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What if the key to lasting love wasn’t just about finding the right person, but about growing the right partnership? Too often, couples step into long-term relationships without the relational tools, shared vision, or understanding of virtues that make for true unity. Instead of connection, misunderstandings and unresolved conflicts take root—leaving even the most committed couples wondering how to sustain harmony and joy in the face of life’s everyday challenges.

In this episode, listeners are guided through a practical roadmap for cultivating deeper unity within their relationships. Drawing on decades of experience and research, the conversation unpacks how virtues like respect, kindness, and flexibility serve as foundational elements to thriving partnerships. Listeners will hear about the stages of relational growth, learn tangible practices for resolving differences, and discover how to create a shared language and vision that brings them closer—not only to each other, but to a happier, more resilient family life.

Susanne M. Alexander is a relationship and marriage educator and coach with her company, Marriage Transformation. She is certified to offer couples assessments and coaching through Prepare-Enrich® and for individuals with the Character Foundations Assessment™. Susanne has written/co-written over 30 books, including the most recent “Growing Our Unity: 19 Vital Practices for a Thriving Relationship”.

Susanne is co-lead on Accordia Way, a project that assists couples with excellent communication and decision-making skills.

Episode Highlights

04:05 The Importance of character and virtues in relationships.

08:27 Developing and sustaining virtues: Tools, assessments, and early influences.

12:16 Virtues Project origins and the concept of unity as a relationship virtue.

15:33 Practicing unity without losing individuality.

17:54 The process of reaching unified decisions in relationships.

20:50 Navigating individualism and control dynamics in partnerships.

23:31 Balancing autonomy, collaboration, and flexibility.

27:49 The impact of unity on family, children, and community.

29:52 The 19 vital practices and applying virtues in everyday life.

35:11 Restoring connection and humor under relationship stress.

38:15 Consultation process: Detaching ego and co-creating solutions.

41:24 Symbolism in relationships and making unity a daily practice.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

• Schedule regular times to discuss important topics as a couple, allowing the conversation to flow naturally rather than treating it like a formal meeting.
• Identify and openly share your individual strengths and growth areas in relational virtues such as kindness, patience, and responsibility.
• Observe and assess your partner’s demonstration of key virtues in various situations to gauge character compatibility and growth potential.
• Work on developing one or two virtues at a time rather than overwhelming yourselves with too many at once; focus on practical application each month.
• Prioritize unity during decision-making processes by listening to each partner’s perspective and postponing decisions if mutual agreement isn't reached.
• Incorporate rituals or symbols (like a decorative bowl during conversations) to facilitate ego detachment and emphasize shared goals.
• Reflect as a couple on the integrity and unity of your relationship before individually committing to new community or family obligations.
• Participate in couples’ groups or study circles to learn from and support each other in practicing relational virtues and building unity.

Mentioned

Growing Our Unity (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Marriage Can Be Forever – Preparation Counts! (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Accordia Way

Relationship Map To Happy, Lasting Love (Free guide)

Connect with Susanne Alexander

Website: marriagetransformation.com

Facebook: facebook.com/MarriageTransformation

YouTube: youtube.com/user/SusanneMAlexander

Instagram: instagram.com/coachsusannealexander

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/marriage-transformation

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Email: [email protected]

If you have a topic you would like to be discussed, please contact us by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here. 

Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship. 

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Thank you!  

*With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon if you purchase the book from this link.

Episode Transcript

 Susanne, thank you for joining us. 

Thank you for having me. It's so important for us to be talking about healthy relationships and marriages. And I'm just delighted to be with you today. 

Same. And I know that you've really put together a piece of work that really helps people negotiate this with really clear guidance. And I know we're going to be diving into that before we get started with your decades of work with couples in different life stages. What helped you identify, like, some of the common struggles that couples were facing? Maybe without even realizing it. 

The first thing that we started to notice was that people were not preparing well for things like marriage or things like serious relationships. We don't get it in school, don't get it in university, how to be successful in a relationship. And so we started to notice people struggling. They would get engaged, or they would get married, or they would start to be in a serious relationship, and immediately have difficulties. And so the very first book I wrote was a marriage preparation book, or relationship and marriage preparation book, because we really wanted to see people start well.  

