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Resentment is the silent killer of connection—creeping in beneath the surface, quietly eroding the intimacy and trust between partners. Too often, the frustration we feel in our relationships stems not just from our partner’s actions, but from deeper unmet needs and patterns we haven’t paused to examine. When left unaddressed, this silent disconnect can blossom into the so-called “roommate syndrome,” where couples drift apart, stuck in cycles of survival mode, logistical interactions, and emotional isolation.

In this episode, listeners are invited to explore how resentment actually reveals more about personal boundaries, self-care, and unmet needs than we may realize. Through practical examples and honest conversation, you’ll learn how to transform defensiveness, blame, and silent frustration into curiosity, accountability, and genuine reconnection. Discover why emotional distance develops over time, how to identify its earliest signs, and actionable steps—from gratitude practices to clearer communication—that can help rekindle connection and reset relationship dynamics, even in the midst of midlife transitions and complex challenges.

Katie Rössler is a relationship strategist, licensed therapist, and creator of the REBUILD method, a transformational relationship alignment program for high-achieving, international couples. She’s the author of two books, host of the Relationship Reset podcast, and has spoken on stages around the world. With over 15 years of experience, Katie guides couples from silent resentment to deep reconnection and supports women in perimenopause as they evolve into the powerful, grounded leaders they’re becoming.

Episode Highlights

04:41 The impact of differences and cultural dynamics on relationship resentment.

07:40 How unmet needs and self-reflection fuel resentment.

13:00 Moving from victimhood to agency in relationship roles.

15:45 The importance of receiving gratitude and connection.

19:56 Overcoming barriers to receiving affection and connection.

23:01 Breaking the roommate cycle: Practical steps to reignite emotional and erotic connection.

40:02 Learning new relationship skills: Navigating change and discomfort.

42:39 Midlife transitions: How hormonal and developmental shifts affect relationships.

44:27 Moving through midlife challenges together: Ownership, education, and growth.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

• Get curious about resentment—ask yourself what’s underneath your feelings and why they’re showing up.
• Practice expressing gratitude and intentionally receiving it from your partner, rather than deflecting or minimizing the gesture.
• Separate “project mode” from “connection mode” by scheduling regular couple’s check-ins focused on emotional connection, not logistics.
• Communicate your needs and boundaries clearly, even if it feels uncomfortable, to foster mutual respect and support.
• Invite your partner into your interests and joys—share what excites you and make space for curiosity about each other’s experiences.
• Normalize messy or vulnerable moments by slowing down, breathing, and allowing space for emotion, rather than rushing to fix things.
• During challenging life phases (like midlife or perimenopause), educate and support each other by learning together and having open dialogue.
• Establish annual visioning sessions as a couple to create shared goals that prioritize your relationship alongside everyday tasks.

Mentioned

Relationship Reset Podcast

Couple’s Visioning Workbook

Shifting Criticism For Connected Communication (free guide)

Connect with Katie Rössler

Website: katierossler.com

Instagram: instagram.com/katie.rossler

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/katierossler

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Episode Transcript

Katie, thank you so much for joining us. 

Thank you, Jessica, for having me. 

Yes, I know that we've had a little bit of time to get to know each other. I was on your podcast, and I can put a link to your podcast. I know you're a licensed therapist, and you also have programs, and you also do speaking engagements. And today, we're going to be focusing on resentment and also how this can look like an arc of a relationship, and some of the things that people might be encountering. But before we get started, where would you like to begin? Around when did you start to really focus on supporting people in this area? And you talk about silent resentment building into connection. 

Yeah. So, I live in Munich, Germany. I'm from the United States. And when I moved here, I thought I wouldn't be able to work here based on my license, but I was able to work in the world of couples work. So I call myself a relationship strategist because most of the couples who come to me are high-achieving, bicultural, and they're trying to navigate the shifts that they've gone through in life. Whether it be the move, the international move, infertility challenges, or just raising kids, or having aging parents. Some aging parents are in different countries. All of these pieces that they're now having to juggle, realizing they didn't really have the foundation in their relationship to be prepared for that change and that shift. 

So it naturally came to me that these challenges and the resentment and just the things that come naturally because of midlife that we start to face, just started showing up in my world. And funny enough, of course, my husband and I are in our early 40s. We're a bicultural couple. We're high achievers, and we're both business owners. So it was like, of course, that's who I'm going to attract. Because, naturally, that's what I feel the most comfortable talking about, teaching communication skills, we might feel successful at communication at work. Definitely doesn't translate to home. And just that discouragement we can feel, like, I'm so successful at every other area of my life, but this. What do we do about that? So that's how that came about; they started some sort of coming to me as I'm sort of speaking up more honestly about my own experiences. 

Yes. Thank you for sharing that. And one of the ways that I'm hearing you describe this and what I know to be true about any relationship is that we have differences, and how we negotiate those differences really can help us feel more bonded, that we can ally and collaborate on some of these lasting differences. And when we look at some of the things that you're naming are quite extraordinary in the sense of how many differences can be involved in straddling two different cultures or various ways of meaning making that are very cultural. And then, just various things that we're going to get into today. Do you find that to be true, that some of these differences can pose challenges? And when we're not, as you're saying, having the foundation of how to work through that, then resentment can build. 

