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About this episode

Are you finding it difficult to maintain a fulfilling and harmonious relationship amidst the daily hustle and bustle of life? It's a common struggle that many people face: balancing personal growth with the demands of nurturing long-term intimacy. How do we rise above the noise and negativity that often cloud our interactions, both with others and within ourselves?

In this episode, we delve into transformative strategies for enhancing your life's happiest moments and boosting the quality of your relationships using a Heliotropic Approach. This insightful conversation explores the power of being a more uplifting force—focusing on kindness, gratitude, and generating positivity. Stay tuned as Dr. Harry Cohen and Dr. Jessica Higgins break down simple yet profound practices to help you navigate challenges and transform them into opportunities for deepening intimacy and personal development. Join in as the conversation strives to create more positive, energizing connections in life and relationships.

Dr. Harry Cohen, Ph.D. Psychologist, Executive Coach, Restauranter and Author of Be The Sun, Not The Salt, a short, straightforward yet profound guide for being your best self, uplifting others, and behaving in a manner that draws others toward you and makes you happier and more effective.

Episode Highlights

06:16 Introducing Dr. Harry Cohen and his multidisciplinary background.

07:45 The heliotropic effect and embracing kindness.

12:46 Being present and heart-centered in interactions.

15:18 The power of words and self-reflection.

19:23 Feeding the right wolf: the power of choice.

21:40 Creating positive narratives in everyday life.

25:35 The impact of positivity on our relationships and environment.

26:44 Navigating negativity bias and fostering positivity.

31:48 The significance of gratitude and presence in practice.

34:54 Responding to crisis with grace and equanimity.

39:46 Lighting up relationships: deep listening and positive interactions.

44:57 The importance of acknowledgment in relationships.

46:06 Practical advice: apologizing and remembering who you are.

Your Check List of Actions to Take

• Intentionally focus on being present in every interaction, putting away distractions like your phone, to deepen connections and improve communication.
• Regularly seek ways to be kind and uplifting to others, making it a daily habit to smile, say kind words, or perform small acts of service.
• Practice acknowledging your emotions without letting them dictate your reactions, especially in situations that could lead to negative responses.
• In intimate relationships, ask your partner, “Is there anything I can do for you today?” to show you value their needs and want to support them.
• Regularly identify what you are grateful for, shifting focus from what you lack to what you have, to foster a positive mindset.
• When you make mistakes, genuinely apologize without justifications or excuses to strengthen trust and repair relationships.
• Be vigilant about your language, both spoken and internal, to ensure it aligns with positive and empowering thoughts and actions.
• Recognize any pet peeves you have and consciously work to release them, reducing unnecessary negativity and irritation in your life.

Mentioned

Be the Sun, Not the Salt (*Amazon Affiliate link) (audio book)

Breńe Brown

Ethan Kross

ERP 123: Forgive For Love With Dr. Fred Luskin

ERP 089: How to use Love Languages to strengthen connection

Evolve in Love (program)

Connect with Dr. Harry Cohen

Websites: bethesunnotthesalt.com

Instagram: instagram.com/bethesunnotthesalt

Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/be-the-sun-not-the-salt/id1713906591

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

If you have a topic you would like it to be discussed, please contact us by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here. 

Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship. 

Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here. 

Thank you!  

*With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon, if you purchase the book from this link.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Harry Cohen, thank you for joining us.

It's my absolute pleasure, Jessica. I love that I get to do this in my life, as we were chatting briefly. It's quite amazing that you get lucky enough to live your ideal life. So this is just cherry on top.

I so appreciate that, and I can really feel from you just how you live into these principles. Just the languaging and the gratitude that you're exuding, it's great to just see an example of.

Well, you and I know, if we lived a few years, and I've lived decades now, that you really figure stuff out later in life that you wish you learned earlier. One of the things I figured out is, it doesn't matter what I've learned, it matters how I live. To really learn something, I should live in a way that makes you say what you just said, which is: Wow, you seem to really believe and live this stuff. That's the whole idea.

Yes, yes, yes. You really distilled this into a recent book, and you come from a multidisciplinary approach. Do you want to share a little bit about your background, for people who are just getting to know you here and where you're coming from?