Yes. And be well prepared and well equipped. Right. Like some of this is without necessarily investigating or evaluating. It's what we do. And we kind of imagine that it's going to have a flow to it, which it does. But then there are other things that we may not anticipate, and to be skillful for that is helpful. 

Yeah, well, and in particular, one of the places I have focused is helping people understand each other's character, as that's a foundational element for how we end up behaving in relationships. And so I help people with observing, can he be kind? Can she be compassionate? Can we be patient with each other? All of those qualities, because they help you a whole lot with parenting, with everything that comes up in a couple's relationship. And so I help people to do that early on and then sustain those behaviors throughout the relationship. 

Oh, my goodness. I know we're going to be diving in. And one of the things we're going to be talking about you have a recent book around unity. And also, as you mentioned, the characteristics. Does this relate to virtues? Okay, so for people listening, can you describe a little bit about what you see as virtues, what they are, as well as. As you're identifying in early stages, is someone able to practice these virtues, these character traits, or character development? Yeah. And do you see that as learning, like somebody can develop these, or is this more static? 

That's a lot of questions. So let's. We could tease it out just A little bit. My view of virtues is that they affect every word that we say, just about, and every action that we take. So if you think about that in a relationship context, that makes it pretty darn important. And what I look at as a 

It's like intrinsic. It's really part of us. We learn it as we're growing up. Our parents are key teachers for those kinds of qualities. They are an example of how to respect each other. How do you deal with each other in an honorable way? And then they're like guiding principles. Exactly. 

Yeah. 

And then we go to school, our teachers. If you're in a religious community, you often will hear it in those kinds of settings. And it's a lifetime thing. So a lot of the virtues that we develop as human beings are pretty firm by the time we're maybe 20. But it's a lifetime thing. So I see clients at times who are in their 60s, 70s, and 80s. I just had a client who was in her 90s, and she was concerned about whatever it is that happens after she dies. And she wanted to make sure that her virtues were in order, that she had cleaned up her life, that everything was done. And so I watched her in the last weeks of her life develop herself. And so it's up to each of us to pay attention. 

And so I ask single people to make sure that they know what their strengths in this area are. And then to be able to skillfully observe a partner's behavior, to see if those virtues are there? Can they be responsible with money? Right. Can they be kind when someone is going through a difficult experience? Because lots of adventures happen in relationships and marriages and life in general. And if we can navigate them and interact with other people in a way that preserves the relationship and is self-respecting, then what a difference that makes to the quality of our relationships and marriages. 

No kidding. And you developed an assessment, or you worked with people who developed an assessment for identifying these virtues and character traits? 

A little bit of both. Okay. So I have developed my own tools, and all kinds of information about 60 virtues that I have identified are really important in relationships and marriages. And then I collaborated with my co-author on the book Growing Our Unity, and his name is W.Grant Peirce IV. He has developed a validated assessment for 22 virtues. And so we use those 22 from his assessment in the book. And honestly, I say to people, work one or two at a time. 

Yeah. 

You know, when I say 60 virtues, people's eyes kind of glaze over. And you pick one, you pick two, you work on it for a month, and you improve, and then you pick another one. And virtues are often best in pairs. You know, think about things like 

If you deliver it in a harsh way, then it's really harmful to the relationship. And so you have to pair it with kindness, with compassion, with tact, and wisdom. 

Yes. 

Right. The timing is important. So 

So I so appreciate this, Susanne. I'm wondering, did you and Grant come across the Virtues Project in your research? I remember being in a youth program and coming across the school curriculum, and they had 52, and they had done kind of. You're nodding. 

I am. Yet. Dan and Linda Popov, who started The Virtues Project along with her brother, were early mentors for both Grant and me in our work. My late husband and I, who'd started this business, a marriage transformation business together, met with the two of them early on in our work and said, ” We really see the value of this for couples. They were primarily doing work with parents and children. And they said to us, ” We don't want to get married, we don't want to do relationships. And they handed over all of the research that they had done to us so that we could draw on it in our early work. I've gone on and developed lots of my own things that are not necessarily connected to The Virtues Project, but they were very much helpers and supporters at the beginning. 

