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Navigating the complexities of family dynamics can sometimes feel like walking a tightrope—especially when relationships between parents and adult children become strained or even break down completely. Family estrangement is an increasingly common challenge that can leave everyone involved feeling isolated, misunderstood, and in deep pain. When communication falters and generational differences collide, how do we find a path toward empathy, healing, and growth?

In this episode, listeners are invited into a heartfelt exploration of adult child-parent estrangement, its underlying causes, and the impact it has on both individuals and entire families. The conversation offers practical insights on healing old wounds, understanding the spiritual and psychological dynamics at play, and tools for fostering compassion—even when distance or conflict seems insurmountable. With stories, expert reflections, and actionable guidance, this discussion aims to support anyone facing the difficult terrain of family disconnection, offering hope and concrete steps toward greater understanding and unity.

Dr. Rachel Glik is a licensed professional counselor with 30+ years as a couples, individual, and family therapist in private practice. Since 2014, she has been a regular feature on the Fox 2 AM show in St. Louis as a relationship and mental health expert. Rachel appeared on NBC News Daily at the launch of her book, A Soulful Marriage: Healing Your Relationship with Responsibility, Growth, Priority, and Purpose. She is a writer for The Wall Street Journal, CNBC Make It, Psychology Today, and MindBodyGreen. Rachel teaches and gives seminars for organizations such as The Kabbalah Centre and Young Presidents Organization (YPO). She lives in St. Louis with her husband and large extended family.

Episode Highlights

03:40 Exploring why parent–child estrangement is becoming more common.

09:04 Considering how distance can sometimes support healing and growth.

12:35 The power of early repair before patterns set in.

15:03 Understanding the emotional complexity of parenting adult children.

16:31 Shifting into a new parental role as boundaries and autonomy evolve.

21:35 Recognizing the grief and self-validation needed as relationships change.

24:26 Reflecting on how to hold compassionate space for an adult child’s experience.

26:09 Learning to move beyond defensiveness and listen with openness.

29:38 Embracing generational differences with curiosity rather than fear.

32:56 Navigating how estrangement affects couples and their parenting alignment.

37:56 Prioritizing self-compassion in the midst of relational hardship.

40:43 Practicing accountability and authentic repair within the family and partnership.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

• Take a moment to ground yourself with a deep breath before engaging in challenging family conversations to increase presence and calm.
• When tension arises, reflect honestly on how your actions may contribute, and express accountability to foster trust and safety.
• Aim to respond with supportive, non-judgmental language, empowering your adult child to make their own decisions.
• Listen deeply to your child’s experiences and feelings, holding space for their emotions without jumping into explanations or defense.
• Find the balance between support and over-giving, maintain your wellbeing, and be mindful of your energy.
• Ask permission before sharing concerns or advice, acknowledging you’re entering your adult child’s “lane.”
• Recognize the pain and complexity of estrangement, and give yourself grace throughout the healing process.
• Reach out for therapy, coaching, or resources to receive guidance in navigating family estrangement and building new communication strategies.

Mentioned

A Soulful Marriage (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

It Didn't Start with You: How Inherited Family Trauma Shapes Who We Are and How to End the Cycle (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Family Constellations (*Wikipedia link)

Passionate Marriage (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Kabbalah (*Wikipedia link)

ERP 473: How to Experience More Embodied Pleasure Sexually – An Interview with Susan Taylor

12 Relationship Principles to Strengthen Your Love (free guide)

Connect with Dr. Rachel Glik

Websites: drrachelglik.com

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LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dr-rachel-glik-edd-lpc-a7047ab

Pinterest: pinterest.com/drrachelglik

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

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Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

If you have a topic you would like to be discussed, please contact us by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here. 

Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship. 

Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here. 

Thank you!  

*With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon if you purchase the book from this link.

Episode Transcript

Rachel, thank you for joining us. It's such a treat to have you back. And I will make sure to put the link to our previous conversation and episode on today's shownotes, and yeah, welcome. 

Thank you so much. It's so good to see you again and to talk some more. 

Yes, likewise. And we're going to be focusing on a very specific topic that I think more and more people are negotiating, and that's parent, child, Adult child estrangement. And particularly as we look at relationships, how maybe parents and couples bond, marriage, relationship, or negotiating this scenario, and perhaps might approach it differently. But before we even dive into the details, let's just get a scope, and like you said, you wrote an article that got a lot of attention, or talk to us a little bit about how you started addressing this. 

