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Are you struggling to foster a deeper emotional connection with your partner? Relationship intimacy can be one of the most challenging yet rewarding aspects of a partnership. Many couples find themselves at a crossroads, wondering how to balance the demands of everyday life with the need for emotional and physical closeness. The pressure to maintain intimacy often leaves partners feeling disconnected and frustrated, particularly when unmet needs and unspoken expectations come into play. But what if there was a way to bridge this gap and intentionally build a relationship filled with clarity, connection, and mutual satisfaction?
In this episode, we delve into practical strategies for enhancing vulnerability and emotional intimacy within your relationship. We'll explore how learning to meet each other's needs can transform your partnership, offering insights into overcoming common challenges such as gender stereotypes and differing intimacy styles. By embracing a holistic approach to intimacy, you can cultivate deeper connections and foster a more fulfilling, proactive relationship. Whether you're looking to redefine intimacy beyond just sex or seeking ways to communicate more effectively, this episode provides valuable guidance to help you intentionally design a thriving relationship.
Pulling from their experiences personally in their 13+ years of marriage and professionally as a licensed counselor and certified coach, Angela and James Mitchell developed Love Intentionally to help couples design, implement, and sustain a conscious relationship rooted in depth and intimacy. Angela has been in the counseling field for over 20 years, working with abuse survivors, children, families, and couples. James is a transformational coach and lifelong entrepreneur, having helped hundreds of clients to live their best lives.
In this episode
08:56 Sharing the journey of opening up emotionally and strengthening connection.
12:12 The balance of emotional and physical intimacy to overcome gender stereotypes.
16:29 How a personal retreat evolved into DIY marriage retreats for intentional connection.
18:38 Exploring the importance of flexibility and openness in various forms of intimacy.
21:03 Understanding the holistic approach to intimacy, focusing on both emotional and physical closeness.
25:30 Introducing a key communication strategy called the “story in my head” technique for clearer dialogue.
27:34 The concept of creating a relationship North Star for maintaining a strategic partnership mindset.
31:39 Redefining intimacy beyond sex by exploring diverse intimacy styles.
34:08 The benefits of intentional planning by combining counseling principles with strategic life planning.
38:46 Addressing the challenges of balancing life's priorities while maintaining relationship focus.
43:57 Programs and methods for deepening intimacy.
Your Check List of Actions to Take
- Start by openly sharing your feelings and fears with your partner to build deeper emotional intimacy.
- Clearly communicate your actions and intentions to your partner to reduce misunderstandings and increase connection.
- Develop a “relationship North Star” by outlining shared goals and dreams, ensuring you both move towards common objectives.
- Plan and conduct an annual retreat to focus on repairing and nurturing your relationship, utilizing tools like strategic planning to strengthen your bond.
- Schedule dedicated time each week for intentional intimacy, engaging in activities that foster closeness and understanding.
- Take the “Intentional Intimacy style quiz” to understand your and your partner's intimacy needs, and work on meeting these needs without judgment.
- Implement weekly and quarterly check-ins to discuss and adjust relationship goals, ensuring continuous alignment and growth.
- Use the phrase “the story in my head is…” to express your perceptions during conflicts, promoting empathetic and clear communication.
Mentioned
ERP 089: How to Use Love Languages to Strengthen Connection
ERP 090: How To Use Love Languages To Strengthen Connection – Part Two
Evolve in Love (*Dr. Jessica Higgins program) (link)
Connect with Angela and James Mitchell
Websites: loveintentionally.com
Facebook: facebook.com/loveintentionally.co
Instagram: instagram.com/loveintentionally.co
Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins
Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship
Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins
Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/
Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins
Twitter: @DrJessHiggins
Website: drjessicahiggins.com
Email: [email protected]
About this episode
Angela and James, it's so wonderful to have you both. I'm looking forward to our conversation. This is very much a part of what I very much value, as we talk about intimate relating, and that is being intentional.
Before we get into our topic, would you both like to share a little bit about what got you into focusing and helping others in this way?
Yeah. Well, excited to be here. Thanks for having us. So I've been a counselor for a long time, 20 years, which makes me sound older than I think I am in my head. So I've been in that world for a long time. Then, I think a lot of it, for me, was realizing, through personal experience, that marriage, turns out, takes some work and some intention. So through our own process of being coupled and in a long-term committed relationship, we had to learn all these tools to make it thrive and make it successful. Some of those lessons were painful, and some of them were easier than others. Really, once we learned the tools ourselves, wanting to then share that with other couples, what worked for us.