Yeah, definitely. And I think there's also kind of a beautiful smokescreen about marrying someone from a different culture. Right. An accent, especially. It's just this, like, ooh! But as soon as that, like, this is just our normal kind of wears off, then some of those major differences come to the forefront. Because it's one thing if you're from the same country, and heck, you can be from the same country and feel like you're in different cultures depending on where you live. But there's this sense of, at least, speaking the same language. We identify with and understand the norms, but the longer we're together with somebody in a bicultural relationship, some of their norms and values start to show up that didn't show up in the beginning, or if you move to their home country or vice versa. Right.

Then there's a shift in the dynamic and in the personality that we would have seen beforehand. We heard the accent, and maybe the skin color, whatever it might be, that's like, oh, this person feels so different from what I'm used to. And now I'm seeing there are some big differences between us. And especially if you move to a country in which maybe there's racism or cultural bias, and your partner's suffering through that and struggling through that, but you don't really understand it because you don't really see it or you don't actually believe that's what they're going through. Right. That clash can happen often, too. 

Absolutely. Thank you for naming some of this. Initially, we might notice it in those early stages of a relationship. The allure and how we might project on all the amazing things, which are also true. But when we get into living and establishing, some of the differences can feel like they have a different quality to them. It has a bit more of a rub. And this does, in my opinion, ask us to grow. This is where we have the opportunity to learn how to work together using these communication skills. And if we don't, if we're withdrawing or avoiding or we're blaming, is this part of the components of resentment? Or how do you see resentment starting to show up when these differences are more visible? 

Yeah, for me, what I notice is 

So it isn't so much, though there is resentment around, like the things they didn't do. It often is; they were able to hold better boundaries than I, and I was constantly taking care of everyone, or they were able to say no to their parents or whatever it might be. Right. And I don't feel like I can do that. When I work with a couple, and there's clear resentment, I often talk to the person about what it is that they feel. And they might be like, well, I don't feel respected in my relationship. And I go, okay, so talk me through how you show yourself respect. 

And they might look at me weirdly at first, like, what do you mean? Like, why are you talking about me? You're the ones not doing it. I'm like, hear me out. And I'll say, do you go to bed at a reasonable time or do you stay up late, like, is it like me time? Is it like staying up till midnight, 1 am binge-watching something? Do you find that you skip meals? Are you really good at making sure, like, you're nourishing your body? Do you say yes to everyone, or are you making sure, like, hey, I gotta say no? I've got to put a boundary. I need to take care of myself. And usually I get a lot of like, no, no. 

And I was like, okay, so I totally understand that you want your partner to show you respect or speak to you with respect, whatever it might be. But often what we're missing from ourselves, we see, just expanded even more, magnified even more by what our partner's doing. See you. You're not doing this. You're not showing me this. And I go, but why are you holding your partner to standards you don't hold yourself to? To you? Yes, of course, they should be respectful. But it's so much easier for me to stand firm and say, “Husband, I deserve respect,” if I'm showing myself that, versus feeling like the victim. You're the villain who can't show me these things. 

So that's a big piece to it, too, the side of permitting themselves to do what they want to do, sit on the couch and not clean the dishes and do the laundry, whatever. But also that it's a reflection of areas where we feel like we're actually lacking towards ourselves. And those two separate areas are where resentment tends to build. And if we can't look in the mirror and say, “Is my partner permitting themselves to speak whatever's on their mind?” And I feel like I have to manage everything I say. Right. Or whatever it might be, or am I pointing out things that they're not doing, and I'm resenting them for stuff that I wasn't doing for myself, or I wasn't speaking up and saying, I need this. 

I see this often with fertility challenges for couples 10 years later, right? Fifteen years later, 20 years later, you weren't there for me. All of these different things that will come up because of this resentment that's still there. These things were happening to me. You weren't there. And that's such a challenging space to sit in. Because it's valid. How they feel is valid. That resentment is truly there. They felt alone. However, I've worked with couples where the partner was fully there. 

I'm here. 

What do you need? And it was almost like, leave me alone, back away. There was still resentment. Because it's a very isolating experience. Infertility. And we could replace many different topics with infertility. But there are things where the resentment is there because there really is. No, there's nothing that could have changed. There's nothing that could have been better. It's an isolating experience. We were upset and hurt. We were grieving. Our partner was grieving in their own way. Because again, opposites attract. They're going to grieve in a very different way than us. They're going to go through life in a very different way. Maybe they went straight to work. Well, I got to make sure we got the income for the fertility treatments. I had to make sure, whatever it might be. Right. And we resent them. They weren't there anymore. 

And they're thinking, I'm the guardian of our family. I'm going to take care of us. So there's this piece where it's often also us not honoring both sides of the story, and actually even taking the time to ask. But it's the same way. It's not that they're not always asking us to. So it's having a couple sit down and go tell your side of the story, and being able to really listen. 

