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Repeating the same old arguments with no satisfying conclusion? It’s a frustrating cycle—misunderstandings compound, resentment simmers, and the sense of connection begins to fade. Many couples find themselves stuck in patterns where efforts to communicate and show love seem to miss the mark, leaving both partners feeling unheard and unfulfilled.

In this episode, listeners will uncover why these recurring disconnects happen and what can be done to break free from them. Through exploring the hidden influence of sensory preferences in communication and love, and sharing actionable techniques for resolving differences, this conversation offers new ways to shift out of gridlock and into genuine connection. From fostering loving curiosity to practical steps for improving empathy and understanding, you’ll find guidance to move past frustrating dead ends and cultivate a more attentive and harmonious relationship.

Julie Nise is a Relationship Trainer and Communication Strategist with a direct, results-driven approach. With over two decades of corporate, entrepreneurial, and clinical experience, she has guided thousands through challenges in communication, trust, and leadership. Her clear, practical strategies have earned national recognition, including appearances on the Dr. Phil Show and commentary on NewsRadio KTRH Houston. Outside her work, she enjoys coastal living, family time, and helping others grow with purpose.

Episode Highlights

05:12 How auditory and visual people perceive love differently.

09:25 Predictable steps in both escalating and resolving arguments.

12:36 Finding common ground in preferences.

13:44 The importance of curiosity in communication.

20:17 How rethinking your delivery can transform your relationships.

23:35 Understanding communication challenges.

29:38 How men and women generally express caregiving and love.

33:13 Prioritizing relationships through actions.

36:32 Understanding unhelpful habits origins.

42:57 How acting confident in a new social setting can actually boost your confidence, while staying anxious or reserved tends to leave you feeling the same.

44:47 The Satir model explained.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

• Identify your sensory preference: Notice whether you primarily communicate and feel loved through visuals, sounds, or touch to better understand your relational needs.
• Observe your partner’s style: Pay close attention to your partner’s actions and language to discern their sensory preference for a more effective connection.
• Ask directly for what you need: Clearly articulate your needs and preferences to your partner rather than expecting them to guess.
• Use loving curiosity: When facing differences, express curiosity about your partner’s viewpoint by asking, “Can you help me understand why you feel that way?”
• Move quickly to solutions: After establishing there is a difference of opinion, skip defending your side and collaboratively brainstorm potential solutions.
• Time your communication well: “Read the room” and only attempt important conversations or affectionate gestures when your partner is receptive.
• Check how your message lands: Take responsibility for making sure your communication is received as intended by observing your partner’s response and adjusting as needed.
• Practice method acting in tough moments: Even if you’re not “feeling it,” act as if you are loving and confident during important conversations, allowing genuine feelings to follow your behavior.

Mentioned

12 Relationship Principles to Strengthen Your Love (free guide)

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Episode Transcript

Julie, thank you for joining us. 

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. Nice to meet you finally. 

Yeah, likewise. And I know you are a relationship trainer, communication strategist, and you've been working in the field for a very long time, supporting people in having how to improve their relationships a little bit more effectively. So we are talking about the topic. I know we're part of the framing that I had the analogy of an operating system, and you're really talking about the unconscious. How does that show up in an intimate relationship? Where would you like to start? 

Well, as I was explaining to you a minute ago off camera, probably 95% of the time, people come in wanting relationship help. They're talking about, we'd like to improve communication, which means a million different things, but there are some really fun things to know about your internal operating system, if you will, or your unconscious mind and your preferences that show up that you're not even aware of until somebody goes, hey, this is what it is. So I thought it might be fun to talk about that. 

Yes. 

So it turns out that people, most people use one of their three senses, being auditory, visual, or kinesthetic, when they communicate. And it's their preference in how they show and receive love and connection, which is kind of interesting. So if you are, I'm auditory for an example. So, that's the best, of course, I'm just kidding. There's no best. They're all the same. But auditory people are going to be very responsive to tone of voice, volume, word choice, and all that. It's like we have a really, actually, it's a little bit too high-dial-up radar for that. And to us, 

It's how we want to show love. 

