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Feeling safe in a relationship isn’t just about talking things through—it’s about what happens deep within our bodies. When emotional wounds strike or betrayals occur, the impact is felt not only in the heart but in the nervous system, shifting how we experience and respond to our partners. Real healing goes beyond surface-level dialogue and requires us to understand how our physiological state shapes our sense of security, trust, and connection.

In this episode, listeners are guided to rethink emotional safety as a whole-body experience. By unpacking the link between the nervous system and relationship repair, the discussion provides science-backed insights and actionable strategies to rebuild trust and connection after relational harm. Whether you’re seeking healing after a rupture or tools for ongoing growth, this episode offers a fresh, embodied perspective on what it takes to create lasting emotional safety.

Dr. Monique Thompson is a trauma-informed therapist, life coach, and best-selling author with over two decades of clinical experience. Her work integrates Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR), Brainspotting, Internal Family Systems (IFS), Polyvagal-informed care, and principles of epigenetics to help individuals and couples heal trauma, rebuild trust, and create lasting emotional regulation and resilience.

Episode Highlights

03:56 Reflecting on healing through a car wreck metaphor.

09:09 Exploring Jill Bo Taylor's groundbreaking insights.

15:37 Exploring modern infidelity in relationships.

17:57 Exploring complex relationship dynamics and boundaries.

20:25 Addressing hidden relationship issues.

24:38 Exploring the hidden mental health benefits of walking.

28:35 Exploring color connections to mood during walks.

31:51 Reflecting on and expressing gratitude with loved ones.

36:12 Decoding therapy lingo and referral insights.

39:36 Navigating decisions with trauma awareness.

43:34 Navigating healing after childhood trauma.

48:58 Exploring stress and its hidden effects.

50:29 Exploring the concept of emotional hygiene.

53:32 Discovering unexpected insights from partners who cheated.

57:04 Exploring relationship growth resources.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

• Pause and Breathe: Take a moment of pause with deep breaths to settle yourself and become present before addressing relationship issues.
• Self-Inquiry: Regularly check in with your deeper feelings and truths, beyond your immediate surface reactions, to get clarity on your emotional state.
• Take Ownership: If you've contributed to a rupture, take personal responsibility and reflect on the most obvious way you can begin repair, such as ending harmful behaviors.
• Prioritize Emotional Check-ins: After a rupture or betrayal, consistently check in emotionally with both yourself and your partner to stay aware of what you both need.
• Spend Time in Nature: Set aside at least 11 minutes outside, either walking or sitting, to help lower stress levels and support nervous system regulation.
• Engage in Movement: Use mindful walks of 30-45 minutes to process emotions and shift your physiological state toward calm and self-connection.
• Invite Supportive Companions: Bring to mind or reach out to someone who has supported you in the past, letting their positive influence help regulate your emotions.
• Seek Professional Guidance: If trauma or recurring ruptures persist, consult a trauma-informed therapist or coach, asking for specific referrals rather than relying on generic online searches.

Mentioned

Infidelity Recovery Workbook for Couples (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

My stroke of insight (TED) (video)

Helen Fisher (website)

Polyvagal Theory (website)

Gottman Institute (website)

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Depression

12 Relationship Principles to Strengthen Your Love (free guide)

Connect with Dr. Monique Thompson

Website: doctormoniquethompson.com

Facebook: facebook.com/MoniqueThompsonLPC

YouTube: youtube.com/@mthompsonlpc

Instagram: instagram.com/drmoniquethompson

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dr-monique-thompson-dha-lpc-lpc-s-a3066041

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

If you have a topic you would like to be discussed, please contact us by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here. 

Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship. 

Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here. 

Thank you!  

*With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon if you purchase the book from this link.

Episode Transcript

Doctor Monique Thompson. I appreciate you joining us today. 

Yes. I'm so excited. 

Oh, my gosh. And you have such a wealth, and your background and what you do in trauma and all the different modalities that you weave together. And we're going to be looking at helping couples feel more relational, emotional safety in a relationship after there's been an injury, a rupture of some sort, maybe even trauma. 

Yes. That's a beautiful garden for us to tend. So I'm looking forward to it. 

Yes. Is there anything you want people to know as we orient with you in approaching this topic, as we focus on nervous system repair, but more specifically, emotional safety in the context of a relationship after a rupture? “Is there anything you want to start with?” 

“Yes. I would love for everyone to kind of get in mind the metaphor of a car wreck and just kind of keep those symbols in mind. Is the car drivable? What do we do to get it back? Drivable? Are there some little, you know, pings that we just got to get used to? The car is still drivable, but it just might be.” 

It won't look the same. And what if this were a classic car that can't really easily be replaced? You know, kind of letting your body sense and feel that metaphor. Maybe there's something like this that has happened to you, and you identify with a symbol of your own as we're talking, and keeping in mind that typically we can find something, some form of transportation, even if it's not what you used to have. So just kind of keeping that sense of hope there, but also connecting with the vulnerability of something precious being, you know, wrecked. 

That there's been damage. And to really tune into the degree. 

Yes. 

I'm imagining for some what might be a totaled vehicle. For some. 

Yes. 

Is a doable, restorable thing for someone else. 

