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Is it ever just one big betrayal that ends a relationship—or is it those little, silent compromises and unspoken problems that slowly unravel the love you built? Too often, couples find themselves at a crossroads, wondering when things started to go wrong and why the issues weren’t tackled before it was too late.

In this episode, listeners will hear stories pulled straight from the front lines of relationship dissolution and learn how to recognize the warning signs before they escalate. Through real-life examples and expert insights, the conversation shines a light on why negotiating boundaries, having difficult conversations, and making intentional choices are key to lasting trust and security. Whether you’re hoping to repair a current relationship or avoid missteps in the future, this discussion offers tangible strategies and invaluable perspective to help navigate moments of rupture—and rebuild stronger than before.

Diana Romanov is the founder of Romanov Law, PC, an award-winning family law attorney based in San Francisco, a Certified Family Law Specialist, and the creator of the Divorce Like a Boss YouTube channel. She began her career as a prosecutor in Berlin’s Regional Superior Court before transitioning into family law, where she brings a blend of legal insight, emotional intelligence, and cultural fluency. Her work centers on helping people navigate conflict, rebuild connection, and create relationships with more stability and intention.

Episode Highlights

03:15 Red flags and relational power dynamics: Learning from divorce stories.

08:05 Negotiating differences, rupture, and repair in relationships.

11:13 The importance of alignment: Deal breakers, assumptions, and communication.

16:17 Resentment, expressing boundaries, and the dangers of unspoken discontent.

18:53 Building skills for assertiveness and self-expression.

20:28 Consequences of avoidance, agreements, and legal realities in divorce.

25:06 Consistency, trust, and the challenge of repair after betrayal.

27:12 Choice, ambivalence, and taking responsibility for relationship direction.

31:42 Recognizing patterns: Early signs and lessons from relational history.

36:01 Communication tools: Tone, “I” statements, and focusing on desired outcomes.

40:02 Commitment, energy, and the call for authenticity in relationship decisions.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

• Give Relationships Enough Time: Avoid rushing into commitment—spend at least three years getting to know someone before making major life decisions together to truly understand compatibility.
• Negotiate Core Values Early: Have open conversations about important topics such as money management, exclusivity, and future goals to avoid hidden deal-breakers.
• Retain Individual Autonomy: Maintain your career, interests, and a sense of independence within your relationship, rather than becoming overly financially or emotionally dependent on your partner.
• Address Issues Promptly: Clear the air by expressing resentments within 24 hours, after calming down if necessary, to prevent long-term accumulation and resentment.
• Practice Assertive Communication: Use “I” statements to communicate your feelings and needs without blame or accusation, especially when discussing disagreements.
• Visualize Desired Outcomes Before Reacting: Before addressing a conflict, pause and consider what outcome you desire from the conversation, choosing words that help you move toward that goal.
• Make Conscious Choices and Set Timelines: If facing a major rupture, commit to working on repair for a set period (e.g., one year), then evaluate whether to stay or leave, rather than remaining in ongoing indecision.
• Learn from Past Patterns: Examine your partner’s and your own relationship histories for repeated behaviors, as these often indicate future patterns.

Mentioned

Good Together (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Divorce Like a Boss with Diana Romanovska (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

12 Relationship Principles to Strengthen Your Love (free relationship guide)

Connect with Diana Romanov

Website: romanovlaw.com

Instagram: instagram.com/divorce_like_a_boss 

Facebook: facebook.com/FamilyLawCalifornia

YouTube: youtube.com/@Diana-Romanov

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/romanovska

Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins

Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship 

Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins 

Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/

Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins 

Twitter: @DrJessHiggins 

Website: drjessicahiggins.com  

Email: [email protected]

If you have a topic you would like to be discussed, please contact us by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here. 

Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship. 

Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here. 

Thank you!  

*With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon if you purchase the book from this link.

Episode Transcript

Diana, thank you for joining us. 

Thanks for having me. 

I know you have a unique practice as an award-winning family law attorney, and you have many accolades we can discuss. But as it relates to intimate relationships, you have this vantage point around seeing when relationships are dissolving and what people can be aware of and invest in around stability and trust before it reaches a breaking point. 

