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Is true healing after infidelity really possible? When trust is shattered by betrayal, the pain often feels insurmountable—turning love and certainty into confusion, grief, and self-doubt. The world seems to shift on its axis, leaving many to quietly question whether relationships can ever fully recover or whether individuals can truly reclaim safety and a sense of self after such a rupture.

In this episode, listeners will discover compassionate guidance for facing the aftermath of intimate betrayal and pathways toward real healing. The conversation explores why facing uncomfortable truths is a necessary starting point, what it means to rebuild safety and internal clarity, and how to find empowerment amidst pressure from others and oneself. Moving through foundational steps and the common phases of recovery, this episode offers both validation and tools for anyone unsure of what comes next—reminding listeners that, with intentional effort, hope and growth are within reach.

Tammy Gustafson, MA, LPC, is a trauma-informed licensed professional counselor, coach, and speaker with over fifteen years of experience. She holds a master’s degree in counseling and is the founder and CEO of Betrayal Healing and LiveFree Counseling. She is the bestselling author of Broken to Brave: Your Courageous Act of Healing After Intimate Betrayal, and she hosts the annual Betrayal Healing Conference, an international gathering of hope and expert guidance.

Episode Highlights

03:48 The unique pain of intimate betrayal and the shattering of trust.

06:17 Navigating uncertainty: Deciding whether to stay or leave after betrayal.

10:07 The necessity and process of full disclosure in healing betrayal.

14:34 Childhood roots and the myths around blame in infidelity.

16:37 Ownership and the importance of responsibility.

22:27 Key foundations of repair: Full ownership and avoiding defensiveness.

24:56 Expressing emotions and empowering the betrayed partner.

28:14 Grieving, acceptance, and the importance of safety in the healing process.

31:51 The four phases of betrayal recovery.

35:30 Outcomes after betrayal and the possibility of growth.

37:10 Indicators of healing: Rebuilding trust and recognizing positive change.

40:07 Sustaining recovery: Shifting needs, integrity, and the journey toward growth.

Your Checklist of Actions to Take

• Allow Time for Clarity: Resist immediate pressure to decide whether to stay or leave; give yourself space to grieve and process before making big decisions.
• Seek Full Disclosure: Insist on obtaining the full truth about the betrayal, ideally with the support of a therapist who specializes in betrayal trauma.
• Own Your Emotions: Permit yourself to experience and express all feelings—including sadness and anger—throughout the healing process.
• Establish Safety: Ask yourself, “What do I need to feel safe?” and establish boundaries or environments that honor those needs.
• Expect 100% Ownership from the Betraying Partner: Require the partner who betrayed to take complete responsibility for both their actions and the impact on you.
• Look for Consistent Change: Observe for ongoing, consistent behavioral change and empathy from the betraying partner as indicators of healing.
• Consider Professional Support: Work with therapists individually and as a couple who are trained in betrayal and trauma to facilitate healthy communication and healing.
• Focus on Personal Growth: Prioritize your own healing, self-care, and post-traumatic growth, regardless of the relationship’s outcome.

Mentioned

Broken to Brave: Your Courageous Act of Healing After Intimate Betrayal (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book)

Shifting Criticism For Connected Communication (free relationship guide)

Connect with Tammy Gustafson

Website: tammygustafson.com

Instagram: instagram.com/tammylgustafson

Facebook: facebook.com/betrayalhealing 

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tammy-gustafson-lpc-4179aaa3/ 

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Episode Transcript

Tammy, thank you for joining us. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. 

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. 

Yeah, and you offer a lot to help people navigate the terrain of having rupture or experiencing a significant betrayal and then also giving some scaffolding around how to move from betrayal to more repair. 

So let's get a little bit from. 

You're around just what people maybe don't expect. I mean, people hear about it all the time: different forms of betrayal within an intimate relationship. But what would you like to say about what is getting activated and how it's so uniquely painful, this rupture and intimate relationship? 

Yeah, my focus is really on this intimate betrayal and the sexual betrayal. And there is something so core and so painful about that, and I focus a lot on helping the betrayed partner heal. 

And 

And so I think there's something very unique about that. A lot of times, there are months, years, even decades of hidden acting out by the betraying partner. And so from the get-go, a lot of times the person who's been betrayed has lived in a marriage or a relationship that they thought was going one way. They thought they knew the truth and the reality about the partner and about the connection. And then to find out years down the road that their reality was not the true reality of what was going on is very disorienting and very shattering. So it just hits at a core level. 