Sure. I went to Cornell undergrad, got a psych degree. Went to University of Michigan for graduate school, got a PhD in psychology. Was a family therapist, marital therapist, overall therapist for 20 years or so in private practice. Then started doing corporate executive coaching, teaching in the corporate world. A lot of motivational speaking, then executive coaching. Then opened a restaurant, in 2008, to practice all these principles in the real world. Then a company that I was consulting with, and for, purchased me. They bought the intellectual property of Be the Sun: Not the Salt, this book based on the TED talk that I gave, and it is the distillation of my life's work. So now I get to spread this to their 10,000 employees and their customers, and anybody who wants to be more fulfilled and happier and more effective in their relationships, personally or professionally, including their relationship with themselves. I distilled it. I figured it out. I discovered what all I've been trying to articulate to others in my coaching and therapy practice, so that now I get to practice articulating it more better, more concisely.

Just recently, last week I heard this phrase, which I will now use until I can get a better one. This material is so easy, it's easy to not do. I love that. I mean, we all know the power of being kind. In the background around this, why I was so excited to discover the Heliotropic effect, which is this tendency for all living systems to be drawn to energy, which sustains life, including human beings, it's so beautiful and simple and obvious and empirically true. So if people understood it, their lives would be better. Damn! Just as important is, don't be a dick. Don't be salting other people's roots. Don't be rude, disrespectful, and unkind. Hence the metaphor, Be the Sun: Not the Salt. I just find more effective ways to articulate this, and to your point earlier, practice this.

I'm married 45 years, to my wife Jan, this August. And I just figured out last year, this is a phrase I now say every single morning. Anything you need for me to do for you today? Now, how come I never figured that out? It's so easy, and yet I never did it. Now I do it. Jan will say whatever, and it's easy for me and everybody wins. It's so great. I learned to come an hour and a half before my plane leaves. That's brilliant, you're rushing less. There's more where that came from. Hold the door. Smile at a stranger.  You think negative stuff about your partner or a colleague or a friend, you don't need to say it. This is what Buddha said thousands of years ago. Make sure that before you speak, words have to pass through three gates. May they be truthful, may they be necessary, and may they be kind. Only if they pass through those three gates, may they leave your lips. I just love that. It's the same stuff repackaged, so that more people can go: Well, I could do that. You don't need to sign up for any course. You don't need to take a class. You don't even need to read my little booklet. You can just look at the cover or be reminded. What does that guy say? Be the Sun: Not the Salt. Be uplifting and kind, and 1% less of the snarky self that we are all wired to be.

Well, I'm so appreciative of you referencing the Buddhist philosophy and the three gates before speaking. That what you're describing, when I am in better practice of these, I'm much more present. I'm much more in the moment. I'm much more in a place of heart-centered service and how I can be supportive in a generative way.

That's it. What you just said, there's no technique. Well, there's lots of ways to do what you just said, which is be more centered, be present, be aware of how you can be. I'm not sure what word you used, but helpful in a generative way. This is our, every human being's, challenge, opportunity, responsibility, to get better at being present. What does that mean? Put away your phone. Look at the person in the eye. Listen to how you're feeling. Listen to how they're feeling. Take it in. I mean, this is really basic stuff.

And so incredibly powerful! Because you're saying, even in the language of I get, it's calling us into purpose and power that I loved in your beginning of your book, of just you referencing. It's not only that you get to add value to others, but that you are becoming more increased in yourself.

I think it's so true and beautiful and never-ending. I'm never done with this material. Every single morning since the first of last year, not just this year. Because one of our podcast guests did this with her military team. What day is it? Well, what do you mean? Well, it's chapter whatever. Today is the 23rd, and I'd open up Chapter 23. I couldn't tell you what it is. Because even though I wrote the book, I don't remember these chapters. They're one-page long. Today's was: Keep your Cool. So I read a little note about how I can practice this so that I can keep my cool today when stuff goes awry. I told you earlier, our pipes burst and there was water in the lower level, and you can't use water where I'm sitting. That's okay, I got another house, and me keeping my cool is what I get to practice today. Tomorrow, it's another chapter to remind me to lean into, to your point, being present, being aware, being generative, being virtuous in the way I already am.