I actually wrote a book, “How to Save Marriage”. 

Oh, I did not know that. 

I haven't published it. So nobody knows. Yeah, it's going to come out this late summer of 2026. And I wrote a book about five stories of very intense divorce situations I have been witnessing as a divorce attorney. And what I have seen, in my view, went wrong. And then also from the client's perspective, and also a reflection back to my own defects in relationships, since it's not my first marriage either. And so, to answer your question, the first case that I wrote about was about a ballerina who, at the age of 20, fell in love with someone who was 40 years older, who was showing her the world, and with lavish gifts, coming from the Soviet Union, being in a situation where lavishness was not so common at times. So it was an easy situation. 

The red flags that were there that nobody told her, even her parents, are not just the age. Age was not at all; he was married, and she was his affair. And that tells me something about his character that he's not being honest. And sure enough, 10 years later, she found out he had two other children with two other women of similar ages as her own child, whom they conceived together in that relationship.

So that's flag number one. Number two, moving too fast, too soon. When they met each other two months later, he, she was also with a boyfriend who was no longer there. He rented a place for her, and slowly, surely, she allowed him to be financially dependent on him. 

And so that creates potential financial abuse. Because when someone gives up a career, a ballerina career, even though it doesn't make a lot of money at the age of 20, if she were consistently spending time and effort into that career, 10 years later, she would not be asking him for alimony. So it's a little double sort of situation because women who are listening are wondering, wait a second. So I cannot rely on my man to take care of our children. And I shouldn't; that's not what I'm saying. It's very subtle. It's more about giving up all the power to someone whom she knew too soon, not enough, who had another woman suffering from that situation, and giving all in without giving a chance to let things unfold. 

Giving it three years, not half a year, because in long-distance relationships, it's easy to be a gentleman. But when people live together in the same house, they have to use the bathroom, they have to use the kitchen, and they negotiate life. 

Yes. 

Get into a pandemic, you know, get into a stressful environment. That's when, 

Yeah. 

You know we all have some defects, and the question is, do we accept that all? Not just the good part. And so, of course, the age of course the most difficult, nastiest domestic violence restraining order cases involving children, which are the most heartbreaking for me to be involved in, are the ones where they knew each other for two months, fell in love. I feel like people tend to do that, and I have done that myself, so it's not to have a picture of how the puzzle would look. And all this picture needs is a face. And once that face is in, the puzzle is there, and we try to make it fit if it doesn't fit. And seeing the reality for what it is, a challenge. 

Especially with people who didn't have a family that was in a healthy environment, where parents were fighting, there was abandonment, or childhood issues. And I'm sure a lot of people have that. 

So yes, there are a lot of things that go into what you're describing when we imagine an intimate relationship, and that's typically significant to us in adult life. It's what we're bonding; we're social animals. And then the circumstances around it and all the layers that you're saying might influence someone to enter into certain dynamics. But I imagine in your position you're in a place of wanting people to feel protected, mitigate threats, and set their set themselves up for the best chance for success. And you're seeing themes, and some of the themes that you're mentioning are rushing into a relationship too soon, perhaps ignoring some of the power differentials, not giving up one's sense of autonomy or individuality, and relationships in the hopes that the person will be trustworthy when we haven't maybe had enough time with them to get the data around. 

Are they consistently reliable and trustworthy? Now, just to orient you a little bit, people listening to the show, some of whom have had a relationship dissolve, and they want to do better in a relationship. Many people are already in an intimate relationship and are trying to negotiate it more skillfully, and so want to learn. One of the things you had mentioned was the rupture in relationship repair. Rupture repair is typically part of the process. And you talk about what are some of the key things that people do that create stability around rupture, versus start to begin the unraveling of their relationship if they don't know how to deal with rupture. Is that something you want to talk about? 

Yes. I notice it in my own marriage, and I see it in my clients' divorce and marriage dynamics. What they complain about once they're divorcing is that when there is a problem, they discuss it. And I always hear this, but he or she doesn't listen and doesn't change. 

and follow through and allow them to sort of slip and again go back on track. Let me give you an example. A couple who are getting divorced with a couple of children. He's saying we're living 5x beyond our means. What does that mean? 