Oh, my goodness. I loved their work. And I actually ran a whole camp, a week-long camp for youth, along with The Virtues, and was helping parents try to implement it. And that to your point, if guiding a young one, let's say a kid that's demonstrating bullying behaviors, I remember precisely to not be in this position of blaming or even taking issue with the behavior that something that they're doing, practicing assertiveness, like we can acknowledge the virtue of their being assertive around something that matters to them or their sense of what you know, that how that has value. But also calling up, can you practice respect? Can you practice humility? Can you practice, you know, and I remember there being so. 

So that this combination, this calling up, helps a young one and their development, instead of what not to do, to look at what to do. And it calls them in the direction of what to cultivate, which can be very helpful in leadership, both in school and in the family. And then to your point, to have something to focus on, I remember the 52 correlating with 52 weeks in a year. That was helpful for the curriculum. But thank you for sharing just a little bit of the context and my curiosity here. 

Well, it helps all of us look at ourselves as noble human beings. Right. And to see the good and the nobility in someone else. And that is a really important thing when you are in an intimate relationship with someone. 

No kidding. I'm a little bit geeking out that you developed some of the virtues specifically for couples. This is beautiful. “And so, when you and Grant wrote the book Unity, do you see unity as a virtue? And would you like to talk about how you define that?” 

“Yeah. We called it growing our unity, in part because we want people to be using that word. It's really common in our field. And in listening to couples, to hear the word connection. And connection, obviously, is vitally important. What we ask couples to do is think about unity as being deeper. It is a bringing together of your thoughts, your feelings, your perspectives, your heart, your body, your soul, your mind.” It's a holistic concept. If a couple develops unity, then they are empowered to develop unity in the family. And if her family develops unity, then they are empowered to develop unity in their neighborhood, in their community. And if we have lots of communities developing unity, then it affects the unity of the entire planet. Why do we need that die? 

Yes. And I would love to hear from you around how this looks in practice, and also for one that's listening, that, like, I know you talk about interdependence, so it's not so much that you give up your individual self. Can you say a little bit about what unity looks like in practice, as well as folks who are like, how does this help? Help still maintain some autonomy here? 

Because we do stay as individuals. Yeah. We have our own unique set of talents, abilities, thoughts, and so on. With unity, the design is that there is a blending at a level. So perhaps you might need to decide where we are going to send a child to school? 

You want to have both partners share their concerns about each of the schools? What are their feelings about their child and the child's situation, what's best for them? You want them to come to a meeting of the minds where they end up with a unified conclusion. They're not in conflict. They're not fighting with each other. They're. They are blending and letting go of their strong thoughts, blending them and coming up with a unified conclusion, and then carrying it out in unity. What we see often with couples who are struggling with conflict is that they might agree sort of on an outcome, but then one of them undermines the decision. And it then means it's impossible to even know whether it was a good decision because they're not working in unity together. 

And in this example, would you say, if people do their best attempt, it sounds like coming to a unified decision, hopefully, is an expression of both partners that they've worked to have, a way in which both of the needs or perspectives are included. And then from there we act. And then if one partner is acting and they bump up against, ooh, like I thought this was, I was a yes to this, but I'm recognizing this is harder to implement than I thought. There could be a re-evaluation or renegotiation. 

Absolutely. They come together and look at it. 

Again, the commitment to doing that versus going rogue and sabotaging or undermining. 

Backbiting to your best friend about the whole situation. And it's vitally important that they recognize that they are partners and equal partners respecting each other's mind, heart, body, and soul as equal partners. So there's no dominating. One of them cannot say, ” This is the way that we're going to do it. There's no attitude of I'm right, and you're wrong, because that immediately sets up disunity. And 

And they might come together and start talking about something and recognize, oh, wait a minute, some facts are missing. We really didn't dive deep enough into this school or that school. And let's pause this and come back to this at another time. And they agree together. Who's going to do the fact-finding? 