The cool part about this is you don't have to be anybody else. You don't have to learn a new language. You just have to be 1% more thoughtful, 1% more kind, 1% more present—there's no downside, it's all upside—1% less sarcastic, 1% less irritated. Like: Okay, all right. All right, take a breath. I was talking to somebody else, shorten the time from when a bird poops on your head to when you start to smile. You are like: Oh man, I got it to five seconds. Let's see if I can get it to five milliseconds. For somebody else, it would be five minutes, five hours, five days. I mean, stuff happens.

We're going to interview Ethan Cross. He's a great psychologist, professor at University of Michigan, where we are. He wrote a book, Chatter, but his new book is about shift. Emotional regulation is what it's all about, and I'm reading it to prepare for the podcast. It's all this stuff. We get triggered. Humans get triggered, and then we become our less wonderful self. Ta-da. So now, since we know we all get triggered, try and get triggered less. 

So there's endless ways for us to practice this, Jessica. For your audience, they can go: Wow, I could do this! You sure can. Take a breath and smile at somebody, watch what happens. Say a kind word. Send a note. Send them a text. Any of these. Do the positive things or refrain from doing the negative things, they're both great. So we can get into some more specifics.

I want to get into more specifics, yes. Well, one of the things I want to just hear your voice on a little bit, and one of the messages I got from you that I'm hearing in what you're describing now, is that it is possible and we all have the potential to strengthen the practice, and that it's reinforcing. I love that message that some people identify with: Oh, I'm a little bit more stubborn, or I'm a little bit more irritable, or these type of things. Truth be told, I think from the human evolutionary standpoint, we do have a negative bias. So the pool of looking for threats and trying to track is something that lives in us, and the choice to continue to flex these muscles gives more strength.

That's it in a nutshell. We are wired to see the glass half-empty. What? We are wired to see the glass half-empty. Well, that's not very positive. Yes, I know. We're wired to see threats, anxieties, fears, rumination. It's a built-in fact. So a way to deal with the way we're wired, so that it doesn't throw us off and take us down the dark road, these are the ways you go: Oh right, I don't have to go there! Just because my body reacted emotionally to someone who just cut me off, I immediately have this choice. And what you just said, we have a choice, which is the ultimate freedom. I don't need to feed the bad wolf. I don't need to work up a froth, create a story about how that no-goodnik should have been looking where they were going, that person should have been on time, that person shouldn't have left the door, blah, blah, blah. Every one of these little moments are like: Oh, right!

Like you even said it, when you hear someone say with their own self-critical words: I'm very stubborn, now hold on a second. That's a heavy load. Really, is it stubborn in a good way or stubborn in a bad way? I'm stubbornly loving. I'm so stubborn in my love. Well, that's a great stubborn quality you have. I'm stubbornly virtuous. Awesome! Versus I'm stubborn in what I believe. Yikes! That means you can't flex. You're not very curious. So you've got to watch what you say to yourself. You'll hear other people say stuff that you go: Oh, that's self-fulfilling. I'm bad with names. It's one of those sentences. I'm not good at seeing the silver lining in dark clouds. Yikes! Words have power. Now, everyone knows this. If you don't, we're telling you. Words have power. The words you say out loud, and the words you say to yourself. So be mindful of what words you say to yourself, and words you say out loud.

So once you discover all these great ways, easy ways to re-center and to build on the positive attributes that you already have, the better. It's like running downhill. This is easy. Once you get it, you'll discover: Oh my God, there's so many more ways that I can be more positive, energizing, uplifting to others, and more ways that I can refrain from being a bit of a jerk. They're all great. Do what works for us. You can rattle them off. But doesn't matter what I say, it matters what people and your listeners do, and then do some more of it. So test it out in the laboratory of your own life, and when something works, do it again.

Yes. Well, I'm sure many people, just to go back a moment, are familiar with the wolves, and I would love for you to briefly share that. When you talk about claiming a statement, full stop, it feels so much like a closed door, versus giving much more room for possibility and for it to have, again, this synergistic generative flow that we are connected. Because really, people take their cue from us, and we also take a cue from ourselves. So when you talk about language being powerful, this is really setting up what we're experiencing in a way that I don't know that we're always very aware of the power of.