Yes. So adult parental estrangement, adult child, and tension with parents and estrangement with them have been something that I've noticed growing in the past 20 years. I'd say, in terms of my own practice. And so I have been writing blogs about it on my own website, talking on Fox 2 about it. And then recently, I wrote an article in the Wall Street Journal about it. And then just the outpouring of parents who are in so much pain over this has become a new specialty for me. 

Talk to us about how you see this happening, or that this is more common, and it's becoming more of an issue. 

Yes, there are, you know, some upsides and some downsides about that. The upside is that the younger generations are becoming more conscious, more intentional in their relationships. They're going to therapy more. They're starting to individuate in a different kind of way, where they're seeing, like, because our culture and our family was like this, or if this didn't feel good inside, it doesn't mean I have to accept it, you know, or it doesn't mean I just have to go along and not say anything. And so that's the good news is that you know, there's more cycle breaking and affecting change, and hopefully to help the whole lineage, you know, heal. 

But the downside is that in the process, there are 

 And I don't see that for any adult child who feels like it's unhealthy for them to be in that relationship. It's not coming from a lack of compassion for me. I just see it as just a very painful experience. So anything that I can do to help bring harmony and help close the gap, I just feel very called to. 

Does that sound like you're holding both perspectives? And that as you're seeing the positive aspects of an Adult child who's really being conscientious and intentional about how they're negotiating relationship, how they're participating and perhaps as you said, even breaking some cycles that are either dysfunctional or have real difficulties to them and that maybe don't even feel healthy and that too do that differently is really a positive thing. And to create more healing in the lineage, as you said, and then also that the compassion or maybe even some level of acceptance or even regard for the given life. I mean, I can hear maybe some people are like the old kind of saying of, ‘I brought you into this world,’ and they like having that level of respect. But it's so coming from that top down, one-upping. And it's not very collaborative or that relational. 

Right, right. It can sound very obligatory, like, so I owe you to stay in a very unhealthy situation because you brought me into this world. As it may sound, but it's all about consciousness and how you frame it. So this idea that how to balance and understand without it feeling like dogmatic or autocratic, or uncollaborative, to have more appreciation for the life our parents gave us. I find spirituality really helps with that. That it's really more like the soul's journey and also family constellation therapy, if you've ever heard of it. I love that. And it's like, you know, the parents always came first. Like, there is this order and balance to energy flow. And spirituality has helped me with that to see that it's really about how energy flows. It's cause and effect. 

Like we are a vessel, you know, and the light of the Creator or the source of life is the source. And so similarly, on some level, 

It's a different obligation. It's an obligation to your soul and to trust that there's something that you're here to learn and to grow and to heal for yourself and your whole soul, root family. Zooming out with a little bigger picture. Yes. 

Well, and I would love for you to talk a little bit. I have done the family constellation work, and it is. It was so powerful when I did it. I was actually being trained. It was a somatic psychology course in my PhD program, and I did a whole piece, and it was quite profound. And then it reminds me of Mark Wallin's. It didn't begin with you. I don't know if you've read. 

Yeah, that's the main one that I have. That I refer to. Yeah. 

And the epigenetics of how trauma can be passed down. And also from a spiritual perspective. Do you see just the kind of energy as you're describing? I don't know if I have your language exactly right. And how that comes from the parents, and that there's also a unique individual spirituality. How do you see those? 

I get this from, you know, thousands of years old wisdom, the Wisdom of Kabbalah, which might overlap with other spiritualities as well. But that's where I get my reservoir of wisdom that resonates with my soul. But in that wisdom, we have, like an individual, what's called tikkun, which is a correction. We came to overcome something. We came to reveal light that we haven't revealed yet. We haven't completely revealed the totality of our light or our soul or our gifts, our value. And we also have things that we may need to put into balance from previous lifetimes. And according to the Wisdom of Kabbalah,  

And so that can be really hard to swallow, you know, or some people can be like. 

For many, it's just like life-altering, with how they look at everything that's happened in their life. And it still doesn't mean that you accept hurtful behavior. And you don't, you know, like just an, oh, everything's just gonna go on as it is. Still wanna affect change and take care of yourself and keep evolving and transforming. But it can change the perspective. And then there's also a collective. The whole family could have something to work through together. And sometimes that means, like, needing to have distance. You know, like, often I find that it's a developmental stage that I hope in some, like, it's just too hard for them to keep healing themselves in the context of being connected with their parents. And then it's just part of a process of getting stronger within oneself to then be ready to. 

To be able to differentiate enough and to feel detached enough that you can then have. See your parents as separate individuals who probably had their own trauma or had their own lack of education or lack of attunement that they needed. And then you can come back with some compassion and, you know, maybe a new chapter that has different rules and boundaries. 