And 

So not only are they dealing with the healing of the interactions with their partner, but there's also this deep internal healing and shattering that happened as well. So it really makes it kind of a twofold, at least, healing process. 

Thank you for speaking to that; it can really highlight and really bring to the surface some deeper insecurities or things that have already been there, but also just the disorientation around what one thought was true and how it's almost like the world shifts on its axis and what was no longer is and just how to be with the shattering of all that. I think that's a term that I've heard many people use as well. 

Okay. 

So as we look at the intimate space and what is getting activated in this rupture, I think a lot of people, as you mentioned, are contending with: Is this salvageable or is this something we can, like, figure out how to come back from? Do you have any things that you help people identify to determine if repair or even healing is viable? 

You know, I think the first thing is actually to give it time, because you don't know for quite some time. You don't know. First of all, in the beginning, you probably don't even know the full truth. And so there's a whole process that needs to happen if the relationship has a chance to heal, and that's getting the full truth, what we call a full disclosure. Without that, the relationship does not have a foundation to heal. They may stay together, but 

So I think that's a big part. But even then, even when, even if somebody now has the full truth, there is still this big process of grieving and kind of going inside yourself and saying, is this something I want to stay? 

Do I want to stay? Is he or she who betrayed me, are they doing the work necessary to actually shift this and heal this and give me some sense of safety and security moving forward, or not? So it actually usually takes quite a bit of time. And I think the misunderstanding that probably most people have, and certainly even people who've gone through betrayal, probably have felt initially, is that if he ever cheats on me, I'm done, I'm out. That's a deal breaker. And that is such a valid line. The problem is, when you get there, all of a sudden, life feels a lot more complicated. And maybe now you have kids involved, maybe you now have a year, five years, 40 years with this individual that you've created a life and you're intertwined with. 

And so now wrestling through that. And a lot of times for betrayed partners, there's a lot of shame and feeling like they betrayed themselves for staying, when in reality, that is a totally normal part of the process. And so a lot of times what I tell my clients is, give it the time that you need. Like, if you know that you're done and you're out, by all means, like, you have every right. But if you're wrestling through that, maybe just take that constant question off the table of do I stay? Do I go? Do I stay? Do I go? Like, give it a little bit of time so that you can grieve and you can heal, and you can see if your partner is doing the work necessary to heal. 

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like there could be some self-imposed or just feeling like, what direction am I going to go in? Sustaining the uncertainty or the unknown can be difficult to tolerate in the midst of all this shattering and trauma. But I'm hearing you recommend giving yourself time. Don't put pressure on yourself to make a decision or to be trying to work towards something maybe you don't even know yet if you're aligned with. Is that right? 

Absolutely. But I'm also not in the camp of don't make any decisions for six or 12 months. I'm not in that time. I'm not in that camp either. 

Okay. 

Because I want her to have her power. And again, I work mainly with betrayed partners, mainly women who have been betrayed. I want her to have her power, and so she gets to learn to trust herself and trust her decisions and trust what she wants and needs, so she gets to make that call. So it's this really gray area. But unfortunately, a lot of that pressure to resolve and to stop this tension, part of it is in her. A lot is coming from the outside. There's a lot. If their partner is not doing good work, there's going to be a lot of pressure of, well, I just, I'm done, I'm not doing it anymore. Why don't you move on? Why can't we just move on and start over? And why can't you get over this? 

Or family or friends or people, if they're in a faith community, it's like, okay, well, what are you doing? Yeah, you're going to do like, are you better? Are you going to get out? You've got to get out. He's a scumbag, or you've got to stay in, and you've got to fight at all costs. There's all this pressure one way or the other to resolve this tension. And so for her, I am just writing when listening, who is going through this? She's going, you push all that out, and you get to connect with yourself because 

Right. So it's really this helping her connect with herself and feel empowered to make the decision that's best for her whenever she's ready to do that. 

And it sounds like it's an internal clarity that one can find ground in that empowerment and make a decision. Yeah, it's actually calling to mind some of the dynamics as you're talking about the family, community, friends; perhaps they've been observing things. As you said, there might be signs or things that have been happening along the way. And it's like people don't typically say anything or raise their hands. So if there's an opening, like there's a rupture. Oh, I didn't. I want to weigh in, or I want to let you know, like, or now's your opportunity, get out while you can. Like they try to speak, and I think from a protective and loving interest, but also it can add to that pressure. So, going back momentarily, I don't want to miss what you had said about full disclosure. 

