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Why is it that talking about desire and intimacy with your partner can feel more intimidating than any other conversation in a relationship, even when you’ve shared years—or decades—together? So many couples silently struggle with mismatched libido, lost spark, or simply the discomfort of broaching sensitive topics about sex and pleasure. When left unspoken, these issues have the power to erode connection and joy in long-term relationships. If you’ve ever wondered why desire seems to fade, or why candid discussions about passion feel off-limits, you’re not alone.

In this episode, listeners are invited to explore how couples can move beyond just talking about desire and actually grow it together. Through stories, scientific insights, and actionable strategies, the conversation unpacks the barriers to open communication about sexuality—from shame and defensiveness to the physical and emotional roots of low libido. Along the way, listeners will learn how to build safety, cultivate presence, and consciously turn toward intimacy, laying the foundation for a relationship that’s vibrant, resilient, and full of authentic connection. Whether you’re seeking new energy with your partner or looking for tools to nurture your own sexual self-awareness, this episode is packed with practical guidance to help you rediscover your spark—together.

Dr. Diane Mueller, ND, DAOM, is a board-certified sexologist with dual doctorates in Naturopathic as well as Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine. She is the founder of the sex education center: MyLibidoDoc.com and hosts ‘The Libido Lounge' podcast, where she helps monogamous couples create more passion, desire, hotter sex, and better communication.

Episode Highlights

06:23 Dr. Diane Mueller’s journey from healing vulvar pain to embracing sexual wellness.

07:48 Navigating relationship styles and lessons learned from open relationships in the pursuit of lasting passion.

10:34 The importance of open sexual communication and overcoming shame in relationships.

16:27 Building a foundation of safety and how positive feedback strengthens sexual communication.

25:24 Presence and pleasure, and the mindfulness connection for enhancing sexual experience.

30:13 Embracing emotions in sexuality, including the role of anger and emotional expression in intimacy.

36:12 Identifying dissociation and cultivating presence to deepen sexual experience.

37:47 Harnessing sex for healing by using altered states and partner practices for growth.

41:36 Personal growth and relationship success with reflections on healing, compatibility, and lasting love.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

• Start open and honest conversations about sex and desire with your partner to reduce shame and taboo.
• Give specific, positive feedback after intimacy to build safety and connection.
• Clearly discuss and define your relationship agreements and boundaries together.
• Practice being present during intimate moments through mindful breathing or grounding exercises.
• Try a sensual touch practice, like giving each other foot massages, while focusing on sensation and awareness.
• Reflect on any personal beliefs or shame around sexuality and seek ways to address or release them.
• Take time to identify your own turn-ons and communicate these clearly to your partner.
• Use physical intimacy as an opportunity to process emotions, such as through movement, sound, or affirmations.

Mentioned

Sex for One: The Joy of Selfloving (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Revive Your Love Life: 5 Easy Steps for Mind-Blowing Orgasms and Romance (link) (Free ebook)

The Libido Quiz (quiz)

YourUnique Sex Language (quiz)

Libido Lounge (podcast)

ERP 489: Flow State and Sexual Connection: A New Dimension of Intimacy — An Interview with Emily Jamea

ERP 362: Understanding & Increasing Sexual Desire — An Interview with Dr. Lori Brotto

Evolve in Love (program)

Evolve In Love Discovery Session with Dr. Jessica Higgins (Acuity booking link)

Connect with Dr. Diane Mueller

Websites: mylibidodoc.com

Facebook: facebook.com/groups/1678228482662878

YouTube: youtube.com/channel/UCfWNwoCl4f4WMHpagB2KQsw

Instagram: instagram.com/mylibidodoc

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

If you have a topic you would like it to be discussed, please contact us by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here. 

Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship. 

Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here. 

Thank you!  

*With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon if you purchase the book from this link.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Diane, thank you for joining us. 

Thank you, Dr. Jessica. I'm happy to be here. 

Yes, and I know you do so much to support people in recognizing the vitality of their libido as it relates to relationships. And before we dive into our topic around desire, pleasure, libido, how did you become so focused on this? I know you have a background in naturopathic medicine, so where would you like to start? 

Yeah, really, my passion for this is two-part. I actually became interested in the topic in my early 20s, but it was only just under five years ago that I really decided to make a career out of it, adding this to the various offerings I provide in the business world. So yeah, I can talk about this from two different angles. The first angle is in my early 20s, when I started developing some vulvar pain, and doctors could not figure out what it was. And this was before I was medically trained. I was actually my undergrad in finance. So I really didn't know anything about health back then. So when the conventional doctors were like, Well, tests are normal, we don't know, I really had no idea what to do. 