Precisely. It reminds me of Dr. David Schnarch's work on The Passionate Marriage and Intimacy and Desire. And he talked about how often it's too much to ask to hold on to oneself in such proximity that we do need to leave. And I think he was saying, like, leaving the house. And then perhaps at some point when we feel a little stronger and we feel a little bit more able to hold on to ourselves, we can go to the other side of the house or then the other room. And then eventually we can maybe be in the same room. But this kind of iterative process, as you said, developmentally, is actually part of the growth, and sometimes it's too big a risk. 

It's too much work to try to do it in such proximity when so much is getting activated in the relational cycles. I also want to comment that I strongly believe that when one person heals, it actually helps all of us heal within the family system. 

Yes. So that can be a beautiful part of the work for the adult child to be either verbal and, you know, expressed, or even inside oneself. This is me still holding you in my heart and appreciating all that you've been through and all that you have given me. But I want to work on our wholeness with some space. There are so many individual scenarios that no one's estrangement story is the same. But there are other factors also that are contributing to this. But I think that what I shared is what feels like the most prominent one. But I find that there are themes for both. I tend to work more with the parents. It just seems to be how that has unfolded that where the creator must want me to be. 

But I enjoy working with the adult child, too. And sometimes I do that in tandem. But even though each story is unique, I am learning more and more about what some of these themes are. 

Mm. Well, I'd love to hear about those themes. And I also just want to ask. As we're talking, it seems as though perhaps there's a lot of range in how this can look if we're talking about potential strained or estranged relationships. But there are perhaps attempts that can be made that maybe the parents aren't catching or recognizing. And then it might feel like it's a 180, but there have been so many attempts. So that there are ways in which. Or perhaps one just doesn't have the skill. Right. That's just like I need to kind of come in hot and do a 180 just because I can't do anything else, or I don't know how to do anything else. And while that might not be the approach that's going to offer more of this collaboration, it might be one of the steps towards healing, as you said. 

It won't be that hopefully the “end-all all be-all”, but it is part of the process. 

Yes, absolutely. And so this is where I try to always help. Same with when I help couples, or in my book, also on marriage. I really try to help as much as possible at any stage of where you are, where there's some sort of friction, strain, rupture, whatever, which is normal and part of life. To seize the opportunity to kind of cope ahead, to get tools to navigate what you're going through so that you can elevate, you can get closer and heal more, versus, you know, waiting till it's really far down the road. But even if it is far down the road and your parent-child isn't speaking to you, there's still so much you can do, but these different stages. 

Like just this morning, I had a session with a woman whom I've been meeting with for marriage, and now we're talking about them as a couple with the estrangement that's going on. And then in the meantime, I'm spending more time with her meeting individually because she's at a point where it could go either way right now. She's had a couple of incidences where she was putting pressure on her son who was struggling with some mental health issues as trouble functioning as a 22 year old, you know, and so anything of what she overlays with her own expectation or what she thinks it should look like in his life and his relationships is just making him pull away and not speaking to her for periods of time. So I'm like, this is the perfect time for you to actually make amends for those interactions. 

So then we're working on how she can own what it is that she's been doing and how she's really looking at herself. Adult children love that when they see parents who are, you know, I'm really. Thank you for making some changes. As painful as they are, they're giving me a chance to look at what I need to change. 

This is something that I have to deal with in all my relationships, not just with you, like start to catch it where he can see that, okay, she's safe because she can see what I'm saying, struggling with here and he doesn't have the tools or the skills or the emotional capacity to really walk her through what she needs to do for him. He's just overwhelmed and overloaded. Can't even put one foot in front of the other in his life. So he just runs, he just flees. And that is a theme. 

That is a theme I find with some adult children who are, get easily dysregulated, who have maybe had learning disabilities or some sort of genetic conditions that make it harder for them to handle things in life, and they still feel like that child, you know, whatever that's one component is how do you navigate it? 

Oh my goodness, I'm so compassionate to the strife of this. And as you're describing about the adult child perhaps feeling so ill equipped to negotiate the dysregulation or the life skills or what challenges present in life and wanting to be differentiated but feeling perhaps unresourced to do so and just the overwhelm around all that and that fleeing could feel like a real viable option and then also just compassion to the parents here as you're talking about here is the one parent. 

And imagine this might be a theme that a parent might want to support the independence or the adulting of an adult child and perhaps wants to start to set some limits and boundaries or as you said may have expectations around when that's going to happen or how that happens and if there's other things like that appear as in problems of whether or not it's substance use like some mental health and ways people are dealing and coping with mental health issues or hardships. And so, try to parent an adult child in these very firm ways, but also how to make room for a new dynamic. Like, there's so much here that makes this really challenging, and I think none. 