You know, my college car went through floods and everything else, as compared to the beautiful luxury vehicle that I have now that they're not. You know, I was not careful with that car at all. And some of us have a relationship history where we can see that you were not careful with that car at all. And some of the reasons the engine stopped working is there were no oil changes. And then you kind of get to a little bit more mature driver, and you're more thoughtful, you're more careful, and more select, but you still want to be in something safe. And so that is the other word I'd like for people to kind of think about is no matter the vehicle. No Matter the style, how glamorous, or how efficient the car is. It needs to be safe no matter what. 

So that's our keyword is safe. 

Thank you, Monique. Even when you say the word safe, I feel like you're inviting us to seal. 

Yes.

“And I can get a physiological. I can get a sensation when I think about a vehicle that I'm driving. Do I feel safe? And that's not always an intellectual thing.” 

“Yes.” 

“Or just the car serviced. And it should be safe, but there's a quality to it.” 

“Yes. There's attunement, and there's that sense of trusting your gut about my safety. You know, you're in the car and you kind of check it. You know, what is that? What is that feeling? What is that sound? And getting a sense of, do I need to pull over? You know, I need to pull over.” So kind of thinking that through, like when you're in a relationship, noticing, my sense of safety and trusting that it is a message there somehow for you, it may be just, you know, a little warning, like. And it may be that I need to get out of this cross, get out of this vehicle. There, it is not safe, you know, 

And once noticing, allowing yourself some focus, some quiet to figure out what that is. Where is this coming from? 

It's not always your partner. Sometimes you don't feel safe because you are driving too fast. You come into a rolling stop through stop signs, and you need to calm down so you can drive safely and therefore feel safer. And sometimes it's, you know, you're on the icy road, it's not the car, it's not you. It's an icy road. 

I so appreciate this metaphor. Yes. There's the weather and even. Okay, so I'm relating to. Okay. Sometimes I'm not fully listening. Like, there's a time not that far off, embarrassingly enough, that I was driving and I was like, oh, wait a second, I feel the car is like, loppy. I was like, I think I have a flat tire. I drove like a block or two, but I still. Like a block or two is a little too long to start to notice. And so there's that. And then I can also recognize there have been times way in the past when I was rear-ended. And anytime I'm stopped, and the traffic behind me is approaching, I'm still looking in my rearview mirror like, yes, gonna stop. Are they gonna? 

Pacing. 

Yes. So that's not even the car being saved. It's other people on the road. 

Exactly, yes. And you're bracing is the next time it happens, we're gonna be ready. Right, but then the car behind you is the same driver. They weren't anywhere near gonna hit you, but you're braced. And that sense right then of not feeling safe, it's old stuff. Yeah, it's old stuff, but it's still present with you. It's still in the car, your hands still gripping the wheel, you know, and then maybe your passenger says, ” Are you okay? Are you okay? And right then, you check in, you say, actually, huh, I'm okay. I'm okay. So even your conversation with yourself can bring you to safety, versus yelling and screaming. You know, these cars, so now you escalate it yourself. Yeah, nothing happened. You escalated yourself. And it lasts longer than it might have otherwise. “I love what we learn about the brain. 

For how long are we angry about? 90 Seconds. That's the entire biological process.” Jill Bolte Taylor's research, which she, you know, shares with the world through her TED Talk. And I love her book, My Stroke of Insight, which, like, it's 90 seconds and takes a whole 90 seconds. And then you think about, well, when was that book published? We're in 2026 as we're recording this. I was at the time working with Marines, and that was when the book had already been out for several years. It was before my child was born, who was now 13, you know, so then you think about, well,

Well, some of what I believe is helpful is to stay in the loop of what we are learning now.

Science can only catch up, observe, and come up with an idea, investigate it, and suggest, well, this is what we think may be happening. But the key is that we have more sophisticated tools now. We can do brain scans, we can see what's happening, and we know now that some of our reactions are just going to happen. And sitting through some of your responses is the power of your humanity. Sanity is saying, I'm gonna pause.

“Your most obvious one is just there, like pause and say, well, this is an obvious truth. What's the deeper truth?” 

And your Deepest truth is 10. It tends to be more quieting and bring a sense of calm, a sense of peace, a sense of safety, you know, that obviously will have you that will have you jumping out of the car telling people they're riding your car. 

Lots of narrative. 

Yes. You're living in the narrative instead of in your deepest truth. It is such a beautiful, calm visit on the lake. Your deepest truth. That narrative truth is like a windy day you can't get to see. 

Oh my gosh, all over the place.  

 All over the place. You're all over the place. Yeah. It's the same water, but the wind is making you feel like. This is not the same water. It can change your sense of. If we're looking at couples, your sense of safety with your partner is fluid. We know that it's fluid. It comes and goes. And sometimes, when we choose to look at this narrative and base safety on it, we miss important cues from within ourselves. You miss the important, deep truth. 

And sometimes you may stay in that car that you needed to pull over and check the tire for two or three more blocks. Then you look out, and you see this damage is. Oh my goodness. This is a lot more damage than it needed to have been. 

Thank goodness it wasn't. But, yes,

Yes. 

Right? I mean, I had my music on. I was thinking about what I was. 

Oh, you were having a bottle. Yeah. 