Whenever I raise the conversation about money, she would start insulting me, and I, as a result, would give in, earn more, and spend. But then he got into an accident and couldn't earn more. But the lifestyle continued to be that high. And so now they're close to their retirement age, having nothing to show for it because, to maintain their lifestyle, they were taking mortgages, loans out of their home to pay for things that are perishable, vacations, food, and lifestyle. So that's just one example of two real cases where they could not reach an agreement. I hate this word budget. It just makes me cringe. But what I'm talking about, getting on the same page about priorities, is our priority, maybe to save 30% and to spend, or are we all in because it's fine? 

If they decide we live only once, which is true, and we don't need retirement money, we will work forever and live until we die? Maybe that's paycheck to paycheck is fine, but as soon as there's a discrepancy, as soon as they both don't agree on, not on the same page, that's when the conflict happens. If one party wants to save and the other person wants to live a life being bigger than life, it's fine, but not fine with that person anymore. Maybe it was a top until a certain point, but not anymore. So when I see people don't reach the same level of understanding about different topics, it could be infidelity. They were married for 25 years, and now she wants, I wouldn't say he, but it's not gender; it could be her. She wants someone more exciting and more energetic. 

And so things change, and he's not in agreement with that. So another point of agreement, a disagree type of conversation. 

Yes, thank you, I appreciate this. Because what I'm hearing you speak to is the importance of negotiating and negotiating with real respect around these key differences. And can we arrive at a strategy or solution that we both are getting some of what we need? “I think a lot of people spend a lot of time in a relationship trying to persuade or convince their partner to agree with them when really there might be just some key differences, and we do need to negotiate in a relationship or deal breakers.” 

So, for example, if someone says, I had a client who got divorced after one year of being married, he said to her, I actually don't want to be in a monogamous relationship, an exclusive relationship. I would like to have more people. And so she said, I wish I knew that before we got married. So that was the quickest divorce ever. So, discussing important things, and I'm not saying that it's his fault, maybe she should have asked.

Yeah. 

“Yes. And not assumed. So a lot of things are assumed. Important to me. And so here's the list. You treat my dog well. People beneath you are perceived as beneath you. Well, or exclusivity or money management, whatever that topic is. If that's a core deal breaker, that's what'll be discussed before building three children, a home, a family, and a lot of debts together.” 

And this hearkens back to your earlier point around giving enough time and space to actually see somebody. They will reveal themselves with enough time and seasons of life to get an experience versus just our imagination and filling in the blank about who we want them to be or hope them to be. 

Or 

Which is fine. It's not a point of judgment; it's just the compatibility. I see a lot of people trying to make someone fit into their glove. I would like to say, but it's not really about the glove; they're trying to fit into their narrative, yet it's long-term better not to. 

Yeah. And some people are also a bit conflict-avoidant, and they want to please. And so they're not always revealing themselves or even maybe don't even know what they want because they're prioritizing the relationship, and they haven't even connected with it; thus, they can't bring it forward. 

Oh, that's another skill I learned. So when someone is resenting another person and doesn't say anything, it's called a clear-the-air activity I did in a class. So not holding to any resentment for more than 24 hours. And so what happens in couples who tend not to do that, they get cancer, worst case, or divorced. But 

And then from that place, it can be a negotiation to see how the other person responds. That would also be another. I don't like it when you're late to dinners every time for the last two weeks. And then if they respond, I don't care. 

That's a message. 

Yes, and my experience too. Not only if I bring something forward, if I have a need or something has a lot of significance for me, but I can also let my partner see that and try to make some agreements. And there might be things I can do to help myself get more of that thing rather than just completely relying on my partner. But at least it's part of the conversation. Thus, I'm much more able to advocate, take accountability, or make agreements so that I'm getting those needs met. 

That's right. 

And these are difficult conversations. These are not easy conversations. And you're in a line of work that is all about having hard conversations. And is there anything that you do? I mean, it sounds like the long term is really what you're pointing out. Like, let's not be short-term thinking. Let's look at the long-term implications of not having these conversations. And they're tremendous, especially when there are children involved. 