Yes. And it sounds like you're inviting people to listen more deeply. What's underneath the initial complaint or issue? And that if we look at the experience around that, likely our partners are activating something that is significant for us to look at how we're participating in that. And that can be quite illuminating. I love that. That's super important. I mean, one of the examples that I'm feeling is we're recent homeowners, and it's been a year and a half in. And there's this. A lot of aesthetic projects that are D.I.Y. It's not structural, thank goodness. And we have a downstairs area where we've been fortunate to rent it out. And when we first moved in, we hustled pretty hard to make that what we wanted it to be. Renovated it. So it was super nice. 

And I was very engaged in a lot of the kind of planning and coordinating of the different contractors and the design and all the things. I'm very active. And I do remember feeling a tinge at points of, like, resentment. And I was. I remember lying in bed next to him. I don't actually. Funny enough, Katie, I don't remember if I was actually having a verbal conversation with him or if I was just reflecting. I don't even think that it really matters, in that I was asking myself the question, if he were to do the things that I'm having issues with, what would that allow me to feel? And it was a way to access. He's taking time to relax, and I want to relax. To your point, like, am I getting the rest? Am I getting? And I'm grateful I'm pretty good about my self-care. But there were layers here that I wasn't feeling that I could take the liberty, or I was feeling this overwhelming responsibility. So I really appreciate you inviting people to go deeper. What's. How am I relating to this? How am I participating in this? Because the other thing that I feel is that once we are more conscious of that, we have a little bit more agency. 

Yes, totally. 

As I can now do something about that, versus my partner, is the issue. And I have to get them to do something. 

Yeah, You 

If you and your partner were like business partners in taking care of this home. Right. There would be clear roles. You take care of this because if you were always doing the same things, stepping on each other's toes, it's not an efficient use of time or resources. Right. So it's sometimes projects that we work on in our home or have outside of our home, we often group them in with the relationship dynamic, but they're different. They're very different. And many of us grew up in homes or had generational homes where the woman had her space, and the man had his space. Right. Very traditional. The man was at work, the woman was at home. 

Or she was at work and expected to do everything at home. Because these dynamics that were in more of both of us doing stuff, we are still shedding the layers of what was accepted in our generation. And we don't know how to, like, okay, now that we're both actively working and we both need to take care of a home, how do we even do that? What does that? Now we're like renovating and taking it. Like, how do we go about that? Because it isn't about the relationship, we will group their love for us with whether they remember to take out the trash. Let's not care about me or respect or love me. 

Yes. 

And it's like if this were a business issue, you know, hey, you keep turning in the presentation late. It's a systems issue. It's. It's a personnel issue. It's a sit-down, and let's talk. It isn't about you must not love me or respect me enough to have this in on time. We group it all together, and it's very murky waters when we do that, because everything can really hurt then for sure. 

And this is the lens through which we view. I mean, this is such an important point that you're bringing up, in my opinion, because we're existing together in this domain of domestic life, and it very much has a lot of logistics like a business, and yet we don't necessarily operationalize it or get super explicit about how we're going to devise the labor duties. And that's when we are in the intimate space, we primarily bond for that sense of you are, you're my person, and that sense of secure functioning. And so that layered on, we're going to perceive our partner and their way of showing up through that, our nervous system is just going to register it that way unless we're really explicit. 

So coming back to the explicit, it feels like, though, there's a bit of accountability or ownership that you're inviting people into and a level of engagement. Because the other thing I was feeling when you were talking about some of the examples was that if we're in a place of resentment, as you were describing, we may be blocking our partner or having some barriers to receiving what our partner's actually offering or giving. Do you want to speak to that? Does that feel true? 

Definitely. When I have someone sitting in my office who is very resentful of their partner, and I have them do a 

these individuals are the first to be like, they get received the gratitude, and they're like, it wasn't a big deal, of course, I was going to do that, right? They deflect, or if I say, “What is it you heard your partner say in that gratitude?” They'll start with, “Well, they said they're really appreciative that I'm blah, blah…” and then they get passive-aggressive, and then they, like, turn it back around. They're not able to receive the goodness of connection. It's uncomfortable. Then, because it doesn't fit the script of I resent you have hurt me, whatever it might be, you've permitted yourself that I didn't give myself. 

You are treating me in a way that it's a reflection of what I'm not doing, whatever it might be, but we have been hurt. And so when it comes to our partner going, like, hey, I'm going to come more than halfway to you. We often push them away and keep that dynamic, and then blame them for not trying to. And I always say, how many times do you put your hand in a beehive before you realize it hurts? You get stung. 

Yes. 

So of course your partner's gonna stop at some point, and of course you're gonna still feel abandoned. But the question is, like, who's gotta give first? And that's why it's a task that I always give the couples at the end of a couple session, which is like, share your gratitude and receive it. Because 

And it's essential. Yes. 

And if we're moving fast or blocking it, then we can spend all this energy attempting to solicit or recruit. And yet we don't have the satiating experience. How do you help people receive? 