I'm also aware that some people might be of the frame. I don't want to hurt my partner, or what they don't know won't hurt them. And it sounds like your sense of shared reality. And perhaps there's a way to do this disclosure that could be a bit safer than I'm imagining. There are different ways of doing this. 

Do you want to speak to that? Absolutely, there are a lot of different ways and a lot of different things. And ultimately, what it comes down to is that both parties need the full truth. They need the full reality. Now the one who was betrayed gets to make the call. How much? How many details, all of that. That it's very common for the betraying partner to say, well, I don't want to hurt her. It's too late for that. Like, if you didn't want to hurt her, and I say this with all respect, you didn't want to hurt her, then you wouldn't have done it in the first place. So you know, yeah. 

Handled that very differently, whatever was going on. 

So now 

And will it hurt? Absolutely, will it cause trauma? Very likely, but the only way for healing to happen within the relationship and for the one who did the betraying is for the full truth to come out. Now she can heal with or without that, but it's a lot harder. It is a lot harder trying to piece together your reality when it's not given to you. So for all parties involved, the full truth does need to come out. The best way is to work with a therapist who specializes in this area. They have to specialize in this. Otherwise, a lot of times, well-meaning therapists, the intensity is too much. They won't push enough for the truth. There are all sorts of things that get wrapped up very well-meaning. But this is a new one. This is a nuanced thing. 

Yes, I would endorse that for sure. 

Yes. And so finding somebody who can work with the one who did the betraying, ideally, to ride it out. A lot of this stuff happens, starts in childhood, and is present long before the relationship comes to be. And so working. 

When you say it starts in childhood, you're talking about maybe the withholding, the lying. Is that what you're referring to or not? What do you mean when you say it's? 

That's a great question. I would say the roots and the wounds of acting out and of using sexual acting out as a way to cope with life, those roots usually start in childhood. It usually starts with unmet needs and them feeling like they don't know how to handle life. They don't know how to handle big emotions. And somewhere along the way, they find that sexual acting out, pornography, sexting, whatever you want to, is a way that they can numb out those negative emotions for a time. And then what happens neurologically is that as that pattern is repeated, we're getting neurological pathways in the brain that tie negative emotions with some form of sexual acting out. And over time, that becomes a well-worn path. 

“And that is usually over the teenage years and early adulthood; that usually is in place long before the relationship comes to be. So this is one of those messages I'm so passionate about telling betrayed partners: this is not your fault.” A lot of times, there's that immediate message, externally and internally, that says, oh, I wasn't having enough sex with him. If I were more fun, if I had lost the 20 pounds, if my boobs were bigger, if my stomach were flatter, this wouldn't have happened. It actually is not your fault in any of those ways that those are not the things that cause this. And so it's just important to know the history, the neurology behind it, and the patterns that are already there. 

So one, so that the one who did the betraying can start to recognize that, take ownership, take responsibility, and heal that. And for the one who did the betraying or the one who was betrayed, to understand this truly was not your fault. This is on your partner. 

And I think this is really important. If I may mention, as you talked about, perhaps a practitioner who is not an expert in this arena may start to identify, right? Those unmet needs, maybe even the relational dynamic that was perhaps creating some disconnection for both partners, but the one that the betraying partner, what they chose to do with those unmet needs and the betrayal- that's the focus. So, to not start pivoting to relational dynamics too soon, because then it's not addressing the betrayal. Is that right? 

Oh, I so appreciate it. You said that 100% correct. 

Yeah. And then if you, for those who don't know the importance of this, full disclosure. Because when you're talking about the pain of it, and you're saying the injury already occurred. Right. So the disclosure is part of it being visible, but it happened. Right. So let's not forget that. But can you speak to the importance or how it's beneficial? One of the things that's coming up for me, if I put myself in the shoes of the betrayed partner and I'm hearing details about the betrayal that would be very difficult and painful to hear. It could also be extremely validating for things that I may have felt a spidey sense around or had some question about, maybe even felt lied to or gaslit around. Right. Like if I had probed or asked questions. And you're nodding. 