How many times did I say to myself, I would like to lose some weight. I'm talking about many years ago, and I wouldn't be able to start. And so this is the same type of muscle. By starting every day, just a little bit of weight, it's a muscle to say no. I remember my friend Bernie said, ” Well, how about this, Diana? Let's try to say no. Just one time on Sundays, just start a little. And so the Same thing was the workout. I couldn't start to work out. So I would go out and tell myself it's just going to be a walk for five minutes and I'm going to be back, I promise. And so after five minutes, it's 10 minutes after one week. And so now it becomes half an hour, five days a week, and I'm thriving. 

I'm excited to start because I feel better afterwards. The same thing with no. The first no feels, oh my gosh. 

Don't beat me up. 

Don't react, don't do it. And then the second and the third and the hundreds and the thousands, it just becomes second nature. So I think 

Yes. It's developing a skill that maybe we have lagged in or that we haven't given enough room for. And it does take practice and discipline to develop, but we will gain the benefits from the skill with enough time. And we can be gentle. Like you're saying, we don't have to overwhelm our system by incorporating this. 

The problem with not starting gently. And I have women and men saying, I cannot do this anymore. After 20 years, I am. It's enough. I am not. And I'm like, wait, what about the 20 years that you have done that? And so what happens? It's 

When they then do what surprises me sometimes. Still, I shouldn't be surprised. But when, after 20 years of marriage, he provided everything, the lifestyle, she didn't work with children, no children, it doesn't matter. And then when he comes to my office, or she comes to my office, and then wonders, wait, what do I have to pay spousal support after all these years? I already paid for the lifestyle. Why do I need to pay spousal support? I understand child support, but spousal support, they should be paying me for. 

It's not always fair. No. 

And so what I respond to them is basically, if you allowed that arrangement, if that arrangement was not okay, you should have consulted a lawyer before you started this arrangement, because you basically raised that monster that you don't like. And I'm not saying in a derogatory way, this is an agreement. People should be educated about what it means. If they're married for 20 years, that means they will pay for the potentially for the rest of their Life in California until they retire, die, or the spouse decides to have a job. 

I mean, this is. You're speaking from experience. This is what it looks like. And we don't always have a good insight into what things look like if we're in a situation where we're dissolving the marriage and certain dynamics are established. So even if one is saying, okay, I've had enough, and perhaps they've been swallowing or absorbing that discontent, never really renegotiated, you're saying it's a little problematic that there was not an opportunity to work that out and get, you know, along the way in the 20 years. So then there's the kind of gauntlet. But even then, you don't get to just fully opt out. Perhaps you have the spousal alimony or support. 

Yeah. Or dividing everything. 50/50. I had a man telling me once, if you forward me one more email from the other side, I will kill myself. Because what happened is. And I know exactly how he felt. So for 20 years they were married. She didn't. She stopped working right away, started accumulating clothes, and it became a hoarder's home with clothes up to the ceiling, gained 5x of her original weight. And he said, I don't know what to do. And he stayed 20 years, I guess, out of guilt or out of obligation, out of programming from his own childhood. I don't know. But he seemed so unhappy, and he couldn't get out. Somehow, each time I went to a hearing, he was almost fainting out of fear and disappointment, and I don't know what feeling he must have felt. So saddle. 

Eventually, they got divorced. But please don't stay too long if it's not working out. 

Yes. And I mean, this is heavy. Serious. I mean, I'm hoping he's okay now after the divorce. Yeah. 

Someone new is in a good relationship. I saw him at a festival, and he looked happy. 

Oh, good. Oh, good. I know. I mean, it's not the end of the story. So I appreciate you giving that you have some insight into his well-being, but this is extremely heavy. But also, you're heeding the warning of, like, we have some choices along the way. And while it might be difficult, these again have a huge impact. Okay. So just to kind of organize a little bit. When I asked about rupture, you were talking about negotiating, having some ability to have both people's needs accounted for. And I know you talk about trust, and this is. I could see how it's related. 

That if we are working towards having alignment relationally and personally, that we can feel like, oh, my partner has my back, or they have my interests at hands, even if we're at odds, we'll work it out, like there's some more sense of security and confidence that we can do that. Do you want to speak to that? Is that right? 