Similarly, when we receive love in the way that we want to receive it has to do with communicating and talking. So, that can get you in a little hot water, too. Because, for example, I mean, I'm really good at this. But sometimes I will say to my husband, who happens to be visual, why are you so annoyed? And he'll look at me and say, I'm not annoyed. And I say, well, you sound like you are. So just because we have this sense about what's going on, you always have to check your awareness at the door because it isn't always accurate. But anyway, that's how an auditory person would like to walk around in the world. A visual person shows love and feels love from someone else when they literally see what they're doing. 

So my husband, I mentioned, was visual. So there's a reason why when I give him his dinner, I put it in front of him and go, here you go. Because he can see that. Okay, so whether it's bringing your lover a cup of coffee or, you know, making some dinner plans or straightening up the house, whatever it is, putting the washer from the laundry from the washer into the dryer doesn't matter if they can see it. They're like, oh, that's sweet. And it means love to them. The last one is the kinesthetic folks. Now, obviously, kinesthetic means touch and feel. They're going to feel love and want to express love through literally feeling and touching. Okay, so a great example of a possible conflict would be, let's say, you know, a kinesthetic husband and a visual wife. Just to pick a topic. 

So they're sideways. It's her fault. She's got to make it up to him, right? So she's running around straightening the kitchen, putting stuff away, organizing stuff, making it all look great. And he's sitting on the couch, going, ” What are you doing? Just come and sit with me. He wants that connection. So you can get a lot of mismatches that way. Now, there are some tells. Do you play poker? 

No. 

Okay, well, in poker and card games, there's what we call tells. And that means, like, if you got three aces and you go, that's a tell. Okay. You can see what it's like. So frequently, you can tell which a person is visual, auditory, or kinesthetic because of the way they speak. So, visual people are actually seeing pictures in their heads as they're talking. It's a really unique phenomenon. So they have to talk really fast because it takes a lot of words to describe all the pictures that are going on in their head. Typically, they'll talk fast. Auditory people tend to speak just kind of at a medium pace, medium volume, middle of the road. And kinesthetic people tend to talk very slowly because they're literally feeling viscerally what they're saying. 

So you can imagine if you have one partner, this visual, one partner, this kinesthetic, again, you can have a real mismatch just in your sensory preferences. 

Yes. 

And so as you were educating, and people might be familiar, I mean, it's bringing to mind the five love languages. I'm sure it maps nicely with that. Whether or not someone. 

Well, it's a. It's a little bit different because this is based on, literally, your senses. 

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Like, I'm not saying that what you're saying isn't like, came after the five. I'm just saying, like, there might be some correlation with Gary Chapman. I mean, I think it's a good categorization. I don't necessarily like to heavily reference it, but when people are listening to our orientation around how we give and receive love, and how he's categorized. So you're talking about the senses, and do you feel like it? It maps, like, for his work. Like, do you feel like some? 

Yeah. 

Okay. 

But I've found that it's, for example, the words of affirmation. You know, everybody likes to hear nice things that are complimented, but it has so much more significance to an auditory person. 

Yes. 

If I complimented a kinesthetic person, they'd be like, it just. It isn't quite that same thing. But there certainly is some correlation. And the bigger point is to find out what you like and what you need, and find out what your partner needs and likes. Because 

Yeah. So you need to find out all you can about what the other person is all about. 

“And how do you help people identify that?” 

“Well, that's one way. The other way is that we go through a lot of communication techniques. Like, a lot of couples get very hung up on arguments. And there is a very predictable set of steps to have an argument and end up in a train wreck.” In fact, I prick that out, and I hand it to people. I say, okay, I've never met you before, but can you just look at this list and validate that this is what you're going through? And they go, yeah, wow, that's really true. So, yes, there's a predictable set of steps for an argument. There's also a predictable set of steps to resolve an argument. 

“And does this correlate with the sensory, the auditory?” 

No. 

Okay. 

