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Are you constantly racing against the clock, feeling like life’s demands are pulling you in every direction—and yet, your own needs, goals, and relationships are slipping through the cracks? Burnout, overwhelm, and the tricky balance of work, family, and personal fulfillment are challenges that leave many people wondering: Does time own me, or can I truly shape how I live within it?

In this episode, the conversation delves deep into how our relationship with time can be transformed from a relentless source of stress into a foundation for personal wholeness and relational strength. You’ll hear practical strategies for recognizing the real drivers behind burnout, prioritizing what lights you up, integrating wellness into busy schedules, and collaboratively setting goals within families or partnerships. Whether you’re looking to manage your calendar more efficiently or searching for greater meaning and connection in your everyday moments, this episode offers insight, tools, and a paradigm shift to help you bend time to work for you—instead of against you.

Michelle Niemeyer is a speaker, coach, and former attorney who teaches professionals how to bend time so they can stay sharp, productive, and profitable – without burning out. After finding her way to burnout and back in her own high-performing legal career, Michelle created The Art of Bending Time, a framework that helps people connect the dots across work, life, and purpose to magnetize success and reclaim their joy. She helps businesses retain top talent, boost development, and keep their people energized and engaged – all while making the magic

Episode Highlights

05:53 Understanding and recognizing burnout.

09:43 Integrating wholeness over compartmentalization.

11:08 Discovering personal sparks and daily joys.

15:19 Prioritizing wellness for personal effectiveness.

18:17 Setting priorities and learning to delegate.

22:55 Eliminating time wasters: Internal and external distractions.

26:51 Applying SWORD analysis to family goals.

30:17 Aligning goals with genuine desire.

36:13 Shifting responsibilities according to strengths and passions.

Your Check List of Actions to Take

• Identify Your Spirit Sparks: Take a few moments each day to notice and savor the small things that light you up, like a warm cup of coffee or a moment outdoors.
• Prioritize Quality Sleep: Make your bedroom a phone-free zone to reduce interruptions, improve rest, and start your day more refreshed.
• Hydrate and Eat Well: Focus on drinking enough water and eating a variety of whole, colorful foods to support your physical and mental health.
• Integrate Movement: Find simple ways to move your body regularly, whether it's a walk outside or standing to stretch throughout the day.
• Assess and Address Time Drains: Notice what tasks or habits waste your time (like procrastination or environmental distractions), and create systems or boundaries to minimize them.
• Practice Whole-Person Living: Show up authentically in all areas of your life, sharing aspects of yourself at work and at home to foster real connection.
• Clarify Priorities as a Family or Couple: Have honest conversations about what truly matters, so your time and energy align with your shared goals and values.
• Use the SWORD Analysis for Big Decisions: Evaluate Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, Risks, and Desire before pursuing major goals together, ensuring everyone’s buy-in and avoiding unnecessary drains.

Mentioned

Link for free community access to the SWORD tool

The Art of Bending Time (program link)

12 Relationship Principles to Strengthen Your Love (free guide)

Connect with Michelle Niemeyer

Website:michelleniemeyer.com

Facebook:facebook.com/groups/theartofbendingtime

LinkedIn:linkedin.com/in/michelle-melin-niemeyer

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

If you have a topic you would like to be discussed, please contact us by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here. 

Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship. 

Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here. 

Thank you!  

*With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon if you purchase the book from this link.

Episode Transcript

Michelle, thank you so much for joining us. 

I'm happy to be here. 

Yes, I am looking forward to our conversation. I know many people, myself included, wrestle with the sense of time, and you have a lot to say about how we relate to time, how to spend it, and how to organize ourselves as it relates to all the demands. And before we dive into our topic, you've been really clear about your story and would love for you to share a little bit more about how this became a focus for you. I know you were an attorney, a lawyer, and you shifted into burnout prevention and really helping people look at their relationship with time 2 optimize their success and their fulfillment in life. Where would you like to begin? Here. 

