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Why do so many relationships, despite the best intentions, end up stuck in cycles of hurt, disappointment, or disconnection? We search for “the one,” hope for a soulmate to fulfill us, and cling to romantic ideals—even as we find ourselves repeating old patterns and feeling powerless when things get tough. The real challenge, it seems, isn’t just finding love, but learning how to nurture it consciously and responsibly. What if the secret isn’t about changing others, but transforming how we relate, both to ourselves and to our loved ones?

In this episode, discover how to break free from the unconscious habits that sabotage intimacy, shift out of victim mindsets, and reclaim your personal power within relationships. Learn why conscious love is an ongoing practice—not just a feeling—and explore actionable principles for moving past reactivity into mature, collaborative connection. Through insights on emotional intelligence, responsibility, healing past wounds, and embracing vulnerability, you’ll gain tools to create deeper, more authentic bonds and turn your relationship into a dynamic space for growth.

Christian de la Huerta is a spiritual teacher, personal transformation coach, and award-winning author with over 30 years of experience. He has spoken at TEDx and led transformational retreats around the world. His books include Coming Out Spiritually and Awakening the Soul of Power. His latest book, Conscious Love: Transforming Our Relationship to Relationships, offers practical tools for healing and deeper connection. 

Episode Highlights

06:16 Identifying and overcoming subconscious obstacles to love.

09:41 Approaching relationships as paths for personal growth.

11:18 Choosing a conscious relationship through self-awareness and intention.

13:54 Differentiating emotional intensity from real intimacy and love.

19:04 Balancing self-agency and interdependence in relationships.

20:24 Letting go of the victim mindset and embracing responsibility and power.

23:33 Understanding personal power versus ego power in relationship dynamics.

29:00 Tools for cultivating deep connection.

32:26 Assessing relationship health through growth and transformation.

34:36 Integrating somatic practices and breathwork for healing.

38:06 Expanding relationship consciousness and integrating transformative experiences.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

• Take Responsibility: Own your choices and responses in relationships rather than blaming others or past experiences.
• Practice Self-Awareness: Regularly pause to check in with your feelings and triggers, asking yourself what’s really going on beneath the surface.
• Move Beyond the Honeymoon Phase: Recognize that love is not just a feeling—commit to the act of loving even when the initial intensity fades.
• Stop Searching for “The One”: Shift your mindset from finding someone to fulfill you to consciously practicing love principles in your relationships.
• Heal Old Wounds: Reflect on parental or past relationships to notice patterns you might be unconsciously repeating and seek ways to address them.
• Use Conflict as Growth: When triggered, resist the urge to react immediately; instead, get curious about the underlying source and use the moment for personal evolution.
• Communicate Your Needs: Express your preferences and boundaries clearly while also listening and compromising for mutual benefit.
• Integrate Mindfulness Practices: Develop habits like meditation or breath work to build present-moment awareness and emotional regulation in your daily life and relationships.

Mentioned

Conscious Love: Transforming Our Relationship to Relationships (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Committed: A Love Story (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

The power of breath: Christian de la Huerta at TEDxCoMo (YouTube link) (video)

Ken Wilber (website)

A Course in Miracles (*Amazon link) (book)

12 Relationship Principles to Strengthen Your Love (free guide)

Connect with Christian de la Huerta

Websites:soulfulpower.com

Facebook:facebook.com/christian.delahuerta.1

Instagram:instagram.com/christiandlh

LinkedIn:linkedin.com/in/christiandelahuerta

YouTube:youtube.com/channel/UC4hOzeGdhkTcRxOHkV9tfbQ

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

If you have a topic you would like to be discussed, please contact us by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here. 

Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship. 

Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here. 

Thank you!  

*With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon if you purchase the book from this link.

Episode Transcript

Christian, it's lovely to have you on the show. Thank you for joining us. 

Hey, Jessica, I'm so happy to be on the show with you. Thanks for having me. 

Yeah. And a topic that I very much love. And look, talking about conscious intimacy, conscious love. And one of the things you talk about is how many people confuse love and feel a bit of misunderstanding around what love is. And this is part of what prompted you to write the book Conscious Love, is that right? 