“This is just behavior. So in a nutshell, we can make it real simple because I'd love your listeners to have something to leave with. It's concrete. So you're going to have disagreements in a relationship. That's normal. You can't avoid it. You can't put any two people together without differences of opinion.” Right. So what you do with those differences of opinion is Critical to maintaining a connection. Normally, what people do is, I think this, and I think that, okay, great, there's your difference of opinion. But the problem is they start from there, and then they dive deeply into why this is right. Why that's right, why this is better. Why is this better? And then they start getting sideways because they get defensive. And then another thing, and pretty soon you're in a train wreck and disconnecting, not listening, not hearing, not caring what the other person's going through. And the worst of it is, you don't really need all that. What you need is some resolution to the fact that this is different. Right. So what I teach them, which is pretty straightforward, is not rocket science. Once you establish there's a difference of opinion. Great, that's fabulous. Now skip over all that middle stuff entirely. You don't need to go into why it's different and give opinions because you start arguing your case like an attorney, and that's really when things tip over. So skip all of that and go directly to solutions. Given all that, what are the solutions that would work for both people? So they're reasonably okay, and we can call that done. For example, I'd like to paint the living room blue. Well, I'd like to paint the living room green. Great. Okay, never mind why blue is green and blue is better, and green is better. What goes with blue? Never mind all that. What are some solutions that would work?

And it's really funny, Jessica, when I have people actually do that little pop quiz exercise, after I teach them how to do it, they'll literally get a blank look on their face, and most of the time can't come up with but a couple of possible solutions when there's a dozen anyway, that you could come up with off the top of your head. So getting your brain trained to think in terms of solutions, not why you're right, is worth the effort. 

Yes, in my experience, this exercise of getting out of the content or perspective helps people start to either have more empathy and understanding for their partner or, with their partner's curiosity, have a deeper understanding of why it matters. So it's not so much the idea or the position, it's why it matters. And if we can start to understand those deeper needs, why blue is a desired color, or green, like how that's significant, how come that matters? And then once we can get into the understanding of the deeper need or the deeper mattering, then generating solutions that support both of that, then that opens up a lot more of, oh, so you want something calming, or you want something that feels like it represents health and vitality? 

And could we explore, like, how we could find a color that really supports both of those things, and maybe there's a lot more range there. 

Teal is a really good option. 

I know, right? Yes. 

Well, that's an excellent point about the understanding because really, how in the heck can you come up with a solution that works when you don't even understand the why of what somebody needs or wants? Right. That was kind of the shortcut version to avoid an argument. But the longer version is curiosity is your best tool, be curious, and don't do it backwards. You don't want to go too far into what your opinion is before you know what the other person wants. Besides being just very respectful and non-confrontational, that will actually get you some information that would be useful to make that solution viable. So curiosity is your best bet. I teach them to say things like, I don't think I agree with that, but I'm really curious why you do. Could you help me understand that? I call it loving curiosity. 

The tone of voice with which you say it is everything. Of course. But yeah, that's a really good thing instead of just pounding out your opinion. 

Yes. And thank you for giving just some language around, even if you can acknowledge the difference, because I think that's where people sometimes get stuck, is they feel as though if they're interested, they're going to be condoning and abandoning their position. So just to give some like, okay, I'm going to put a pin in my position, and I'm going to just entertain and try to. 

Let's expand that just a little bit because that's an excellent point. Actually. I could do you. You could tell me that the grass is pink and the sky is purple. I do not have to agree with that to say, ” Wow, you know, it's so interesting you see it that way. I'd love to know why you think so. I don't have to agree with any of it. That's not the point. That's exactly right. So, having that calmness and not going into a defensive mode. Well, no, it's not. Yes, it is. If you get into a. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. You're. You're messed up. Another thing I teach for communication that probably would be really helpful to, as a tidbit to take away is people's perspectives. Okay. 

Many people and couples get in just in real life get very off track and very in the Weeds when they start arguing perspective again, you could absolutely a thousand percent believe it's pink grass and purple sky. I don't want to say, ” No, it isn't, because you're going to say, ” Yes, it is, and then you have a yes, it is. No, it isn't. Yes, I did. No, I didn't. And that goes absolutely nowhere. Instead, that's the loving curiosity part. I don't think I agree with that, but I'd really love to know why you do, and then shut up. Yeah, let them tell you, calm down. It doesn't have to be decided in 3.5 seconds. You know, give a little space. Make a little space. A safe space for that dialogue. 