Yeah, I used to just call it sex, not intimacy. Just didn't really understand that there was some nuance and some variations to that. So sex or sexual intimacy was the biggest pain, and also the biggest pleasure that was caused in my life. So I spent a lot of time, a lot of energy, a lot of effort, really working to create the balance where it was definitely more of a connective, intimate, pleasurable experience. It took a lot of work over the years, and unwinding of my own patterns, as well as working on our communication, and ultimately, working on intimacy. That's the part that makes everything else we do in our life absolutely worth it.
I love that. I couldn't agree more. Angela, were you going to add to that?
Like, looking at it holistically. So we joke that James only knew one type of intimacy.
It's not a joke.
Joke's on him, he married a counselor though.
I know, that's what I was like, well! Sometimes I want to laugh that it's a little bit like, this was maybe a previous life of your mindset. And also, it's real and I don't want to laugh at it, if it was something that you experienced. So I sometimes hesitate to laugh if it's a little deprecating.
There's no gravity to the situation.
Not at all. So we learned a lot of things together.
Yeah. I think, to speak about intentionality or consciousness, whether or not it's conscious or unconscious, I do believe sometimes the partners we choose help us develop in areas that are either undeveloped or not given attention, or have wounding and healing around. I mean, I will raise my hand that that has been my experience, that I have chosen a partner, or have chosen previous partners, and had various learnings and opportunities in those dynamics. It's quite uncanny how we will, I think Harville Hendrix and Helen Hunt call it this picker. We have an unconscious picker. I think it's often what can happen in intimate relating.
Yeah, Terry Real says we marry our unfinished business. I love this line because it is all too true. I think, in some ways, that can be painful and frustrating and ugh. And at the same time, I also think it's beautiful. It's one of the things I love about working with couples, is I feel like we can do all this personal growth and development work and feel really great. Then your partner does that thing and it triggers you, and ugh, you're right back in it. So, while that's hard and painful, it is also the beauty in being in relationships.
“Most of our wounds are relational, and so then in relationship is also, I believe, where we get to heal them.”
Absolutely, yes. I don't think I shared this with you, my dissertation topic was conscious intimate relationship. It was a meta-analysis looking at nine other studies and what the common themes were around conscious intimate relationship. At the time, I don't think it was widely used. One of the themes that came out of that was relationship as a teacher. That what gets brought up or can be curriculum, I would say, for developing, but just the mirror even. That our partner can be a teacher or a mirror, and we might not get confronted with that same information or understanding or insight without being in relationships. So I couldn't agree more.
I searched the web to corroborate this. One of the practitioners I work with said that the Dalai Lama stated that you can't be enlightened unless you're in a relationship. Whether that's true or not, whether they said that or not, still, I'd like to think it's true.
Yes, absolutely. That's a beautiful quote. Thank you. Well, tell me, how did this distill for you with the focus of intentionality? Was there something that really stood out around the real focus of intention?
Yeah, so I would say we started being intentional from the onset of our relationship. I had never married before, but in a previous relationship, had a child. So I knew doing this again, I really wanted to get it right this time. Plus, I had a 4-year-old when we met, and so I really wanted to make sure I was getting it right for him as well. Then, James at that time was in the world of entrepreneurs, and he was doing business planning every year and being really strategic with his business. So when we were engaged, well, two things happened. One was we had a premarital counseling fail. So I, counselor/therapist for years, believe in it. It's amazing. So I'm like, we're getting married, let's go to premarital counseling, and we're going to talk about all the important stuff—how we're going to raise kids together, because I already have one, we want more, how we're going to do our finances, how we're going to live together, who's going to clean the toilets. Like, really important stuff, we're going to figure it all out in premarital counseling. Bless her, I think she was very sweet, but I think used to working with couples in crisis. So she was really focused on how we fight, and we were really diving into all that. And what happened was we actually started fighting more.
We didn't fight. We were happily engaged, super stoked to be married, on a tear, just good vibe. Then this lady is like, let's talk about all the bad stuff. We're like, we don't have that yet, we'll get to that when we need to. But Angela does her homework.
So ironically, we started fighting more. Then there was a day where we were in a session. Honestly, it was unlike me, uncharacteristically. But I felt like she was kind of going after James, and I was being defensive of him. It created this weird dynamic, and I just ended up leaving.
Oh okay. You're like, I'm done, thank you very much.