Okay. I found myself about 10 years ago with an autoimmune diagnosis that really was the big trigger. I had a moment, and I say a moment. Years of burnout where I had really just been. I was a solo practitioner attorney. I had left a big firm environment. So I'd left an environment where I learned to work in a very detail-oriented, very professional way. And I went into my own practice, and I did that with, you know, you don't have the same level of support. Right. With technology, there's a lot more you can do. And I was in an area of law where I really could practice without a lot of support. I had times where I had a paralegal and times where I didn't. But in the long run, I found myself in a position where the workload was controllable. 

The pressure came, adding on volunteer work that was intended initially as a way to market, but turned into a way to escape my relationship. To be honest, I was in a really emotionally abusive marriage. And when I started my practice, I was spending four days a week after work, going to meetings. I was on boards. I was on. I ended up being an elected member of the village council where I live. I was doing volunteer work that literally was like a second full-time job. And I'd get home at 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock at night, and wake up and start the next day. And then I was making a point of taking Fridays or Mondays off so that we could have three-day weekends on our boat. 

And I would give my ex-husband focused time during those times. But it was just all a lot. So I got out of the burnout rut, in part, frankly, a year-long relationship podcast. But seriously, by leaving a really bad relationship, which went through therapy, and the whole thing. And sadly, 

 So ultimately, I left. And I ended up working to fill the gaps.

Oh my goodness. 

And then I started to feel very hit a point where I got very resentful about this. I felt like my career as a lawyer had taken away a lot of things. I was giving my time to my clients. I was giving my time to my community. I had given my time to Mag's husband. And I felt like an empty shell of a person, that it just. When you get burned out, you kind of become dead inside, and you stop seeing the good parts of life. You literally can't see it. So I put together a program to help lawyers. This was back in like 2019. And I presented that at some ABA functions, and it's being sold as a continuing education program out of a place in New York. 

Then I decided I really wanted to reach a bigger audience because it's not just lawyers who have these problems. 

Yes. 

And I thought about who I was when I was the person who didn't know yet that these problems were brewing. And what I realized was that I thought I had a time management problem. Early on, I had gotten into this point where I felt like I was spinning my Wheels. I'd go to work, and I just wasn't getting things done, and I couldn't figure out why. And I was self-employed, so I wasn't going to get fired for it. But the fact was that my productivity was way off, and it probably was because of the burnout, not because of any productivity issue. That was real. I mean, it's real, but it's not about time management a hundred percent. But the first thing I did when I thought I had a problem was buy a time management course. 

So I realized like, okay, that person I was when I didn't know what the problem was, somebody who thought I had a time management problem. So I created a program that's about time, but it's really about maximizing our life to make it the best time we can have, the most productive, the happiest, the most connected, the most joyful. And I looked at all the ways that all the things I did got me to this place. And that's what the “Art of Bending Time” does. It kind of pulls all that stuff together and creates a way that, instead of time being like a ruler that's a flat one-dimensional linear measurement, you're making it more like a balloon around a ruler, where you can make it bigger, and you can get more connection. 

You can reach wider into your community, for instance, and build a team and make things happen in a better way through those synergies. 

Well, thank you so much for sharing so much about how this emerged for you. And it sounded like there were some really important indicators and significant domains of your life that were not working or feeling greatly problematic in certain ways. And you were getting warning signals and some changes. And even still, it resulted in you really making some significant changes and continuing to really optimize or fine-tune that in a way. And then it sounds like you're pivoting into this concept or framework that you developed, the art of ending time. 

So. 

And in a bigger context, it's really helping people have a sense of wholeness inside themselves that they don't feel that time is imposed on them, that they can be in time and space from more of this, well, health and wellness. Is that right? 

I couldn't have said it better myself. One of the things that I really like to say to people is that we are whole people living whole lives. And

And when we put our parts of our lives into little boxes. We're literally hiding parts of ourselves from the people we love, hiding our relationships outside of work from the people we work with. So nobody gets to see our whole selves, and we don't get to use those parts of ourselves that sometimes are really awesome and that make us happy and have joy. 

That's super important. I mean, just even the framework there that we have to be our professional selves, or we're in this work mode, and then we don't access parts of ourselves. And then conversely, in our private world or more intimate spaces, we don't access maybe some of our professional skill sets. And really there the whole time. 