Okay. So the way I'm relating to what you're saying, I appreciate. Even as you talked about taking a pause, I noticed we both took a deep breath, and I just appreciate that. Like, that's just responsiveness. And then for me, my deeper truth, when I am having a bit more self-inquiry, it's not always pretty, it's not something I'm always proud of, but it's something that I do feel like, oh, there it is. That's it. That's what I'm reacting to, but I wasn't fully aware. And then relationally, when I take a risk to share that, yes, my experiences, my partner responds and turns towards me. 

Yeah. 

When I come with the story and all the justification and all the reasoning, my partner's like, I don't know where you're trying to take me. And I'm kind of wanting to check out and not really like, am I in or out? I don't know how to engage with this. So it can be night and day different in how somebody is going to respond. 

Right. You're focusing. What you just, you know, you describe yourself as pausing for focusing on this inner sanctuary where, as you mentioned, just because something is your deepest truth does not mean that it's this beautiful shining diamond. It can be a harsh but genuine truth. And sitting with it, inhaling it, and then letting it give you very important information for you. You know, about you. I don't know about you. But when I am in any of those states, you know, the tradition of addiction science. Hungry, angry, lonely, or tired, I. I need to tend to myself, because the self that I am bringing to my relationship is hungry, angry, or tired. And the other person, if they don't happen to be in some calm sense of self. Right. Then, if our angry selves are meeting each other, those protectors are about to die. 

Yes, it's about to be a fight to the death. But then sort of like the. You wreck this car, and relationships are precious. So then you still need to get in this car. An hour or two later, you're still married. You're still married. You need to get in this car. And you're like, how we even. We need to get in the car line to go pick this child up. And I don't even want to look at you. Right. You know, I mean, I'm in a regular marriage. I'll be married 24 years next year, 23 years this year; we just celebrated. And when I tell you, being in a regular marriage, I feel it is very. It is like a daily retreat for me. I happen to have a receptive spouse. 

And so for one year, for our anniversary, I said, I just need a year of therapy. But we go in there, and we duke it out, you know, just to go in there and act a plain monkey fool for a year. Oh, and we did. I really. I should send the flowers, you know, I just said, because I, you know, I just needed the space. You know, sometimes therapy is just your. Your space, your place to go and get it out. And we did for a year. And then it was literally like the calm after the storm, you know, oh, so beautiful. And the daily cleanup, you know, Ohio only handled it once as one of ours. Like, let's just have this moment be a moment instead of becoming our life. How to get up. Yes. Pattern. 

And now the pattern is cleanup. Yeah, you know, clean up, cleanup. So we still, you know, we still have our things, but the cleanup is faster, cleaner.

Yes. 

More efficient. And we both now have different daily habits to bring your cleaner self to each other, you know, and genuinely, we looked at, like, well, I. So Occam's razor is one of my principles, even as a therapist. Even as a life coach is what is the most obvious reason? What is the most obvious explanation for this dilemma? And for many of the couples that I work with, especially when there's been trauma, and

The Internet and social media have opened up ways of cheating that never existed before. Being overly focused on someone, it can be a sense of infraction, the lack of attention to the relationship, because you are building a following online, and the people in your house don't know who you are. 

So there are all these kinds of, I call it,

So it's gone, you know, the birthday party you miss, the special events that you don't even know what's going on, and then, unfortunately, even tender moments, the person who's the caregiver and the other person's not there. The not thereness. So all of those different ways of being with someone or those count to me as infidelity. Well, now in the wake of it, how do you fix that? Well, some of it is you take personal ownership and responsibility for first looking at what's the most obvious thing we could do. What's the most obvious thing we could do? If you're cheating, stop. Seriously, like the most.

Here's the thing. People who are in relationships right now with someone who cheated on them are fully aware that it was seen as an easy thing. It is not an easy thing, but it is the most obvious thing. Obvious and easy. Not always cousins. So then you stop cheating, but the person says, ” Well, I didn't actually have sex with that person, or I wasn't intimate with them in the way that we didn't agree to. Because sometimes people have agreed on certain indiscretions, but the other person went too far, and they said, well, why not do that if we're doing this? So now can we renegotiate? Well, while you're renegotiating, are you continuing to create tears in the relationship? 

So even though it can be the most obvious answer, it's not always the easily accomplished task. And even in my marriage, one of them is that we go to bed at the same time together. Like, we will physically be in the bed at the same time. Well, I tend to create best after the house is quiet. I'm a mom. I'm a wife. We have busy lives. And when the house is busy, I can't think. I think I can make myself get administrative things done, but things that require, like my deep, creative self. I just really need the whole house quiet. We move things around so that I have quiet during the day. Okay. And then we both noticed that shift, like going to bed at the same time most nights. Every blue moon, we don't. It shifted things with us. 

Turns out he needs physical, like just my arm. We joking was like you just need my arm. I just need your arm. I just need your arm. And then I noticed I'm like, I need it too, because I'm more creative after, you know? And it's just the most beautiful thing to me that what, as it turns out, we both needed was just, I just need your arm, you know? But not having it. Oh, my God.

Yes. Qualitatively different. 