I'm done. We were out in the parking lot, and I'm crying, and he's consoling me. He's like, I don't think this is working. So we decided, we're like: Well, really what we're trying to do here is just be intentional and proactive. So maybe we don't need this type of session. But we just need to get away for the weekend and focus on all these things we want to talk about. So he brought his entrepreneur strategic planning side of things. He had been doing that a lot with his business, so that was the second thing going on, and realizing that it was really helping him achieve his goals business-wise. So then there was this idea: Well, isn't the rest of our life worth that amount of focus and effort as his business? So we took his entrepreneurial skills and my counseling skills, and we went away for the weekend, and we made a list of topics, and we talked about all of them and set goals and got on the same page. It was so lovely that we just decided to do it every year, and we called it our annual marriage retreat. Then friends started asking about it because they were seeing that we were hitting all these goals, and we started sharing with friends. Like, sure, you can use our template. It was a little Word document at the time.
It's kind of interesting. Moving from doing it for ourselves and to turning it into a business, I guess wasn't the most intentional thing that we've done. It was more of a heart-centered, like, this is what people are asking for, and when we did it, it was so alive for our own relationship. Then watching our best friends and the people we care about starting to grow. It became very clear to us that this was where our heart was.
Yeah. So we saw just what it was doing for our own life and relationship, what it was doing for our friends. So then we just kind of spread this thing. Well, we have good stuff here, we want to share it and help other people be intentional. Realizing that a lot of what was out there for couples was more about—and I think this is changing, I hope it's changing—but more about solving problems once they already exist, instead of trying to get ahead of it and be intentional and proactive from the beginning. To help, A: prevent some of those problems, and B: when natural problems arise, because they will in life, making sure we have the tools to face them together in a healthy way.
The other thing we saw was that most of the pre-marriage programs were typically rooted in a religious institution. While that is a part of our life, it was not the center. We didn't want to put that first. You do you boo, whatever you feel, whatever you believe, we support that. That's where our retreat comes in, is that there is a place for that. However big that wants to be in your relationship, you can make it. Or if it doesn't exist, you don't have to. So we created a structure that works for just about anybody without that structure.
Yeah. So we started being more intentional, just in this broader aspect of all areas of our life. Then what we started realizing was, we'd be hitting all these goals financially and career-wise and health-wise and all this stuff. And we were just busy, and we had little kids. We have three kids now. So when our kids were young and we're building careers and all this stuff, that it was really easy to take our eye off of our intimate connection. So we might be hitting goals in nine out of these 10 areas, but our intimacy was the area that oftentimes got neglected.
It was the one area out of the 10, that was just a struggle.
So we really started putting intention—there's that word again—into that, and learning the tools to how do we maintain.
A resilient, intentional connection and intimacy.
Well, this is really powerful. I love just hearing a little bit about your story and just your experience, and how this organically became something of an act of love or service to be able to help and make a difference. As it was working in your lives and people were recognizing that and wanting it, to be able to follow that I think is so beautiful. Also, you're right. I think with the demands of life, and then just human tendencies tend to be a little bit more reactive. To really set things up and be in this intentional, proactive approach. I remember, I think it was early, I had a brick and mortar business. I was living in Boulder, Colorado at the time, and working with couples. I would ask them questions rooting around, if they had been together for a period of time, when did they talk about X, Y, and Z, when a difference was really apparent.
They're like, well, we never have. So oftentimes, yes, life has hardship, and there are conflicts and triggers, and also, how often perhaps we're trying to build the plane when we're flying so to speak, or we're not really in a position to have as much resource to look at how we might approach things. Because it's like, so much is live and happening, and the stress is on and the tension's high. So it's difficult to really have that opportunity to slow down, to be a little bit calmer, really use our creativity and our wonderment to look at: what do we want, what would we love? It's really a visionary approach to be like, what's our vision? Then all the things that go on and the science around having focus, and you're talking about meeting goals. If we're not intentional, then we can easily fill up everything else or our life with other things that maybe don't matter as much.
100%.
Absolutely. That vision, we call the relationship north star. Like, where are we taking this thing, what is the direction? It's going to have some zigs and zags along the path. That's just part of life, and that's the fun part of life. But we just want to make sure that we're moving towards that direction. Then once we get there, we love each other still, maybe even better, deeper, more juicy than ever before.
Yeah.
“What we've realized along the way is that actually, that dreaming together and creating our vision and our relationship north star and talking about it is a form of intimacy. We call it creation intimacy. Like, the act of creating something together, something bigger than yourself.”
This life that we live and these kids that we have are dreams that we see come to fruition. That there's the intimacy in that, in that dreaming together and visioning together.
And then making it happen. I used to think sexual intimacy was my favorite, and I'm pretty sure creation intimacy is right up there these days.
Yeah, not so separate either. Our vitality is so closely linked to our creativity and sexuality, and there's a lot of interconnectedness. I think it's really beautiful too, that you have an awareness around, in those earlier years of parenting young ones and life demands and businesses. I think that is one of the special things about being in a practice of vision and staying connected to the vision, is looking at where we might be out of sync or out of alignment. Not out of alignment as far as integrity, but perhaps out of alignment as far as focus around what the intention is. Especially with these really important things that sometimes won't be urgent, but end up being really like, if they don't get nurtured, they will be hugely detrimental.