What I find with this type of discussion in marriage with my husband and myself, it's very much a flow. So it's not like a committee meeting where you have an agenda and that kind of thing. Although a couple can be more formal, we might sit down over a meal, and there's a topic we need to address, and we'll start to examine it, start to think about it, start to check in with each other, how do we feel about this, what might be possible, what might not. And if it's clear that we can't come to unity at that point or come to a unified decision at that point, then we postpone it. 

And there's something about sleeping on something or other things happening that then makes it clear, so often we'll just have these discussions over a period of days, and then all of a sudden the answer's clear. 

I love that. Thank you for giving this example. “What I'm feeling as you're describing this, Susanne, is that even the act of pausing and we're in process, we don't have the unified decision yet, is prioritizing the unity of the couple.” 

Absolutely. Especially if things start to escalate. 

Right. 

“And we all get triggered. There are times when feelings start to get strong. But if you start to have a clash of feelings, you know, one of you gets angry, and you start to have, you know, an edge of conflict or attack, there's no way that you're going to find a unified decision.” So if you pause and you calm down, you allow all of the physical reactions of your blood pressure going up and so on to calm down, you can think clearly again, and you can come back together and find a better solution. 

I'm aware, and I know I already asked a question on this, so we can move on. But I want to just note, and perhaps here, if you have anything to say here in the US, you're in the United States, right?  And in Western cultures, there's a very individualistic kind of mindset, typically, that we're not even fully aware of how much it's operating. And this unity may not be as comfortable for some who maybe didn't grow up with two parents in their home, or for whatever the circumstances, or perhaps various reasons why they might have a little bit more of an independent mindset. Do you find this to be a struggle for some to really feel the value and the benefit of prioritizing and developing the virtue of unity? 

It is important to look at the context in which we're living. There's a lot of polarization happening in the world around us, and it can be very easy for that to slide into a marriage. My husband and I have an agreement that we don't talk about politics. We don't tell each other who we're voting for. We don't discuss how we're voting because we don't want it to be a point of disunity. And I'm seeing it in some couples where they're disrupting the marriage because of politics. I meet with couples on Zoom all over the world. I have a lot of American clients, but I also meet with people in many other countries who are going through all kinds of things. 

What I notice is that couples or individuals, let's talk individuals, are on a continuum of control, let's put it that way, where some people are very strong on I need to be in charge of my life. I'm not willing to have somebody else have any say in my life. So you have this yes, no dynamic going on. Other people have developed the personality of being able to be flexible, where they're okay if somebody else is in charge, or they're okay if they have to take direction from someone else, and so on. And all of us are in different places with this, yes, no continuum. 

So I like to be in charge generally of my work. Therefore, I am an entrepreneur. I have my own office. 

I learned a long time ago that it does not work for me to be in an office where I have lots of people trying to manage my life and my work.“In a relationship, we all have to recognize that the virtue of flexibility has to operate to an extent. Otherwise, we are always in disunity.” So if we look at where we are trying to be in control of our partner and therefore causing a problem with our partner, then sitting down and talking about how we make this work? Just went out of focus there for a minute. We meet together and talk about how to make this work. I don't want to dominate you. I don't want you dominating me. How can we come to an agreement on how we're going to manage this particular task? And sometimes it's deferring. 

“Sometimes you have a unified decision that whatever bright idea one of you has is going to be what you're going to bend and do and try out and carry it out in unity.” Even the person who has done the deferring. And sometimes you do multiple sessions of talking it through. And one of the things I have learned is sometimes you invite somebody else into the mix. Because if you have two people who want to be in control or in charge, then that can be challenging. But maybe you invite your financial planner in, right, to talk about money. Maybe you invite a set of the parents or family members who the decision is going to affect, and so on. There's a way to do it and maintain the unity. 

This seems a bit more complex than I was even imagining. I mean, I'm surprised that I wasn't seeing it that way initially. But thank you so much for giving the example that there might be places where there's an agreement that we are going to operate individually and really have regard, as you said, with kind of the voting. And then there are domains where maybe one is a little bit more skilled or has a stronger attachment to more control, and the other one is a little bit more flexible, and it's okay. And there are not as many strong feelings. So you get. I'm good with you leading on that. Where it might be problematic is if they're deferring to avoid conflict, and they do care. And then. Yeah, that's different. 