I know. So this is hopefully going to reset some of your audience to go: Oh my God, I'm going to pay more attention to my words and what I say. Good, that's great. So pay attention. Listen carefully to what others and you say. That's a great thing. Without judgment, just listen.

The ancient parable of the two wolves that I referenced, that you asked me to speak about. A grandson asks the ancient sage grandfather of any tradition, what's the secret to life? The grandfather answers, there's a battle that rages within us, two wolves. One wolf represents love and compassion and generosity and kindness and curiosity and acceptance, and the other wolf represents the evil, dark side of humanity, which means cynicism and sarcasm and disgust and evil, etc. So which wolf wins, the young grandson asks. The grandfather says, the one you feed. That simple metaphor of feeding the good wolf or the bad wolf, which is not to say there are bad emotions. Let me be crystal clear. Toxic positivity is real.

Thank you, I was going to ask about bypassing and all of that.

Oh, very important. Toxic positivity is the denial of all negative emotions. It's garbage. Negative emotions are signals. Signals that we're supposed to listen to and make sense of. It's important that we don't tell stories about those negative emotions or want them to go away or to listen to them. But when I say feed the bad wolf, if somebody cuts me off, feeding the bad wolf would be: That son of a gun, why the hell? Going into a long dissertation about somebody I don't know, working myself into a mental frenzy about what a no-goodnik that person is. That's feeding the bad wolf. Don't do it. That's the choice that we have. 

So conversely, can you give us an example of what that would look like? I mean, I have my own idea. If I'm driving and someone cuts me off and it's scary, I might be: Oh, that scared me, or I feel concerned about that interaction and acknowledge the discomfort or the fear. Then what story or how I move forward in my life, that there's a difference there around what the meaning I make of that.

Here's the difference. Literally watch what happens to you and start to say and think. You go: Harry, he probably didn't see you. Okay, that's assuming positive intent. Harry, he probably didn't see you. Whoa, that was close! Wave. Remember to wave, no big deal.

Not the middle finger.

No, I'm glad you said that. Not the middle finger, do not give him. See, I'm going to tell you what to do and what not to do. Don't give him the middle finger. Don't swear out loud. Don't mutter under your breath. Don't say or think, what an ass! Don't do any of that. Instead, say: Whoa, that was close! He probably didn't see me. Whew, I've done that myself. Give the wave, not the finger. All of which is settling you down and saying, wow, that was really good.

To unpack that, the woe, that that was close, is that an acknowledgement?

Yeah. Oh my God, my heart was in my throat. Oh my God, I am freaked out. I almost crashed because the guy just cut me off. Whoa is just acknowledging: Whew, that was close! I'm not denying. Wow, that was something that was negative, that was rotten, that was inconsiderate, that was dangerous of him. It might have been dangerous, but we don't know why he did it or she did. We don't know.

But it's the behavior rather than the character attack.

It's so important for you not to create, because I've seen it with myself and others, this whole narrative, which is a story that we tell about how other people are no-goodniks. And what that creates is a whole posture that there are sons of b*tches out there, and you've got to watch out because they're going to rip you off or run you down or take advantage of you. I don't want to live my life like that. There are people like that. I'm not going to be one of them. What am I? How am I teaching? Well, I don't have any young kids anymore, but one day I'll have grandkids. One day I'd like for my grandkids to see: Wow, grandpa is chill!

Yes. It reminds me, in one of my graduate programs, my PhD in clinical psychology, I had a professor, Dr. Fred Luskin, who really did a lot for forgiveness. One of his analogies that just really stuck with me, I don't know if you know his work, but he basically makes it like this. When we are writing traffic violations to others, but we're not actually a police officer, we have nowhere to put them. So it's like we're stuffing our glove compartment with all these violations that we're carrying with us. Then at some point, we open it and we're like, look at all these violations I've been carrying around. They impact our ability, that we're harboring all these resentments and we're not offering a lot of this space for benefit of the doubt, forgiveness, acceptance of mistakes. This righteousness and justice, it can get really heavy.