And I mean, one thing that I saw a lot of when I was still involved and engaged in lawyer community stuff was that spouses were not treated well at professional events. So a couple of times, I went with my ex-husband, who was a chef, to a lawyer event that I attended almost every year in Arizona. And after he went twice, he was like, I'm not going to do this again. I don't want to go. And I, he loved the trip to Arizona. I was like, so why? Why don't you want to go? And he's like, I go to these cocktail parties, and when these people look at me, and the first thing they say is, are you a lawyer too? 

And then some of them, literally, I saw them do it after he mentioned it to me, they would literally physically turn their body away from him, like to shut him out of the conversation because they didn't know what to say to him, and they had no, they didn't want to talk about anything but law. They'd gotten so wrapped up in that they couldn't think beyond that. And part of what I do with the art of bending time, and this is where we get into stuff related to relationships, is help people to understand that what we're doing professionally can be enhanced by having connections outside of your office, outside of your field, so to speak. 

And that's a paradigm shift. So I have a question, Michelle. As you're laying out the professional lawyer life and how you were operating, success-driven, you also had a relationship that you allocated. Even though the dynamics weren't healthy per se, you still allocated a significant amount of time investing in that relationship, that marriage. So for someone listening, it sounds as though with your shifting your focus and your paradigm, the way you oriented shifted to one who's looking at it from a place of quantifying, it sounds like you added a lot to your so-called schedule in that you now were exercising, and you were eating more clean, which sounds stereotypically isn't convenient eating. 

Thus, it makes a little bit more like whole foods or cooking, or like these things are time-intensive, and then you know, these synergistic kind of relationship connections that you're recommending and the meditation and the well-being, I'm all for it. Like I'm talking to someone who very much is. This is part of their core values. And also for someone listening, that's like, okay, relationship to time, who feels this sense of pressure and the competing needs, whether or not they're just their occupation, their profession, their relationship, or their children and family and domestic life. “I just cannot keep adding on.” 

“Right. Can you help with the art of?” 

“Bending time, and how you were describing, if we bring our whole self, then it's a different dynamic. Please help us understand that.” 

“Absolutely.” Let me start with one of the first things I do with people, which is help them identify what I call the spirit sparks that light them up. And that is not getting a new outfit or going to a fancy dinner or a safari in Africa. That is smelling the coffee in the morning, going for a walk, and feeling the breeze on your skin or the sunshine on your face, or seeing, you know, a squirrel run up a tree, or playing with your kid and having that beautiful moment between you. And everybody has these things that light them up. Everybody's different. So one thing I encourage everybody to do is find that.

Find what kinds of things you might be super physical and just moving your body gets you kind of out of a rut and makes you feel better. So everybody has things that help them that way, that make them feel good, that give them that sense of life that it needs. I treat this like fuel. You want to like strive to get microdoses of these things and do it proactively. Once you figure out what they are, so that you're having them in your personal life, you're having them at work, you're having them throughout your day, and they kind of help you stay up, they help you stay happier, they help you stay a little more on task, a little more motivated, and more whole. 

I'm imagining it's nourishing the wholeness as you're describing this. I love your articulation and also the pacing of this, how it's integrated. And this is seemingly so on point with what you're just saying. 

So that's like the first, most Important primary concept. 

Okay. 

The second one is making sure that you are 

So that means getting sleep, getting uninterrupted sleep without your phone in your bedroom, pinging text messages in your brain, half on, trying to listen to it. It means drinking enough water, being hydrated. The impact of hydration is huge. People don't realize how massive it is. Just drinking enough water can make a difference for people. And making sure they have the right electrolyte level, eating, I'm going to say reasonably healthy. I tell people, eat the rainbow, make sure you're getting enough fruits and vegetables, and you're eating different colors of things, and you're eating real food. Then there are, you know, you want to exercise. And when I say exercise, I mean move your body. 