So one of the things is when they immediately respond that way. Right. Deflect, like, of course I was gonna do that. I say, hold on a second. When you receive a gift, and you open it up, do you just throw it on the ground and stomp on it? And they're like, no, of course not. And I'm like, okay, I want you to imagine that your partner just handed you a gift. What are you gonna do with it? And they're like, oh, you know, they don't. They don't see it that way. And so it's about training their brain to understand what it is that's being given to them. It's like a cool glass of water. If you're thirsty for it, are you gonna just pour it out in front of you? No, you're gonna drink it. So that's the first piece, making it really clear the dynamic they're doing, because half the time, they don't know they're in that habit cycle. Oh, how many times do I do this in general? Is it just with my partner, or am I uncomfortable receiving gratitude from anyone? Oh, it was no big thing, of course. You know, like, thank you. Thank you for being grateful and saying this. I really appreciate you recognizing me. That's receiving a gift, not. I don't. Ooh! I'm uncomfortable with this. I'm in the spotlight, whatever it might be. Right. So, it's a good dynamic, then, to step outside and go, is it just in my partnership, I can't receive this goodness? Or is it in all relationships? And then that's about retraining your nervous system to accept connection without anyone. If it's just in your relationship, it is. 

It's practicing this gratitude. Hear it reflect what you heard and stop and sit with that, and just smile or whatever it means to be, and take those deep breaths. Because it's like, let me allow my brain to receive this without thinking of the next thing it's going to defensively say or what it is. What is my gut response? It's getting out of autopilot and stepping into that. Intentional. Who do I want to be in this relationship? Who do I want to be in my ideal relationship? And how do I step into her or him or them and. And go, I am. And this version of me doesn't deflect from these things. I'm gonna sit with this. As uncomfortable as it is, I'm gonna sit with this, and I'm gonna share my gratitude for my partner. 

So that's the first step, which is like 

and then also kind of doing a bigger scope. Wait, is this normal? Not just with your partner, and, oh, that's a bigger picture topic. That definitely has some childhood stuff there we need to explore, or if it's just your partner, okay, then let's sit with being the version of us we want to be in our ideal relationship. How are they going to show up? Going, okay, how do they receive gratitude? And starting to do that because we don't receive a gift and smash it on the ground. We don't take that glass of water so thirsty and so like and pour it on the ground either. So when you receive a connection, and whether it's a bid for connection or actual gratitude here, you don't push it away. 

That's just training your partner not to do it anymore. 

Yes. And it sounds like really making yourself available, and that there's a slowing down and perhaps even a somatic piece here of breathing and feeling that might feel, as you said, uncomfortable or vulnerable. Because if this is something that we deeply long for, the experience of feeling received like that can be very tender. 

Right. And you may see this as well. You'll hear the complaint: “My partner never touches me anymore.” “My partner and I are, you know, we haven't had sex in months, years.” I've worked with couples for years. And then I go, okay, well, I'm going to start to invite this into the space where they're just going to, like, put their hand on your shoulder or come and kiss you while you're washing the dishes or whatever. And often when that happens, they push it away. They're like, “Stop, what are you doing?” And I'm like, “Oh, hold on.” What is this about? Because you're complaining, but when they give it to you, then you're saying, not this way, not at this time. Like, I'm sorry, but even I, as a therapist, I'm like, I can't. I won't be able to follow all the rules. So it is exactly what you said, being open. And if it's in a space where you're not comfortable going, I'm so like, I love that you're taking this moment to connect with me. Do you mind waiting till the kids are in bed? Or do you mind us? Let me come down. I've had a really stressful day, or I want to take a shower because I've been working out or whatever, and go. And then we can. We can hold hands or play football. “The end of the table at dinner, or like, you can shift it from rejection to, hey, right now, I can tell I'm not going to receive it as well as you would love for me to. This connection. So how?” 

“Or as much as I want to.” 

“Right, Exactly. As much as I've been complaining in our therapy sessions that I want. Yeah. A couple I worked with years ago, I remember saying, you know, she's like, he never touches me.” And I was like, okay, so this week I want you to, like, just grab her hand. No, no, I. I have dry skin on my hands. Okay. This week I want you to, like, if she massages her feet when you're sitting. No, no, I don't like my feet to be touched. Okay, so this week I want you to know, it's like I went through her hair. Oh, I've got grays. I need to dye it. I'm like, okay, where would you like to be touched? And she's like, actually, not really. And I'm like, never mind then. So tell me what it is you do want. 

Because you just said, he doesn't touch me. And then you gave me all the reasons why he shouldn't and can't. And I'm confused, too. And I'm left going, okay, so what is it you actually want? “Because often what we say we want,” 

“We aren't open to.” 

“We're putting all the defensive walls up. And there's a variety of reasons. As we get older, our bodies change. Some things are different. Pleasure feels different. So maybe we're confused too.” 

Yes. 

Yes. Those of us in perimenopause are like, one day I love this, and the next day don't come near me. I can't stand any of you. You all smell, and I can't. You're loud. Right? Like, I can't deal with how you breathe. That's so confusing for our partners, too, for sure. 