You know, I heard this saying: 

And I never understood what it meant until I finally was able to be in a relationship that lasted more than seven years, eight years, nine, without trust being broken. Without! So from personal experience, I can tell that there is no amount of money, no amount of books, no amount of anything that can. Cannot be bought with the consistency of the relationship. For example, if one spouse leaves the home and is confident that the other spouse is not going to do anything, that the other spouse will not approve, and that gives a lot of confidence to both. And once that's broken, maybe you're a better person to answer that, but I don't. It will take a lot of years and work to rebuild that type of trust. 

I don't know if it would be possible. For me personally, I can't speak for anyone else, but when people come to me, that's usually what happens. It's not their fear. It's behind the back without an agreement, the dishonesty. And usually, when these people, when I have a spouse, and the other spouse cheated, I always assume that they also hid the money, they also did something else because it shows about them as a person, as a character. If they're not integrity to keep the agreement, whatever the agreement is, if it's an open relationship, that's fine. Then this is not the agreement they break, but could be another one, could be a financial agreement. Whenever someone does that behind a person's back, that's where repair is tougher. That's not my area of expertise because usually when they're in my office, this is beyond repair. 

Yes. “You're seeing people at that juncture, and also you're speaking to them. One of the things I'm feeling as you're describing this, Diana, is a felt sense that if I feel inside my nervous system that I can trust my partner, I can feel relaxed, I can let my guard down. And that if something emerges that's difficult for us, that we will turn towards one another, we will try to work it out and renegotiate. That's the other thing about agreement. It's like we can renegotiate if we start to learn, like, oh, Things are shifting for me, and I don't know what this means. Can we talk about it? We can renegotiate.” 

Like, it's not like we're trapped, but if we are turning away and doing things unilaterally or in secrecy, and look to your point, things accumulate, and sometimes people try to be okay with things that are not okay, and then it ends up accumulating to a certain point. And they're not ever setting out to have an affair. But it's like, oh, I'm so unhappy. And I haven't addressed it, we haven't resolved it, and then I'm getting attention from this other person. It feels really good. And then it just starts to develop. Like, I don't think most people are setting out to like, oh, I'm going to go out and have an affair. 

All that to be said, if someone is not doing the hard thing to turn towards the relationship, say, oh, I'm noticing I got attention from someone, and it felt really good, and it scared me. And you know, let's talk about what this means. Or it's. You're saying there could. That pattern could show up in other spheres of the relationship, financially or otherwise. 

“Maybe it's a generalization, but the way a person shows up in one area. Yeah. Most likely, they're showing up in other areas the same way.” 

“Okay, so how do people, if they are noticing the rupture and maybe not having the repair or even the micro moments of micro repairs, how do you help people shift the trajectory? Because, like, it's.” 

“I mean, I don't.” 

“You don't, because you're not advising them. You're at the end, but you are trying to give voice to here's what you want to do and here's what you don't want to do.” 

“Only if I hear doubt. So, only if I hear some doubt. So some clients are calling me and say, ” Well, I'm considering divorce. That's the keyword. And I would like to know my rights. And so the way we end the conversation is, I hope you will get a good therapist with your spouse so that you can resolve the issues. Because I haven't been trained to do this therapeutic work. I am trained to dissolve marriages. And so when I notice there is this gray area, I don't push; I set back myself, and I don't. I only interact to support whatever the person needs in the moment.” 

Okay. So maybe less about someone who's coming to you professionally, but you have a voice in the world around what not to do, what to do. So, is there anything you want to say about whether repair is difficult? 

I think, as happiness is, it's a choice. Happiness doesn't arrive magically into someone's life. It's a choice moment by moment. What makes one person happy, whether it's choosing the right partner, eating right, avoid certain things that make one unhappy. But overall, I believe in choices. So if someone decides that whatever the other person did is so devastating that they don't want to put in the work, it's a choice.

How many times have I seen even an extended family where he's living with his wife, who he built an empire, a huge business, but actually loves another woman? And this triangle dynamic is visible to everyone in the family. 