It's like not changing the oil in the car. It's such a small thing, but if you do not do it, you will have no engine, and there's nothing anybody can do. What happened? You didn't change the oil. It was such a simple thing to do, but not doing it now. Beautiful car, beautiful tires. No damage. Not going to run, right? I'm running. Not going to run. And you blew the engine now. So the small, seemingly unimportant things that are obvious fixers to do in emotionally checking in with each other after infidelity or some other kind of rupture are things where your trust is broken. You'd really want to take a step back and reassess. Well, breathe through what really caused it. Like, how did I? What was really happening? And you weren't listening. 

It was that obvious and seemingly simple to fix. Be like, maybe I was enjoying my music. So how do I drive the car and enjoy my music? You know, so not always simply fixed, but in relationships where there's been a rupture, you may know what to do, but how to do it. How to do it, so I'm gonna give a couple of. I would, again, not simple, but things you can do. Perfect things you can do. A couple of them are things you can do whether you're in a professional relationship with a therapist or in a coaching relationship or in any kind of supportive environment. Two of these you can do on your own, no matter what. And then these others. Find somebody with some credentials to work with you. Okay, so first two. 

First two, one is, and oddly, while I'm saying this, the sun is coming back out here. It's been raining all day. And as I'm about to say this, the sun is so poetic. Right? But the one is to go for a walk.  And to be clear, I see a lot of different client populations, and I do have some. Some whose mobility is a challenge. So I'm going to add that accommodation here. Go for a walk or be outside versus inside. Okay, so sitting fine, but sit outside versus inside. And a prescriptive amount of time is minimally about 11 minutes. About 11 minutes. Okay, so let's say that you can only sit outside if you're sitting outside for about 11 minutes. Here are some of the recipe things you can do. You suffered some kind of rupture. 

You're trying to get yourself together. You don't know whether to stay or to leave. You're trying to make big life decisions. So, prescriptively a small challenge in your relationship.

Your focusing time is until you feel connected not with your partner, but with yourself, and as we were talking, that 

when you find it, sit with it, and connect for a minimum of about 11 minutes. Minimum. But how come 11? Well, there are some studies about the time in nature, being about 11 minutes for your cortisol levels to naturally decrease on their own. And outside time versus inside time, if I'm trying to kind of gently correct my sleep cycles, about 11 minutes, your brain catches up to daytime. 

It's daytime and helps you to kind of be ready for sleep a little bit later, versus being indoors without interruption. So about 11 minutes outside, a little bit of natural reduction of your cortisol levels and a little bit of regulation of your heart rate. So you're outside doing nothing, and nature's positively taking its course. So about 11 minutes, though. About 11 minutes. 

Perfect. 

All right. Yes, I did just say. Thank you for asking me that. All right. But let's say you can walk. Yeah. You can move. Okay. This movement does not have to be American Heart Association-level cardio. Okay? See, we just need what I call your old lady stroll. And I don't mean any disrespect to the older ladies who can move something. I just mean it just needs to be a stroll. But now I'd like for you to try to hang in there for about 30 minutes, maybe 45 minutes. And allow yourself to just be present. Almost a meditative approach to your thinking, where you acknowledge a thought, set it aside, acknowledge the next thought, and set it aside. Just kind of clearing space for yourself and noticing the questions that are coming up, and just a. Just noticing it. 

Not attaching yourself to any one particular thought or question, not any particular emotion, just noticing it and walking it out. You'll notice that you start connecting, you'll start connecting to yourself. And it is almost magical. And I'm not even into magic and Disney or whatever, but it's almost magical. And the truth is, you're doing bilateral stimulation. So BLS is part of the protocols for EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. But the natural BLS that we all do every day is walking, right? But this kind of walking, you're choosing to approach content, but without a problem-solving agenda. You're just taking a walk. And you can even gently remind yourself, just walking, and just keep moving gently for about 30 minutes or so. 

And you'll simply notice that I'm not as provoked, I'm a little bit more curious, my breathing is a little bit more regulated. I can notice these thoughts without being pulled into them. And likely you're in that ventral valve vagal state now. You're in a ventral vagal state. You may even notice that people are saying hi to you now, and you're saying hi back. 

Will you tell people briefly about the ventral? I know what you're doing. 

Okay? Yes, so, Polyvagal Theory, Dr. Stephen Porges, is where we get this theory about what happens to your body during your daily living, right? So just think about daily living. I don't want you to think stress is necessarily right now or traumatic stress or trauma, just your daily living. So throughout your day. His theory is that we kind of flow between these states. Your ventral vagal state is the state that you're in where you're willing to connect with people. You're curious, you're playful, you kind of, you're enjoying the moment. But sure as the days, minutes, and seconds passing, you're going to flow through a sympathetic state. And in that state, you're experiencing a little stress, but you're still kind of there. You're engaged, but you're noticeably experiencing stress. And then you may flow down to where you feel a little shut down. That's your dorsal vagal state, where you just sometimes you may say, I'm just done. I don't want to be here. I'm ready to go home. You know, your energy's just really depleted, and in that state, you don't want to talk. I talk to people. You don't want people talking to you. People are breathing your air. The water in Hawaii is too blue. You know, it's just there. And in this place, sometimes you might mistake it for depression when really you're just having a moment. Have that moment, notice it lessening as you do some other things, and it kind of flows. So just kind of noticing it is the power you have as a human to notice it going up, going down. I encourage some scientific inquiry of yourself when you're in maybe your states, and kind of keeping a mental note. 