And what I'm hearing, yes, I'm hearing you really speak about sending clearer cues so that this can be a connection point. Because, as you said earlier, we were talking about the lens through which we view these interactions around care. Do they love me? Am I enough? And even in this client example, it sounds like just self-criticism. My gray, my dry hands, you know, like it's just naughty. Like so. So to slow that down and really have wonder to make some of these connection points possible, and also to send those clear signals that give. Really setting it up for receptivity feels so important. And the other thing, as I'm hearing you describe this, is just when we do settle in and what we can. Even if it's not the whole thing, we can absorb even if it's just part of it. 

Right. I'm sure you see this, that the emotion starts to bubble. 

Yeah. 

It's quite beautiful to see somebody start to feel and the emotion. And that's that vulnerability, that connection point. That's where we feel most close to our person. 

Yes, definitely. And I think it's surprising to them to feel it. 

Yes. 

And our partner doesn't know what to do because they haven't seen that side in so long. They're like, “Did I do something wrong? I'm sorry.” They immediately want to fix and invite them to sit with the tears, to just hold space for the vulnerability in that moment rather than try to box it back up, is so important and it's so hard for all of us right now. When we see somebody appear, it may be that they're hurting or they're releasing and healing. Some stuff is uncomfortable to sit with, totally. But it's essential to the connection piece. Thank you for not trying to fix me. Thank you for not trying to wipe away my tears and allowing them to just flow. 

This is the piece where we can step up as partners, just to be present for what our partners are going through, even if we don't fully understand it. 

This is so critical. I don't think that, as you talk about serving a lot of high-functioning people, as I also do, this is contrary to the mode of operating. Often, we have ways in which we're achieving and are driven, and responsibilities that are all really beautiful. And at the same time, don't give us as much practice with this slowing down and really being in the unknown and the uncertainty, but to let this real, beautiful connection to self and other emerge. 

Definitely. 

Okay, this is critical. Is there anything else that you want to say, or would you like to just pivot around? I feel like we're going to fluctuate a little bit between what can show up and also how to work with it. Is there anything else you want to say about how to work with resentment, or even just resentment? 

Yeah. I think 

Yes. Just get really curious. Why am I resentful? What's playing out here that I don't like? Again, how is this a mirror to the things that I'm upset about within myself, or not managing within myself? Resentment. Our emotions are indicators for us, and we use them that way. Get curious. And get curious about your partners, too. If they come at you with resentment now, I wouldn't get curious and be like, “Are you looking in the mirror?” That's not what we're talking about. But just being like, what is deeper? What do you feel like is maybe the deeper issue around this? And they might say the word permission. Like, you have permission. And it's like, yeah. 

Would you like to join me on the couch and just sit here? We'll know who's going to do the stuff I said. Well, you could say, like, let's set an alarm for 10 minutes and let's just sit on the couch together for that time, and then I'll come and help you. Right. Like, this invites them into what you've permitted yourself to, so that they feel like, I'm going to be bitter for years about this. But it is about saying it out loud, bringing it out in the open, and asking those curious questions. 

I love that. So important and, like, accessible. And oftentimes we feel lost in that. Right. That's something we're not in the habit of doing. One of the things that you talk about is helping people identify some of the earliest signs of emotional, erotic kind of dissatisfaction as they might be experiencing roommate syndrome. And can you talk a little bit about some of the patterns that contribute to that drifting and how you help people start to work with steps to address that? 

Yeah. So I like to call it the emotional divorce. It's that roommate syndrome, I guess we'll call it. And really, what it's about is there's a phase that we all hit in our relationship where it's more about survival mode. And that's a performance. Like, that's business talk, right? Who needs to get what done and when are we going to do it, and how are we doing it? And if one of you, let's say one of you, is in a state of health issues, grief, loss, whatever it might be, and not functioning as well, and then your partner has to then take on 200% right, or 150% of the workload, they're going to be in their lane getting stuff done, right? Project mode. It's this performance sort of mindset, and we start talking that way. 

And it is essential for a period of time in survival mode. But again, it becomes a habit cycle. This is how we are. This is how we relate. We go on a date night, and we're still just talking about where we're going to go on vacation. Are you going to book the hotel rooms where, you know, like, let's talk about the kids. Let's talk not about the relationship, because we don't remember how to do that anymore. And I always say it's the difference between love talk and get-it-done talk, very, very separate things. So what I often invite couples to do is, like I said before, see those two worlds as separate so that we can better understand what is going on within me that survival mode has stuck around. Am I stuck in survival mode? 

Do I still feel like we're there? Maybe we are, right? And inviting again, that curiosity to sit down and say, are we keeping ourselves in survival mode so we don't have to connect? Are we keeping things really complex so we don't have to connect? I have an episode of my podcast where I talk about, Are you really too busy, or are you making sure you're busy so you don't have to spend time together? We have to look in the mirror on that one, right? We have to sit down and have that discussion about what's going on. As successful high achievers, we love performance mode. It feeds all of the endorphins. Like, yeah, I feel like doing this. Like, we're getting stuff done. 