And I was living with a roommate at the time who handed me a book that was a little shocking to me because I grew up where I had a lot of shame in my upbringing due to various reasons around masturbation, around self-pleasure. And so the book that my roommate handed me at this time, when I was complaining of my vulvar pain, was Sex for One by Betty Dodson. Which is all about self-pleasure, right? It's sex for one. And so when she first handed me this book, it was like, oh God, like I didn't even know what to do. First of all, I think I was very embarrassed. But I took the book and I went quietly to my room later that day, started reading, and the vulvar pain kicked in because it was worse at night. 

And in her book, she talks about how she was explaining that

So it was like, it felt like this was speaking directly to me, which was probably why my roommate gave it to me. And so one very brave night, I decided to self-pleasure for the first time, and nothing happened. I did not burst into flames like I might have thought. And the pain went away. And I was like, this is interesting, came back the next night, tried it again, pain went away. This went on for a few nights, and eventually the pain was just gone altogether. So it really started reconstructing my beliefs. And I'm still, you know, a very spiritual person. 

But it really started, you know, making me ask different questions, such as if I, you know, if God is good, if spirit is good, whatever we want to call this energy is good, then how would I have this body part that can actually heal me, and it's bad. It started just making me actually look at some of the shame I had around sex. So that was kind of my first, like just like an aha moment, and you know, and fast forward a couple of decades, I studied sex and sexuality, and you know, different techniques, tantra et cetera over the years. But then the real thing that got me interested in providing what I do for the world was when my marriage started failing. And when my marriage started failing, we had decided to try an open relationship. 

And I would say it was successful from a standpoint of like all the conversations you have to navigate, the complexity of that. We never fought, like there was never any anger. Right. So we were able to have these complicated conversations, I would say, healthily. But ultimately, what I learned in that is that relationship style is not for me. I am very monogamous. I love monogamy. And you know, it ended up being one of the things that actually split my ex-husband and me up because he discovered the opposite. And so went our separate ways. But one of the things that really inspired me is like, okay, there's so much novelty and hotness and passion in that style of relationship. 

So it became like a mission of mine then to look at the science and look at research and look at, you know, sex training to say how can we take passion and the science of what's happening in the chemicals of the brain around passion and how can we actually apply that to a long-term relationship that tends to lose that? And so that's been my passion for the past five years, is really studying that and bringing that not only into my own relationship, but into, you know, the relationships and the heart of long-term couples. 

Thank you so much for giving context and just some of your personal sharing, as well as how this has been informed by your training, education, and also weaving back to personal experience that has really asked you to do a deeper dive in a way that you're really able to help so many people who are confronted with similar dynamics. 

Yeah, it's true. It's so common, right? Like, there's one survey that shows about 70% of people want to talk to their doctor about sex and don't. So you know, to me, surveys like that show that this is actually a pretty big conundrum that people are having around, like, you know, either wanting to want it right. Either you know, like knowing there's no desire, but actually wanting to bring that into that relationship. It's not working. It's boring. They can orgasm, but I can't. They want it all the time, and I don't. And I think these are really common questions that come up that clearly in surveys, people are dying to have some place to talk about. And we're still, it's still like so taboo, unfortunately. 

So that's really a lot of the work is like bringing this to light, to say, this is a part of life, this is part of humanity, this is part of love. Right. 

Oh, my goodness, yes. And it's interesting. I was just meeting with another clinician before our interview here, and she was talking about some study that I. I think it was related more to non heteronormative people, but just across the board. When a therapist or a coach isn't asking about sex, it's hard to even bring it up if you want support with that. So even just in the very intimate space of addressing relational challenges, if it's not being prompted or talked about, it can still feel as if people are shy or have shame or uncertainty; it's hard to approach. 

Yeah, I think we're, you know, as humans, we are always reading the room, right? Like, is this appropriate? I think we have this tendency as humans, which is generally a positive thing, to like, not want to say something that's going to offend the other person or make the other person feel uncomfortable. And that's generally a good thing. But when it comes to our, you know, our professional relationships around, our clinical relationships, our therapists, our doctors, unfortunately we don't have the framework yet to say, hey, there isn't enough of movement of clinicians to actually ask those questions to make it comfortable for people to even know that's a possibility around, like, oh, we can talk about this too. 