I'm a parent of adult children, and so a lot of my lessons through my own stories along the way are learning from my clients what not to do most of the time. But it is parenting. 

And you're planting seeds like I just spoke yesterday about this topic of empty nesting and how we're kind of always empty nesting and the minute they're born we're already preparing, you know, just little things with growing more independent and those are times of we're planting seeds on how that goes and we're just not really trained in and this nuance of how to communicate and how to keep mostly like the self awareness it takes to make sure that we are not overlaying our expectation on them. So, like with this story of this woman I was meeting with today, the parts of how they're helping him with his mental health and the boundaries around, you know, supporting him financially and what that requires, and like a contract of sorts or behavioral plan that's separate. They're not having problems with that. 

It's when the woman was overlaying her expectations of what he should do in personal relationships with her or with a sibling or with whom she. 

He's dating or judgment. 

Exactly. And that's where she absolutely interfered in a way that did not support him. And that we as parents have to spend a lot of emotional energy to be very patient and detached from their choices, and let them learn their lessons on their own and deal with our own fears within ourselves, not putting them on them to try to change or control them. It is an instinct to feel like you don't even think it through. You're just like, that can't be like that. You can't, you know what's gonna happen if you know. And I lived that where, like, I felt like it was important to express some things that I was concerned about with my kids. But so much of it that didn't go well was when I was coming from fear, not dealing with my own emotions, and not really letting go. 

I mean, what I say to my clients is, you've basically raised them. You know, you're done. Yes, there is still parenting that happens. I'm not saying that we don't, but mostly it's really just, you know, offering that what they need most is that we believe in them and that we want to inspire them to and empower them to ask their own questions of what they think will be helpful for them. You know, like I call them neutral affirming statements. We have to be so much more neutral than we realize; it's turning the corner to more of how we would ideally relate to anyone. 

As you talk about these general relational skills, and you offer a lot in your book and that we're turning the corner. I remember I've done a lot of parent coaching in the past, and I remember saying that very thing of like, she's been raised right. You've imprinted and raised her. And I can appreciate the impulse to say, I gotta do something like this. You know, they need my help. And. And that's where perhaps encroaching on their space, when I do think there can be a lot, as you talk about the listening, the compassion, the understanding. And then if they solicit exactly. 

Right. 

Or just to be affirming and what is. What's the impulse, and what are they after, and how does that make sense, and just to have that understanding and that depth, and then to be able to offer if it's invited. 

Yeah, exactly. And you know, and like I said earlier, it's not all or nothing. Like, if you do find that something you're concerned about, like I know there were certain things that I wouldn't be able to have lived well inside myself, I didn't at least have a conversation about. And so that has to be done very carefully, very respectfully, with a lot of, you know, affirming clauses like no matter what you decide, I'm all in and I support whatever, you know, like let's say if you have a concern about something you see and who they're dating or to be so careful. Because that's another theme of estrangements. It's. Is the partner not feeling like they're accepted or supported, or was there some tension there in the beginning? 

Like I just knew from my sessions with clients, that I need to be very careful when they bring somebody into their lives and make sure they feel welcome. And if you do have a concern, you have to be very careful how you share it, and you know, kind of put it back on them. Like, you know, these are the things that I've learned are important, but you have your own individual path. But I just feel as your parent that I wanted to at least share from our experience what we have found helpful for long-term success and love, and growth. And that's where I wanted to just, you know, kind of consider these ideas. 

And I wonder if you would agree to, if I can chime in that there's an awareness that I am coming into your lane a little bit,  and like I'm recognizing I need to be mindful and sensitive and maybe even ask for permission. Like, I have some thoughts. I want to be able to say it once, and if it's helpful, and maybe how I communicate, and just hear some things I've wondered about. What do you think? What have you noticed? But there's an appreciation that like I'm coming over into your space and I'm aware that I'm doing it, and are you okay with that? Or maybe let me know when you are ready. What do you think? 

I love it. I think that all points to a similar almost respect and tentativeness of still putting it back on them to that we believe in them to make the best choice for them but that we're sharing something for them and the asking of permission is also very respectful and they'll be much more receptive, but most of us in the world, like without being therapists, or without learning, even as therapists, I still made so many mistakes that I've learned along the way and have to work very hard to be intentional and to pause and think it through. But I just want to normalize that. We often say we're not really good at apologizing. We're not really good at communicating. We are so much more naturally inclined to try to control and versus really offer. 