Absolutely, a hundred percent. And there is also no safety when there is that secrecy. Right. And so, what you're saying is so important because a lot of times there are some who have no idea. Some betrayed partners really have no idea, and their partner really hit everything. And then there are others that you're saying where it's like, okay, like, you kept on going on all these business trips that never felt right. I never felt comfortable with that partner at work that you were so close with. And there often is a lot of gaslighting of like, you're crazy, you're jealous, like, nothing's going on. And so then she starts to doubt herself. 

Right. 

And then she starts to feel that break with herself of, like, maybe I am crazy. Right. And then her foundation, she can't get that. So that, absolutely, what you're saying is, like, having the truth gives her that footing to go, okay, this is hard, and this is painful, but I'm like, yes, I knew it. 

Yes. 

And now I can put this together. And now I understand why you were cycling in anger all those times, but now I get it. 

Right. 

And so that is actually really helpful for her process too. 

Yeah, I know you're using the pronouns she and her. I know it was very, like, on point for you. And I do work with a lot of men, and I know that there are a lot of women who are engaging in betrayal. So I just want to say that it can be anyone who's experiencing this. 

Okay, can I piggyback on that person? 

Yes, please. 

Because I'm so glad you do. And I struggle with this all the time because it's my population. But I want to say to the men who are listening, who have been betrayed like, man, first of all, I'm sorry. And it is. There are so few resources that are specific to you that address men as the ones who were betrayed. And that is really an extra lonely place for men to be betrayed. And then to feel like everything they listen to, every book they read, they have to switch the pronoun in their brain. And I know that's hard, and I think the industry is starting to shift in that way, but I just want to validate. That's a really hard place to be. And your pain is just as valid as anybody else's. 

Thank you. I appreciate that. Maybe you and I, or I can see if there are some resources to put on the show notes for someone who. 

Wants to feel a little bit more. 

Specific to the male experience, if that's how they're identifying. Okay, so coming back to perhaps the elements of, or what is foundational for even starting on the path for healing and repair, you're talking about this full disclosure. Is there anything else before we go into? I know you have described four phases of the healing process. Before you walk that through or walk us through that, is there anything else that you want to mention that could be important to consider? 

I think there are a couple of foundational pieces for both sides. I think for the one who did the betraying, the full disclosure. And you have to be honest.

So the full truth. But the other thing is this idea of ownership. It is when, if we think about a marriage without betrayal, it's 50. We all know that two to tango. A hundred percent that all makes sense. Were there issues within the relationship? Absolutely. There are issues in every relationship. Right. But the moment somebody chooses not to stay in and work on those, there are a hundred thousand things you can do to work on the issues in the relationship. 

And the moment they decide to cross that line of the relationship, agreement, whatever that is for the two of you, that is a hundred percent on that person. And so that is a crucial step for the one who did the betraying: a hundred percent ownership not only of what that person did by crossing the line, but also of the impact that it had on the one that they betrayed. And where I see this as a huge stock point that will make or break the healing is if they only own that and go, it was absolutely on me, and I'm sorry. And your pain is valid, and I understand that. 

And I will sit here, and I will hear it, and I will take it in, and they drop those defenses, and they own what they did and what it caused, then so much healing can happen. But for those who don't do that, and the languaging will come out, well, it was- what was your part in this? Or you weren't having enough sex with me after the baby was born, or you're too angry at me, or I need to set boundaries with you now with any of that type of language that starts to come out; it really, it stops the whole healing process. So I think that is a crucial understanding piece. And a lot of the ones who did the betraying will need some help to get there because it's not easy. 

That was the thing I was thinking, because in my experience, people don't set out to have affairs. Right. It's not something they're like, 

Yes, I feel really good about this. This is what I wanted to do. 

And oftentimes these unmet needs, as you referred to, there's something that starts to satiate that need or feel like it starts to feel like a drink of water, that maybe they haven't gotten this need met. But it's the difficulty of coming and standing in that need and asking for the vulnerability of it being direct, having the courage and the bravery to have those difficult conversations, to work through some of those relational challenges to get those needs met. So it's almost like the shame, the hiding, and the indirectness can contribute to stepping outside of the marriage. So then you're saying, okay, part of the foundations of healing and repairs is to really take ownership. But that's like the very thing that they had difficulty doing. Is that right? 