And I know in some of the continuing education I've done in sex therapy, et cetera, a lot of the continuing education there is like, if you're gonna be a relationship therapist, and I'm not a therapist, I'm a doctor, but if you're going to be a relationship therapist, like, you can't do this and not talk about sex. And a lot of relationship therapists are doing it and not talking about sex. 

Yeah, I mean, I know my training is, you want to make sure to ask, at least in the first one or two sessions, even if they're like, yeah, you know, just to really, like, give room and space and normalize. And I so appreciate what you're saying about just different relationship structures and the necessity of one in a monogamous relationship. Well, first of all, the neurochemicals, as you're saying, the new, what I hear people saying, new relationship energy. Right. That first nine to 18 months, all heavily fueled by those neurochemicals. And just all the novelty there, but that often there's a level of discussion to negotiate that I think couples who have been in a relationship or are so-called, maybe even resting in the assumed monogamy. 

Like, I think there are so many different ranges and continuums and flavors of how people can structure even in. Within monogamy or non-monogamy, but the non-monogamy, just to speak specifically, people cannot have these conversations because they're resting in some assumed frame when that is likely not the case. What would you say?

I mean, I think we get into these relationships and oftentimes we have assumed agreements, and these agreements are largely dictated by our upbringing, our value systems, our things we're ashamed about, societal implications. And oftentimes, people even get married or get into committed relationships without even talking about some of their agreements. So whether we're talking about monogamy or non-monogamy, you're right. There is like very many flavors of how this is. Like, you know, in my relationship, I'm still able to have deep and meaningful friendships with men, you know, just friendship. But if I want to go and have dinner with a male friend of mine, I'm allowed to do that. My male friends know my boyfriend, and they have become friends too. But that's our agreement. In some monogamous relationships, that's not okay. 

So I think in the grand spectrum of things, one of the most important things is we're actually talking about this and preferably like early on. But if not, that's okay. You know, it's. Even when surveys showed that all the couples that the survey interviewed who are happy with their sex and intimate life, 92% of them talked about sex. 92% of the happy couples. Right. So that's so amazing because to me, it's like that just shows so much around, like, 

And we need to. Whether it's in an open relationship or a closed relationship, we need to talk about, like, what are the rules around how we're interacting with other people? 

What is allowed, what is not allowed, what needs to be shared, and what does not need to be shared. You know, it's like if my partner meets a woman at the coffee shop and they flirt for a few minutes, I have no problem with that. But I also don't want to know that. 

Okay. 

You know, that's just like he can have that moment, that is fine. Build up that energy, you know, don't get her number. But you know, bring that energy home to me, and I have no problem with that. But I also don't need that in my head. That's our agreement. And so that's really like those types of details. It's like really important to talk about. And I think we don't. 

Well, yes, agreed. And also, I would add when we're feeling pleasure individually, as you talked about, just knowing self and self, the body of self, that it's amazing how these conversations are vulnerable and difficult to broach even within the context of a long-term monogamous relationship. And you've known this person, you trust them, and like all the maybe ways that you're securely functioning, and still, some of this uncharted territory. 

I think the reason for that, and then you probably have seen studies like this in your work, where it's like in any time there's like conflict in a relationship, there are three threats: a threat to one individual, the other, and the group space. And what's interesting about the common, the conversations around sexual. Out of those three threats, there's one threat that is substantially higher, and it's a threat to the individual. So, meaning if I'm going to have a conversation with my partner about sex, I'm going to tend to protect myself at all costs, and he's going to protect himself at all costs. So we tend to be extra defensive, extra protective of ourselves when we're talking about sex. 

And you know, we could theorize that it's like evolution around us all want to pass on our genetic seed, and there's a subconscious reason for that. I think we can theorize on that. But the regardless, the most important thing is that we need to approach these conversations with understanding that there is going to be a natural tendency for everybody to be on the defensive. And it's a different muscle. Right. So even if we're really skilled in these conversations in other ways, it is a different muscle. So one of the things that I really work with couples on starting to have these conversations, is first to really only focus on the specifics and the positives and be extremely specific. 