But then. 

Yeah, and then there are areas where we both care deeply, as you said, with the children and what schools they are going to, and various. We will want to take time, and it might be several conversations, so that we can be more unified. And sometimes we need help, as you said. 

Yeah. Maybe you can go meet with one of the principals, a teacher, or whoever at one of the schools. Right. And get another perspective from parents who have children at that school. 

 Okay. So it's not that everything has to be unified. There's some. 

Yeah, but the goal is to maintain the integrity of the relationship. Right. “So we know that if there's criticism, if there is contempt, if there is conflict happening that is not being dealt with effectively, that disunity is happening between the couple.” If the relationship or the marriage is a fundamental unit. Right. It's the foundation for the family. The research is detailed. Kids do better when the. The parents are united. 

If everyone does better. Right. 

Everyone does better. 

Maps really beautifully on the attachment research. The EFT understanding and the way that I hear that language is the secure functioning. We feel at home with one another. We have each other's backs. Right. That we can hear each other's deeper needs and show up for that. 

Absolutely. And if they use the word unity, then it starts to send that vibration through the household. And what I notice happens is I know a lot of people who are engaged in, say, community service. They're very engaged in their religious organization. They are doing things out in the community. What I ask couples to do is, before they say yes to yet another thing, bring it back into the marriage. If one of us says yes to another commitment, how will this affect the unity between us, the integrity of our family? What could be the negative outcomes? Or does the whole family join together and say, yes, this is a great idea. Go ahead and say yes. 

And then that way the family integrity stays in place, and nobody gets resentful about what somebody might be doing that takes them maybe away from the family for a period of time. 

Susanne, you're referencing the process, and we're also mentioning virtues. And I'm recalling in your book, you talked about consultation. And I know there's so much here we're not going to be able to do it full justice. But so you have 22 virtues. So for somebody listening, that's like, oh, I really like this idea. I'm trying to get a flavor. Can you give a broader organization of the framework around how somebody could perhaps start to use your work and apply it to their relationship in this kind of systems way you're describing here? 

All right, let's give it a try. 

Okay. 

So what we've done is identify 19 vital practices for a thriving relationship. That's our subtitle. And each of those is something that research and our experience have shown are vital aspects to a successful relationship. For instance, we ask 

for their relationship. We ask them to demonstrate respect to each other, to communicate well, and to go on dates and do all kinds of things that science is telling us are vital for maintaining a healthy relationship, managing money well, being able to talk about sex, all kinds of things. And then within each of those 19, we ask them to apply the virtues. So, for instance, sharing, laughter, and humor are vital practices. We're calling it a unifier to share laughter and humor. 

So if you apply the virtue of respect, then you're not going to be teasing your partner in a way that hits all of their hot buttons and makes them upset. So you're not misusing humor. You would be applying respect so that sharing humor becomes a positive thing. One of our virtues is a positive spirit. Right? So if you have a positive spirit and you are teasing or joking, I will tell a story about my husband as an example. I'm very comfortable in the kitchen. I open up the fridge. I see all kinds of ingredients. I know how they go together. I can put together a meal. My husband opens up the fridge and can't see food. It's like it's invisible. He cannot see that there's food there and what it is that needs to be done with it. 

So I found this cartoon of a man standing with an open fridge door. The entire fridge was full of butter. And he's saying to his wife, where's the butter? So that has become one of the teasing jokes in our marriage. He will open up the door and say, I can't see any food here. And I then point out to him what he can cook. But it's things like that that become part of the culture of your marriage, but delivered in a way that nobody gets their feelings hurt. 

He's participating, and he's enjoying it, and that's visible. And that makes it a bit more fair game. 

And he will initiate it. You know, he'll start joking about it as well. So we've got these 19 practices that if a couple starts to include all of them in their relationship or their marriage over time, they are almost guaranteed to be successful at what they're doing. 

And they could perhaps. It doesn't have to be sequential. It could be pick and choose. 