Yes. And if the one who's betrayed, if they are sad and angry, which they will be, and when they have huge emotions and when these emotions are rapid cycling, which is a hundred percent normal, that is a wonderful opportunity for them to go back and start to heal. That initial thing of I don't want to deal with negative emotions. So now the person who did the betraying is going to have to learn to go back and to face that and to allow themselves to help their younger parts grow up and mature and heal. So for the betrayed partner, sometimes there's this feeling of, oh, well, I can't let him see my emotions because I don't want him to act out or whatnot. Actually, what you need to do is you need to stand in your own shoes. You need to heal. 

You do need to verbalize what's going on. As long as he is safe. 

Right. 

But you do need to do that, and you are not causing a problem in the healing process. You are actually giving him one, allowing him to grow up that part and to heal that part of him, because he needs to if he's going to be healthy. And two. 

Or she. 

Or she. Thank you. 

Yeah, yeah. 

No, I know. 

So you're speaking your language. I get it. I'm just. 

Yes. Thank you for catching it. I appreciate. 

Yeah. 

But that's really important. That's a really important process, so. 

Which is difficult to express. I mean, if we're going to speak more of the heterosexual pronouns and the female being the betrayed partner, stereotypically, a lot of women have difficulty standing and expressing anger. Not again, I'm speaking. These are older stereotypes. But I do, because there's a lot of, I think, cultural messaging around not being a bitch and like all these things. But I think that's totally so changing. So I acknowledge what I'm saying. It's not fully accurate, but regardless of the person being in a place of experiencing and expressing the pain and the distress and the range of emotions, I do think there are constructive ways of doing it and not watering it down. 

But I think this is where getting some facilitation is helpful from somebody who's an expert or trained; it kind of sounds like getting support for the couple dynamic to negotiate this rupture. And are there the bearings for the possibility of healing? But also, perhaps individual support for the betraying partner could be really important. 

Yeah, I would agree. And I think for the one who was betrayed, some of the foundational things the person needs. It's important to step into your power. It's important to step into your voice. It's also important to let yourself grieve. The grieving process really is the healing process, and that includes both sadness and anger. And as much as we would love to, like, jump over all that and just go, I choose to accept. I choose acceptance. That, unfortunately, is not how it works. The acceptance piece is a byproduct of all the other deep healing work of acknowledging your emotions, naming them, setting boundaries, and deciding for yourself. Kind of like we talked early on, like, connecting with yourself and going, what do I want and need? 

Because maybe I haven't had a voice, or maybe I have, but either way, it's important for you now in this critical place of shattering for you to really be gentle with yourself and to hone in on what you need to heal. And a critical place to focus is this question of, what do I need to feel safe? 

it's this question, this foundational question of what do I need to feel safe? Do I need to not talk about things without a counselor's presence? Or you're like, ” Nope, I need to have my voice. I need to talk about it right now. Do I need the one who? 

Your partner- do I need him or her out of the house so that I can regain some sense of safety? Because I never thought this person was capable of this. Like, I don't even know who you are. Right. Or maybe you're like, if my partner's out of the house, I feel less safe because I don't know what they're doing. So there's no one right way, which I think is crucial. There's no one right way. And what's most important is for you to connect with yourself and go, what do I need? What do I need to feel safe right now and then take that next step? 

Thank you for saying that, Tammy. It occurs to me, sometimes, even in a heterosexual relationship, sometimes the female can be a bit more expressive and loud per se, in her voice. And maybe there's the nice guy syndrome for the guy. But even in that vocalizing, it still perhaps isn't connected to the underlying need of vulnerability and safety. So regardless of how things manifest, to have that real contact, because sometimes, a lot of times it's fear that's driving some of those critical impulses and maybe even what could look attacking, but to have this genuine contact, making room for these sad, you know, attachment needs and longings and core emotions, which takes time to make contact with if we're not used to doing it, and then making room for there to be process and support. 

“Okay, do you want to describe the four stages that you work within your framework?” 

“Yeah, absolutely.” 

“Does it fit here?” 

“Yes. I think it does fit because we've had what we've talked about has been phase one or two. And so these phases are really, again, I'm looking through the lens of the betrayed partner and helping him or her heal and walk through this path.” And it's really kind of outlining, hey, here's what's next. Like, here's what's normal. Because while there's no one right way to heal, there's no one fine line you have to follow. What we do know is that there are patterns to healing. 

Yes, yes. 