Yeah, that's completely aw on target. I've been doing personal transformation work, coaching retreats, and workshops for probably approaching 35 years now. And hands down, what I find is that people who struggle with, and you know, people who are successful in life have great jobs, executives, et cetera, are successful in other areas of life. What they mostly struggle with is relationships. And so I thought that would be a service for people, including myself, because why is it that we struggle with relationships, is that we haven't been taught, you know, how to hold them. We're just basically just thrown into the deep end of the pool. Part of what I did in that book is talk about transforming a relationship into relationships so that we approach them in a different way. Approach them more intentionally, consciously. 

Part of what I did in that book is identify 10 areas where we tend to get snagged in relationships. And the one you're pointing to is one of them. Right. We get confused about what love is, and we confuse that feeling of love, especially in that honeymoon phase when we're in love, and the other person can do no wrong. We confuse that with the actual act of loving. Because, as many of us know, 

Yeah. 

And so, yeah, once we begin to approach relationships like that and not expecting them to fulfill us, to make us happy, then they actually have a chance of working. 

Thank you. And I know this is very much informed by our experiences in life and family upbringing, and also culturally. That, especially here, where I'm recording, here in the U.S., there's this notion around. So much of the emphasis is on finding a partner that's a good match or finding the one. And really, what you're reminding people. And I think we know this on an essence, but I think there are some ways in which we romanticize or get caught in some hope that finding the right person will make it easy. And you're saying there's a developmental stage of the honeymoon, the first stage of a relationship that is primed by all the “neurochemicals”. And usually, we're going to have a fantasy and fill in the blank. And once that settles, we start to recognize the differences. 

“And if we're still approaching relationships in the sense of trying to find the wine versus being in practice of love principles,” we're going to confront a lot of difficulty because we're looking to the other to source. Yeah, okay, exactly. 

And there isn't anybody out there who's going to make us happy. And it's not their job to. “If we're approaching the relationship with that hope, with that expectation, you are going to make me happy, like, yikes, that's a lot of weight, a lot of responsibility to put on somebody else and to put on the relationship.” So if that's how we're approaching it, you know, like, no wonder, like, it doesn't surprise me that more than 50% of marriages end up in divorce. What surprises me is that 90% don't, because again, we haven't been taught how to approach them. “And we haven't been taught about what love is. We haven't been taught about our emotions. We've been conditioned to suppress our emotions, especially men. 

Yes. 

And so the odds are actually against the relationship working. And to the point that you were making so beautifully, there's a quote from the Course in Miracles that says that, 

So how are we blocking love? How are we keeping love at bay? How are we sabotaging our relationships sometimes before they get going? By attracting people who are not available, people who are not a match. They live on the other side of the country or the world, or they're just not there, or they're with somebody else. So subconsciously, we're sabotaging them before we even get started with them. 

So that's what like in my relationships, work, and retreats, whether it's coaching or group work, that's where we focus on, like, what are those subconscious obstacles to love that have us sometimes doing this? I come here. Not too close, but don't get too close. And that's when relationships actually have a chance to work. 

Yes. Which you're really helping people reframe. That relationship has the opportunity or the capacity to help us evolve, develop, or awaken. And also, if we're unconsciously or subconsciously choosing partners because it feels familiar, we're projecting. We have old wounds. And do you want to talk a little bit more about the difference between unconscious and conscious relationships? 

Sure. Okay, sure. I mean, and you give examples of that, right? Where we're trying to fulfill something that we perceive as missing or lacking in us through the relationship. Right. So that we're hoping the relationship is going to heal us, or complete us, or make us happy. And again, it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. There's a friend of mine who's also an author who writes about. Forget the title of the book right now, but he says that 

Oh my gosh. 

I know, I know. 

Yes. 

But how true is that? I mean, how many? If we start paying attention to the details and the behaviors, we recreate our relationship with either our parents or people. 

In our past, or perpetuate the pattern nonetheless. 