So meaning like the next day after making out, after having an intense hug, after having sex, whatever it is, the next day, being very specific and being like, oh wow, the way you touched my thigh, like oh honey. And just really build up the specifics of that, of what you love, and start to spend more time talking about sex, but only talking initially about Oh, that thing you did that. Oh God, that is awesome. Give me more. And one of two things is going to happen. First of all, you're probably going to start getting more of that and less of the things you don't like naturally because they're going to focus more on what you love. ,

But secondly, it's starting to build that foundation of safety and working that muscle so that when we get to like the level two of this, you know, skill building technique of talking about sex when we're in level two, then we can start bringing in, oh, okay, now we're going to talk about the things that we don't like and we of course have ways to do that, but it's going to work a lot better because you've already laid this foundation and already going to go into this conversation with like, wow, she said a hundred things she loves about like how I make love. Like, okay, my ego is now really high. So there's this one thing I need to tweak. Oh yeah, I want to do that because I am like, look at me, I'm sex God. Or, you know, whatever. 

Well, I appreciate that. And we are humans, and as you said, just the safety of these conversations and that our nervous systems are engaged, and when it is, the stakes are so high, and it feels threatening, and we're getting negative feedback, as much as we wanna feel mature and emotionally regulated, that there will likely be a rattle to that. So part of the elixir or just even the joy of being able to have some of these conversations is really establishing some goodwill, or even, as people might say, love in the bank. That's a resource that we're genuinely acknowledging. 

Exactly. And that's what it is. It's like building up. I know the, like the Gottmans, you know, the relationship coaches there, they talk about this like a bidding system around, like, oh, how many times can you like bid for your partner's attention? And the times you need to kind of turn towards them, and you know, get that positive feedback, or be like, oh, I missed the bid. I'm like so in my head with all the things, and I can't remember the ratio. I think it might be five to one. I can't remember what their ratio is. But the point here is very similar. Around, like, 

like, you know, in the terms you use so that we do have to bring something up that we want to get rid of, which, you know, when it comes to being in the bedroom and filling and fulfilling and say, eliminating things that talk about like the orgasm gap where one partner can orgasm so much more quickly and easier and a lot another lover is left waiting. You know, we need to talk about how we can merge and bring that gap closer to neutral. And so we have to talk about things like Oh yeah, when you do that, honey, it like actually turns me off. We need to get to a point where we can say that. 

But we do like the bank you're talking about. When we get that bank so full, when we turn towards our partner so much, then we wind up, like say depleting the bank in such a less impactful way because our bucket's so full. 

And the resilience is there, right? The resource and we have strengthened the associations around connecting in the sexual intimate space. You know, it's so interesting, when you were talking about this first step, I actually thought you were going to talk about more of the individual self relationship with body pleasure. And maybe it's from your story, but also, like, even when we talk about humans, it's easy to assume, and we're talking about gender in this binary way. So that's how people experience their sexuality, their gender, and how they identify. And also we have humans that, whether or not neurotypical, neurodivergent, like I know people who identify as being a little bit more highly sensitive, right. 

That if they're running through the world and modern day living and so overstimulated that coming to the sexual space it's more stimulating and it's like actually no, I need to calm my nervous system, I need to really downregulate, to even then be open. And there are so many ways in which people may be out of touch with self. But even to go with your first point, that if we're going to give feedback to be able to reflect on what did feel good, can I be specific? Can I actually hone in and identify to give that positive feedback? You want to comment on any of that? 

Yeah, I mean, when you're talking about this, I mean, there are so many different root causes of low desire, of low drive, of some level of say imbalance. I don't really like the word sexual dysfunction because I don't really think it's dysfunction from that standpoint. I just think it's a bad word. But you know, in balance, when things aren't working, totally correct. And I usually put this into three pillars. So one pillar is like a physical reason. So this is the cardiovascular system, our blood flow to our genitals, our Hormones, our neurological system, like are we sending the signals correctly? Is there numbness? Is there pelvic pain? Anything that kind of falls in the physical realm, and then there's the personal realm. And that's like

to be able to tell our partner what our turn-ons are? And then the third is the interpersonal. So this is how we are relating to the other person. What is more than play? So you know, so far in our conversation, a lot of what we've talked about is more like how we are talking or coming together and talking and communicating about this. But some of what you're talking about from more of the pleasure side, I would put that into more of the personal root causes. And those are definitely a very important part of the pillar system that we have to address. 