Yeah. I'm the more Type A one in our relationship. I'm organized and I'm a task master, and I can just check things off a to-do list, and it feels so good. I get that dopamine hit every time. It was easy for me when we have kids and work and careers and all these things, for all these things right in front of me that feel really urgent to consume my time.
I literally used to have to write my name on her to-do list if I wanted any attention or to be done. That was legit.
Like, sex with your husband.
Yes, it's on my to-do list.
Yes. So that is our first tactile tip for anybody listening to this that's too busy and in the to-do list phase, just write your partner's name on your to-do list. I like to call him your ride or die. So write your ride or die's name down on that paper every now and again.
Yeah, so he would do that, and that would usually be my reminder of: Oops, I've not really been focusing here or giving attention there. Then I read, I'm a nerd. I love to study all things, especially relationships. I was looking into divorce statistics, and most of the population in the US, divorce is on the decline. The exception is…
Any guesses?
You might know.
Any guesses what the one increasing population is?
I don't.
Empty nesters. So people, really, once you hit 45 and over, it starts to go up. But 55 is where it's doubled in the last couple decades.
That ah feeling, that a lot of people are like: Oh, no shit, that feels probably pretty accurate. That's where this work comes in. Because if you focus on building life, and being intentional about the strategic planning on where you're living and in our careers, and who's getting the kids to football practice or whatever, sports ball practice or art thing. If that becomes a focus for so long, and this connection gets a little frayed, all of a sudden, it becomes easier to pour attention into what's easy, which is like, let's just do this. Let's just take care of these kids. Then you hit that point, and that's why this intentional intimacy is so important.
Yeah. Because otherwise, once kids move out, all of a sudden, you look at each other and you're like: who are you, who am I? I might have lost myself in all this as well. So many couples at that point decide, we don't really know each other or we're not on the same page anymore. We haven't grown together, we've grown apart. So we don't want to be one of those statistics, and we hope we can help other people as well.
Yes. I missed what you said, James.
I said, we don't want to be one of those statistics nor the people in our community.
Yes, okay. So you talk about intimacy styles. How does this fit in the intentional? It sounds like, if I'm understanding, what the two of you really are assisting people is being able to do these retreats. Is it something they would do in their own lives? Is this something that you also offer? I imagine you'll talk to us a little bit more towards the end of the show. But is this something that you offer as a program?
Yes, it used to be that. I mean, with our small kids, we really put a huge amount of attention and intention into being present with them. We had them on purpose. So in-person retreats mean we're away from our family for a weekend. So we just do a couple of those a year. As a result, to make this more accessible, we turned it into a DIY take-home boxed kit, and we also have a digital retreat as well. So it's the same thing. You can either do it. If you like physical paper, copy, books, you've got that. If you just want to do it online, you've got that. If you want to pair them up, you've got that.
So our intentionality, we see it as two-pronged, and we see them going together. There's that strategic life planning, the dreaming, the visioning, the setting goals, north star, that they're helping you create this dream life with your partner. And then the connection and intimacy. Because you can have this beautiful, perfect life, but if you're not connected and you're unhappy as a couple, it's not going to feel so great. So the two-prong.
So we have the retreats, and then also, for the connection piece and the intimacy styles, I think there's huge value in people having or couples having common language. That's where things like love languages or erotic blueprints or those kind of things can be really helpful. Because it gives us, I think, a greater understanding of not only ourselves, but also our ride or die, as James calls it, our partner, and in language that's non-judgmental. So it's less about, you're not providing enough of this for me, or I'm not getting that. It's like: Oh, well here's your intimacy style, here's mine. How can we both get needs met? So we find that value in the common language really important. I feel like it helps people be seen and understood, and see and understand their partner better. So how we look at intimacy styles is that everyone has different buckets. The ones we focus on are: there's emotional intimacy, there's intellectual intimacy, there's experiential intimacy, there's physical intimacy, like touch and affection, there's sexual intimacy, there's creation intimacy, and spiritual intimacy. I was like, we focus on seven. So there's these different types, and all of them can be valuable.
Yeah, one is not better than the other. Let's just be clear on that. It's just that this is the one that fills my bucket, and we each have different size buckets for that.