There is a song playlist that I keep on my phone that I know will pull me up a little bit, and there's some music that I have kind of gently in the background when I know or anticipate I'm going to have a pretty tough session with someone if I happen to know we need to do some deep trauma work. There's some music that I play that sort of reminds me that everything works out. Things take time. Sometimes it seems dark. Things do. They often work out. There are no guarantees. So it's a balance of thought for me that things both do and don't work out. They take time, and sometimes they don't take time, just the duality. But for some reason, that helps me to kind of keep my heart rate steady. My voice, my 13-year-old calls, my kindergarten teacher voice. 

She cried in a teacher's voice. And that slow movement of voice and tone. 

The prosody. 

Yes, we co-regulate. So when you're in that place. So that's the polyvagal theory of co-regulation and flow, and just kind of noticing when you're in a state of that, you're not going to stay there, you're just, you're going to flow throughout your day. It helps sometimes maybe if you're on this walk to notice what color you seem to notice about that state, what color you notice when you're in a lower state or what color you notice you wearing at the beginning of your walk, in the middle of your walk, towards the end of your walk and just noticing it, not trying to control it or solve for it or labeling any of these states as good or bad. They're just different states, and they are helpful in their own way.

Maybe it's gross to some people, but this is the example I use. It's like going to the bathroom. Yeah. When you gotta go. And there's nothing wrong with you that you gotta go, but you can sometimes predict that you were probably gonna have to go, so if you're lactose intolerant, but you have to have that cheese pizza. I just don't recommend it before you get on the plane. So, in some situations, you're gonna probably bring your mood down a little bit, you know, so noticing. Okay, that kind of brings me down a little bit. I'll just be down there for a little while. And this is again my little 13-year-old. I use her a lot because she hasn't caught on to all my tricks yet. My, my kids are 10 years apart. The 23-year-old knows all of them. 

She's quite amused when she watches the 13-year-old. But the 13-year-old has a phrase that she was taught when she was very little. Be sad for a little while and go back to being happy. She knows it by heart. There's nobody better than you, but you're not better than anybody else. But you're my favorite Lili in the whole wide world. And she was about 2 or 3. I would say you're my favorite youngest child. When I was quickly corrected that she's not young. And I said, I don't know who this other child is. Is there a baby around here? I don't know. She said, I'm the firstborn later. 

Just to give your listeners an idea of what Dr. Thompson is dealing with at home, y' all think if you're a praying person and you think about me, just think about that. I have a youngest child who says she is not, in fact, the youngest child. She's the firstborn later. But I love it too, I love it. I love the confidence of it. I love that it was inspired when she was two years old. I go with it. But be clear. Sometimes that's what you're doing when you are parenting your younger child. 

Yes. 

Is giving the new message to an old situation. And when you're on those walks, sometimes that can automatically happen. That 

Maybe tender and thus giving a little bit more support that doesn't have to be judgmental or shaming. 

Yes, especially like a betrayal. Have you ever thought, sometimes, well, I didn't do enough, or I'm Worthless, or I wasn't enough, or this always happens to me, you know? And as you're walking, you may find that it untethers itself a little bit, loosens itself a little bit. You may not be ready yet to fully live in the new thought that comes up, but it may be. It may present itself. So here's a companion you can take with you. This is the second thing that you can do: a companion to take with you. You do not need professional help for this part. When you think about your life, if somebody who you owe a debt of gratitude they were there for you, right? Take them with you. 

When you're doing this kind of exercise, good company is someone who was there with you before. It's a true lived experience. You take them with you, think about them, visit them, and you hear what they have to say. What's their comment? And you accept that love and tell them thank you. And if they are still living, call or message them in some way and just say thank you. And you'll notice that you have this sudden flood of clutter. Euphoric feeling. And that is oxytocin. It is the love hormone just coursing through your veins. It has a healing effect on your body. And all you did was make a phone call or a message or something or think about that person to dose yourself. Now that you can do it anytime, that's two different things you can do. 

If you're on a walk, bring them with you. If you're sitting outside, bring them with you. But maybe you're not on the walk, you're not outside, stuck indoors, or you're in the car. You bring someone alongside who was there for you before, hear their comment, accept that love, and notice that it lifts you maybe a lot or at least a little bit. Oh, thank you so much to whomever. And notice that it lifts you just a little bit. So there are two ways to cope a little bit with that stress. It helps you to emotionally regulate. Your hippocampus. Loves it, you know, and that's the part of your brain that's helping you to emotionally regulate in the first place, your hippocampus, it loves that, right? So there are two things you can do, whether anybody's there with you. All right? 

And here's the other side, like the actual EDMR. I don't recommend anybody perform brain surgery on themselves, right? You want someone with a handy hand and expert attention when you're trying to do certain things. So if anyone's using the actual practice of trauma brainspotting, using the practices of trauma EDMR, anything that is in the trauma family, you want someone who's been trained there to do that with you, or you want someone who's at least a trauma-informed life coach, which is a little bit different than just trying to like accomplish something in life. Sometimes, when what you're trying to do is just get your goals done, and you notice procrastination is winning. A life coach can help you win. Right? Just you trying to win life goals. But sometimes it's a deeper goal. 