They can open up the book at any place they want to. They can look at the table of contents and pick the one that feels pertinent for them at that time. What would be most useful? Absolutely. Anniversary times. I always encourage couples to do a summit, a reflection gathering about the quality of their marriage. What do they want to change in the year ahead? 

And you can apply any of the 22 virtues with any of the 19 practices. 

Yes. Although we've been kind, we've identified three that particularly apply to each one so that people don't feel overwhelmed. 

Nice. Yes. I mean, it's. To have an example, to have a story is super helpful. And to dive in and just start with kind of feels most fitting. Can also. Just experimenting with it and you. 

And we've gotten very. We have gotten very practical and very specific. So, for instance, in the humor chapter, the virtue of moderation is there. So then we say, know when to be humorous and when to be serious. 

 So we've tried to be. Tried to be specific about how you would apply that particular virtue. 

Thank you. 

I love that. 

Now, for a couple who's in a lot of stress, and if they're focused on humor and laughter, that can be hard to access. If it's a particularly stressful time. Can you say a little bit more about how this work could support someone to prioritize this a bit more, access it a bit more? 

What I see is that it takes time. So often, they'll start meeting with a couple who are in difficulty. There are no smiles, no laughter, and no banter happening between them. And if they start to do small dates with each other, just, you know, go out for coffee, how are you doing? Just have a light conversation and start to do that every week, where they're rebuilding their connection. Then it often happens that there starts to be a little bit of smiling and a little laughter, and I start to see them moving a Little closer to each other. The key is, what can they do that echoes maybe what they did during their early years when they were so in love with each other. What were they doing then? Can they redo it now? 

Is it something that they can use to rekindle the connection? What have they not been listening to? If they start to build connection again by sharing what's on their heart, what is it that's concerning them at the moment, and really, truly listening to each other and summarizing it back, their hearts start to reconnect.

They can start to refine things that are humorous. I often ask couples to tell stories to each other at the end of the day, maybe share something funny that happened in their lives. So they start to rebuild the funny muscles and get used to looking at what's funny in the middle of adversity or in difficulties, so that they see something to laugh at that they might have missed before. 

Thank you so much for everything you. I mean, this is not just a one. It's like one focus. There are ways in which this works together. The interconnectedness of these practices, I'm sure, supports the humor. But you're also talking about listening and perhaps attending to one another in this more intimate way. In an intimate way, yes. You and Grant do a beautiful job, and you've given some examples of what questions to help kind of contemplate or even have this idea of consulting. Would you like to say anything about the process, that you both help people dig a little deeper? 

And I was really describing consultation earlier when I talked about the couple coming together. One of the things that I encourage couples to do who are having difficulty with coming to a meeting of the minds and feeling like they're moving towards being on the same place, is to actually physically go and get a bowl, preferably one that's attractive, and set it down between them as they're talking, then they can think about sort of a little bit of ego detachment, where what I say goes into the bowl, what my partner says goes into the bowl. What that does is if I stop being attached to my idea, if my partner stops being insistent that something's right, and we both then see this central goal as what we're working towards, there's a mixing that happens. 

We start to have ideas or perspectives bump up against each other that look like they're opposite, and then we see a spark of something new in the middle. If we are a spiritual People, we might say a prayer. And that happens. If you're not a spiritual person, you may simply be tuned into the virtue of creativity or inspiration. And that shows up in the middle. What we start to see then is if we detach enough from where we started, then something emerges in the middle that neither of us could have dreamt of. If you're attached to something coming into the discussion and not willing to let go of that, then it derails the entire process. 

Thank you so much. I am resonating and have experienced something similar to what you're describing. Without the visual of the bowl, but just my openness to it. I have no idea what the outcome's going to be. I am going to show up, be curious, participate to the best of my ability, and something emerges that I would have never better than I would have ever imagined if I, you know, if I let go of my preconceived agenda. And I love the metaphor of the bull because it's this. I think we are co-creating a relationship, and our relationship has its own dynamic force, almost like its own creation. And so this visual of a bowl, it feels so symbolic of what we're co-creating. And it also feels like what we're both contributing, the ingredients, and then how it's centered. 

“It's like the alchemy of what our contributions and others like it start to have their own expression. It's really beautiful.” 