Look, I love this empirical work, especially if he's a professor who's proven this is the case. We know this to be true. But my background was in clinical psychology, and I wanted to understand the empirical nature of why people behave the way they do, and how we can leverage tools and resources and ancient and new wisdom to allow people to live fulfilled and successful and happy lives. It turns out there's so much available, including don't stuff your glove compartment with imaginary tickets. That's just another beautiful image of people who carry around a little bag of resentment, they walk around with a clipboard, judging other people and evaluating. It's such a drag for ourselves. Let it go. Well, how do you do it? Just let it go. Just practice letting it go. That's what we're talking about.

People say, well, it's not that easy. That's okay. Even though it's not that easy, do your best and try it again. Well, it's not that easy. That's okay. The fact that it's not that easy for you, it'll get easier over time, all this stuff. Smile at someone who just cut you off, wave to them. Well, I can't do that. Yes, you can. I bet one day you'll learn to just wave at them and not let them fry your potatoes. This is what we're after, which is both immediate and long-term. The glove compartment metaphor, it's immediate. Don't write the ticket, metaphorically, and don't save the ticket. Just say: You know what, I'm going to let them off with a warning today, if we're on the same damn metaphor. You know how you get pulled over by a cop and they go: Just slow it down, buddy. Wow, nice cop! Be that cop. You were driving really fast. Oh my God, I deserve a ticket. Hey, be the cop that doesn't give you a ticket. Just be that person. Be this magnificent human being, by the way, that you already are.

So if I think I'm a 90, great Harry, go for 91. Well, I'm a 96. Great, go for 97. Why? Because 1% is great. It feels great to be just a smidgen more thoughtful, a smidgen less of that person who writes the ticket. Who likes to be around a person who's writing tickets, literally, metaphorically clipboard-y? Ew, right?

Right. I appreciate when you're speaking about, we're not necessarily evaluating good and bad or right and wrong, what you're really honing in on is life-sustaining, positive, energizing ways of being. So it's not, again, right or wrong. It's just looking at, in one's own measure, around how am I engaging in ways that are life-giving and being the sun.

Exactly. When you are around certain people and you feel great when you're around them, there's a reason you feel great around them. Be that person. What do you mean? I'm not that. Yes, you are. You're already a lovely human being when you're paying attention, when you're listening, when you're curious, when you're loving, compassionate. All these virtues that they've studied, that our psychology mentors have studied. Oh my God, when people are curious and really listening, we feel listened to, which feels great, duh. When someone is grateful and says: Thank you, I really appreciate that. We feel better. We can be grateful, and there's so many ways to enhance our own gratitude practice.

But it's not just one thing. What about compassion? Which is better, compassion or gratitude? They're both great. Well, which is better, curiosity or generosity? Yes. What about authenticity, isn't that good? Yes. Well, what about Brene Brown and vulnerability? Yes, they're all wonderful. There's not a limit on any of these virtues. It's like: Oh my God, you mean I can be even more vulnerable? Absolutely. Especially with people who aren't going to take advantage of you, yes. Vulnerability creates pure connection. I mean, as a therapist, the more you would just tell people your story, people go: Oh my God, I can't believe you have problems too. Yeah. So I just hope that you get this.

Well, and I appreciate it. It goes back to what you were describing about these principles and concepts and practices being simple but so profound, and that we have a sense of them already. I love the idea, I actually was thinking the same thing, that perhaps the book could be out somewhere. I love that it's 30 days, so you could kind of look.

The person who helped me create this book created the cover so that you could just look at it and go, got it. Which is, you can't tell a book by its cover. Yes, you can. You don't have to read the book. You can open up to any page, any chapter, any time, or just look at the cover and be reminded. I want to be someone, a wise sage, that does stuff that uplifts the living organism, and not do stuff that makes the living organism shrivel and die.

For people who are listening and not visually seeing what you're pointing to, can you describe the cover?

It's a yellow book, bright yellow, signifying the sun, and a picture of a tree that's half thriving and healthy, and the other half is dying and dead. Salt shaker on top of the dying and dead side, and sun on the thriving side. With a little owl in the corner, signifying wisdom. That's it, a reminder to be a force that uplifts and energizes the other.

And why isn't it helpful to have more reminders? There's so much in the world that's pulling us towards competition, towards negative bias, towards feeling righteous or feeling controlling or complaining. So to have more support and reminders to be in this life-giving, sustainable energy is so helpful.