You know, it's totally trainable. What I watch happen in these dynamics between adult children and their parents is not in every situation. Everyone is on that whole continuum that you mentioned, from how cut off they are and what they're really needing in their life varies. But the ones who are really trying to reconcile. It's remarkable how, just like with a couple, how much they could have missed an opportunity for harmony and for breakthroughs, really, if they weren't really investing in learning how to communicate differently and to be self-reflective and self-aware. 

Rachel, I don't think. I imagine you would agree. I don't. In my experience, this doesn't have to be super sophisticated. Yes. Practice helps. We get more comfortable. We're able to access a lot more language. But just noticing, Oh! I notice I'm having a lot of fear, and I want to react, like having that be somewhat visible. 

Yeah. 

And I'm not sure what to say or do right now. 

Yes. But what has to first come is a consciousness shift, which is that it's not my job anymore to manage or control or keep my expectations overlaid onto what their life's gonna be like. And that is, I find like it's a grieving process. And that's where it's so liberating. Once you do, let go. Like I found when my second child, when the second one got married was our son. And that was a little another stage of empty nesting. Like it's not just going off to college. Like I realized, like I felt this instinctive like involuntary relief. Like it is not on me anyway. This is them. And then I could just be more witness to their life choices. And of course, it's very painful if I'm concerned about something or if they're struggling, or it still revisits some of the things that are hard that they've picked certain things in their life path. It's not what I would have wanted for them. But they're such good kids, and they're doing so many things that are true to them. And so I just focus on that and let go. Which brings me to something that I just want to acknowledge is the pain for the parent. I wanted to validate that, and that you can have a hard time getting out of bed, especially the moms. 

Oh my gosh. I was telling you before we got started that I have a couple that's negotiating with an estranged adult child, where the adult child has set boundaries, and there are a lot of things and layers and aspects that are making it very complicated. But she's like on Instagram, there's a site called Mother Wound or something, and it's. It's so heart-wrenching. And I think in those, what that is discussing is like this, really, maybe toxic behavior that the adult child has been experiencing. And so she's like, questioning herself, and like, she's like the mom that did all the things. And so just like, was I abusive or like, you know, just really wondering. And it's devastating for both of them. And also, when you talk about the pain and the dynamics, do you want to speak about potentially when two parents are involved and they're in a couple, like a marriage or a relationship, parenting an adult child? My feeling is often like they might have places where they're on the same page, but they tend to operate a little differently. And do you want to talk about how this can add another? 

Yes, I want to just put that in a little. Put a little box on my paper. I want to get to that in just a second. Because you said something just now that like opened up some gates, and that is that I find that with a lot of parents, when they don't know what they've done, they feel like they've been such good parents, and many of them really are. It's very complex to try to parse it out, to sort out what's them, what's me. And I find that it's not even in balance at the beginning. It's really more of the “on us”. And the ownership is typically on the parent. And I liken that to the fact that we are their source. And so let's hold space. 

I felt like it was a gift to give my children that each, in their own time, in their twenties, came to me one more than the other, with grievances they had of, like, things I don't even remember saying or things that I did or didn't do. And one of the most painful things is that parenting is like, felt like my life mission, you know, like. So I just remember the pain. But I had it thankfully enough, like enough exposure and enough whatever I was given that I just knew, like, I'm just so glad you're telling me. And that must have been really hard. So those are the kind of things where we want to first make sure we create a space. Even though I had my whole other explanations and there was time for that later. 

One of them has children of her own. She's seeing some other, she sort of comes to it herself. Like, actually, I don't think that leaving me at camp was the worst thing. Actually. It was probably good for me. I don't know, whatever it was. But at the same time, to appreciate that there's, even if it's not fair, and even though there's still likely something that you're going to learn about yourself that is causing them to pull away, and that you just didn't understand or know before. And so, even without meeting with the adult child, I just started doing investigative work together. Like, what have you heard? What have their siblings said? Where have you gotten any data? Tell me the interactions that led to them. Da, da, da. 

Or tell me anything they've ever said to you, or what their childhood was like? Like, you can start putting together the pieces for that particular child. How you were with them wasn't perhaps what they needed at times. And so, it's not all or nothing. It doesn't mean discounting any of the good things. But there's an interface between you and your adult child, that soul and your soul. That means that then maybe, 

They're maybe hypersensitive too, and

Yes, yes. And I appreciate you pausing here because I've heard adult children talk about, oh, I can never go to my parent. After all, they'll just go into this guilt of like, “I'm such a bad parent,” and like this shame spiral. So it's like that now becomes a focus. And as you're describing, if there's enough ability to just hold for a minute, to hold space, that it's such an opportunity for an adult child to be seen and an opportunity for a little bit more understanding. And while the facts and whatever is being described might be different than what the parent would have recollected, or that isn't even the thing. It's like they had an experience, and they want that to be seen and heard and held and responded to. Like, that is where we have repair. 