Exactly right. Sometimes it feels like it's the same old boring relationship. The same old boring movie, only with a different co-lead, same arguments, same crap coming up at some point. It would really be helpful to figure out that there's one common denominator, every one of those arguments in every one of those relationships, and it's right here. So why do we get stuck in these patterns of behaviors and relationship patterns that aren't good for us? 

Yes. And would you say a little more about a conscious relationship? 

Yeah. So to me, a conscious relationship is when we approach it, and this is paraphrasing Ram Dass, the spiritual teacher. He says that 

Unconsciously means that we're approaching it like you and I were talking about earlier, because we're hoping that it's going to make us happy. And that's not going to happen. Right. So those are not going to work. If we approach them consciously, meaning that we know, we take responsibility for, we own that it's our job to make ourselves happy.

Then there are “three levels in which you can do those conscious relationships.”

Level One, the other partner doesn't want to play at that level, but there's enough about it that it works. You know, maybe you co-parent well together, you travel great together, you have fun, interesting conversations. Sex is great. There's enough of it that works, that we say, okay, well, there's enough of it that's good. It works for me, even though it's not the end-all be-all, which no relationship is ever going to fuel every single one of our needs. And so we said, all right, then I'm going to reclaim all the time and energy and resources that I would otherwise be spending looking for the One, and I'm going to focus that on my own growth and transformation, which I think is ultimately what we're here for, like our personal evolution, fulfilling our unique human potential.

Number Two is the juicy one that's for its relationship as a laboratory for growth. And I always tell my, you know, the people that I coach or my retreat participants, if you want to shine a light on those blind spots that are back here in the back of our heads that we're never going to see in ourselves, because that's the definition of a blind spot. Get in relationship.

Because we're so good about finding each other's buttons and pressing them. So to do a relationship consciously means that both partners are in agreement that we're using that container, that form of the relationship, to speed up our own process of growth, transformation, and evolution. So when they say something painful or hurtful and we feel that ouch, rather than instinctively or reactively, you know, finding one of their buttons and pressing it, we feel the out, and we take a breath, and we go, oof. All right, that one hurt. What's really going on? Right. 

And we search under the surface because that initial hurt is only covering up for something that has been unhealed in our past. So that's why a relationship can be a really great way to speed up our growth, because we can't press our own buttons. But if we do that, feel the ouch and then begin to do the work of, okay, what is that? What's really going on? What's underneath the anger? Anger is a superficial defense mechanism. What's underneath it? What am I really feeling? What are the patterns? When have I felt this way before? Oh, I see the pattern. I did it in that relationship and the one before. What's the source of it? How far back can I trace it? What else in my life causes this kind of feeling? Then it's like, amazing. 

Like, no relationship can go bad because as long as we're growing, then it's a successful relationship. 

Yes. Thank you for laying that out, and I appreciate you just highlighting what it looks like in practice, what being able to utilize what gets activated in the dynamic for an opportunity to get curious, to identify ways in which we maybe haven't known that we've had tenderness or a wound. Like, I haven't been really paying attention to areas of insecurity or otherwise, but that allows us to grow and to have development. And even the paradigm. There's a way in which you're inviting a paradigm shift. When I think of unconscious, it's like, oh, I do what I do, or I do what's the norm, or what other people do. And being conscious, there's a bit of evaluation. 

There's a bit of choosing intentionally and then being in practice to continue to stay awake, so to speak, and be looking at what is happening and how it's happening. And can I have an understanding of that? 

Exactly. And I love the way you framed it and the way you highlighted the word choice. It is about choosing. Choosing how we want to be and what kind of relationships we want to have, rather than doing it the way our parents did and the way their parents did before them and all this stuff that's been conditioned and passed down from culture and society and generation after generation and connected to traditional gender roles and the definition of marriage and all the stuff which hasn't even been examined. Yeah, it's like “most people don't even realize that marriage for romantic reasons wasn't even a thing until like the late 1800s.”