Walk a decent amount or get up and move yourself around every hour or so while you're at your office, or take a walking meeting once in a while, if that's possible. Lift some weights. You know, we want strength, flexibility, and some cardio. But you know, at a minimum, move your body, and you want to be able to stay in a reasonably low stress mode because stress, as we know, spikes cortisol, spikes insulin. Like you end up with metabolic issues tied to stress. You can have chronic inflammation, you can have all kinds of things tied to stress. So you want to do these 

things that help de-stress you and keep you focused. And you know, they help you stay on task. They help you say if you're in a flow state, you get things done better, faster. 

“And I say better, you're going to be more accurate if you're in a flow state than you are if you're distracted.” 

It almost sounds like that's the side effect, like that you're really thinking about it. 

How much time do people waste fixing the mistake they made because they were scattered and they were in a hurry? Yeah. How much time do they waste because they can't find their keys because they're distractible, and they're brain foggy because they're not healthy? Literally, they're not healthy. And that's why those things are happening. 

Would you say that the recommendations that you're offering, again, some of which people are familiar with, the priority is on wellness, and that time, it will be what will get done? Like it sometimes, the old school model. I remember in undergrad, speaking of different programs, I remember feeling like I almost had this pressure and this worry of like, oh, I don't have enough time for all these papers and exams. And I just. It was kind of like this priority of these grades matter more than anything. And I caught myself. And I remember shifting my narrative to, I have all the time that I need. It wasn't what I actually believed. 

But it was kind of the same amount of time. Right. But it's all yours. It's your attitude. 

And I also was just prioritizing, like, I am living this. I need to show up for it. And, like, it just feels more like I get to breathe versus this constriction of like. Like, panic and worry that it's like, I'm not gonna finish or be able to accomplish the goal. 

Yeah. 

If you're inviting people to shift their priority to their wholeness and wellness, then time is a space they're living in. But it's not. Time is more important, and productivity is more important. 

So a lot of what this is about is prioritizing. Okay. When you have those, you know what lights you up, you know what matters to you know what your values are. You have a sense of, my family comes first or my career comes first, or I care about helping my community with X, Y, or Z, or, you know, right now, taking care of my mom is the most important thing that I can be doing because I don't know how long I'll have her in my life anymore. 

Right. And there are things that, you know, we can do. 

One of the things, as I said, 

“But you also need to think about which things you're putting your time into. 

Absolutely. So you're not usually talking to the person that's like, oh, I'll sleep when I'm dead. That kind of thing. 

That may be how they are now, because they're like. But somebody. They're like, something's wrong. I feel burned out. I'm not happy, or I've gone through this big change. 

Or, you know, they're more primed for change because they're recognizing. 

They realize they're killing themselves. They don't really know what to do about it. And there are a lot of people like that.” Yeah. And, you know, who are, like, trapped. They feel like, I'm trapped. I don't know what to do. I mean, that's classic burnout, somebody who's, you know, they're an entrepreneur, or they're an executive, and they've worked up to a certain level. But classic for executives, they haven't learned how to truly delegate. They micromanage everything. They feel personally responsible for everything, which is, obviously, you are responsible, but part of building a great team is developing a team that you can count on. 

And I had a wonderful mentor when I was working in D.C. in my first law job, and he said to me one day, he said, michelle, when I'm in a meeting with the lawyers I've hired in my law firm, I'm the dumbest guy in the room, and I want it that way. 

Nice. 

And that was his attitude. He's like, I'm the dumbest guy in the room, and I want to be the dumbest guy in the room. I want Supreme Court clerks in my firm. I don't want people like me. 

And also, if you're paying someone to do it, you want them to educate. 

You or date you. Well, but I mean, he hired really bright, really competent people who he knew would shine, and then he allowed them to. He gave them the support they needed. And he said,  go forth and. And be great. And he didn't say, oh, no, you can't do it that way because I do it this way. He recognized that they could grow into themselves and be great, and not necessarily do it exactly like he does. 

Yeah, I love it. 

And, you know, so that's important. And that's important in whatever dynamic you're in. It could be in your family. It could be with your kids. 

Oh, my gosh. Yes. 

Right. 

When couples are arguing about the correct way to load the dishwasher, fold the towels, or these types of things. That. And. 