And I often hear the couples who feel like roommates and have that emotional divorce say, but we're great at getting projects done. 

We're a great team. 

Exactly right. I'm like, good, you're successful in other areas of your life. I can see why. But the language of love is exactly what you said. It's softer, it's quieter, it's connection, it's less doing, more sitting and receiving, it's more relaxed. That doesn't hit any dopamine receptors. Well, I mean, it can later on, but like not when we're just sitting and holding hands. Oxytocin is relaxed trust. It's like the chill-out kind of thing. And this is the piece where, for high achievers, it is uncomfortable. And often we get partnered with the person we choose through high-activity traveling, wine tasting here and there, and doing events and business networking. Exactly, we're like, and we're so like. But that doesn't sustain a relationship. 

No, no. 

You need the downtime. You need it. We all need it. And it's 

“Because love in the beginning, even maybe the first five years, was probably high intensity, and now it's like, oh, the mundane part of life.” How do we sit with that? So, asking couples to start weekly. I call it a couple's check-in, like a weekly come together, and how are you? Same as you do with a friend, but intentionally do it together. Because if it's not about project mode, we don't know what to talk about. Someone's going to say something that's going to offend the other person, and there's going to be a blow-up, and then we're going to go in separate rooms, maybe sleep in separate beds even. 

Because the more that you're in that roommate mode, the more that you're on two different train tracks, which again, in survival mode, who's got what project? That's your lane. Stick in it. Keep it like we'll get stuff done faster and more efficiently this way. But when do we come back together on the same train track? And I'm sure you've seen this too, that's what will happen when we're on those separate train tracks, then even our personal growth. Right. Starts to be separate too. Well, I'm doing the work, and I'm learning this. I'm doing this hobby, and I'm developing this, and it's never coming back together to share it, not to do the same thing. They don't need to, like you picked up sailing, and now they need to do it too. No, but share is communication. It's come and watch me come. 

Here's what I was excited about. Here's what I felt proud of this was new.

And that's just like receiving that touch when you don't like, God, you're talking about it again. Seriously, I have to hear this for the 10th time this week. Yeah, you do, because that's the connection. That's important to your partner, that lights them up. Be there and present because you're gonna want the same thing back. 

Yes. It's not so much the content, it's the look for, how it matters to the person. 

Yes. So this emotional divide that can happen, this sort of emotional divorce, that it feels like you start to bring that back together by going, okay, are you still in survival mode? Are you as busy as you believe you are? Because apparently you've got time for many other things. Right? And how do we start to prioritize ourselves and date again, relearn each other? You'll hear people say, “You're not who I married.” And I go, I'm so glad. “I'd be worried if they were, because I hope I'm different from what I was at 28. Like, you know, at 41. I hope  I've learned enough, and I've adjusted and grown as a person, totally. What they're saying is, I don't like who you've become.” 

“Don't like the connection that we share. Like, I can't.”  

“Yeah. Like, I don't get you anymore, or the stuff we used to do together, I don't enjoy anymore. But you enjoy it.” Whatever, right? Like, that's the divide. And so when we can say something more along those lines of, like, I don't think I understand you anymore like I used to. Okay, then let's start to get to know each other better, understand why I love those things. My husband's so silly. So I decided on my 40th birthday that I wanted to learn the drum set. I played the flute growing up. I did ballet. I played basketball. I was very active. And then you become a parent. Everybody else's lives are active, but you are active because of them. I was like, I want to do something. For me, it's like, I want to learn the drum set. 

But I waited a year because I know myself and I love lots of things. So I want to make sure I still want to do it. It's a bit like a tattoo, right? Like, let's really make sure I still want this. And I said, okay, this year I'm going to do it. And at first, I noticed my husband was a little like, really, like, midlife crisis. I'm like, what? I could get tattoos and piercings and do all sorts of stuff, but what? I'm going to learn the drum set. Thank you. Later on, you'll thank me. But I was like, okay. And I kept going, no, I'm gonna share. And so every week I'd be like, here's how my lesson was. Here's what I was doing. Even when he. 

And if he'd kind of roll his eyes, I'd be like, “No, because I could go do this separately and not invite you in.” 

And now I'm getting my dopamine hits elsewhere and not sharing them with you. That's kind of not such a great recipe. 

Yes. So, because I understood this dynamic that can happen, I stayed consistent. Nope, I'm going to share about it. I will not feel shame about doing this. He can call it whatever he wants, but I'm doing it and I love it. And I'm quite good at it, actually. So I was like, I'm going to show you videos. I'm going to. And all of a sudden, I think it clicked for him. Oh, look how excited she is. Look how she wants to connect with me. Look, she's not saying you need to go find your own thing, but that she wants to invite me into this to share that joy, and that shift happened in him. And now it's fun to tell me he'll text me, “Hey, rockstar.” And I'm like, “Oh, that's so sweet,” like, super cute connection point now. 

Yes. 