“Yes. I don't know if you caught this years ago, but Elizabeth Gilbert wrote a book about marriage, and I thought it was going to be like her novels. And it was actually very much multidisciplinary and multicultural, look at why people get married.” And it is interesting for interested people, coming back to conscious relationship and conscious love. My experience is that this isn't just a binary thing. As we're talking about being choosing or being awake or examining, we will fluctuate and have blind spots, and then it's just a further opportunity. I mean, look, I don't know if you would agree, but I think the brain tends to automate and to conserve energy. So that does give a pull towards taking things for granted or just conserving energy and not having a beginner's mind. 

So how do you help people recognize ways in which they might be falling asleep or being a little bit. Or is it just the triggers that you're talking about that help people recognize, oh, here's an opportunity? 

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a beautiful question. I think it's both. 

Yeah. 

Like, definitely the triggers, like rather than just doing that, automatic triggers, like take a pause, ask the hard questions, why am I feeling this? How did I get into this situation yet again? Because I promise you, we've been there before, and so the details might be different, but it's the same crap, the same underlying cause, the same drivers of behavior. Whether it's self-doubt or whatever. It is just what we learn from our parents. Conditioning. 

Yes. 

And it would be a great practice to go through the day consciously. 

Yeah. 

Which I think, you know, is one of the gifts of having some kind of meditation practice or mindfulness practice, even if it's five, ten minutes, three times a week, that begins to develop that ability to look at ourselves, which is what we need, right? To observe ourselves rather than get stuck in the drama of our lives. 

Yes. Speaking of drama, and you mentioned this earlier, many people equate love with intensity or chemistry. And how do you help people recognize the difference between that emotional intensity and real intimacy in the way you're described? 

Yeah, beautiful question. And it's easy to confuse them. And I'm not putting that phase of being in love down. It's one of the best parts of the human experience. But in some ways, I think that it's a biological trick of nature to ensure the survival of the species. Because in that honeymoon phase, whether it's three months or six months or nine, if you haven't moved in together yet. That person, like the veils of ego, identity, of separate identity. This is Christian. That's Jessica. They fall during the first honeymoon phase. We see everything through rose colored glasses, and we feel at one with. And then those ego separations, the veils dissolve, and then we come back into separation, and then they can do nothing. Right. And that's when we go off looking for love. Like, where did the love go? And misunderstanding. 

That is not love. That initial phase, as great as it feels, is not love. And that's one of the ways Scott Speck really serves us. He defines love in this way. 

And so it helps us understand why we can't always go by the feeling to define love. Because it's. Think about disciplining a child. Saying no to a child is not fun. It doesn't feel good. But it's an act of love. It's for their own good that we're keeping them from running into a busy street or from not eating an entire thing of ice cream. So if we're not gonna go with a feeling, how do we define love? Because. 

And we know that every relationship is gonna have ups and it's gonna have downs. So if we can't go by the ups and downs, what is love then? And that's what he defines as the act of loving. 

That's beautiful. Thank you. And for people who are listening, might you be able to share an example of what that could look like in practice? 

Yeah. I mean, today you want to go for sushi, and I don't really feel like having sushi. I want to go Chinese. But because, you know, we love each other, it's like, all right, let's work this out. Let's do sushi today. Next week we'll do Chinese. Right. So we go beyond our own selfish preferences and desires for the sake of the other person. With the caveat, right, that we're assuming that we're not talking about becoming doormats. Because you can also go to the other extreme. Exactly. When we put ourselves down, and it's all about pleasing the other person. And that's not healthy. That's not a healthy relationship. It's gotta be including ourselves in this generosity of loving other people. 

Yes, agreed. Because over time, if we're not participating, the relationship likely won't be a reflection of both people. If we're talking about a monogamous relationship, it's going to really reflect one person's preferences, and that's difficult. And I'm a big fan of the interdependence that we want to rely on each other. We want to be able to help, support, and be of service. And also this self-agency. I know you talk about this, the gift of responsibility, when people feel victimized by circumstances, that we do have a lot of power to make choices and be in service of our needs as well. And this collaboration that you're saying could be. We have a way that we. It can be a win for both of us. And how do we accomplish that? 