And why? Right. If the dishes come out of the dishwasher clean and somebody puts them away, who cares how they were put in the dishwasher? 

Right. And you have your. Whoever. It's like the cooperation and the collaboration are the goal, and that's more important to feel like there are shared contributions. So, Michelle, I know that you have so much to offer here as far as the bending time framework. I also know you have the “SWORD analysis.” How would you? We don't have a ton of time, so how would you like to focus? Do you want to finish talking more about the art of bending time, or would you like to describe some of the sword? 

It's part of the same thing. 

Great. 

So I've described to you the basics, which is what I call a busyness detox. And there are two, like hardcore time management parts of that, which I didn't talk about with you, but I'll just give you the context. 

Okay. 

Those are my, I call them time-suck ninja skills. One has to do with your internalized time sucks. That's things like what do you do to self-soothe if something's hard, if something's boring, if something's you don't want to do, you don't want to have the hard conversation, or you don't want to do your accounting because you hate doing accounting. And I can procrastinate to the end of this end, like forever, if I don't feel like getting into my accounting. Right. But how many people like you procrastinate for so long that the project takes longer because you forgot about what the stuff was or where the paperwork was? Right. 

Because if you let it go too long, you have to recreate your expense reports or whatever that thing is, that if you did it then and you were focused on it in a really easy way, it wouldn't get hard. You made it hard because you avoided it. 

building them into your schedule so they get done. And then the other is what I call external time sucks, which are environmental things. And that can involve the people around you. It can involve, for instance, if you have a boss who comes in on Friday and drops a project on your desk at 4 o'clock every week, and is like, oh, I need this on Monday. And you find yourself like tearing your hair out trying to meet your family's obligations. 

How do you politically handle that nicely and work with that person to support their need to know what their workflow is in a way that you don't end up in that situation on Friday? 

Yes. 

How do you, for instance, what if there's noise that distracts you, or there's light that distracts you? Or clutter for some people, like just having a cluttered workspace, can cause them to be less efficient. And that can go into your home as well. You know, you don't have a lot of time. You feel it makes you feel crazy that you've got garbage all over your house. You've got kids dropping a path. They drop their stuff wherever they walk. The shoes are in one place. When I was a kid, my mom we lived in Minnesota. And my mom finally came up with a way to solve the shoe problem, which was that she put a box on the far side of our unheated garage. 

And if our shoes were on the floor, they got put in the box, and we'd get up in the morning, and mom, where'd my shoes go? Over there, we learned fast. Yes, I'll say that frozen shoes in Minnesota are no joke. But anyway, you learn to find ways to work with the people around you and find ways to work with the environment around you to get what you need. If you have glaring sunlight in your eyes, find or get blinds or reorient your desk. It's amazing the kinds of things that I learn from people interrupting their ability to get their work done. Sometimes it's a home office, and the kids come home from school. Sometimes, it can be various things, but 

Diverse people's lives. 

And if partners and couples can identify this, and sometimes it takes a bit of reflection to recognize what's getting in the way, what's interfering, and then to be able to communicate and perhaps negotiate together to support each person's different ways in which help them be in that state of flow. 

Okay, so now we get to this word analysis and this, where this works really well. And I wanted to get you through those parts, because this all comes together really nicely. 

Great. 

When you do a SWORD analysis, it is an analysis of what I call a big, hairy goal. One of those one to three to five or ten-year big goals that you have. And, as a couple, you want to have goals like that. So you're working together towards some things, and you feel like you're both participating in something important in your lives as a family. You want to have that with children involved. So the children feel like they're part of it. 

Nice. 

And you want to have them as a in your team, at work, as an individual. This can be used in all those contexts. 

Got it. 

So you take the goal, and the first thing you look at is the S, which is for “strengths.” The strengths are what you already have. So let's say that you have a goal as a family to buy a vacation home at a place that you all love. You love going to. Let's say you love to hike in the mountains and you want to have a vacation home. Hiking in the mountains and spending time there for weekends, summers, and whatever. And so, you know, your strengths are at this point, let's say you've taken several vacations to the area. You love the area you know, and what things you like to do there. You have a sense of what the region is like and where you might want to go. 