So you know, one of the things I say there is that in the personal side of things that pleasure is in many ways a mindfulness-based activity, right? The capacity to experience pleasure is directly related to the capacity to be present. And even you know what happens to so many humans, and oftentimes, stereotypically, I see this more in women, but it can happen to any human, is that when we are in bed and when we are intimate that the mind all of a sudden wanders. And there's that fleeting thought of like crap, I forgot to put the laundry in the dryer, or oh, I did not do this with the kids, or oh, I forgot to pick this up at the grocery store, right? The monkey chatter. 

And just like with meditation, like the meditation practice is like, oh, the mind wanders, recognize it being like, okay, I'm returning to my breath, I'm returning to my stillness, whatever it is, you know, the same thing is true with pleasure. Pleasure is not, is another thing that's like not a destination in many ways. It's like a continuum and a commitment to say, Hey, this is part of my self-care practice. This is part of how I'm dropping the things of the day, and I'm attuning to my body, I'm attuning to the peace of the moment. And that's really one of the reasons why I say that 

Because it's this amazing mindfulness practice of being like, I'm fully just going to be here and enjoy what all of these sensations that my body gets to experience as a human and that is going to involve not only being prag, you know, present, but also doing practices to work on any sort of shame, any sort of belief system that we had getting in the way of. Of us actually being present. 

Oh, my goodness. I so appreciate how you're just organizing this and also distilling this in the personal column or pillar, and the direct correlation with pleasure and presence and what's occurring to me, you know, as you're describing, a very common experience of multitasking or having so many things on the list. I. I know one guest who was talking about desire and arousal, and I think she actually wrote a book. Yeah, it's Emily Jamia. 

Oh, yeah. Anatomy of Desire. Yes. 

And talking about flow state with sex and her research around that. And I loved it. And she was saying my recommendation for one of her kind of whose themes were to do one task at a time, similar to what you're talking about. And I know we mentioned Lori Barano's work, and when I'm thinking about even the emotional, because I think these pillars are likely interconnected, to talk about them to help give awareness, it's beneficial to look at them in distinct ways. So my thought was for the emotionals, if what's getting in the way of being present could be the physical, could be the relational dynamics, and even personally, if one is feeling a tremendous amount of stress. 

Or I know I was talking to this clinician, she was saying men's low desire has gotten less attention and sometimes that's related to perhaps not having as much range emotionally, feeling angry or the unprocessed emotion or shame, as you said, and not having a lot of resolution, like, if one gets present, hello, all of that is there. And how do we feel sexual when we perhaps are still working through a whole heck of a lot. But I wonder what if you would agree or tell me how you see. 

Yeah, I think one of the problems we're in with some of the, like, the new age, you know, spiritual movement, and there's a lot of benefit from that movement. But one of the problems, I think, is that there's oftentimes this belief that we need to constantly be finding neutrality. So, yeah, I was deeply part of a meditative community for a long time that served me well. But one of the reasons I left this community is exactly this, that it was like the teachings were that, okay, well, if you're too angry or too sad or too happy or anything like that, any of that was like, not good. And you had to quickly bring yourself to, like, be as even as possible throughout life. And the moment you're angry, go into meditation so you can be even. 

If you're too joyful, go into meditation to be even. And I actually don't think that's right. Wow. I just set off fireworks. Okay, good. Perfect timing. I don't know how I did that. 

I've never seen these. I don't know why they're showing up. I don't know if they're on your end, but this is great. You, like, did a thumbs up earlier and then like fireworks. 

I wish I could repeat that, but that was really great timing. So we'll just gonna go with that to really feed the point I'm making. But, you know, with that, I think there are problems there, right? Because of all of these things, it's like, yeah, it's like a great practice to, you know, work on how we can process anger and like, you know, not project on other people. And of course we want to, you know, work on those kinds of things. But I do think these emotions really have a purpose. And I think sometimes, you know, the masculine energy has unfortunately been looked at as the enemy versus, like, this energy that is, like, really powerful. And so how do we allow that powerful intensity to have a place, but a safe place? 

And so I really think too, that the bedroom can be a great way to play with these energies. Right. And this isn't to say that, okay, we're gonna take this aggression out into our partnership in an unhealthy way. By no means am I saying that. In fact, I'm saying quite the opposite. But like, I've taken, for example, part of my own cultivation is I've taken these dance classes, these sensual dance classes that I took seven or eight years ago. And what these dance classes were were these classes where we'd go in, you know, usually scantily dressed, females only, and we pick songs, and these songs, like, you could go in and have this day where you're just like feeling like pissed at the world. And then you're gonna dance and you're gonna do some sort of dance, which is usually this sexy dance. 
But you're so in your body, and so you're dancing and you're moving out the anger. And it was so interesting because you're in these kinds of classes, you would be like the center of attention for a little while, and then you'd witness other women, and you'd be there, and then we would, you know, share afterwards. Such a healing experience to like, witness, and be with these women. For years, and be like, oh, wow, that is this woman processing anger or that is this woman excited about life? And you could see that process through the body, right? 