Yeah, exactly. Jugular there. Talking about not allowing ourselves to be stuck in that victim consciousness, in that victim mindset. Poor me. Woe is me. And that's a radical truth. Like, I think, you know, I mean, I know that 30, almost 35 years of doing this work, that is what people struggle with the most. Right. Because. But the thing is, 

And of course, human beings do horrible things to each other. It's not denying that, especially since horrible things happen to kids that they had nothing to do with. That's not what I'm talking about. But the thing is that if we want to step into our power and free ourselves, we got to tear up that victim card. 

Because the truth is that no matter what happened in the past and no matter what happens going forward, we always have a choice about how we show up in response. And from that simple way of looking at it, that pops us out of victim mode. And there's a lot of payoff for staying on victim consciousness. You know, blaming mom for doing this or dad for not being there. But if we're gonna be holding somebody or something responsible for our state of being, we just gave our power away. 

Yes. Thank you. And relationally, can you give people again an example of a scenario where one might be complaining or criticizing about the dynamic or the circumstances, feeling a bit of a victim? Maybe they wouldn't think that, but there's some sense of, I don't have the power here. I don't have control over this. It's happening to me. And how people can find a footing in where they do have power, because, I mean, part of this could be a blind spot of like, oh, I didn't even recognize that I have more power or some agency here. 

Yeah. And so that's the theme of my earlier book, “Awakening the Soul of Power.” Like, how do we step into power, personal power, in a way that's not about hierarchy, control, fear, force, domination, manipulation? How do we do it in a different way that doesn't require that we push anybody down, press our knee to their neck in order for us to feel powerful? So, power with rather than power over. 

Yes. 

And the thing is that most of us have an ambivalent relationship to power. Part of us wants it, part of us is afraid of it. And no wonder. How many times in our lives have we witnessed abuses of power both in our personal lives and in the world? 

Right. 

And then on top of that, we've been conditioned to believe that power is a bad thing. With quotes like “power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” But what they didn't tell us was that Lord Acton, who spoke those words, was speaking specifically about political power, not the personal power that you and I are talking about. 

And it's not a power over to your point. 

Exactly. I can be in my power and honor you. And your power, like your power, doesn't take away from mine. Yes, but we misunderstood that. So we've been led to believe that power is zero-sum. So that if you're in your power, that's going to take away from mine. It's like, wait a minute. No, who said that? I know who I am. I know that no matter what happens in my life, I'll know how to show up. And I think most of us do know that. Because of all that conditioning and because we've been conditioned to be afraid of the emotions, we end up saying yes when inside it's not okay. Inside, it's a no. How many times have we done that? 

How many times have we overridden our true desires, our preferences, our goals, our dreams, to maintain pseudo peace in a relationship, to not rock the boat too much? How many times have we settled for crumbs of pseudo-love? And so part of what I did in that book is begin to look at, like, different kinds of power. And, you know, comparing or contrasting worldly power or ego power with spiritual power, internal power, that is humble, like, whereas one, the worldly power is arrogant and it has to puff itself up and seem really big to scare people away and make sure that nobody threatens it. 

Like, no matter what happens, I know that I'm going to be fine. And I know that I'll be able to rise to the occasion no matter what. And that's something that nobody can give to us, and nobody can take it away. We're the only ones who give away that intrinsic power. And to me, that's the tragic part. So that's the important part, to realize the difference between those two. 

Absolutely. There's a maturing that can happen in this process. Okay. So, when you might have had a client or somebody you're working with that has a complaint or a concern, and you're recognizing they're feeling very disempowered, do you have an example of how you've helped them recognize their power and how that perhaps might have changed their experience back to. 

What were we talking about earlier about owning responsibility and choice? 

Yeah. 

I mean, because I know that relationships and situations can be incredibly complex and complicated. But the bottom line, 

We always have choices. 

Yeah. 

And it's tough. Sometimes it is easier to feel trapped and victimized and disempowered because it keeps us in that safe comfort zone. Even if that comfort zone is at best comfortable, at worst miserable. And that's part of what the function of the ego mind, that part of us that we all have, part of its job is to maintain the status quo, even if that status quo is at best comfortable and at worst miserable. So that's. When I do all my retreats, I always teach that understanding how the mind works. 

Do you wanna say a little bit more about that for people listening? 