Right. So, not just go through the exercise, but to genuinely wonder and contemplate. 

If you're loving about it means you are empathetic and patient and looking out for the other person as well. 

And when I've been in that more contemplative and just trying to seek that understanding, I will often have a new understanding that I wouldn't have otherwise, if I hadn't paused. 

Okay. So you brought up the difference. The three different types based on the sensory input and how one is processing. And you're talking about common steps where couples get into trouble trying to address a difference. And also some real recommendations around how to do it in a more productive, fruitful way. Can you give us a layering here around how these differences could show up in a difficult conversation? So the auditory, you gave the tone of voice. Really being mindful of the tone of voice. I'm also recognizing posture or perhaps positioning. Do you want to give us just some more? Even the visual? 

Sure. So you bring up an excellent point. You know as well as I do that,

It's really hard for an auditory person like me to really grasp that. But, you know, it's just a default. There's so much a kinesthetic person has so much value on what he can touch and feel, you know, just the way it is. But yeah, so those can show up in disagreements or difficult subjects. Because, of course, when you feel pressure, we all experience stress of any kind. There's a natural regression. Right. To former ways of being in emotional states. 

So if I'm going, if I'm auditory and I'm under stress and pressure, I'm going to back up into what I unconsciously think of as my strong suit, which means I'm going to talk, and when we're under stress, our awareness drops. I tell people all the time, the single best, in my opinion, the single best relationship skill you can ever have is the ability to come outside your head, notice only what's going on in front of you, and respond just to that. Because we get way too much in our heads, you know, but anyway, similarly, a visual person would also be regressing into what they can see. They're going to rely on that strength, that sense that has the strength. So that's naturally going to distort reality and perception. 

Yes. So I don't know if you have. If people show up with a stronger tendency, but also have the others. Because I feel like I can recognize inside myself the auditory. And it's just interesting. I know you wanna respond to that. 

Well, just that it's interesting as you are describing the protective tendency to pull back. But the verbalizing is often looking at the outside to the other as a pursuit, like talking or even asking questions that come out. And I will say for myself, if I'm in that state, sometimes I'm concluding things and verbalizing them. And my husband's like, I did not say that. Or that is not at all what I mean. And so me reflecting on it is like, I have to really slow down and watch my. The connections that I'm making are incorrect. 

Right. That's okay. That's exactly right. So another thing that might be useful for your folks that I teach often, one of the first things I teach, actually in the first part of the programs that I do, the real meaning of your communication is not underline, not what you thought you said or meant to say or intended to say. It is only. The real meaning of your communication is only in the feedback or response you get, which is mind-blowing for a lot of people. So I tell people, never again can you say, ” Well, I didn't mean that. No, can't say that anymore. 

If you really wrap your head around that concept, what we're talking about is you have to slow down and spend, you know, a second and a half or more thinking about what's going on, what's going to happen in front of you, who you're talking to, and what message you actually want to convey. So even though I may 100% think I complimented you, like, actually, you have a pretty necklace on. So if I said, ” Gee, that's a really pretty necklace, Jessica. You know, that doesn't sound like a compliment to you, does it? 

No. And your body language for people who are just listening is like a little. 

Bit of body language. Terrible. Yes. So now the thing is, I may have genuinely really thought I complimented you. Okay. But if you say, ” What's wrong with my necklace? That's not the response I want. So anything short of, oh, thanks, this, you know, it's my friend gave it to me, or it's my birthday present, or whatever, you tell me something about it that shows you are receiving a complaint and you're happy about that. Until I get that, I have not communicated effectively, and that's on me because I'm the speaker. 

Okay. So I love that. Yes, go ahead. 

Good. I'm glad you do. 

Well, I think it's something that people don't maybe do that extra step, because the expression of the sender in the communication is what the sender is feeling responsible for, rather than the actual landing of the sender and the receiving, communicating, and connecting. “And for someone listening like that, maybe isn't so skilled at reading their audience or being able to deliver in a way that might be more digestible. This might feel like a lot of responsibility. Can you say more about?” 