Children are witnessing that they're being raised with a dysfunctional understanding of a relationship because the mother is with someone else. When father's not there, father is with someone. It just creates confusion for everyone involved. And so eventually that other person said by you, not making a choice. You make a choice, which is to stay in that relationship until he decides, and they're still together many 40 years later. So I would encourage people who are listening to sit down or not, or walk, but make a choice. So if the rapture happened and you choose to work on it, give it a timeline of all in for one year to work on the repair. And if it doesn't feel right, and if I don't feel it's working out, then I'm leaving after one year or two years or whatever the timeline is. 

That gives the nervous system, at least from my perspective, some guidance. Because of the uncertainty, no choice. The ambivalence is messy, eating us up. 

It's eating us up. And it is also unclear. And yet we're still deciding. Like, we can perhaps even feel like we're hiding behind indecision, but we're still deciding. I like how practical and honest you're voicing this, that if we really look at all of these things are choice points. 

Yes. And it also takes up a lot of energy not deciding. So if I have 24 hours in a day, out of which half I sleep, and then eight hours work, there are four hours of sort of. And those four hours are ambivalence and dragging one down; it's way too much energy. 

Most people are fluctuating or ping-ponging, going back and forth. It is a lot of energy. 

It could also be manipulating tactics. Oh, I didn't decide. So show me who you are, and you know you need to work harder. But this is a two-way relationship. 

Yes. Okay, fabulous. So it sounds like, again, it's a wake-up call. Your voice from the other side, really, if we're speaking to people who are in a relationship around caution and what to be like. There are grave consequences to not having these tough conversations, not having agreements, not negotiating, not bringing needs forth, and not having self-integrity around where one's limits are and making decisions around that. 

And agreements, too. 

And agreements. 

Most importantly, agreements. Because 

and says, “I did this. And then. And so they, a couple, start to work out, and then six months later, that happens again and again. And so, eventually, that person who is unfaithful also needs to make a decision not to drag the person who is not accepting that dynamic. So it's an honest conversation, and it's so tough to be honest with oneself, too. It's not just to be honest with another person.” 

Yes. 

Like, I love this person so much, but I, I can live without that. 

Yes. I'm sure. I'm guessing that from your experience, you get a lot of hindsight 20. Right. You hear a lot of stories. 

That's why I wrote the book. In those moments of sitting with the client, I get those insights. Yes. Sitting. 

Yes. Can you speak to, based on that vantage point, any early subtle signs of relationship drifting towards disconnection versus really stabilizing and investing in the strength of the bond? I mean, are you able to have any subtle signs that you would tell people to be mindful of? 

Yeah, 

 How did the other relationship end? If you're a man who is about to marry a woman or fell in love with a woman who has a child from another marriage, who then she filed a restraining order against the father and now the child is never able to see that father and she moved to a different area and you listen to it and maybe even meet the other father and see maybe it wasn't. What happened is the same thing that happened to that client when they knew each other for only two months: she got pregnant, and then the green card, and then the same DVRO, same two children now from two fathers being cut off. And maybe that's her picker, who is which is broken, picking the same type. 

Of men for the family. Right. 

The yes. So,

I don't want to generalize because there are exceptions. Most likely, it will repeat itself. If someone leaves a pregnant wife for another woman, that other woman needs to know when she gets pregnant, that's when he leaves. Too much responsibility. It's not about the woman, it's about the character. 

Okay, so early signs, like you're saying, it's not always predictive, but there can be a lot gleaned from who this person is. How have they shown up in the past? 

And

Okay, I know we're winding down here. Any communication practices that you like to emphasize that promote stability versus escalation or dysregulation and disagreements in relationships. 

As an attorney, I always advise my clients to run their tone meter by me or even AI if they don't want to pay me to make sure whatever they write can be used against them. Not to use accusatory language, not to use blamey language, and not to involve the children. And I learned that when I was 20. To always use I. Start the sentence with I and then, from there, keep yourself in your lane. So I feel when you say that hurt because instead of you being an asshole. Don't talk to me like that. 

Yes, and a lot of people have the inclination. It's so human to want to point to the thing that hurts and say, I feel that you. You know. But I think what you're saying is not so much the I language, but it's the revealing of here's my experience relating or with that interaction, here's what happened to me, or here's where I am at, and more or less trying to make that visible. Even if you know, depending on some vulnerability, but also just the acknowledgment. Go ahead. 