Really critical, great point you just made. Media and social media is driven by the algorithm of outrage. What? They love outrage, so they are designed to stimulate your Oh my God, ain't that awful! Did you hear, did you see? Did you hear what he said? Did you hear what he did? Did you hear what he did?

The shock value.

The shock and outrage, it leads crisis and horrible and story and negative. So that's just the media, let alone other people. Other people love to gossip and talk crap about other people. So you are right. 

Amulets, sound, smells, the book, books, your podcast. Anything that reminds you, reminds us: Wait a minute, look at the bounty in my life. Pictures of your family, pictures of loved ones, pictures of nature, nature itself. Exemplars in your life, role models. People who evoke, that literally bring out from within, a good memory, a good feeling, a good sense, a good oh yeah!

There's so much benefit to this. I'm thinking, and I know we want to get to a little bit more of your specifics, so that people have a taste of what they would be in for if they were to get your book or just be in practice of these principles a little more. The thing I'm feeling in this moment is, if we are in practice of this more frequently, the state of which our nervous system is in and our physiological state is benefited so greatly. This is for our health—for our health individually, for our health relationally, which we're going to be focusing on a little bit more—but just the ripple effect here. You were sharing before we started, just how grateful you are at this point in time for your health and all the abundance. This is part of the practice.

Yes, this is part of the practice, my practice, not my practice, everyone's practice, where you focus on the things that you have in your life, not the things that you don't have. It turns out, that changes the way you look at the world. You tend to see more of what you have, not what you don't have. The act of complaining versus the act of being grateful changes your internal makeup. Well, which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Yes, they both. So I'm now more wired to see the silver lining, glass half-full, my bounty, all that I have. I am less wired to see the glass half-empty. Even though my body ain't going to change, and my body will react negatively if I hear a snap in the woods. If somebody criticizes me, I'm not going to say: Oh well, that's just your opinion. My body will react. But what you said is that the more we practice this as a daily moment to moment way of being, without a heavy hand, but with a light touch, the easier it gets to approach all circumstances when we get triggered, to go: Ah yes, I used to get upset by this, not anymore.

That's the beauty of this. Today's chapter, keep your cool. The example I give is the Sullenberger on the Hudson. When he landed that plane, this is a famous pilot whose both engines went out and he had to land the plane on the Hudson River in America, and no one died. He was cool and collected because he'd practiced this. Our job is to practice this. So when we lose both our engines, we tell everybody on the plane: Everybody just take your seats, brace for impact. I got this.

Yes, I have another story that might fit with this. As many people might know, and I know this episode won't be aired for about two months, so probably, as we're listening live, that it'll be a little dated. But my friend, I'm in California, and she spent many, many years in LA. They've had these recent fires. We have a shared friend who lost her home, like full-on burned everything. Family, husband, children, everybody health-wise was okay. I had asked her about how she was doing, and she said: Well, they're in Hawaii. She's holding it with a level of equanimity, and it's so incredibly powerful. She's like, this is the second time they've lost everything. They had a really bad experience with toxic mold. But then her further comment was, maybe it's the tea ceremony.

So there's this practice of tea ceremony and the mindfulness and the gratitude, it's another form of cultivating some of the things that we're talking about. When we are speaking of the ticket metaphor, it's an attempt to control when we can't control, and fighting against it when really we have no ability to change that circumstance. So we're creating a lot of suffering internally, and to this point about how we're impacted and other people are impacted from that suffering. So it's just a recent example that's fresh in my mind, of how if we're in practice of this, hence the pilot, when perhaps a larger crisis happens, we will perhaps be able to access a little bit more of this equanimity and being able to hold. Not that the pain isn't real, and also the practice of where we go in our psyche and the stories we're telling and how we perpetuate our experience.

I love that you said equanimity. Because that's the purpose of this work and practice, to maintain our equanimity no matter what. Now that's just lifelong. I mean, luckily, I have so much in my world that I don't have to deal with that horrible, horrible, horrible. But there have been difficult times in my life where loved ones were suffering mightily, and I did rely on this because of this practice. I had more, I wouldn't say complete equanimity, during my crises because of this practice. I mean, it's such an easy and fruitful way to live. It costs nothing. Benefits are huge. Requires very little effort. A lot of people are turned off by it. You mean I've got to write a gratitude journal? No, you don't have to do that. What do I have to do? Nothing. You don't have to do nothing. You can just take a breath and look around more. To your point, stay present with the person you're with. How about that? How about, whomever you're with, listen to them deeply with deep curiosity and love and compassion. Just do that as best you can. Watch what happens to that relationship.