Yeah. And I mean, there's a lot of maybe confusion or simplification about that word ego. You know, for those of us who know, we think arrogance, inflated sense of self, that person has too much ego, kind of thing. And it is that, but it is so much more than that. And maybe if we took Psych 101, we might think of Freud's model of personality, the id, the ego, the superego. And that's not what we're talking about here. The word ego means I in Latin. So it's. It's that sense of self, that sense of separate personality that makes us different. You can say that in some way it is ultimately an illusion because we're all interconnected in ways that we don't even understand. And it's a helpful illusion. And it's also the source of all our suffering. 

Ken Wilber, who lives in Boulder, where I know you used to live, talks about how humanity hasn't always had that sense of Self, sense of separate personality. Ken Wilber talks about this, too, how humanity, because at some point, we didn't have a sense of self. He says we're like one with creation, like the rest of the species on this planet. And when that sense of ego evolved, that sense of self evolved a separate identity. It's when around the planet that was mythologized as the expulsion from the garden was mythologized because we were no longer connected. So it's both an incredible leap in evolution to have a sense of self. And that's why it's also the source of all our suffering. Because now we can have, you know, we can feel lonely, we can have abandonment, we can have a sense of our own mortality. 

We feel separate, we feel alone. So helpful illusion and the source of all our suffering. 

And so you were saying how the brain works, how the mind works, and you're speaking about the ego here. And it occurs to me as we talk about relationship as a path of transformation, there's an interesting connection between being able to be responsible for self and that separateness, but also not latching on to relationship or partner for this false sense of security, togetherness, or belonging. And yet when we are really present and practicing some more of these, I would love to start pivoting towards maybe some of the practices. But when we're really present and in this more aware state, even if it challenges our comfort zone, there is a sense of connectivity that comes from that. 

I totally agree. Like before, I knew, practices like meditation or breath work, you know, practices to help quiet the mind, to help have an experience of ourselves beyond this limited little carbon-based spaceship right here. The only time my mind would quiet was making love because it was becoming one with somebody else in those incredible moments. But it's just a taste of it, right? That's why I think it can be addictive for so many people. Because we're really longing not only for the pleasure of it, but for that sense of quietness inside of our minds, that sense of just becoming completely one with another human being. And that's great. I mean, that's wonderful. 

And it also really helps to learn other practices, other techniques to get to those states of being on your own, like learning how to quiet your mind, learning to break free from the prison of the mind. And that's another huge conversation that we could spend a lot of time talking about. 

Yes. So when we're confronted with a challenge, and we're willing to take risks to go beyond our comfort zones in the service of more conscious love, we don't always know what's gonna happen in that interaction or in the dynamic. And if we can bring more presence, we potentially have an opportunity to, as you said earlier, be in service of our partner's growth or their spiritual growth. And also, we're able to hold ourselves in time and space as well. 

Yeah, beautifully said. 

And the right dynamic, and it's challenging our notions or expectations or our hopes even, and that we get to suspend that a bit and look at the possibility. Because even as you mentioned, sexual intimacy, some people, as you said, seek it for pleasure or to feel more connected. And there are lots of reasons why people enter into that space. And one thing you commented on in your book is the capacity to bring more breath and more sacredness to the honoring. And there's a bit of unknown and mystery around what two individuals are going to come with in that given time and space. But breath and meeting it with certain qualities, with the respect and acceptance of our differences, like, it's an interesting play around the differentiation. 

The separateness and the honor can also create a very beautiful space of being with one another that is very connected. I don't know if I'm saying that right, but tell me what you're thinking. 