It's important, I think, at times to have symbols. Or signals. You know, I remember a comedy skit from years ago where they had agreed. A couple had agreed ahead of time. If one of them started to do something that the other one wasn't happy about, they just tugged on the ear, and you know, then they of course did a skit of a party where the partners were getting a little too obvious with the ear tugging. But I think there are things that help us to remember, like respect. “If we think of the symbol of a bird, and we might have the symbol of a bird in our home or a picture on the wall, if we think about being two wings of that bird and that the bird of our relationship, of our marriage, only flies when we're both strong and when we're both working together, that kind of symbol can be important.” 

And the bowl, you know, a circle, makes us think of unity. Right? 

Yeah. 

Yeah. So when we're struggling with something as a couple, it can be a good discussion to have. How do we signal each other? What is it that would remind us that we don't want to have conflict? What is it that would remind us? Some people have photographs of their families on their desks, for instance. That reminds you of something that you value and something important to you. 

So what is it that we can visually have that reminds us of our values and what's important to us? 

Again, I'm coming back to the guiding principles, perhaps. And, you know, people use the language of North Star, these reminders that if we're in a reactive or activated state, to have something to help orient towards. Again, you were describing that if we can be called to a virtue, it's something for us to be working towards that is aligned with our deeper values and what we're ultimately wanting. I think that can help be a steering force. 

I call us back to the virtue of respect right now, honey. It doesn't feel like respect is showing up right now for us. What can we do to have that come back into this space between us? 

And you said we instead of you. 

I was talking to a client this morning, actually, because it's their habit to say me and so and instead of the partner's name first and then theirs. And it's so important for us to thoughtfully think of our partner and to be very tuned into what is it that's of service to them. Have them be of service to you. And the language that we use of we and us is so important.

Well, I know we're winding down here. Is there anything you want to say before we talk about how people can get you, and you're in Grant's book? 

I'm going to reiterate what I said earlier, that I want you to use the word unity regularly, for that to be very much part of the language. What I'm asking for everyone listening to this podcast is to have the word unity be on the tip of your tongue, that it be part of the everyday language between you and your partner and your children, so that it is part of the whole family culture to be asking, ” Can we do something here to increase our unity? Is there something that is happening to disconnect us, that we can shift and move into being more connected? Part of that is that I'm asking couples to find other couples who are willing to study this content together. I think we need friends who are friends of our relationship. 

We need to be learning together to normalize together. And so I offer a discount to people if they are willing to form a group, and if they want books at a discount price. And I have guidelines to help them meet together as a group successfully. They can reach out to me at Susanne, S-U-S-A-N-N-E @marriagetransformation.com, which is also my website, marriagetransformation.com, if they want to simply buy a copy of the book to check it out and start using it. It's available on most online bookstores. They can also get it on my website, which again is @marriagetransformation.com. I'm the only one who sells it as a PDF, but it's available as an ebook and as a paperback from lots of other places. Facebook: www.facebook.com/MarriageTransformation/; Instagram: www.instagram.com/coachsusannealexander/; Youtube: www.youtube.com/user/SusanneMAlexander; LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/marriage-transformation/ 

Oh, wonderful. I'll make sure to have all of the links on today's show notes, and I was curious if you had people engaging in the work in groups, and it sounds like you're really encouraging that this can be a grassroots type of thing. It doesn't have to be something that's facilitated; people can really say, I want to be in practice and then find other couples that are interested as well. Is that the idea? 

It is my perspective that lots of laypeople, so to speak, can do amazing things in support and encouragement of each other. And we're adult learners. We don't always have to have a professional leading a group. I do workshops, and I do work one-on-one with couples. I'm happy to do that, and I want to see more couples who are encouraging and supporting healthy relationships and marriages amongst their friend group and amongst their families. 

Excellent. I'm so thrilled to hear that. And that this is accessible in many ways. And it sounds like there's so much more that people can find on your website. Susanne, thank you for all that you and Grant have done, the work you're both doing respectively, and for bringing this work to the world, and for all that you've shared here today. 

You're welcome. And thank you, too. It's great to be with you today, Jessica.