“Sure. Well, it is the responsibility of the speaker. Now, it's true sometimes your listener or receiver may not be paying attention, may have something else on their mind, and you send it out, fine, but it still wasn't delivered. You know, you didn't end up with the actual compliment they were happy with.” So still, in all, as the speaker, you have some responsibility for reading the room. And if your partner is not able to receive a compliment in that moment for some reason because they've been out of shape about something else, then, hello, read the room, do it later. But if you're trying to communicate a loving thought or a compliment or something positive, that's an important thing in a relationship. So make sure it lands right. 

Way or really make an attempt to put effort into the delivery. I'm hearing, because I do think there probably are scenarios maybe for some listening that, like, I don't know that I could have done it any better. And when we are being mindful and conscientious, and we're doing the best that we can, and we're getting, and we're really evaluating with any feedback that it doesn't seem like they got it, and we're really checking in, there could be something going on, as you said, and maybe not the great time. Not a Good time. There could be other things, right, that even if we come back to it, there's still sensitivity, there's still a fear. And any, they're kind of seeing or hearing through a lens that is maybe distorting things a bit, depending on some past experiences. 

And not to blame, but just to say other influences make that challenging. 

Well, one of the best things you can do in a relationship, as you well know, is have a lot of awareness of the other person. And that alone solves a lot of those kinds of issues, doesn't it? So, you know, it's something we all have to practice. We don't come out fabulous at it. And even when you're often good at it, sometimes you blow it. But

So whether you have to slow down a little bit, pick a better time, notice what's going on with that person. If somebody just lost their dog, is out loose, and they're frantic about finding it, that's not the time. I want to have just a little chit, chatty conversation, and expect my, expect them to have the ability to take in what I'm saying. 

Or, you know, perhaps if there's like a trauma response or something that someone's feeling activation around the sensitivity to, okay, that person is not available, or it's blocking their capacity to hear. And it's unfortunate because, like, I won't. We won't be able to communicate. But then that might take priority. 

And that goes along. I'm, of course, I'm using verbal analogies. But that also goes along with. What if you're kinesthetic and you just want to communicate? You can't walk up and give somebody a warm hug when they're frantic about, you know, some other issue that's not gonna work. So, however it goes, you need to read the room. Have some empathy for the person you're talking to and make sure it's gonna be timed well, you know, it's something that they can receive. 

Would you like to say anything about? For couples where one is more kinesthetic and the other is more auditory or visual, and the kinesthetic is speaking but not using words well, or communicating and not using words. 

Communicating. Right. Oh, and they do communicate. They really do, actually. Interestingly, as a side note, which one you are will be largely evident in the words that you choose. So, for example, a kinesthetic person. If I'm going to say, if I'm going to encourage them about what I'm teaching them. I'll say, okay, first of all, I have to slow down my voice. So for you, Fred, this is going to be really easy to take in because it's going to be very smooth. It won't be rough to understand, and when you take it in, it will feel very grounded, settled, and solid for you. That's why it'll be easy for you to learn. Now, to the visual and auditory people are going, huh? What are you talking about? But to the kinesthetic person, they're going to go, oh, good, that's great. 

So you actually use different words and phrases depending on what you are. Visual people often will say things like, oh, I see that. That's clear. Auditory people, I hear you clear as a bell. Yeah, and a kinesthetic person would often say things like, yeah, that feels right. I can take that in. Let me digest that for a minute. 

Right, okay. So for the couple where the kinesthetic one. 

One or the other. 

Yes. 

So, like everything else, this is not really different. 

 “Loved and understood and accepted.” So whether they're visually oriented or maybe they're blind, whether they love sushi or they can't stand Chinese food, whatever it is, if they like the bed soft and you like it hard, there's a million differences we're going to navigate. These are not hard. They're actually kind of cool because they're predictable. 

Especially, there's consistency. Right? 

A visual person is always going to respond in a certain way. Auditory and so on and so forth. So it's not like it's difficult, but you have to be mindful of the person that you're with so that you can connect. You connect when you have these interactions that are comfortable, and they make and they feel understood. 