Exactly. And we're just not trained in this. But you can get training in this. Like, I just was fortunate enough to be exposed and whatever that, like, it could have gone. So the inclination was to do what most people do, which is to defend. Or what about all the other things? Or center my own feelings versus hers or his. So I think the key to holding that, like, space to just listen and move away from the logic and move toward the emotion. And what a gift you give that the most important person to hold that space would be your parents. It would mean the most to you. Like you said, the data. We just get so caught up. The ego gets so caught up in. Hold on, this one truth isn't being factored in, or that it's okay. 

How I'm being characterized. I'm a bad mom, or I'm a bad dad. Like that, that isn't the thing it's more of. And can I listen? And is there something, a grain of truth or something that I can. How does this make sense? Like, the story may make no sense to me, but is there a part of this that I can get? I think I was sharing the couple that I work with, and I believe that the adult child likely is on the spectrum of a few different things, and perhaps his perception, again, might feel grossly different, and also his wanting to feel seen, or maybe having felt so different. Right? And how that was, like, how there was space for that and honor for that. And I think they did a beautiful job in the way that they knew how. But perhaps there's a calling, right? 

As we're being invited into something like this, it offers a new understanding that we can operate differently. I mean, that's calling us up to another cycle that could be even more. 

Healthy for everyone, and that, not really having judgment as part of it. Like, why would you have known how to? How do you respond to somebody who's potentially on the spectrum? Or like, it's we're not. Like, everyone isn't like having their doctorate and parent education, but if you're open to growing and open to learning and trust that it's happening for you and not to you, then you can really, let yourself lean into it. Like, welcome it, accept it. Even while you're aching and you're sobbing, you just still lean into this idea that it's a friendly universe or something here that's trying to be revealed that will help me grow, help my whole lineage navigate something. 

And yeah, you've said something so beautiful here. It's happening for you, not to you. And for let's say the adult child. Cause I have another client coming to mind, her mother, speaking about control and right and wrong, lives in a very, at least how my client describes. I've never met Mom, but there are so many examples. And even though she just went on a trip, Dad confided in her about these challenges. And it's visible to the family. But. And even though I was curious, I was like, has there ever been a time when she's thought about maybe exploring this? And she's like, well, she's mentioned once or twice, but it feels like it's too big. And so in the sense of like, for a parent to look at. And if they've, I mean, as humans, we construct ways to cope and live in the world. And if we're of a certain age, we know that works, and we know there might be some ways in which it doesn't work. But, like, this is what we know to be exploring something different can feel incredibly terrifying. 

Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. And, remarkably, any of us can actually navigate these because we're all still evolving. And our levels of, like, what we've experienced in our lineage and in our own life experience and our neurologies and what. There are so many factors that can make us more or less equipped to handle them. The sophistication, especially as the younger generation is like, kind of asking for more psychological sophistication and like more nuance of how we actually wanna be talked to and how we wanna be given space and be supported. And it's just not like you just go along because that's the way your parents did it. That's good. But it is also creating a lot of rippling effects. So I just admire anyone who's able to. 

There's usually something you can discover if you're the parent, that is likely something that you can glean that even if it feels too like a disproportionate response from the child, you don't know what it's like to be them. You don't know what it's like. But you can still learn something that you can take toward repair. But I would recommend getting help to do it when I'm present at these interactions. There's so much training I do in a sense or coaching and even right in the minute of like, okay, let's see if you can say that a little differently, otherwise it would just spin off, just like with couples, like, it can just go from zero to a million in a second. And so, let yourself all be in training on some level. 

Yes. 

I think it supports. 

There's some coaching on all levels just to be able to have this, stay focused on the opportunity for understanding. 

So with couples, it can bring to the surface issues or fractures or differences that they're sharing in their relationship, and how they are. Parenting is one. In my book Soulful Marriage, I have a friendship wheel, like the eight friendships of a relationship, and one of them is parenting. And it's one of the facets that either could really be an asset to your relationship, a deepening and a joy, and it could also be a huge problem in your relationship. So this certainly awakens the parenting aspect of your relationship that can overlap with some of the others. So the key is that sometimes it means each parent deals with their relationship with the adult child separately. Sometimes. 

Okay. 

I find that to be the case, that it's a different story for each parent. And while they must stay unified and seek help to get guidance so that you're on the same page as much as possible, you still might have your own individual relationship with them and serve a different role in their life that you can perhaps take different tracks on how to help repair. 