Maybe you've met a real estate agent, and you have somebody to help you, and you've, you're getting your information together, and you know what that is. You know what the cost is going to be, that kind of thing. If you don't know that's part of your, at this point, part of your weaknesses. 

Right. 

So that's the beginning, just having the information. You need to be realistic about it. Because for a lot of people, they. If you just have the vision in your head of a house in the desert, it's nothing unless you have reality, right? 

Yes. 

So you want to know what those things are. Then you want to. The next step is what it is. What I look at are “weaknesses.” That's the gap. That's things like how much money do you have to save to have the down payment? Maybe you do need to do research and find out more information. Start actually looking at property, start, you know, making relationships in places or trying places. Maybe you want to go and rent an Airbnb several different weekends, try different locations, and see what they're like so that you have more knowledge. Then you get “opportunities” like this. Well, what are the opportunities of owning this place? It's, you know, to some extent, it may be an income investment. You might be able to rent it out. 

It may be that you just really need a place to decompress and to have fun together. And this is the place where your kids actually talk to you, and you have fun, and you do activities. Right. And you, maybe you ride, you know, ride horses or go hiking or whatever it is you do. What are the “risks?” There can be big risks to this kind of thing. 

Yes. 

This house, which is a second property, may mean that you're spending a bunch of time maintaining it, or it costs enough more that you have to give up things to have it. And there are things that you care about, and if you have it, you feel like you have to spend your time there, which means you're not going to take vacations to other places that you've wanted to see. So you go through this whole analysis, and if this is like a family goal and your kids are older than toddlers, include them. Because when you include them, you might hear things from them that you're not thinking of yourself. Like, well, mom, if I have to spend every weekend at this house, how am I going to go to my friend's Birthday parties? 

Right. 

And now they feel like you don't care about them because you're picking the house over them, having relationships with their friends, or whatever that might be; you want everybody's buy-in. 

Yes, yes. 

And you know, I mean, not for everything, but certainly if this is a family-oriented goal, you want to make sure it's a family-oriented positive and not a family-oriented negative. Oh, we weren't really taking into account what their needs were. And now they're resentful and angry every time we leave on Friday. Right, so you know what happens when I have people go through this analysis. The next thing I do after we've done those four is we go to the D, which is for “desire”. And I say 0 to 10, how much do you want it? And I wait, and sometimes I get, oh, I don't know, a 6 or a 7 or I get a 10 or I get, you know, very rarely do I get lower than a five. And I think that's. 

Frankly, people are embarrassed to come to me with their big goal and then tell me that they don't want it at all, as if it's that bad. 

Right. 

But like if it's in a 6 or 5 to 7 range, if it's not an 8 or higher, I suggest people look at that really carefully before they consider it their big wife goal. 

Right. 

And we go a little deeper into why this is your goal? And a lot of times it's not because they care that much about it. It's because maybe their parents had a vacation home, so they think they should, or all the people they work with have a vacation home because that's part of like the expected, you know, path. You have the fancy house and the fancy car, and the next thing is the vacation home or the yacht or whatever. And so they're kind of like keeping up with the Joneses more than they're doing something that matters to them personally. And they're spending a whole lot of time, money, and effort in the process. No kidding. Those things that don't matter. It's shocking how much happier your life gets. 

Right. And how much easier it is to contend with things that didn't get addressed when you address the things that matter most. 

Exactly. 

And I appreciate it. Thank you for laying this out briefly. I know you could talk extensively about this sort of analysis, and I can appreciate that. Even if the answer is below 4, like how much desire someone has. That's a very useful exercise. It prevents making huge investments of time, energy, and money into something that doesn't really matter, and how much of a drain that is. 

Think about how much of a burden it would put on your family if you and your spouse, in a really well-meaning effort, go through all the lengths it takes to buy a vacation home somewhere, and then your kids don't want to go with you and make it hell every time you want to go. 

Right. 