It's just shy of being a clinical thing. You could use a trauma-informed life coach. People don't always meet the criteria for a diagnosis. You don't need a professional, but you may not know which one you need. Which is where we are over here, on what do I need a professional for? Sometimes, oddly, you need a professional to tell you whether you need a professional or not. So, here's my other tip: if you're looking for someone to work with, this is my workaround. Google tip. Do not Google. Reach out to someone like yourself, Dr. Jessica. Reach out to someone like you or another trusted colleague, a friend who has a great person they're working with. And you ask the professional, ” Do you have a colleague that you'd recommend for something like this? 

Or maybe you live in another state, and you're like, I live over here. I don't think there's anybody in Minnesota, and I will say, ” Huh, there's got to be somebody in Minnesota. And so then we can put our thinking caps on and think and say, you know, when you're searching, use these key terms we have with those things. So, a workaround on Google, because Google will send you to a list, and then you're gonna get tired because all these let me see if it's a good fit. You're like, you know, maybe I just shouldn't wear pants. Please don't try on the pants of 10 different therapists. As none of you know, maybe I'm not. Consider a concierge approach to it. I recommend asking a therapist to find a therapist. Ask someone. 

And we can minimally, I help. I offer this for free on my site. If you need a referral, I will help you with at least the key terms. So sometimes here's an example of key terms we would know. Yes. That you might not know. EDMR is actually one of them. Polyzagal theory is another, if yes. Who's searching, saying, I'm looking for ifs. They're like, well, ifs. What is that even? Right? And we're internal family systems. And then so what does that even do? And you think, okay, so I could explain all that, or just put that search term. Or sometimes people I really want to meet in person, that can be helpful, but it can also be a barrier. And in certain situations, I recommend getting in versus getting in person. 

But sometimes I can hear the situation go, yeah, let's do that. And you know, let's do it in person. Another example, like Filial Therapy. What is that? That's when the parent involves themselves in play therapy. How would you know to look for that? You would not know. So, a person who can hear a tiny bit of your story, you don't need a whole story, that you trust a colleague or someone who's got somebody that they trust, asking them, ” Hey, do you think you can refer me to somebody? And here's what maybe people don't know. We're actually low-key, obligated, so we are supposed to provide appropriate referrals when asked. It's an ethics requirement for us. So I'm like, take advantage of what we're actually required to do, which is ethically provide good referrals to people. 

And most ethics boards expect you not to do it yourself, just go to Google and give people random three names. It's supposed to be an appropriate referral. So take advantage of that. That's the other side of what you can do if you need a professional. One, a professional can help you with a professional referral. Two, some of the techniques you do need someone trained in those techniques and if there is a diagnosis, treatment is the only thing that will do you all right, but that you're back to dating a professional, on the other hand, who can't sit outside, walk outside and either way, if you're stuck inside or outside, bring somebody along who has loved on you, think about the love that they gave you, listen to their comment about your situation. Ooh, take a breath and say thank you to them. 

Yes. 

Okay, here we go. 

I love it. Thank you so much. Giving a lot of guidance and support for what people can access, help support more regulation, have more inquiry around their kind of deeper experience, and also when and how to get more support when appropriate. Now coming back to the relational dynamic, there's so much here that I know we're probably not going to get to, but for Folks that are wanting to approach creating more emotional safety, but perhaps are approaching it with some of the. Let's talk, see if we can understand each other, but maybe the nervous system is still activated. Can you speak to what can help support more of this regulation? 

A hundred percent. So I like Gottman a lot. Gottman is an excellent statistician by training and trade. His research is exact, it is precise, and it applies across cultures and across couple types. So by that I mean married couples, cohabitating couples, the LGBTQ community, and cisgender communities. It is pretty exact, no matter what. There are four communication errors that he has studied to the bone that are predictors of conflict and divorce. And if those are happening, you're likely headed over the cliff. Right, but fixing those communication errors, just focusing right there on communication, my experience is that it works if we're dealing with what I call “vanilla relationships, where nothing was going on except communication problems. It was thick enough that it was a problem that needed to be addressed, but there's no trauma in the relationship.” 

And by trauma, I meant those things about infidelity that I was talking about earlier. Betrayals of trust. When I don't trust you now, I look at Helen Fisher's work, and I say, well, 

And according to her work, it is a biological event. And therefore, when you try to engage in what would make sense to do when it comes to communication, and, you know, as if one. You don't even have an interest in doing it; you're still taking things the wrong way. They are just looking at, thinking about them, looking at them sends you somewhere. And you just have this instinct to leave or to not try or just you like, I read the guy, but I understand it. 

I just don't want to do it, or I don't think that'll help. And you're probably right because we first need to relieve this trauma, this betrayal, this. This restoration of trust actually is a priority. For that, I more so appreciate individual and joint work. So studies are showing that witnessing helps. In other words, you're having a joint session. The other party is witnessing the emotional work of the other person. But before that, you need a therapeutic alliance. And that means that the person working with the couple needs a trusting relationship with both partners and with them both. They are. Everybody needs to trust the helping professional. 

Yes. 

As a priority. Right. So you need a therapeutic alliance. And what do we know about that? Well, there's been study after study on what different modalities work well. We know some modalities are a little bit better for trauma and betrayal than others. Meaning Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Great for communication and for non-trauma. When we get over here, we need to let the nervous system get to a place where it can even be. 

Reached before there's a foundation for settling and being there. 