So having the language, what has helped us and a lot of the couples we worked with, is understanding that my emotional intimacy bucket is larger than James. So in our relationship, he might feel like his emotional intimacy bucket is full. It's great, it's at a 10. I'm over here going: Well, mine's at a 5. That's not because we're in different relationships. It's because my bucket is bigger. It's not because he's doing anything wrong. He's perfectly satisfied with the amount of emotional intimacy we have. But my bucket is bigger. Vice versa for us with sexual, his bucket is bigger than mine. So we really look at how do we check in with each other about that using this language. Just like: here's how full this bucket is, or here's the types of intimacy I'm feeling like I'm craving a little more of right now to stay on the same page. Then we have lots of tools I love, like actual tangible tools. How do we do that? How do we make sure both partner's needs are getting met? How do we have systems for communicating about it that can be proactive and preventative as well, rather than just waiting till one partner's frustrated and then it explodes in the kitchen one night?
Yes, thank you for laying that out. James, do you want to add anything? I have questions, but I want to see.
Angela mentioned our systems that we have for communication. I do view an intentional relationship as it's easy as a recipe. For us, it's our once-a-year getaway to do that. Annual retreat, big picture planning. The medium tier is, we do a quarterly check-in on all of those big goals, what are we doing? Then there's the weekly check-in connect. On the weekly check-in connect, it's like: what are we doing this week, what are we eating this week, where have the kids got to be this week, and then what are we doing to connect this week, and where are you at in your cycle. We always schedule an intentional intimacy session once a week. Things can happen outside of that, but that's going to be the one time that we do that.
While we're having that discussion—for us, typically on a Sunday—then this is where the intimacy languages come up. For me, checking in, it used to always be like: Yeah, I could use a little more of that sexual intimacy bucket filled. Over time, I realized that I'm not always wanting that bucket filled. I want some intimacy, and physical intimacy, you can literally scratch my back a lot more sometimes, than what I thought I really wanted, just to feel that connection, that closeness, that beautiful thing that just we get to share.
Thank you for that. I'm grateful you mentioned that there's a scaffolding of this that gives support throughout the year. That it's not like: Oh, we do this visioning, and then it's something we wrote down and then we don't attend to throughout the year. So I love that there's a system around how to do that. I also really appreciate just the specificity of the way that you've offered these different styles of the seven different intimacies. Because I think it does really offer range, rather than like: Oh, intimacy is just sex, or intimacy is emotion or sex. There's many ways that we can be in intimate connecting that allow for that connection to really foster and really create that bonding. I also love the non-judgment that is infused in this. Because I think when we feel a discontent or a lack, that that is typically hard to initiate a conversation.
Sometimes it sounds really binary. It's not enough. Or ooh, what does that mean? Rather than like: Oh, it's a five, how do we get it to six, or what would make it a seven? It gives it a lot more flexibility around opportunities for improving, and also just like it's not all or nothing. I think also too, just recognizing we have different needs and sizes of buckets. So to your point, it really creates less about blame or shame or judgment, and it really creates an opportunity for curiosity. Because as you said, and not even just with intimacy, so many things are different in partnership, whether or not you have extrovert/introvert, the spender/the saver. I's just to have this sense of awareness. It's not so much that we're good or bad, right or wrong. It's just what it means to us, and having that understanding can really help us show up for each other, be more intentional and proactive. Because we've got our heads up around it. We're not just confronting the difference and then being threatened, and then that's where our protective tendencies show up, and that can get us into trouble.
“How great is it that one of God or the universe's little jokes is that opposites attract? Come on, what a treat! But that does provide more range to a relationship.”
So there are times in life that I've been like, I wish she was more like me, like her or previous partners. It's really with gratitude that we get more range, more experience, more awareness and expression in the world.
To what you were saying before, Jessica, we love scales of 1 to 10. Like, this is where I'm at. Because it does feel like it takes some of the judgment off of it. James has a great analogy that involves pie. He would say…
Remember how I said sexual intimacy was one of the biggest challenges in our relationship, back in the day?
So he would say he wanted more.
I want some more sex, honey.
And what I would hear is, the sex I'm providing is not enough, i.e. I'm not enough. That was how I coded what he was saying of: I want more. I heard it as I was not enough. So one day when we were having one of these discussions, he explained, he said: Well, it's like if you gave. He loves pie, grew up eating lots of pie, all the holidays. So he's like, if you gave me a piece of pie, one piece of pie is enough, I might want more pie.
Definitely want another.
I want a second piece of pie. But it doesn't mean that one pie isn't enough. I was like, oh, that helps. So if any of my not-enoughers out there needed to hear that, it's just more pie.
Yes, thank you for acknowledging that. Because I think it's so, so true, what gets triggered. I do believe a lot of the attachment systems that are at play are relevant. When we feel a threat or insecurity arise, the meaning we create around it likely has some tie to feeling enough or secure. So thank you for sharing that personal example, it really helps put into perspective like what this can look like.