I'm staying consistent and going, you don't have to like that. I want to sail, or whatever your hobby is now that you want to do. But I'm going to share it with you because it's important to me that you're aware of what I enjoy and what brings me joy right now. 

Yeah, I love that. Thank you for giving a real-life example. And then, Katie, when you were talking about this, parallel tracks that can serve a purpose for a period of time. However, additionally, with the developmental stages of relationship, we can't sustain a connection by not nurturing it. So you use the word sustainability, and that if we're habituated to being more highly productive just in all areas of our life, we are not in the habit of dropping in, having that connection, and thus also being connected to our loved one, spouse, or partner. So I was like, “Oh, people kind of need a reminder here.” So you're giving some real actionable recommendations around having a check-in in dating, sharing. I'm sure you have many more. 

But this gives that experience of maybe what we're not in the habit of doing, but is such vital fuel for emotional connection. Erotic connection. 

Yes. And exactly what you said. It's like, 

or we shouldn't. And I'll have my clients clasp their hands to see which thumb is usually first. And then I'll go, now switch it. And how uncomfortable does that feel? But is there anything different? I mean, like, it's just fingers in a different order, but it's still doing the same thing. Same if we just crossed our arms, right? We switch, it's just uncomfortable in the beginning because it's a new habit. And until it becomes your norm, it's going to feel that way. Nothing's wrong, though. Our systems are so regulated. If something feels different or odd or off, it's wrong. And it's like, Or is it we're learning new neural pathways, or like, we're really starting to build a new interstate in our brain? Like, no, we're going to start driving this way instead of this old path that the road's beat up. We don't want to be on that anymore. So getting your nervous system comfortable with the change and the new habits, even if it feels mechanic or robotic, hey, okay. If you're more of a thinker and your partner's a feeling, you're like, I'm gonna try to speak your language. I'm gonna try to. You know, I always say it's like French and Chinese. I'm gonna start to learn Chinese so that you can better understand what I'm saying. Right? Like, it's gonna feel uncomfortable. 

Totally. 

And then it starts to flow, and you're like, even though French is my mother tongue, I'm gonna. I can say some things in Chinese. And you seem to really soak it up. Right? We just have to learn to speak our partner's language. That doesn't mean we change for our partners. Oh, it gets on my nerves when people say, “I changed for you.” And I'm like, “Or did you?” Are you learning a skill set on how to interact with them? Now? If you feel like you've changed in all areas of your life, yeah, that's a problem. But if it's a skill set, you're learning to better communicate, a love language, an arguing language, whatever it might be, right? That's 

“So stop talking to your partner like you. You need to receive it and start, like, if they're more of a thinker, you don't lead with, well, how do you feel about that? You lead with, well, tell me what your thoughts are on it. What, you know, what do you see practically working out in this way? Like, you speak their language, and then you can slip in.” Oh, that sounds aggravating. There you go. You've shared, like, you're teaching them your language. So this is. It's. It's this fun dance between couples. If we'd start to realize that this is actually the normal work of being in a healthy relationship. Is that work? Yes, it's just work. Right? It's a quote, people, like, say, hard work, but I'm like, if you want a promotion for a job or a new position in your company, you're not complaining so much about, like, you're like, end goal. Well, the end goal is a happy, healthy relationship. That's like building a legacy for others to watch. 

Yes. 

So do it. Like, be all in. It makes sense to be all in. 

Yes. And the word I'm, you know, you've already spoken about it, we've talked about the uncomfortability, and that often is associated with work because it's uncomfortable. And as much as we would love to just live in this symbiotic kind of place, the kind of place of cohesion, there's an interplay of the differences as we started talking about on the onset, and how we also find a place to bridge and find each other in connection. And it's this dynamic nature. Just as we are as individuals, right? We're learning and growing, and it's an expansion and a contraction. Like, they're both relevant and necessary. Well, I know we're winding down, and also I wanted to invite the layer of the midlife. And this is, as you've already spoken about a few times, that there's perhaps an added level of complexity. 

“Could even be a midlife crisis, or it could be a natural developmental transition or process. And do you want to speak about how this can add a layer of difficulty to what a couple negotiates?” 

“Yeah, definitely. Because, you know, as a woman is going through the very natural and normal phase of perimenopause, a lot of people are like, it's a fad.” And I'm like, just because it's all over Instagram doesn't mean it's a fad. It's educational material over the normal natural phase we all go through. Unless there are situations. Obviously, some people go through medical menopause, right? Yeah. So there are things that we have to be aware of that are just normal. But for a couple to go through this phase of life because you go through it together, one of you knows, one of you is experiencing the changes, but you go through it together. Because men have their own shifts in midlife, too. They have things that change. 

There's just, you know, you're not going to see that on TikTok or Instagram as loud and clear, but their changes are then interacting with our changes. So having a conversation, starting to educate each other. Come to the doctor's appointments together. Right. Learn together. For a relationship reset, I interviewed a gynecologist, and I was like, let's talk about this phase of life. And she said, the men who will come in will leave the biggest advocates for all women and their partners. Like, man, you need to go with your wife to this doctor because you're going to get so educated and you're going to have a better understanding of what's happening. Because every cell in her body is changing. Every cell. So no wonder there's achiness and sweating and eyesight changes and all of these things and mood swings. 