Another tip I was thinking of is to 

How insulting will it get you to that? Right. If I insult the other person, most likely they're going to be defensive and insult me back. 

Yes, yes. 

or from that sentence. I know it's hard, especially when lots of things are at stake at the moment, but it's very effective. 

Yes, I would agree. It's giving an opportunity to almost reverse-engineer and really show up for the thing you're trying to create. It's like, we expect our partner to mitigate all these, like verbal accusations, and still stay curious and try to understand what you're needing and then decode that and like get it. It's like it's not very clear. Right. If we're attacking that, we want them to really understand what they're hurting. Like, it does not typically work that way that people are going to respond to what you're saying in your delivery. 

Exactly. 

You're saying tone. Okay, great. Okay, wonderful. Well, is there anything else that you want to mention that are keys or tips that maybe someone listening can hear from you that could help shift dynamics in their current relationship? 

We live once, either all in or out. I don't, I don't. I don't think it's worth spending the energy on. I don't know, maybe it's too much energy. 

Yes. Okay. Thank you, Diana. And then I wanted to ask you, in your line of work, I remember interviewing an attorney, and they were promoting. If you're thinking, you're contemplating dissolving your relationship or marriage, getting a divorce, we're looking for a collaborative attorney, like she was saying. I think if it only takes one to get aggressive, like if both people have an attorney or a lawyer. What are your thoughts on that? 

It is always better to be kind. It pays out long-term. So much more. Whatever label we put on it, mediation, collaborative divorce, or amicable divorce, kindness goes very far, as the Dalai Lama said. And sometimes the other side is very aggressive. That happens. 

Yeah. 

I don't promote aggressiveness. I promote persuasiveness because I don't think aggression is effective. It's an emotional state of mind. Not a persuasive, winning type. Judges don't like that. I noticed. I tried. 

Okay. 

I tried in a mock trial, not in front of the real judge, and it didn't go so well. I dropped that. Don't have ego about it not working out. I've seen other lawyers being aggressive. Didn't work for them either. But clients love that. You know, clients who watch movies and TV, they say to me, Diana, I want you to be aggressive. And I say, no, I'm not going to. I'm going to be persuasive. And if you want someone aggressive, go to Mr. Smith next door, not me. 

So it sounds like in the court or with the judge or just even the bigger system, it will be discrediting. 

Or somehow shows that someone cannot regulate their emotions. It's like a toddler, 4-year-old, 5-year-old who doesn't get their way and then pounds and behaves aggressively. It's just legal bullying. Nothing else. 

Yeah. And if you're talking about. Or we're talking about the bigger system and the integrity and being persuasive, that there's. It's almost like. I don't know if this fits, but it's almost as if I know my integrity and I'm operating and. Not that I'm not open to feedback, but it's. I'm not so reactive. I'm much more grounded. I'm much more centered. 

Oh, yes. So when someone decides on the spot, let's say high stake trial decision needs to be made and they don't get their way, something the judge said they don't like. And if they get aggressive, I think I'm actually happy because their state of mind is blurred, their emotions. So it's clouded. 

Yeah, yeah. 

And I. 

They're less resourced. There are fewer. 

Yeah, they're less. They look less in control. 

Okay. Wonderful. All right. Well, Diana, I'm sure you can point people towards how, if they're interested in learning more. What would you like to share? 

Well, I have a YouTube channel called Divorce Like a Boss with Diana. Empowering people with knowledge, not legal advice. I have a book that you can see here, also on Amazon, Divorce Like a Boss, and Good Together, and once you Google it, you will find me everywhere you can schedule a consultation. There are links everywhere, and this is my website, romanovlaw.com. And also my Facebook page www.facebook.com/FamilyLawCalifornia.

Excellent. Now, can you have a consultation with someone who's not in California, or how does that work? 

I will not be able to give legal advice outside of California. 

Okay. So those in California can hit you up and try to get your counsel, and then, for just education, can visit your YouTube, get your book, and your insight. 

Yes. 

Excellent. Well, thank you for joining us. 

Thank you for having me, and have a good day.