Also, our craving for intimacy sometimes, if we're not taking time to have awareness around the ways in which we feel close, it could be channeled into one form that we've been able to articulate or know, like sex. But perhaps it's like, I want to have my back scratched, or I want to feel close skin-on-skin, and maybe sex is a part of it. But that just the connectivity and feeling relaxed together. I think having, again, more of that specificity can give people more options to reach and talk about.
With less pressure too. Because you say sex, everybody has got their own story with it, they've got their own traumas with it. So when it's, I just want to connect, even if it's that physical intimacy. Sometimes whenever I want sex and that's not available in the moment, what we've done though is just make sure that physical intimacy is available.
Or some other type.
Or some other type, yeah. So we'll just get naked and cuddle, or something to that effect. Just keep clothes on and cuddle. It can just really continue to create the depth that we're wanting, and also give me an opportunity to realize that there are other ways to connect. As a pretty typical male in this process of our marriage, that was a huge thing for me was getting some permission to have my intimacy buckets filled without this expectation or sort of the pressure of what sex can mean for me or for anybody else.
Yeah. So something we've committed to as a couple is, if one of us is asking the other for intimacy or connection, we look at how can I provide it? So if I am not available for sex, whatever reason, I'm tired, I don't feel good, and I'm on my period, whatever it might be. I'm not available for that, but he's wanting some connection and intimacy, then I get to go: Okay, what am I available for? So it's not a no to everything. It's like, I'm not available for that type, but here is what I'm available for. Do you want to lay on the couch and watch a movie and cuddle? Do you want to exchange massages? Let's do a date and just go do something fun. Let's go play pup putt or have some experiential intimacy, whatever it might be.
Yes. I really am grateful you're both identifying that we're a yes to each other, we're a yes to our connection and fostering our intimate nurturing of our bond, and there could be many ways. While my partner is asking or requesting a certain form, and that in the moment feels like a no, that there's other ways that are like: how can I show up, how can I engage in intimate connecting? I think there's so much we don't know. As the partner that's maybe pursuing sex, it might not be about the orgasm or the physical erotic experience. It might be more about the vulnerability of being together and connecting and sharing, that that is extremely satiating. Or the one that's like, I'm really kind of a no right now. Actually, when there is connecting and opening and feeling like the bonding, like: Oh, I actually feel more interested, and I am more open to exploring how we can be sexual. Maybe I don't want intercourse, but maybe there's other things I'm open to. So asking that question I think is so helpful to give option. Because if we're in that mindset of yes or no, that doesn't give a lot of room. But if we're like, what can I do, I think that helps the body and the mind work on where is there a possibility.
And we found too that these buckets, these intimacy styles, are kind of magical, in that if you fill one, it tends to raise the others a little bit too. So if we go out and do something new and fun and experiential together, it can also build emotional intimacy, and it can also make you more available for the physical and sexual intimacy. So again, just the importance of looking at it holistically, I think.
What comes through in this is the idea of a pattern. Anybody that's listening to this, that's been in a relationship for longer than let's say a year, has established some pretty solid patterns in how they initiate intimacy, how they respond to initiations of intimacy, how it goes. The late great comedian Robin Williams said: I don't really care about gay marriage, because after 20 years, it's all same sex.
Yeah, that's so funny.
So this can create new patterns of how intimacy gets shared. Angela, she's got some great quotes, and one of my favorites is: it takes two to create a pattern, and it only takes one to change it.
“If you can start showing up in this new way with this new language, even if your partner is not super receptive to it at first, you can be a part or be the catalyst to changing the pattern for new ways of intimacy, new ways of connecting.”
This is to your earlier point. When people are out as system of really investing in prioritizing their bond, it can feel like we lose each other, we lose ourselves. I think of it like a muscle or like a practice, and we can really start to build quite proficient language here if we are engaged in practicing, and there's a whole level. I mean, I don't think it's restrictive, I think it's generative. It continues to offer more rather than less. And when we're out of practice, out of system, I think we sometimes feel a little lost around how to reach to each other, how do we feel connected? It's just so much out of practice.
Yeah. When we work with clients in our two-on-two coaching, we assign homework every week. One, because I think some of the most important work that is going to happen is going to be outside of our hour session with them. You can probably relate as a therapist. The homework is someone else helping them break the seal or the crunchiness, if they haven't been experiencing intimacy or that level of closeness or vulnerability together. So we have them practice, we'll say: Okay, here's your exercise for the week, this is what you're supposed to do. Grab three objects around the house and have a sensual experience, or whatever it might be. It's just to, like you said, get those muscles flexing again. Then what we see is, there's usually this moment where it clicks, and all of a sudden, they are feeling comfortable in their own bodies again, feeling comfortable with each other, the intimacy on all the different levels starts to build. But they just need the tools and the practice to get back in the flow of it.