Yes. So for someone who's listening, who has a propensity to be very conscientious of their significant other, or maybe even runs the pattern of hypervigilance, or people pleasing, the attentiveness and the reciprocity of attentiveness might not be balanced. And so I'm wondering, how do you encourage people who are a little bit more apt to be caregivers, and their partner is not as skilled at caregiving or attentiveness? How, how do you help someone feel more understood or help their partner become more skillful in taking responsibility for their delivery? 

Right? Well, we are actually on very thin ice. When you start talking about caregiving and people pleasing, that makes the little hairs in the back of my neck stand up. But the broad answer to your question is because there's always going to be differences, aren't there? You know, nobody has. Very few people have equal caregiving or attentiveness going on. But I think it's safe to say that it's not that there's a big lack in the difference. It's just a different way of caregiving or a different way of showing love. So men, very generally speaking, tend to show love through what they provide and how they protect, and that sort of thing. Women tend to very generally tend to show it through physical contact and, being sweet and all that kind of stuff. 

So I think in the end it balances out if you have the right intention. I think intentions are everything. Now, the subject of people pleasing is a whole different thing. All different. 

Okay, so I would love to hear your thoughts on that before we pivot. So for one, that's not feeling heard, and is struggling to feel responded to. 

That's very common. 

Are you. And they've made a lot of effort to communicate, and it appears that their partner understands. But maybe their partner isn't taking the same care with them. 

To respond. Yeah. So you must be very clear about what it is you need to have your needs met. Okay. There should not be guessing. I'm stunned by the number of people who say he should just know. No, he shouldn't. You gotta tell him in detail. So ultimately it's your responsibility to say, you know, this is what I like. This is what I don't care for. This is great. That's not all that kind of stuff. Now, if the partner takes in that information and then ignores it, you've got a different problem. Is that what you were referring to? 

I'm speaking more about dynamics. Yes. That if one is doing more of the caregiving around delivery, let's say the partner is not being as careful with their communication or isn't being considerate in all the ways you're describing. And it's not reciprocal.

 They're not reciprocal enough.   

Enough.

Okay. So in that case, we have probably on the part of the partner who's not reciprocating enough. We have a failure to have empathy and perhaps a failure of commitment to the relationship. 

That's your primary job. And to do that has to be top of mind. I suggest to people who've had kids, it's very much like when your kids were little, itty bitty babies. I'll ask them what your most important job was then? And they'll say, ” Oh, to make sure they're fed. I'm like, the most important job you had then was to make sure they are alive. Okay, that's not the thing that takes up the most time in the day, clearly. 

But it is the number one thing that has to be on your mind all the time. In fact, it probably never left your mind for months and months they got older. Similarly, if you are a wife or a husband, it would be really useful if that role, that I'm the partner here, is top of mind. It's not going to be the thing that takes up the most time in the day, but it has to have priority. And the slippery slope of the kind of situation you're talking about, Jessica, is that you can always tell what people value, regardless of what they say, because it's what they will spend time, money, effort, and awareness on. 

And if you're not spending time, money, effort, and awareness on something, you do not value it, though it's fine to say, oh yeah, I value being a good wife or I value being a good partner. Well, it's gotta show up in your behaviors, and the result is everything. If your partner feels loved and heard and appreciated, and it's got enough reciprocity to make everybody happy, then you're good. But you can't just say, well, that's how I was raised, or that's what I've always done, or those kinds of things. 

Yes, great. And then you wanted to respond to the people pleasing. 

Oh, yes. Well, gosh, there are an awful lot of people pleasers, and I, I just. Okay, you, I'm sure you know of Virginia Satir. So I love to use that model for when it's not safe to have leveling conversations where you can be authentic and show up calmly and lovingly, state what the differences are, and then sort of get right to a great solution. Similar to what I described before. When it's not safe to level. “People have four strategies that they deploy unconsciously, things that we all do. Blaming, placating, computing, and distracting.” So the placator is actually the most manipulative of those four. And they usually start off being really nice people anyway. There's this extra little Bit of nice on top. That's fake. It's disingenuous. 