Yes, being there, that's the key. Oh my goodness. You're not even there. Right. How are we going to communicate when I'm not even here? Right. They're not even there. That is the first thing the person has to be there. So, for emotional regulation post-trauma, we need the settling of the nervous system. There is a readiness of the brain. So we need the prefrontal cortex here versus not here. So we want to be in this part of your brain, the forehead. I don't know people. You want to be up here. Hey, you want to be here. Your thinking brain versus feeling and responding and react well, and reacting versus responding. Because we do want to make some movement to stay or to leave. But that's a big decision. 

And before I make that big decision, I really want to soothe and get the nervous system to a place where I can breathe through a conversation. I'm present for the conversation. And that if you're using trauma-informed practices doesn't take forever, but it takes as long as it takes is the way I say it to couples that it takes as long as it takes. And here's an explanation as to why I have people that it doesn't take as long. If there wasn't significant childhood trauma, if there was significant childhood trauma, sometimes it doesn't take as long if that's already been treated. Yeah, right. If it has not been treated, then it takes as long as it takes. But I want to be clear that childhood trauma does not, therefore, mean brokenness, devastation. The person just threw it off. 

You could still be responsive and move things along in what would seemingly be a quick fashion, but it also could not. So it definitely is a difference between people who have it and who don't. But if you think about this, it's like routing your map, and you say, well, which way am I going? You're getting to the same destination, but there are a few stops along the way. If there's been childhood trauma, if there's no childhood trauma, I don't need to make stops along the way. So I might get to the same destination a little bit faster. But what if I'm a person who's somewhat attuned to myself? Anyway, I come to this experience somewhat attuned. I'm able to genuinely practice focusing with myself. I have a lot of daily habits. My brain is in fairly good condition. 

Then that brain, that nervous system, is a little bit better prepared. So we look at things like how exercise rewires the brain, and studies are showing that when the brain is more prepared, it startles less easily and returns to quiet more quickly. So that's what I mean when I say some people may move faster than others. I do not mean to suggest a character defect. Okay, now, what does that look like in actual practice? Something happens, you say, I don't know if I should go, if they should go, if we should go together. Here's my response to that. Yes, you should go, they should go, you should go together. All of the above. And think of more than one person. So it may be that one person has a therapist, a life coach, and a family doctor. I genuinely mean it. 

And a family doctor. The other person has a psychiatrist, a therapist, and a couples therapist. It may look like there are a lot of people involved, and that's okay because they're playing different roles or doing different things. And I'll use the example of the family doctors involved. So let's say that you have some disturbance in your nervous system. Please know that's going to affect your health. And by health, I literally mean your physical health. Your T cell function goes down. Your sleep is disturbed because you're not getting good sleep. Now you wake up. Yeah, exactly. Your blood pressure. Like, why am I taking blood pressure pills? You're driving me crazy. I got to leave this relationship so I can live. 

Go to see your primary care physician, get it treated, start therapy, continue, and then once the dust settles, you're across the street from the burning building. Everybody's lungs are clear. There's no smoke inhalation damage. The house is ready for us to go in and see what we can keep, what we cannot keep. Can we restore this house? Do we need? Well, whatever you do, just escape from the burning building and trashing the whole thing before we're able to stabilize and see what's going on. I do not believe that is the right course of action. Human relationships are precious. But I am here to say that I've seen. I don't know how. I mean, 25 years. I don't know how many couples, but the publisher of the workbook made me count. Oh, my gosh. Let's look back at 2020. 

And that was like, who does that? Nobody has a little score. I really, I said, okay, let me just do the general math. How many people a week? How many of those are couples? For how many weeks? Well, I'm off for Christmas, did that math in my head. But then I did it like, okay, and times how many years? So at the time I had been practicing for right at I think 17 years or so. And so I worked the math up, but then I'm like, that can't be right. And I thought, well, no, that is right. So with thousands. Well, so to give hope to people, I never know how it's going to work out. But typically, if people clock in, it works out either peacefully apart or peacefully together. If you clock in, the clocking in is back to the. 

How long does it take? It takes as long as it takes. Who should come? Everybody. You should do yourself, them, and the relationship. What should you do if there's been betrayal, for sure? And you. Anyone listening? You can Google Helen Fisher; her brain scans are of thousands. Now she did do thousands of couples to look at the brain after heartbreak. What does it look like? And it is an observable event, right? You could Google Daniel Amen's work to look at the before and after. It is an observable event. You can see what is going on, the trauma right there in the brain. You can see it's there before. You can see what it looks like after it is gone. So there is a before and after picture biologically. 

And I just want to encourage people that once it's gone, it doesn't mean your relationship is all hunky dory. You have work to do, which takes us back to the communication. Now, there may have been communication errors that pre-existed the trauma.

Likely.

But we don't fix the communication errors as a priority. We fix the trauma. And then you go back and say, now go on a cruise. Go on a cruise, one of those little marriage conference cruises. Now you can have fun with the love languages. And now you can do all that stuff. But before you do all that, you're gonna have to actually do this work on your nervous system, your brain understands that these are observable biological events. Your blood pressure is just an indicator, sometimes of the amount of stress. 