How can we, as a couple, navigate this evolution together and not drive each other apart? Or one stays hidden in their room because they're afraid the other is going to blow up at any moment? And how can the person who's going through that change, that metamorphosis, better understand, ooh, I'm about to blow up. I gotta go. Let me remove myself. Because many who are going through perimenopause, their children, if you've got children, are in that pre-puberty phase, so they're going through their own thing. And I just remember working with a dad one time, and his kids were already out of the house and such, and he said, I remember stocking up on chocolate bars and I could just tell there was this time. And I was like, all three of them, including my wife, they were just. 

And I just bring the chocolate bar, and I get the big knife, and I put it on the cutting board and chop it into three. And here you go. And just sit there and listen to whatever they needed to say. And I was like, there you go. Like you found your way of helping in a sense, like being a part of the journey, without going like, I'm gonna go hang out in the garage and shut the door and lock it. Could have done that, right? So it's about us educating, taking ownership of what we can do. And then it's just a messy process. Like, there's gonna be days where like, oh, that came out wrong. I am sorry. Let me take ownership. Even if it's 24 hours later. 

This is the beauty of those couples checking in weekly. How do you perceive I'm navigating this phase? What are some ways that you could support me better? I could support you. Right. That having just an open dialogue on it and naming it as something sort of funny. There's like the perimenopause side of us, even though every cell in us is changing, but there's like the raging side and the weepy side and sweaty or whatever. Like, give them all names and make it sort of the, like, oh, you know, raging Regina's here time. Right. You know, and like, yeah. Just so that you both can't laugh through it, but also that you identify. It's not me. There's a hormonal shift, and it is creating a feeling like when we're hangry. Right. 

I just need some food and a little time for my body to soak it up, so then I can come off of that if we could just normalize this more, subtract it from the person we are, as just a phase we're going through. This helps, and I think it helps couples when they don't feel so like, what is this? A lot of women don't realize you can be starting perimenopause. It's like a 10-year cycle. So it's like totally 35, 38. Mine started and I look back, I'm like, man, I wish I had known at 38 that's what was going on. Because that was the shift. That's when I started. Should I stay or should I go? I don't know if I'm really happy. What is this life we've created? 

Like, all these questions, and it's an invitation to upgrade within your own life. 

Yes. 

Not to blow it up and move on. Right. It's no, let's tear that down and do the 2.0 of our relationship. 

Yes. 

You know, we're completely going through a metamorphosis. Let's do the, you know, 3.0, 4.0 of ourselves. 

Yes. 

It is an Invitation if we're able to look at the celebration of what's happening to us and to our relationship, rather than again, that victim mindset. What's happening to me? Why is this occurring? You know, I can't stand my partner. Of course, how he breathes bothers me. Like, go educate yourself and do it together so that it doesn't feel like I have to teach him. I'm sending you five reels a day. Like, no, just go to a doctor and learn together. Yes. 

Well, as you said, the couple is going through the process together. And so the education and the thoughts and the support, and how just the exchanges and the climate of the home, and also the partner is having an experience too, that can be held in these check-ins or how we're doing life together. Like it's important. You're sharing so much here. Do you want to finish? Were you going to say something else? 

I was just going to say it's very interesting to watch couples reflect on the phase of life that they're going through with midlife. Right. But then to reflect on when they were teenagers or preteens and their moms were going through this, and the crap they gave their mom during that time, going like, oh my gosh. Yes, that's why she was like that. Right. Like, I met my mother-in-law in this phase of life. Now I'm like, oh my gosh, now it all makes sense. I internalized and thought it was me. But like, no, you're just completely shifting and changing. 

Yeah. 

And, mellowing in different ways. Right. 

So thank you for that voice, I appreciate it so much. And Katie, for people who are listening to you, resonating with you, and want to connect with you more, where would you like to direct people? 

Yeah, I think it's one of the best places on Instagram. Katie.Rossler. The podcast is Relationship Reset. Usually, episodes are about 15 minutes long with practical tools. What do we do about this? How can we make steps today? So come and listen, and then I'd love to share with your listeners. I have a couple of visioning workbooks. How do we sit down and really create the vision? Who do I want to be in my ideal self in my ideal relationship? But how do we do that together? So I have that as well. And I find that workbook every year in the new year and mid-year, couples love to do it together. To say, okay, it's not just about finally cleaning out the garage, but, like, what do we want to do for us as a couple? What's our goal this year? 

www.linkedin.com/in/katierossler/ 

Yeah, I love that. So I'll make sure to have your links on today's show, notes for Instagram, your website, and your visioning workbook. Thank you so much. And you also have a podcast, and I'll make sure to put that. Put that on the show. Remind me what the name of the podcast is. 

Relationship Reset. 

Yeah. 

Excellent. 

Great. Well, thank you, Katie. I am so grateful for all that you've shared. 

Thank you, Jessica. I've really enjoyed our conversation today.