Yeah, I think you're saying it beautifully. And yeah, that's, to me, what a level two relationship is. It's like, right? Like I'm over here doing my work, like all my personal work, whether it's coaching, therapy, retreats, breath work, whatever. Like, my commitment is to grow as much as I can and to fulfill that unique human potential. Then the other partner is there on the other side, and they're doing their own work, like they're healing, evolving, learning. And so when we both agree to use the container, the form of the relationship, as a way to support that process, both in ourselves individually and together, that's when relationships are magic. And they can't go wrong. Whether it lasts six months or a lifetime, if that's how we're approaching the relationship. 

it's not a thing. And there's no rule as it has to be for the rest of our lives together. You know, somebody made that up along the way. And so my measurement then is like, how do you know? Like, how do you know when to stay? Because you can't always go by the ups and the downs, right? Because every relationship is going to have ups and downs, and it's in the downs where we tend to bail. And I'm certainly not saying to stay in a relationship that's sucking the life force out of you, or much less, you know, or worse, just because we're going through a down may not be necessarily a signal that it's time to leave. 

And so if we're not going to go by that, how do we know? For me, it's what I ask myself is, is growth happening in both partners? Is growth happening? And as long as growth is happening, I'm willing to navigate the challenging phases. If it's stagnant and we're just rehashing the same old boring arguments, and the projection is happening unconsciously, and we're making each other wrong and arguing about superficial stuff, then it might be time to. 

Bail or give a little room, for I'd like to work and grow. Can we start to approach things differently, and then do we get it? Do we have a different experience together? And if not, then that's definitely a problem with hope. 

Go get some help. 

Yes. 

It's hard to do this work on our own when we're in a relationship because we lose that sense of perspective. We're in it. It's nice to have a credible mirror that can see, you know, that has a little distance so that they can see the forest and the trees. 

Yes. Because life's moving so fast and these things get triggered or activated so quickly, and oftentimes people don't slow down enough, and they're like ping ponging, and it's multiple layers of activation, and it's hard to discern what is what. So. So for people listening, would you like to give any description of what more conscious loving practices what that entails, what that looks like? I know we've mentioned some of it, but would you like to say more? 

Yeah. Owning that we always have a choice and that it's our responsibility and that nobody can make us do anything that we don't wanna do and that no matter what happened, 

And which is, by the way, one of the reasons I facilitate breathwork experiences and weave it into my coaching and my retreats is because I've yet to come across anything that heals past trauma as quickly and as effectively. With all due respect to psychotherapy, my dad was a psychiatrist. My degree is in psychology. I come out of that tradition with all due respect. Part of the reason that it sometimes falls short or often falls short is that we're talking about things up here at the head level when the trauma has been somatized and lives on the body. 

So that's what I love about the practice, like breath work that bypasses the mind, goes to the source of the trauma in the body, and clears that stuff. 

I do know that there's just the kind of mention of the somatic therapies that are accessing and looking at the felt experience in terms of trauma and attachment injuries. And so I know the field has come a long way as far as how to work with trauma. And I do also very much endorse. I mean, you have a beautiful TED Talk.I'll make sure to put that link on today's show. Notes on how so many of us have learned to hold our breath in times of tension or in the effort to suppress emotion. And that breath is such a direct access to our physiological and emotional experience that it can be such a catalyst for us to start to work with. I mean, talk about indicators or what allows us to start using what's emerging for opportunity. 

And we have a lot of material when we can start breathing and noticing. 

Yeah, exactly. And breathwork is another huge conversation. Right. It's a big umbrella term to go back to the ego conversation. If you put a baseball in the center of the stadium, that's the ego. Who we are is actually the stadium. We've allowed this tiny, tiny part of us to think that it is all of us and make really important, consequential choices from its very small, limited, and always fear-based perspective. So part of the benefits of birth work is that people often have a glimpse of their stadium nature, the altered state of consciousness. I can't tell you how often people will say, I got through the same place using breath work that I did on a sacred plant medicine journey like ayahuasca or psilocybin or whatever it is that people do. 

Yeah. 

So it can. It pops us out of that limited baseball mentality or consciousness and gives us a taste of a very expanded nature. 

Yes. And you mentioned Ken Wilber. One of the things I appreciate about his integral theory and the developmental, like the different stages of development that he lays out, and also just acknowledging when we have an ecstatic or peak experience that can be very transformative and expansive. And also as we live into it, how we integrate it, how we practice it. And as we're talking about relationships, the opportunity to bring that into relationships and interactions. Do you want to tie that in? 