And the only reason they're using that level is that they want to take pressure off. They don't want to get into a hassle, they don't want to create a problem or an argument. And so they disingenuously tell people what they want to hear. But the problem is, every single time, a hundred percent, the only place that lands is in resentment, as you well know. So. 

Or it comes out sideways, and it's confusing to the receiver. 

Always confusing. Well, as the receiver of somebody who's placating you. How in the hell could you know what they're? What they're really all about, what the real deal is? 

Then you can feel that it's not congruent, and then it's like, yeah, it's off. Yeah. 

And really, they're actively manipulating to avoid the stress of a hassle or problem. But it's awful because being in resentment all the time is really stressful. If you're the kind of person who walks around going, oh, it's okay, I can take your son home from practice. It's no trouble. It's on my way. And then, as you're walking away, you go, she never takes my son home, and I need help. That's where it ends, right? That's where it lands. So you don't want to spend your life in resentment. That means you have to strap your big girl panties on and say, no, I'm sorry, I can't do it this time. I'd love to. Could you ask me another time? This isn't a good time for me. Can we do it later or something? 

But no is the word they need to start saying a lot more. 

Yes, yes. 

Yeah, it's not fun to be a placator, but they've usually done it forever. And we should point out too, all of these things that we're talking about that are, let's say, useless strategies or patterns or unconscious habits, all started for a good reason. At some point, so we don't want to give anybody the impression that they're wrong or bad or anything like that. Most of the time, people's habits that are no longer useful or serving them started for really good reasons a long time ago. And the problem is usually childhood. And the problem is, they just brought those coping strategies or perceptions forward when they're not useful. We all do that, by the way, until you maybe get some training or you get some feedback. Or you go talk to somebody and say, oh, I don't have to do that anymore. 

Because, gosh, I'm 45 and I don't have. I'm not in my childhood anymore. 

Right, and circumstances that are no longer needed. And as you're saying, it was an adaptive strategy at one point, but it may no longer serve. Now, you mentioned Virginia Satir. For people who don't know her work, do you want to say a little bit about. Sure. 

She was a rather brilliant psychotherapist back in the mid-70s. She was also somewhat involved with the folks who started NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming. Very, very smart, very, extremely empathetic lady. And she did so much work with so many families and so forth that she sort of observed these patterns that I just mentioned and highly advocates for what I love, which is the concept of the leveling conversation. It's quite different than the way people mostly have conversations when there's a difference of opinion. But it really works a lot better. And like anything else, if you want a stellar, excellent relationship, you need to work at getting the skills that make that so, just fall out of the sky and hit you on your head. 

And for curious people, do you want to say a little bit more about these leveling conversations? 

Sure. So you would start with, I guess, the mood you're in. You know, your mood state of mind determines everything. So you kind of have to take a breath, be willing to slow down, and focus on your outcome. The name of my website is Outcomes Only for a reason. I am a thousand percent believe outcomes are everything. 

And if it is not that way, then what you're doing or saying is either irrelevant or it's damaging. I draw a line in the sand with that. So we don't want to be irrelevant or damaging, wasting time. So if everything you do is directed toward that, things will change right away. 

So that's the mentality or the mood you wanna go into with leveling conversations, is you have to be focused. There's an outcome here. I'm not just gonna vomit up feelings. That's not the point. And I don't wanna have it tilt into negative. Cause the minute you get into negative stuff, you're gonna go be going a whole different direction. If you have a goal of having a safe, lovely, romantic, connected relationship, then you have to protect that because that's a sacred thing. That's a sacred thing, and you have to protect it by not letting your mood or emotion of the moment screw it all up, which is why. And some people will totally throw up at this. And I understand, but I don't really care what you feel a lot. A lot of the time. I care what you choose to do. 

like taking your emotional temperature. How is this affecting me now? Do I like it? Do I not like it? Am I okay? Am I not okay? You can make yourself nuts with that. Right. So, the mood you're in, you start with a heartfelt, true desire to work out whatever this difference is with your partner in a loving, productive way. So you're. First of all, you're going to be calm. You're not going to be all jacked up. You are going to be loving, like considering the other person's needs, and how they might like this to go. You are going to be focused on the future, like your outcome and patient.