And when fixing the stress helps your blood pressure, you say, oh, am I a smart person? Probably. But am I in a relationship? We don't know because you still have the work to do of getting the relationship back out of the bushes. And so there's that whole you know, that metaphor of the car went to the shop, Is it drivable? How will you know? You have to drive it. You have to drive it, you know, and then if it's in real damage, you can't just drive it around your neighborhood and say, ” It's fine, take it for a spin, you know, you have to take it for a spin. So now the relationship is weathered something. Is the relationship safe? You can't know unless you are in it and you make it through, you know, have an argument, see where you land. 

I have a pretty hands-off approach, actually, to couples. I want to see whether you can do this? I want you to argue reasonably and recover because that is the key. Not that you avoid arguments. Right, exactly. “What do you repair? Is repairing a priority? And the answer to that is yes, repair is a priority. Do you make avoiding problems a priority? No, you don't do that.” 

“This is the cleanup process.  This is the hygiene, the relationship hygiene.” 

“The hygiene, yes, the emotional hygiene. Regularly, daily, right? And internally, the cleaner I am in my connection with myself and all the different parts of myself.” When I check in with myself, and they're working on a little problem, they're talking to each other. My wiser self is all calm and sitting on the park bench watching everybody play. And you ask me a question, I'm in a soft place, you know, but if internally it's hell on the inside, I'm probably hell on the outside too, you know, so. And blaming my partner, that I'm hell on the inside because of what you did to me, a fraction of that is true. The bigger part of that pie is that I have a response that I could make in this part of this pie. 

That this happened to me is not my full truth. There's a piece of the truth, but my full truth is what I choose to do in response to this piece of this pie. And that is where your

And we made it a decision from a very conscious, grounded, aligned place. I'm feeling like so much of what you're helping people understand is that when there is a rupture, deciding in that moment, likely we don't have the capacity to do that. And that the goal isn't to go into dialogue, to stabilize, to find ground, to have that connection with the physiological under, and that deeper meaning. And then also from there, being able to incrementally have inquiry and process. It gives exploration to understand. 

Yes. 

And that I'm hearing you really speak to the expectations that it's gonna maybe not look like you want it to look. The pacing, there might be setbacks, there might be progress. But there you will know from this more awake place and this grounded place. And that's where you can rest in some peace or perhaps have an amicable understanding around how we create a new relationship together, how we part peacefully. 

Yes. 

Okay. 

Peacefully partying. Beautiful. Yes, yes. 

Well, Monique, I know there is so much more. And you have written a book, the Infidelity Recovery Workbook for Couples, Tools and Exercises to Rebuild Your Relationship, that's helping people guide. And I love that this workbook gives support to both partners. And do you want to say a little bit more for people who might be interested in it? 

Yes, I would say whoever the person is who did the betrayal. Immediately upon the book getting published, I started getting emails and messages saying, oh, if I'd only had this book. But it was from the partners who had cheated. And I was stunned that they were right. And I said, I can see that, though. I can see how, in the wake of the discovery, this would have been helpful for you to not cause more damage in how you answer, how you don't answer, and what you do. How you tend to the person and how you tend to yourself, and this sense of shame that you might be carrying that you're trying to work through, but you are dually capacity with trying to make a me it repeatedly for the person who's listening that you did the betrayal. 

This would likely help you possibly a little bit more than the person who was betrayed, because you're going to slow down or possibly limit some of the secondary damage that comes from not having the workbook. Okay, now for the person who you are trying to use this because you may want to rebuild. There is a picture on Amazon. This is one of my favorite reviews. A man is sitting with the book wide open, and you can tell he's like this, you know, and the wife is the one who wrote the review. It is so. But she's like, we're doing this every night. So. But I've seen, I've seen with the couples that I work with that the couple doing it together, almost like taking a class, doing it together at a prescribed time, seems to help people. So those. 

That's another way to use it is if you're choosing it, we're going to try to use this to work things out. Set it up almost like a class. We're going to do these pages on this night, and we're going to do we're going to talk on this day and compartmentalize it as such. Meaning if it's not class time, set it aside. Live your life when it is class time. Open up the book, do the pages that you've agreed to, and only discuss at the times that you decided to. That has worked. 

There's a container for it. 

Yes, there's a container for. Yeah. It does not have to be your lived experience day in and day out all day long. On the other hand, some people choose not to use the book. I will speak to some of your faith-based listeners. I do some faith-based work. The book is not, and by nature, I am a nonjudgmental person. So the book reflects my nature of being a non-judgmental resource for people. 

Great. Wonderful. Well, I'll put the link for people to access that book in today's Show Notes. And is there anything else you want to invite people to connect with you around or access? 

Sure. Follow me on Instagram, Dr. Monique Thompson. Dr. Monique M-O-N-I-Q-U-E Thompson with an H and P S-O-N, and then my website, doctormoniquethompson.com, but all spelled out, and Facebook; www.facebook.com/MoniqueThompsonLPC. Another book is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Depression. I'd love to know if anybody needs the kind of support, just follow. I tend to offer some tips specific to the neuropsych side of recovering from betrayal trauma, and I like the science a lot in session. I love the art of what we do. But for the public, I love to share the science of the whole thing. So follow me for science. 

Wonderful. And I'll put your link to your website, as well as where to follow you on social media, and your book on today's Show Notes. Thank you again so much for all that you've shared. 

Thank you. Thank you for having me.