I love it. So let's get into some of these specifics, you've given us so many. You just mentioned one that is, in your book, titled, I think it's number 29, Olympic Listener. You're saying deep listening. Do you want to say any more about that practice?

Yes. You could spend the rest of your life working on being a better listener, so could I. That means there's both technique and skill and intention and practice, and all of you who are listening know how to listen. Imagine you take your own listening to a deeper level, i.e. you take the cellphone away anytime you're talking to someone. Research has shown that apparently, I didn't know this, it changes the experience of two people who are talking, even if the cellphone is face-down. I used to, when I'd have an executive coaching session, I would be like: Oh, it's face-down. Yeah, but it vibrates. You don't think my attention is pulled away? So technique-wise, look someone in the eye.

Put the phone away or in another room.

Put the phone away, or put it in another room ideally, where you can't see it. Look someone in the eye. Intend to become a better, deeper listener. That means speak less, ask more questions. Ask the person with whom you are talking to and listening, did you feel like I listened to you? Because the answer will be revealing. If there's a pause, well, that means you could have done a better job.

Yeah, and just even the ask is a form of deep listening. I use this multiple times in any given day with my clients. I'm like, am I with you, am I getting that? Tell me. So I'm checking it out with them, because I'm doing my very best, but I realize some of it I may be not quite spot on. Most of the time, I feel like I'm pretty close. But still, there could be layers, and when someone hears it reflected back, perhaps they never even said the thing, but they're recognizing: Oh, but this is the part I really wanted you to get that I didn't say.

I like that we can get better at all of this. So listening is just one you picked up. But I love that I can be a better listener, and I made my life about listening. I heard a great quote recently, one of our podcast guests. Listening is an active devotion.

It's a huge gift. It is healing. It is definitely an active devotion, I would absolutely agree.

That is a great way to practice being more heliotropic, being more sun, being more uplifting, just by saying, I'm going to be a better listener. Okay, what does that look like? Whatever you're going to say or do, Hallelujah.

Yeah, all right. Just a moment ago, you were also talking about positivity and how we have such an ability to help light someone up or lift someone up. So number 6, Light Someone Up. I picked this one to perhaps ask you about it as it relates to intimate relationship. Because unfortunately, I think we tend to automate a little bit naturally in relationships. Especially, I mean, a beautiful example, 45 years. I'm close to, I think almost 18 or 19. It can be easy to get into this default mode of I know, or automate. We maybe are a little more casual with our significant other, and so perhaps we don't always put this attention or focus on our significant other. So would you share a little bit more about the power of lighting someone up?

Everybody is different. Some people, you know about the love languages, I don't know if that's empirical or not. But the point of love languages is, some people feel love from others with kind words, acts of service, tailored gifts. Some people like quality time, and some people like physical touch. Everybody is different. But you can light up anybody by just smiling at them, or saying kind words, or giving them a gift or anything. I love doing this. I love buying somebody in line behind me, whatever it is. Usually it's coffee, but I love that: Oh my God, you don't need to do that. That's so sweet. That's so kind. Yeah, I know, I wanted to.

Or to ask your spouse, how might I be able to help you today or be of service to you today? I mean, the fact that she answers you is so beautiful and glorious.

Every single morning. What's great about it is that it's very concrete and it's easy stuff that I can do. Would you get the wet laundry from the burst pipes and bring it over? Yeah, I can do that. Thank you for that. I would remember that. But I just started doing that. I mean, I don't light my wife Jan up enough, and I know that I could. Looking for ways to praise her that is pure, genuine, authentic praise. Not self-serving praise, but really opportunities. You did a really nice job with your mother. Her mother is 91, and she goes and visits and does service, and she just recently did that. Then I remembered to say, you really did a great job with your mom. Just a fact. But I can do that more, and I love it because it's endless opportunities with intimates, friends too. You can tell friends why you appreciate them, why they're important to you.