Yeah. I'm almost getting the picture of like, you're offering some frame or some structure that can feel safe practicing ground, and then they can start to feel their own efficacy or own capability of like: Ooh, I can play outside the lines a little bit. Or there's just a little bit more that they're able to integrate and internalize.
I want to say, it seems as though you're also recognizing that in partnership, it's unlikely, given what we've talked about already, that we're going to have the same size buckets and be matched. So what we make that mean. I mentioned attachment style. So when we don't feel satiated or we are feeling a longing in a particular area of intimacy, what we make that mean is, often when we're not really looking at this: Oh, they don't care, I'm not enough, they're not really with me. Or fear of abandonment. There's all kinds of reasons or things that come up for people around what they make that mean. So I love that you're giving space here for people to explore that it is going to be different. Let's look at it, it doesn't have to be threatening and there's a lot of opportunity for growth.
Yeah. One of my favorite phrases we use a lot is, the story in my head is.
“When we're communicating, it's that acknowledgement that you did this thing and here is the story I created around it, which could be true, could be what you intended. But more than likely, it is very much viewed through my lens and my own wounds and my own personality and all of those things, and my attachment style.”
So if I can own that here's this thing happening and this is the story I've created around it, I'm much more easily able to express that to him and have him receive it, to not get so defensive. He's like: Oh, that's what you were thinking, here's what I meant. Then you can correct.
Totally, yeah. I would add that when we don't do something, making that more visible around what it means, that gives a little bit more opportunity for reassurance or just clarity. Then I would also say, on face value, if emotionally sharing isn't a strong need, it's not even that it has to be a strong need. It's what it means to the other person. Like, how can I show up? Really knowing what it means. Like, I'm going to feel or I want to feel closer to you, I want to feel more intimate, more bonded, or what it means. That that's typically more inspiring and more motivating, rather than like: Oh, we're going to do the thing I don't have a strong preference for. It's like, what's on the other side of it for our relationship or our partner?
Yeah, and what you might find is, once you try it, you actually like it. James didn't love being vulnerable. I don't know if he still does, but he now sees the value in it.
There's some great rocket fuel to that.
Do you want to say more?
Yeah. For me, feeling vulnerable was like: Oh, I can't, whatever. I mean, I'm just going to assume that most people listening to this have ever met a man that didn't think it was okay to be vulnerable or was never really taught how. So we're just going to make that blanket solid assumption. That lack of openness was really constricting the emotional intimacy that I was willing and able to receive and to give. So we just hit this moment where I cracked the vulnerability, and I'm just a puddle for like, thank you counselor. I was a puddle for weeks, and also the first time in my life I wasn't really craving or desiring sex, just wasn't desiring. There I am vulnerable, and I'm just kind of down-energy, and this is, turns out, the most attractive I've ever been to Angela. This was the most she's ever wanted to, we'll just use the phrase, jump my bones. I'm like, not having it, no. So when I could really harness that opening and be okay with that and not let it be just so hard for myself, and the tension that it brought up, then it allowed us to connect. Then now that we're connected, everything else became more possible.
Thank you for sharing that. I'm touched that you said yes, that there was enough safety in your bond, or whatever the circumstances and whatever risk you took emotionally to open up to that. It's really touching. We sometimes don't say yes.
The first yes led to the opportunity to say the next yes, and then the next one and then the next one. So it's interesting how it's become more of a way of life than just a thing that happens. That was a surprise.
Yeah, it's somehow now a part of the range of where you might exist or be, and it's not so restricted that that's a no-go zone.
Oh absolutely, and being open. I used to, for example, not really share exactly how I felt with Angela to protect her feelings. This is really how I feel, but I'm not going to tell her exactly. Because I can handle it, and I don't know if she can handle it. Kind of in that old storyline pattern. Being more vulnerable and open about even that thing has created more closeness. So at the end, that's what I want. I want to be able to receive love the way that I want, and give it the way that I want and have it be received. This is how we get there.
Yeah, thank you. Angela, do you want to say anything about adding your perspective here?
Well, I think it was somewhat, not to totally gender stereotype, but typical, where I needed the emotional connection and safety to be more available for physical and sexual intimacy, and he was seeking connection through it. That was how he connected, was through sexual.
My emotional intimacy came from it.