Yeah. 

So we can take that same thing in healthy ways into our sex life around, like, okay, well, again, with safety and parameters and respect and all the things, permission. But how can we actually move our body to process the energy when we're feeling all these things versus just saying that's bad? I'm going to ignore it. And I think that's one amazing way that sex and sexuality, especially when practiced and created in this way with a partner, can just be so multidimensional healing. 

Oh, I love what you're saying, and I would love to have people have. If you're willing to give an example of that. I guess. One example that comes to my mind you mentioned tantra. I haven't done deep study, but I remember there being an exercise where it's like you have some pillows and then you're kind of exerting on the pillow individually, but shared and this kind of no energy of just like releasing stress through like where you're just able to really recognize what you don't want, don't like, and be physically embodied around it. 

But before I ask your kind of example around how people might access this, it just occurs to me that so often, and you mentioned just men's development, I know a lot of anger management is actually coming into contact with the things that have felt injury or bringing attention to like where you felt slighted or maybe where you were suppressing anger and the accumulation of that. And that's where these outbursts. So it sounds like you're really inviting with ownership, with consciousness, with presence, that there can be welcome, and how to be with what is. And then in the shared space. I mean, this is something I would love to hear more from you around. But that can have a place for sure. 

Yeah. I mean, some of it is like the capacity to be present. Right. Because at any time we're working with these sorts of things, the moment we start to dissociate is when we are almost pushing our edge more than we can, our nervous system can handle. So if we've been angry for a long time, right? And it's like examples like you're talking about, where it's like anger stacked on anger, where it's like, you know, where sometimes it's like hard to say where the root is of that. You know, say the original sensitizing or the original event. And so the ability to heal from any of these things, anger, sadness, any of it, in part, is related to our nervous system's capacity to stay present to it. 

You know, fight, flight, or freeze. Right. And all of these are dissociative nervous system, or all of these are nervous system responses that are not healthy. And so the way we determine, okay, how. What am I ready for, what is safe for my body to do, in many ways is related to can I stay present? So if we're starting to say, okay, I want to process this anger, one of the things to do is say, start to feel sensations in our body, right? Like, where is this anger living? What does it feel like? Like, we can make sounds, we can do movements. How does it want to respond? But we need to do it from the state. 

One of the key things that I've seen is that we need to do it from a state of staying present. So if I start going deeper in my body, around, like, where does it. Where does it live? And then all of a sudden, I'm thinking about my third-grade teacher for a weird reason. And that's, you know, it's one thing if that's connected to the event, but if it's not, that's a sign that I'm dissociating, and that's a sign that I'm not staying present to it. So, in some of the work, sound is a big thing in Tantra. You know, sound is. It can be a big thing in sex. Sound can be a big thing in energy. 

Yeah. 

But the biggest thing I really encourage people to do is, like, there is breath, sound, movement, which are three of the top ways to really start moving through this energy. And pick whatever one, you know, start with whatever one or a combination that you resonate with the most. So if you all, you know, love movement practices, you know, I would encourage you to, like, okay, if you're angry, start putting on a song that's like your anger song. And tune into not so much in your head, but right. But into the sensation in your body. Like, what part of, like, go deep and like, where does this Aang, where do I feel it is in my heart? Is it in my gut? And just put all of your consciousness from there and see how that part of your body wants to move. Right. And move from it. 

And then invite yourself to go deeper around. Like, okay, is there a deeper part of this? And see if you can feel even more sensation. And as you're feeling more and more sensation. Just make sure you're in tune with that sensation and not checking out. If you are a singer or you love sound and you, like, you know, if you're more of a vocal person. What type of sound does this want to make? Does it need to hit a pillow? Does it need to jump at the same time as making a sound? Those sorts of things? 