Then you just go through the process of briefly describing what the issues might be and why they are. And like, what would you need? It's not what I think. It's more like, here's what I need. Maybe a little bit of why. So everybody understands. And then again, it's the idea. You dive right into solutions. Not being right is a dangerous, dangerous thing in a relationship. 

Agreed. And I guess when you were describing the state that someone's including their emotional state, I'm thinking about people who maybe are like, what if I feel some depression or anxiety or really experiencing a lot of, you mentioned grief or some level of pain. Accessing trauma. And I do think that sometimes we can have a part of us that has the capacity to show up for these relationships, even if we're individually negotiating a lot of big feelings, that there's still a part of us that can show up and that can still be enough to generate or kind of focus on the love and the solution. Tell me what you think. 

Sure. Well, it's very true that often what we need to do in our lives, we're not necessarily going to feel like doing. That's normal. The issue, though, is that 

So there's something to be said for acting as if. All right, method acting is what I teach. If you are, we'll just pick a subject that's not this one, particularly, but if somebody lacked confidence, let's say that's how they legitimately felt. By the way, that isn't necessarily reality; it's just how they feel. 

Okay. 

And if they walk around in a, let's say, a new social environment feeling, you know, kind of weak and puny and being anxious and not approaching people and staying to themselves, acting anxious, they're going to finish that evening exactly the way they started it. Conversely, if a person was initially anxious or nervous and not feeling confident, but they decided to act methodically as if they were confident, that means everything in their behavior would change. So they walk in, their chest is out, their head is high, they're talking to people, they're meeting people, they're wandering around, interacting. By the end of that night, they will feel genuinely more confident because their feelings will catch up to their behavior. It doesn't work in reverse. So you can't walk into that social gathering and go, I hope I'm going to be confident. 

That's not how it works. 

Yeah. 

So, method acting, this idea of going into the leveling conversation, will work a whole lot better than if you don't. 

Yes. Thank you. And I know we're winding down. Is there anything you want to say that you haven't mentioned here? Based on our conversation, as you were. 

Talking about the auditory, visual, and kinesthetic, you mentioned that you. You think you might be auditory, but you have some of the other characteristics. That's very true. I neglect. And I'm glad you mentioned that, because I neglected to mention that very often we have a different sensory strategy depending on the situation. So, for example, I am auditory. I shared that. But in a love attraction strategy, I'm very kinesthetic. If I'm in a pity party, my sensory strategy is going to be emotional. Again, kinesthetic, visual, and other. You know, because. So, in other words, it could be different. We usually have one primary, but we can easily flip around. And similarly with the Satir model, you might be essentially a placator or a blamer or whatever, but in a different context, you. We could use all of those. 

It's amazing how I can distract because that's not my primary in the Satir model, but it's amazing how I can distract with cleaning out a closet rather than going to the dentist or something. You know, I could find a million things to do if there's something I don't want to do. 

Right. 

And that's normal. 

We all do that for sure. Absolutely. Wonderful. Well, thank you for mentioning that. And where would you like to encourage people to connect with you? 

Well, if anybody is interested in the kind of programs or training that I do, they can easily find me @outcomesonly.com There's a little form you can fill out, and we will take it from there. Instagram: www.instagram.com/outcomesonly/; Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php

Okay. And what might people find on your website? 

Well, they'll find a little bit more about how relationship training is different than therapy. I don't do traditional therapy at all. It's actually radically different. And it'll have a lot of the outcomes and results that people get from their own mouths. So if you want to be encouraged that there is an ability to change and grow and learn, it doesn't have to be hard. It could actually be kind of fun. And that's, I guess, the main message of the website. 

Okay, great. So there are tons of testimonials and ways to get support. Wonderful. I'll make sure to have the link to your website on today's show notes. Thank you so much for all that you've shared. 

It's my pleasure. It was really fun. I hope you feel like your listeners got some good information. 

Yes, I do. 

Perfect. All right, well, you have a great rest of the day, and thank you again for the invitation. 

Likewise. Thank you, too. Enjoy the rest of your day. Bye.