Yes. When you were speaking about themes, I think we've touched on some themes. We didn't specifically lay it out, but one of the themes I'm thinking about is how a couple may have different parenting tendencies. One tends to be a little bit more wanting to have boundaries, and the other one tends to want to be much more relational. And they could kind of judge each other. One is too strict, one is too permissive. Right. This type of thing. And this can show up even in adult child relationships. 

Yes. There are so many facets that they could differ on, anywhere from financial to how to support them, or not support them. But what they can both learn to do, though, is to listen better. And there could be variation in the willingness of that, and the appreciation for how important that is. But that's something that, regardless of what you decide to do, and the other facets of the dynamic is that what helps to repair is for the adult child to feel like, I'm starting to acknowledge the things, and I want to learn more about how I wasn't there for you or things that I'm doing today that might not be. And I promise I'll listen better this time. And that sometimes can melt a little bit of the ice. 

But it's still sometimes like to know that it's being facilitated sometimes, and that so it's not just them with the parents. 

Do you find that sometimes if a parent is approaching the relationship from a different tendency, that they might be in service of a different need, where, like the couple that I'm thinking of, he's wanting to create more health in the system? They've been very accommodating. Maybe even they would say codependent or like enabling throughout. I mean, just loving and giving, and there's just no end to the way in which they love and show up. And so calling a boundary around, we're not going to do this and not have reciprocity of some sort, right? For you to treat us and really negative, hurtful, and harmful ways. So there's health in that, how he wants to do it. 

There could be lots of possibilities where, for mom, she's in this place of like, I want to have a connection and for there to be love and that real bond. So you could see perhaps that both strengths and challenges could be done in ways that are maybe not optimal. 

Right. And they're in different places with it. And often it's hard at this stage to start setting those boundaries. Like, those are seeds that have been planted into bitter fruit. If you've been over-giving their entire life, that's really not a service to the child and is a nuance of how you do that in a balanced way with love and boundaries, and empathy. And you know, you can start to work on that as an adult and already estranged, but you often don't have the leverage to do that, I find. So sometimes step one is first for them to feel heard because it's just practical. They're typically not going to be interested unless you can't change that whole system. But you can't go back in time at this moment and start planting those seeds. 

But then, after, perhaps you come with curiosity, you come with like giving them the most generous interpretation. There must be something we're doing, and we would like to know. And then from there, you can evolve more into perhaps we talk about how the chapter will look going forward, that's mutually respectful. But sometimes it's quantum though, where if a parent is so over giving and has no personal boundaries and they neglect themselves so much, then sometimes we just focus on that for a long time and trust that in a quantum way that as you stop giving away your energy so much and you start nourishing your own and honoring yourself, then just trust that process and you'll get more clarity as you detach. Because 

 So it's tricky when you're reaching that stage of how you handle making a change from your end as a parent with somebody who's cutting off ties. 

When you say quantum, I'm hearing that as there are almost other ways in which the dynamic shift gets transmitted. 

Right. 

That if I'm focusing on my wellbeing and holding some of my energy for myself, that on some level, that's felt. 

Yes, okay, absolutely. It's like two things that aren't in the same location affect each other. That's quantum. Like, I love that. Like, how two atoms can be in two separate places, and once they've had a connection, they can be far away and they're still influencing each other. So sometimes that's all we can do when there's a really severe estrangement, or sometimes the parent isn't ready that they've realized they have overgiven their whole lives, and they said they need some time because they don't want to enter back into a toxic situation. 

Yeah, well, I know there's so much here. Is there anything that you want to mention that could give people a little bit more direction, you've talked about, really, if there's an opportunity to listen, to focus on what can be learned, and being open to that possibility of growth, that it might come in a really hard package. 

But it is. Yes. The first thing I would say is just to be really compassionate with yourself because it is known to be one of the most devastating, unthinkable kinds of ruptures or fears that we have. And then what I always recommend, which is also in the first pillar in my book, in a soulful marriage, is your relationship with yourself. So the first step is really to work on getting grounded. And there's typically a lot of ruminating that goes on, just a lot of dysregulation. And so really focusing on getting yourself, you know, centered, grounded, loved, healed. You know, like working on that and valuing yourself and your takeaway. Like what might be some of my lessons here is part of that focus. 

And that doesn't have to negate all the good. 

Exactly. And maybe that self-worth may be a thing that you put too much into. We all typically do, like, how we are as parents for our worth or anything we do, anything achievement we have. We think that's who we are. And that's just not true. So it can be a real opportunity to unconditionally regard yourself with value and love and worth and to lean into that, whatever it is that you think that seems like a theme in your life in other ways, that maybe this is putting a spotlight on it or intensifying that. I do recommend reaching out for help for this because it's just really tricky. And then to begin learning what it is that perhaps you could learn about your own growth, and what might be pushing them, the way being as open as possible to that. And then, if you would like to work on repairing, start learning how to make an apology. That is really more about accountability and about growth. 

