is the gift. It's like where you can say, I'm sorry. More often, you'll hear friends all say the same thing. It's pretty accurate.

The three people that you solicited will say something very similar.

Yes, and then there's the feedback. It's like, that's enough to work with. So I think, to me, it's safer, because you're not dating these people.

Absolutely. You said, ideally, that if one is committed to this way of being, that it makes establishing a relationship easier, where this is a value: of growth, of purpose, of authenticity. Then we can build from there. Sometimes people are already in a relationship and they start implementing and growing, and when the other isn't, it can pose a conflict. I've seen when one person grows, sometimes the other will come along at some point. It just isn't going to be lock in step or step in lock, however you say that.

If a person feels good about him or herself, again, I mentioned this in the beginning when we were sharing about our purpose, it's not as frightening. It's like, I don't ever have an idea that I'll be alone. Because if I didn't have an intimate partner, then I know that I would have community, because that's just who I am. So I'm content, with myself and also with my partner. I would only be unhappy with myself if I'm not speaking my truths. I'd feel it in my heart. So I have to do that.

You mentioned about some people start to change with a partner, and some people don't. But the way that usually looks like, for me, when I work with one person in a relationship, is that person, if they start seeing changes, the other person might throw some of those tactics to bring them down. The commonest might be: Oh, you just think you're better than me, or you're on your high horse. Because that partner who's seeing me for coaching is no longer sad or is becoming happier, while the other person is still drinking at a bar. Or it's that, that partner is going: Oh my God, I'm liking this new version of yourself, give me the number of your therapists. Number three, it's that the person who's getting better recognizes that this person they're with is no longer a match. Or maybe never was, it was a trauma response relationship. 

Yeah, I agree. Wonderful. Well, I know we're winding down. Is there anything else you want to speak about that we haven't touched on, that you feel like is important for our conversation?

Well, I didn't come on this call to plug my book. But I wanted to bring it up because it actually leads right to this conversation. That is, my book is called, All It Takes is One: Drop Your One BIG Hidden Belief and Master Your Life. It's kind of like a book and workbook, and it's really simple. So a lot of what we were discussing here talks about this. It has questions where you start figuring out who you are, why are you doing these things? I ask people about their culture, their spirituality, past traumas, and there are sentence stems for you to do your own process and to arrive to knowing more of who you are. I believe that most of us have one to two hidden beliefs that are impacting all areas of our lives. So I would highly recommend maybe people taking a peek at that, maybe I'll share those in the show notes. But you'll discover those hidden beliefs in intimate relationships. That's the mirror.

Yes, it is. It absolutely is. Say the name of the book one more time.

It is All It Takes is One: Drop Your One BIG Hidden Belief and Master Your Life. It's with Chicken Soup for Soul people.

Awesome, wonderful! I'll have the link to that book on today's show notes. Is there anything else you want to mention about what you have to offer, where people can find you?

My website is RayDoktor.com. I always have freebies there. I think I have a relationship masterclass there. We are rebranding my website, because my book just came out in April. But I always have stuff there too, and all my links work. It's really easy to find me. I also have a lot of videos on YouTube. But I would visit my website first.

Awesome. I love that you're like, all my links work.

Well, you know, it's like we're always changing things. I saw the website with my designer two days ago and I'm seeing it be built up, and we've shot the video for it also. I had to do a photoshoot last month. But I'm like, everything should be still working.

Good, that's key. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for spending time with us today and everything you've shared, and just your deep commitment to this journey and this path and how you support others.

Thank you very much. Have an amazing day!

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