Yes. Thank you so much for giving an example and a path to help process or be with. Maybe in some cases metabolize, in other cases just be embodied and have the flesh flow of the emotional process. And combined with the. How I'm hearing you describe, I think, you know, the fight, flight, or freeze, likely in life. We're responding and gonna be activated in life multiple times a day. And that's it. If we're in the more optimal, as maybe some people in the polyvagal world would say, window of tolerance. Right. That we're looking for this window of tolerance so that we're regulated enough to be more present. That's where we have, they would say, like, a ventral state. Like, we can be creative, be intimate, be related. 

When we're in the fight or flight, our other systems are on board, and we're not at that capacity. Exactly. And also, just as most of us, if we put trauma on a continuum, we have had overwhelming experiences. And my understanding about EMDR is that it's accessing the left and the right hemisphere to have a calming effect so that we can tolerate enough to reprocess some overwhelming things. So when you're talking about dissociating, I think this is actually more common. Again, if we put it on a spectrum that if we really are tuning in, when are we checking out? When are we in memory land? When are we? I mean, there's a lot of nuance to this. 

Yeah. And I think that's. I mean, this same thing applies to sex. Right. A lot of times, when people are, you know, for men, finding that they go soft, say, in the middle of intercourse, or for women, when it's, you know, difficulty orgasming, and they don't really feel a lot of pleasure. Of course, there are many reasons, and usually it's a combination of reasons why that's happening. But oftentimes when that's happening, it's very common that there's an element of us dissociating. So just like you're saying around, like, paying attention to when this is happening? Like, oh, like when somebody's breast is being touched, maybe that's when you're dissociating. So going in, being like, you know, what is there in your spare time? Being like, okay, well, let me put on some music. Let me put myself into a calm state. 

Maybe put your hands on your breasts and start to just explore and say, What is underneath here? Like, 

Wow. 

So it's almost as if using the shared partner sexual space as a source of information, we can get cues, indicators, and we have an opportunity to explore that further. Yeah. 

And to take it. That's like step one. And to take it even further than that. And I'm going to give you a little bit more of an advanced skill here, which is where we can use sex for healing. Because we know, right? That is when our body, when our brain is in these hydraulic heightened state, we are highly suggestible. That's why amazing experts like Tony Robbins and Dr. Joe Dispenza, you know, are one of the reasons for creating these types of, like, amazing workshops where people are having these incredibly heightened states. Certain drugs, ayahuasca, and these, you know, medicine plant medicines like that are used for similar reasons, like put people in these highly altered states where we're more suggestible. Well, meditation's the same way. Sex and orgasm can be the same way. When we're present, it can create this highly altered state. 

So a more advanced skill for people is again, like, once foundation is there and we've talked about sex and we're working with our partner and all these different things, a really fun exercise, and I love doing this with my partner is if, like, something is, like, coming up for me where it's like, oh, my gosh, I can't get this out of my head. I will come up with almost like a mantra, like something around. Like, I need this to program into my consciousness as my new normal, my new set point. So I will share this with my boyfriend. And then as I get into these heightened states, kind of train him around, like, hey, you know, this is when I want you to start whispering this in my ear, right. So we're in that altered state. 

And then we can use sex for helping to help reprogram whatever we need to do to help heal from those things. So not only is it a pleasure, and it's like all those other things, but it's like deeply healing. And then it's like working together with your partner to heal, which is just from A standpoint of intimacy and closeness standpoint. Right. 

Thank you. And for people listening who are looking for maybe what that looks like, an example of that would be if somebody is really recognizing, oh, I recognize, I defer to people a lot, and I'm really trying to receive and acknowledge my worth or even just the affirmation of like I'm worthy, then having a partner affirm that. Is that kind of what you're just suggesting? Okay. 

I mean example is like no matter, like I'm 15 years into my practice and like no matter how deep I get into my work, I still have imposter syndrome come up sometimes, around like oh my goodness, who am I to teach this? And all these like things that can come up around, like my own value. Right? 

Totally. 

And so if I'm going through a period where I'm like having any sort of self doubt around like oh my goodness, like am I offering something to the world that's an example of like, okay, Mike is my partner's name and I'll just say like Mike, you know, I just want you to read affirm that I am powerful and I am changing the world and that sort of thing. 

That, that's beautiful. 

Yeah, it's really fun. 

Oh, I love that. Well, I know we're winding down. I wanted to circle back just to clarify. Clarify when you were describing that being present doesn't have to be an individual thing, that this could be a shared thing. Do you want to give somebody an example or people an example around if this is not their norm or not a comfort zone? How to access more presence together that might be more embodied or make room for different ranges of emotion or experiences, but. Anything you want to mention? 