And there's a general direction of, like, this is the direction you want to go, and here are some guideposts along the way. And my gosh, when you're in the middle of this, and you don't know which way is up or down, forward or backwards. So my heart with this was to really help provide some structure, to provide some like, okay, here's where I'm at. Oh my gosh, this is normal. Oh, I don't need to worry about that yet, type of thing. So phase one is when that discovery or disclosure happens, and it's real. That's the initial shattering, and that is the whole kind of focus of that. “Phase one is to get the truth like we've been talking about, with full disclosure.” 

“And then phase two, kind of the marker between the two, is either when the betrayed partner has the full truth, or they know that their partner will not give them the full truth. And then that has to become the foundation that they stand on to move forward, which is harder and more painful, but it is possible. And then phase two is this long, messy middle. And this is what we're talking about: finding your voice and setting your boundaries and grieving and asking what you need.” And there's all of this wrestling: is my partner going to do the work to get sober or to stop the affair? Are they going to do the work not just to stop the acting-out behaviors, but also that deeper work that has to happen, rebuild the possibility for there to be safety again? 

And so that is a long, painful process. “That phase two in phase three kind of happens organically.” And that's where the direction of the relationship is becoming clear, based on the dynamics and what's happened. So, and there's really three paths that this can take. “One is kind of reconciliation or healing as a couple.” “One is divorce or breaking up, long-term separation.” But there's also this third path that I don't feel we talk enough about, which I think a lot of People end up in. And that's what I call the “roommates.” And that's where the one who did the betraying is not fully doing the work. But the betrayed partner doesn't want to leave. And there are a lot of really valid reasons why. 

A lot of times it's kids, or it's finances or that sort of thing, but there becomes this really painful, messy piece of the one who did the betraying is doing just enough to keep the partner in. 

Yes. 

Where there isn't safety, there really isn't reconciliation. But having said that, while this is one I'm most concerned about, you can thrive in this when you're staying with your partner who's not doing great work. But it takes a lot of healthy detachment. “So there's kind of a whole process you have to go through to be able to stay and thrive and live your best life.” Live as the best of life as you can. In this scenario, it is possible, but it's difficult. And then phase four is where all betrayed partners come back together. And it kind of stops being the focus, stops being about the relationship or about the partner or ex-partner. And there's this organic kind of moment that happens where clients will walk to my office, and they're like, I need to heal. I need to focus on myself. I need to focus on me and my healing now. And this is where they kind of look around and kind of around the rubble that they have found themselves in by no fault of their own and start to pick up those pieces and go, okay, I want stability again in life. I want financial stability. What are the steps I need to take to do that? I've gained 20 to 50 pounds in this process, and I don't feel good in my own body. So how do I start learning to love myself again? How do I start to move towards health again? Or is there a divorce? Looking for like, okay, maybe I'm ready for a new relationship and. But I want to make sure that I'm in a healthy place. 

And so it's those steps and this; it's really, you know, in our psychological terminology, would be the post-traumatic growth. But what I can tell you is that it is absolutely possible to heal both parties. It's not only possible to heal, but it's possible to come out of this a stronger and healthier version of you than you ever have. And so, as we're talking about all the pain and we're talking about all the shattering, all of that is true. And that's not the end of the story. It does not have to be the end of the story. Marriages and relationships can also heal from this. It takes a lot of work, and it takes a lot longer than you ever wanted it to take. But it is possible for marriages to better on the other side of relationships, to better on the other side. 

But you have to do the deep work of healing. 

Thank you for speaking to that. Because what is possible and you're being. 

So clearly. 

Involved in this arena, right, this terrain, like you can speak about what's possible and what's available. And it's kind of thinking about the long game. And while we might not know which path we're taking, it sounds like any of the paths have an opportunity for growth, for healing, for evolution, and both individually and relationally that require a lot of work, and that it's worth it that there's chaos. I mean, this, I think you talk about, when you talk about triggers, is what's getting activated; it's a spotlight, not a setback. Right. And so I think that this is in its most intense form, but turning towards the work can have great pay, great dividends. 

“Okay, I know we don't have a ton of time, but I want to ask you from your vantage point: can you give people some description around what it can look like that the betraying partner has done enough work, the indications that the betrayed partner can start to feel? I mean, this is an individual decision. I appreciate, but just more generally, that there is trust or there's enough safety to start trusting again. Like, what are some of the things that you would say help? Yeah, indicate.” 