So we were just missing each other. We were just missing each other, wanting the same thing ultimately, which was connection and intimacy. But because we were wanting and needing different ways of getting there, we were missing each other. So I think really, us both learning how to show up for each other in that way ended up allowing us to get our own needs met as well. Learning to be vulnerable with me, then all of a sudden, like he said, I found him super attractive. I was like: Oh, that's so sweet.
I see you, I feel you. I want you.
Exactly. At a time when he's like: I'm just an emotional mess here, I can't have sex right now. Then vice versa too. I had to remember that he likes physical touch. He always says, I'm like a puppy. So if we would be in the car, and I'd be like: Oh yeah, put my hand on his leg, or rub the back of his neck, those kind of things. When I did that, and I was giving him that physical affection he was craving, then it also created a more loving, safe space for him to open up and feel safe. To be more vulnerable, which was giving me the emotional intimacy I wanted.
“When we just intentionally put effort into meeting each other in each other's styles, then the wonderful reward of it is, we actually got our own needs met as well.”
Absolutely. Then also, perhaps we develop and grow aspects of ourselves. We learn from the other, develop more strength in areas that we're maybe, again, underdeveloped or just didn't utilize as much. So I'm grateful that you both have been able to share so personally, and such an example. Also what's on the other side, again, in the practice of developing this. It's really a positive cycle. It's generative in the sense that as you both are contributing, likely we want to continue to give and reciprocate and nurture. I think it is really encouraging for the system of the couple. I'm grateful that you have workshopped this so much that people can, it sounds like it's more or less, not plug and play. It's not without their intentionality and effort and energy. But so much of the terrain has been laid out. Is that how I'm understanding? Do you want to say more about the DIY?
Well, our process has been developed from our cycle of rupture, repair, and back to love. Without not being an option in this choice to live an intentional, deeply connected, intimate life together, that's the basis of the experience that we show up with. Thank you for asking about our DIY course. Go ahead.
Yeah. So I was going to say, that's our annual, that's our bread and butter to our relationship. Then recently, we've developed an intentional intimacy course. So it's just an online, five-week, go at your own pace. That's really come from all this work we have done, personally and with clients, around intimacy. Realizing, for us, that because intimacy can carry such big feelings and even wounds for people, it is sometimes a hard topic to address on your own. Our own personal story of going to our DIY retreat every year, our own one, and we'd be rocking at nine out of 10 areas, and then the one area that was a struggle was sex and intimacy. Year after year, realizing that, and then finally going: You know what, I think we need help. So we hired a counselor.
She would cry, and I would get frustrated, and we'd be like, it wouldn't work.
But we were doing so well in all the other areas.
Everywhere else.
So we'd just go back to focusing on those. But eventually, we were like, we need help, we are clearly not figuring this out on our own. So for anyone else out there who this is a struggle for them, I think my encouragement would be to, if you can, seek some outside help with it. Because it is a topic that can be hard to navigate on your own. Like I said, it can carry a lot of triggers and wounds for people.
It really matters who says it in this department of relationships too. So when we get to say things that you might've been trying to say for years, it can land in a new way.
Yeah, so we got a therapist, we did an online course with some coaches around the topic. Ended up going on to get ourselves trained in being intimacy coaches. So we've developed this five-week course with that intention. Especially, it's lower resourced items. So for people that maybe going to ongoing therapy is hard financially or you just want to try to do a self-guided thing on your own, that was our intention is how can we make this work accessible where people can learn these tools and try them out, that are just struggling to get there on their own. Because we get that. Because like I said, it can be a touchy topic for a lot of couples.
I'll make sure to put the link on today's show notes. What is it called?
It's called Intentional Intimacy.
Intentional Intimacy Course, based on what we're talking about here today, I think is one of the best things. If I had one please-do from this podcast, we have an Intentional Intimacy Style Quiz. So if you're curious what style really resonates with you, that would be the one thing I would love for you to do. It's free. Then from that, if it really resonates with you and you like what we're talking about, check out that Intentional Intimacy Course. For couples that are really wanting to create that relationship north star, get some momentum in the direction of where they're building their life, the three-night DIY Retreat would be where we would start. We have one for newlyweds, and then we have one for entrepreneurial couples. It's typically just who gets attracted to this style of work, but entrepreneurial couples would work for any couple.
Great! So these are also programs that can be purchased online?
Correct.
They're on our website.
Great. And what's your website? I'll make sure, again, to put this on today's show for people who listen.
Awesome, wonderful! Well, thank you so much. It's been great to chat with you. I can tell just how much you've really lived into this and are being able to offer such guidance and clarity and support in this developing the north star and the intentionality.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having us, Jessica. It was a great time. You've got a beautiful podcast, and can't wait to hear this on there. It'll be great and it'll be fun.
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