Yeah, exactly. Well, and tied in also to what we're talking about before, because, you know, I hear from people that are experimenting with psychedelics, and it's not always managed responsibly, like they say, you know, it's all about set and setting who you do it with, in what situation, what's the intention, what is the environment like? Make sure that the person feels safe and is taken care of. And with what intention? It's not just to have a great time, but to learn more about ourselves, to look at some of those, learn about some of those blind spots, to feel what it's like to be outside of that little prison of the baseball. Really important is to have integration afterwards. 

People come to me for coaching, for breathwork, who did some kind of, you know, expanded practice like that, and there was no re-entry conversation. So they have a hard time coming back into their jobs and their lives, and it takes work. So it's not something to be done lightly. That's the intent, the meaning of the word intention. To do it with intention. Like, why are you doing it, not so much recreationally? It's, it's an intense, intense thing. And people sometimes have a hard time integrating afterwards. And so that's where I find that understanding what the ego mind is like, really getting it's so helpful because they've had this huge expansion, and then they come back into that, you know, limited mind, and they don't know what to do with it. They don't know what or where those experiences are. 

But if you have the understanding of the flow of life, which is expansion, contraction, expansion, contraction, then it's easier to navigate and to integrate. 

Yes, and there's a, the expansion that you're referring to, and how that fits in everyday life, the integration, and how somebody evolves in this process. So I went to a school where there were a lot of people studying. It was more of a transpersonal psychology in the Bay Area. And I was looking at it from more of a transpersonal and holistic perspective. But people were looking at these more static states. And I remember having a professor, I think he was talking about plant-based psilocybin or various forms of a journey. And he was saying oftentimes it's like the analogy of taking a helicopter to the top of the mountain. And so you're shown the top of the mountain, but then you also want to know how to climb the mountain, or like that, you're going to be able to access that. 

And I do think, as you're talking about the baseball field analogy and the ego, that when we have an experience of that expansion, I think we can start to tolerate more of the unknown. It's not, I mean, it's still perhaps scary and will challenge the ego. But also, we have more room. And I think that room is a practice of conscious love. And a conscious relationship is being able to be present and not cling or grasp or control, but just to stay a little bit more. 

Exactly. 

Open. Okay. 

And that's the beauty of understanding the ego. Because the part of us that is so defensive, that takes everything personally, 

That's not our true essence. That's just the little ego trying to survive. And so when we understand the ego, then we can say, okay, I get that urge, but I have a choice in this. I don't have to do that. 

Yes. And I'm sure you would agree. I know we're winding down. My experience of this is that when I'm able to have some capacity to open and not cling and just be entering into that field of unknown, it's often way better than I could have ever controlled or even prescribed. 

Like, if we look at life, there's nothing really controllable about it, right? Life is all unpredictable. It's volcanoes and supernovas and, you know, a universe so vast that we cannot even begin to grasp. I think that's part of our egos try to control that little micro world around us because everything else seems overwhelming and out of control and too huge. But that's part of the human experience. So to realize that we're all of that and we're also this tiny one of 8 billion little ants on this little pebble hurtling through space at 17,000 miles per hour while revolving upon itself, just a speck of sand in the universe. 

Yes. Well, Christian, I know in your book you offer a lot of structure for people to have some principles to work with that give assistance. And you've also talked about developing more emotional intelligence and maturity, how to process emotion. I know you talk about that in your book as well. Tell us the name of your book and where people can find it. 

Thank you. Thanks so much. The book is calledConscious Love: Transforming Our Relationship to Relationships. And the previous book that we mentioned is called Awakening the Soul of Power. They're both on Amazon, and they're also. If they want to email me with any questions, my website is soulfulpower.com. 

I'll make sure to have the links to both of your books and your website, and it sounds like you have workshops and coaching and things that you lead. 

So I love the retreats and highly recommend them. And the benefit of this year-long coaching program is that stretch out the teachings over the course of the year so that they're learning, they're embodying the teachings, and putting them into practice in real time in their real lives, and that makes it more sustainable, I've discovered. 

Excellent. Well, make sure to put the link to your website and your books on Today's Show. Thank you so much for joining us and all that you've offered here.