With children. With direct reports. With colleagues. To feel noticed and to feel affirmed and acknowledged. Again, I don't know that it happens enough.

Never does. Nobody says, I get enough positive reinforcement and praise with specificity. The easiest thing to do is when you give somebody a compliment, give them the why with specificity. Let me just do my wife. I mean, I love that you go visit your mom for several reasons. It's really so loving. It's really beautiful for her. I don't have to go, and I appreciate that too, and it's generous that you do that for me. I want you to know how much I appreciate that you do that. Now, it doesn't take more than 30 seconds to do that.

I will say, when I am in a place where I can acknowledge perhaps my spouse's action or effort or characteristic, but if I can go that step further and say, here's what it means to me or here's how it's significant to me, I typically am feeling the emphasis of that gift and I'm expanding it for myself. But it's also making a difference to share that, obviously, with someone else. So again, I think these things are win-win-wins.

They're win, win, win. You feel good, he feels good, and anybody around us feels good, and even the story about it feels good. This conversation is making me think, when I go back to my home after our interview is done, I am going to light my wife up in a way. I've yet to figure out what I'm going to say, but I'm going to say something.

Yes, the kindness, the generosity that can be offered. So we probably have time for one more. Which one would you like to speak about? Number 7, Apologize Well? Or number 21, Release Your Pet Peeves.

Well, they're both negative. I want to do those two negatives, and I'll do one other. Somebody asked me recently what's your favorite chapter, so I'll tell you that. So one is Release Your Pet Peeves. 

I don't need to say anything more. Just get off your high horse. We all get on them, including me. Just realize you're just creating a story to keep you more resentful. You're the one who suffers. That's pet peeves, they're garbage. When you hear yourself: You know, what's a pet peeve of mine? Oh wait, that guy said lose it, they're not your friend.

Okay, number two, Apologize Well. We all screw up. Our screw-ups are our teachers. The best thing we can learn to do is say it very concisely. I was wrong, I'm sorry. Not I'm sorry, but… I'm sorry you feel that way for whatever I did. I'm sorry. I guess I'm sorry. I'm sorry it happened. What do you mean it happened? Please, people don't take responsibility when they screw up. The simple advice is, when you screw up—when we screw up, because we will—quickly, I'm sorry, and move on.

The last thing I would say is, what's my favorite chapter? I don't know what number it is. I think it's 24, which is, might be tomorrow, Remember Who You Are. Let me just see if it is. It is why it's most important to me. Yeah, 24, it's tomorrow's chapter. This is the kit and the caboodle. If you remember who you are, your identity really impacts your conduct. If you think you're a really good thief, you're going to look for opportunities to rip off stuff. If you think of yourself, and most people do, as a good person, as a kind, thoughtful, considerate, whatever virtue person, and most people do, awesome. What would that person do? How would that person behave? If you are this magnificent person, and most people think of themselves as pretty good people, that's all you've got to do. So let's end remembering who you are. Everybody who's listening is like: Oh, that's right, I am a good person. Exactly, and how does a good person act? Just look at that and do that some more. That's it.

Oh, I love it. Wonderful! Harry, how can people get your book and get in touch with what you have to offer?

Go to BeTheSunNotTheSalt.com, all one word. There's tons of free stuff, you can get anything and everything you need. The book is 15 bucks. On Audible, it's four bucks. But there's also merch. I just started journaling. You can get a journal. Apparently, journaling is really good for you, and I just started journaling and it's been very helpful. But what I would say is, go to BeTheSunNotTheSalt.com, pick up a book, subscribe. We've got short one-minute me doing videos on stuff, 10-minute podcast pieces, and then 40-or 60-minute interview podcasts, all to help remind and reinforce, like what you do. Put us in a good state of mind.

I love it. I love the swag, and you even have a mug. So it's all these reminders.

Yes, they're reminders. They remind me, I drink out of this mug, today is a good day to do good. That's chapter one. You know what I mean? Like, just try to do good today. So I use this stuff to remind me because it's easy to forget.

Yes, beautiful. Well, I'll make sure to have all of those links on today's show notes. Thank you so much for sharing all that you've shared with us today.

Thank you, Jessica. Let's go do some more good.