To really feed that, like, ownership around this is what I can really hear and understand and resonate. And I'm willing to participate in showing up differently around. 

Yeah, exactly. 

And I can feel the value of that inside myself. And then, as you said, depending on the level of understanding, there might be limits. Is there anything you want to say about what would be helpful for couples? Because I could also appreciate in darker moments what's getting brought up could be almost weaponized between the couple. Right. That it's actually highlighting something that, like, I have another client that really struggles with his wife, and his daughter's now struggling with. The wife and the daughter in their interaction might give her father eyes of like, “No, you're not wrong”. 

And it's this that opens up so many scenarios. Sometimes I've seen where partners who are really one are like, typically the men who have their limits with this, like, just more common. I'm not saying it's always the case. There are definitely exceptions. But I've seen where the spouse is like, I'm done. I'm not putting any more energy into this. We have our lives. Let's go traveling. We've got other children. Like, enough already, you know, and she can't let it go. Having tried to negotiate how to separate individuals in their relationship with this child and what they want to work on versus the priority that needs to be in a marriage, or because it's. He's at his limit. 

So I think it's really always about trying to see where this is showing you where you can work on growth in your relationship, more letting go of expectations, where you can become more unconditionally loving, where it's showing you areas that you need to work on to prioritize your relationship. I think you should not collect your relationship because this is taking over that pillar. Three of the four pillars in my book are priorities. You need to make sure you're nourishing this relationship, and you have boundaries around this in your life, as hard as it is. 

At the same time, see if you can find a way, if you're not on the same page with this, to meet with somebody who can be your neutral third party that you both trust, that it's not the marriage making the decision or each of you with each other, that you've trusted an expert that's going to guide you. And you just have to accept and lean into as best as you can what they're suggesting. So it takes the power struggle out of my way versus your way, totally. 

And if I can hearken back to something you said around the opportunity, that if perhaps the adult child is identifying something that actually might be happening in the couple bond, that they have a beautiful opportunity to do work around, that could be the quantum to. Or support for that quantum change as well. Okay, great. 

But that has to be done carefully because, like you said, it could be weaponized like you. We're going to want to point out the other. This is what you do with me, too. But that's why a professional can help you navigate, not point fingers. In fact, the best way would be for each to look inside themselves, I wonder, and create a safe space where you're patient with your partner and not try to keep it separate, but where you each look at. Okay, I wonder how this is a familiar message I'm getting about my growth. That's the ideal. And not everybody's emotionally intelligent or as excited about growth or ready for growth as others, but that would be what to shoot for is to 

Yes. Well, speaking of interest and growth, you've mentioned your book a few times, and I know we're transitioning here. If for people who want to start incorporating some of what you're talking about here, what would you like to direct people towards? 

So, well, I think I can reach it. Like my life's work so far. It's a book that's about helping you heal and get closer in your relationship, and especially closer with yourself, your true self. 

Rachel, will you read it for people listening to the podcast? 

Oh, sure. That's right. I'm showing you a picture of it. It's called A Soulful Marriage: Healing Your Relationship with Responsibility, Growth, Priority, and Purpose. And I'm finding that there are people, parents, who I'm working with to help with their relationship with their adult children, that on their own, they're finding it. And there's a lot of tremendous overlap of the journey of what you can do to help with your relationship with your adult child that you can also find in there as well. 

Is there anything else you want to mention? I'll make sure to put the link to the book on today's shownotes.

Whoever is experiencing this, I just want you to know my heart is open. And, you deserve to be cared about through this and that, to believe in your capacity to use this to reveal, turn something bitter into something sweet. 

And do you have a website for people who want to, like, find you? 

Yes. And that's where you can find where to purchase my book. I have a book tab, so Dr. Rachel Glick, which is drrachelglik.com, and I'm on Instagram and Facebook, and I think LinkedIn as well. But, you know, on my website, you can find ways to learn more about things I've written. I have a media tab with other articles that I've written. Other podcasts are going to be on there shortly, too. But this is one of my favorites. 

Yay. Wonderful. 

For sure. Yes. 

Well, thank you so much for all that you've shared. I can just appreciate how much you really assist people and guide people in these very important principles that are very holistic and supportive. So thank you. 

Thank you so much for this opportunity. I'm just so glad to know you, Jessica. 

Likewise. Likewise.