Yeah, I mean, a simple thing from a co-presence practice is either a very non sexual touch practice or a breath work practice. So fun, tantric breathwork practice is doing like a breathing practice where it's like, okay, the one person breathes and the energy comes up the back over the crown. So you're breathing in together and then it goes out, you're out together, and you're going down the front side, so you're crossing, creating what we call the microcosmic orbit. So it's up the back with the inhale down the front. And so you're just kind of tracing an imaginary line on the exhale down the front of your body, and tracing an imaginary line with the inhale up the back of your body. So you create this orbit. And so you can do that with a partner. 

You can put your hands on each other's hearts. You know, another thing that I really encourage people to do is just start a sensual practice. And so a sensual touch practice. And it could start with just like a foot massage, and you're really practicing going back and forth. So if I'm massaging my partner's feet, as I'm massaging them, my work is to pay attention to how my hands feel. Like, first, all my mind is like, how does it feel in my hands to feel his feet? So I'm more focused on my hands, and then I change my focus to how his feet feel against my hands? So we can change that awareness. And all we're doing, and then he's doing the same. He's focused more on his feet initially and then more on my hands. 

And so what we're doing, in addition to getting a great foot massage along the way, is we're actually practicing that art of being completely in touch with the sensations, but then also with using our mind to change our orientation to be like, oh, we can focus more predominantly on any part of our body at any given time with our awareness. So we're practicing that awareness cue to be like, oh, what does it feel like when I actually change my awareness this way? Which is allowing us. It's a good skill to be in the present, and that's a very simple partner thing that you can do. 

Thank you. Yeah, I can see how helpful that is. In lower risk, perhaps. 

Low stakes. 

Yeah, low stakes. To just be able to start building some practice here. I love it. Well, I wanted to go back last question. As you shared your story with us. I don't know if you call him your ex-husband, but yeah, ex-husband. Knowing what you know now, I mean, I get when people want different things. There's some incompatibility there. Do you feel like this is? I mean, I imagine you're doing this to help save people from maybe unnecessary ruptures or divorces, but do you feel like, I guess, less about your ex, but just. Do you feel like this would have made a difference for you and previous relationships, some of what you're offering others, and what to cultivate here personally? 

Like, with my ex, like, there was just. So we're going such different directions in our lives, so it made so much more sense to be like we're. And it was. I mean, honestly, we had value differences that I should have recognized earlier on. It's like we're going different directions, and you know, we fall in love, and I just kind of ignored some of those signs. So I don't think it would have made a difference with him. But I do think it is one of the most profound things as far as why I'm having success in my current relationship, which is, you know, five years in. So we're still new. Ish. But, you know, it's still. We're way past the honeymoon phase. Yes. You know, and to have. And you know, I'm helping him raise his three kids, so I'm in a stepmom role. 

So we've had all these new, like, experiences that could be really challenging, and we just keep going deeper and more committed to passion and the hotness and all the things. So I do feel like from my personal relationship now, it's making a huge difference. Yeah. 

And I'm imagining you would say that this is helping people access new territory in themselves and others, which helps open possibilities for relationships. 

Exactly, exactly. The idea is like helping people feel more connected to themselves, more capable of a more profound way of love, and really 

Really fun. 

Yes. Well, for people who want to work with you, learn from you, and connect with you, what would you invite them to? 

So definitely go check out my book. So when we're filming this, it is out for pre-order. By the time this episode gets dropped, it'll be right around the time it is actually ready for launch. But whether you buy it for pre-order or right after it's launched, I am giving away a ton of free bonuses as a thank you for being an early purchaser of my book. So right now it's almost up to 300 worth of free bonuses for everybody. So it's called Want to want it. So you can find it at wanttowantit.com, so that's amazing. You can also go check out my yes, no, maybe checklist. 

My yes, no, maybe checklist as a way that you can take this kind of quiz with your partner to talk about, like, oh, what sort of novel types of things could you actually bring in that would be interesting for both of you to bring passion back into your life. So you can find that at my site, sexdoc.com, so it's two links for you to want it and my sex doc. 

Wonderful. And I know you have so many more links as far as social media, and you have, I think, a group like a master class group, my libido club. Yep, your libido club and all the goodies. So I'll make sure to have all those links on today's Show Notes. Thank you so much for being with us and sharing all that you did. 

Oh, thank you, Jessica. It was really wonderful to be here with you.