Think about that. I mean, that's the fantasy of like a place that you've chosen because you think it's going to make a great family experience. And then you find out that, you know, Johnny is afraid of snakes and Mary hates being outside, and neither of them is interested in going there because they don't want to do that on their weekends. 

Exactly. Then, as you mentioned, like if one has had a family tradition and the nostalgia, like the fantasy of what it would be like to own the home, and that actually living into it without doing this sword analysis, the actual lived, real experience is way different than their nostalgia around it. 

There are lots of ways you can have that experience without going to that length. You could be renting a place once in a while and see how you like it, you know, and compromising that way versus going diving off the deep end, so to speak. So a lot of people, that's one example. But there are so many, I mean, people getting graduate degrees they don't really need because their parents expected it of them. So many people do that. They're in a very successful situation. It's not needed by them anymore. It's taking time away from their family, and it's costing them money. They don't even like it, but they feel like they have to get the piece of paper because it's expected. 

Or a couple who are uncertain or have ambivalence about becoming parents, that this could be something to really unpack and explore. And this gives a lot of guidance. Thank you so much. I know we're winding down here. What would you like to help people have, maybe one takeaway or something that you want to mention before we pivot to how people can get in touch with you? 

I would say

Really, at your core, what lights you up? And as part of a couple, you know about each other and help each other get that. 

Yeah, it was beautiful. 

Yeah. 

And this is where it's a life well lived. Because if we're living in accordance with what really matters in our health and our well-being again, the other things can fall away. They're not pressing on us and feeling like we're not meeting up or measuring up when really we are living in alignment and that awareness. 

Exactly. And sometimes we can shuffle what our responsibilities are around the house, and that kind of thing, based on those things that light us up. And that can 

Yeah. My sister loves gardening. I hate gardening. My sister spends tons of time at her house gardening, and it's her escape and her joy, and she absolutely loves it. And I mean, I'm never gonna be married to my sister, but if I were married to my sister and I was the one who had to do the garden, I would go crazy. 

Right. 

You know what I mean? So there are different things like that. Like, if you're looking at how to split up the stuff in the household, there are things that one person might absolutely love to do, and it may not be gender normative. 

Right. 

And so, you know, we want to look at that too, because maybe when my ex and I, we owned a boat, we owned a 40-foot boat here in Miami. And when I left him, I moved to the boat, and I lived on it for eight years, and I kind of got into the mechanical stuff. I own the loss. I love that I didn't do a lot of hands-on. Like I wanted to sort of, but not really. But I mean, I removed my water heater completely and reinstalled the replacement one. The only part I didn't do was put a fixed pipe on, which I didn't have the tools for. 

That's awesome. 

And that's not like girly stuff. Right. But I liked it. I felt like I was accomplishing something. It was like this big challenge, and it was fun. And I never would have thought that, but it also fed. And this goes into the whole life thing. During that timeframe, I became very successful in the realm of insurance coverage law for people with yacht claims. And the reason that I was sought after for that was that I had an understanding of boats and those mechanical things. 

Yes. 

And if I'd never sort of fed that side of me, I never would have had that business opportunity. 

Totally. I love that example. It's wonderful. Well, Michelle, for people who want to learn more about your framework, where would you like to send people or invite them to connect with you? 

Okay. If they're in the United States and if they're not driving their car right now. Since this is a podcast, I always hesitate with the podcast. It's true. I have a text messaging service where you can send the word clarity to 33777. And that will get you to sign up for a free community page, https://www.michelleniemeyer.com/offers/dmNrobgd/checkout. And in that community page, I have downloadable things like a guided meditation and journaling prompts to help you find the sparks that light you up. And I also have a form there for the “SWORD analysis” that people can download and use that form just to give them some guidance as they. 

Excellent. 

I believe I gave you my website connection, https://www.michelleniemeyer.com, that kind of thing. You know, just put those in the show notes, and then they can find me. https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-melin-niemeyer/ 

Excellent. Well, I'll make sure to have the phone number for people who are driving and want to refer back to the show notes so it's easily accessible. And thank you, Michelle, for all that you've shared here today. 

Well, thank you, Jessica. It's been a pleasure.