“Love that question. So glad you asked it. So the main thing, first of all, is the full truth. Keep coming back to that, right? And stopping the acting-out behavior, whatever it is, that is first and foremost. But that's not the finish line. That's the starting line.”

Right. 

And so for health, for safety, for trust to be rebuilt, there has to be a lot going back to that ownership, but also a lot of humility and care for your partner. 

for this empathy of really seeing life from her perspective or his perspective. Whoever was betrayed, right? But getting into their shoes and recognizing, like, oh, it makes sense, like, it makes sense why you are so hurt, it makes sense. And when they're coming at you, either with their sadness or their anger or their needing space from you, being able to again get in their shoes and go, okay, that makes sense. Like, what can I do? How can I not? What can I do to put my healing on you? But going like, hey, I am here. Whatever you need. 

And so there is this openness and this kindness that, when that true, deeper work of healing is happening, the betrayed partner feels. Now, they may not verbalize it to you, but they feel it when they go, like, huh. In the past, my partner would have gotten really angry at me when I said this, but now they sat there. Or, huh, in the past, they would have fought me and been, they would have been defensive when I got home late from work; they would have been really defensive. Oh, was this? And now they're calling me ahead of time, and they're saying, hey, I just want you to know, like, I'm on my way, you know? And so it's those moments, and I tell my clients, it's those moments where you go, like, huh. That's different. Like, that feels good. 

Betrayal partners notice this. Yes, they notice it, and they notice it in their soul. And so, continuing to do that, trust is rebuilt. First of all, there has to be safety. But the one who did the betraying, first of all, it's their responsibility to rebuild trust. 

And so for that, you need to be consistent over a long period of time. 

And it pedals with your word. 

Yes, absolutely. And when you mess up, you own it. Yeah, that sort of thing. So those are the things that lay the foundation that, slowly but surely, the betrayed partner is going to see and feel. And there's actually this moment, I call it the deer in the headlights moment, where the one who did the betraying has done enough work and has been safe and consistent long enough that betrayed partners will walk into my office, and they're like. Their eyes are big, and they're like, I think it's time for me to lean back in. And it is a terrifying moment because they have. They have had to, like, armor up and protect themselves and their boundaries. But it's like they have seen enough now where they're like, I think it's safe enough.

And so that is a really tender place. And I want to honor that for both parties involved. And for the one who did the betraying, you just hold steady. You just keep holding steady with kindness and empathy and understanding and just keep doing what you're doing. And for the betrayed partner, when they are turning back in, just know, like, it's totally normal to feel scared, and you can titrate. You know, you put your toe in the water and see how they do. And then if. If you're like, ” Oh, okay, they did good. That was still good. Okay, then maybe put your foot in the water. 

Or if you put your foot in the water and things don't go well, you can be like, okay, stepping back. 

We've got more work to do. 

We have more work to do. Yep. So it is a very tender process, but it's a very beautiful process when a couple is at the place where they are starting to move towards each other and heal. 

Thank you for describing that. And it also just feels like such a direct process to hold space. It asks to suspend a lot of the other things that are also true, but to really hold space, to be present for another, for the one, the injured, betrayed partner. That while it might seem the scariest or the thing that's gonna, what we wanna avoid, it actually could be the most direct, like, direct route toward healing. I'm wondering, just lastly here, do you also feel an indication of healing is when the person who had engaged in betrayal starts to take care of their needs differently? Like that, they will raise their hand and say, I need you. And I know that might be complicated in this dynamic, but they're gonna handle their unmet needs differently. You're nodding. 

Absolutely. But let's be clear. 

No, not at all. But the seat can. There's a way in which that partner is handling themselves differently. 

Totally. And one thing that I think is crucial, and I hadn't mentioned this before, but in the beginning, a lot of times the one who did the betraying starts to work recovery as like, I just, she's blowing up, or he's blowing up. And I want things to calm down. And so I'm going to stop, and I'm going to lean in. But it can't stay there, where the focus is on the fact that there has to be this shift at some point into I want to heal because that is the person I want to be. Yes. Like, I want to be a person who is taking responsibility for my past and my actions. I want to be a person of integrity. I want to be safe for my partner, whether he or she leaves me or not. I want to be a safe person. 

And so now the whole focus shifts towards their own integrity, health, and well-being. And that's where, when that's an indication of what you're talking about, of like when they start to heal and deal with their needs more healthily, that's that move towards integrity. And that is a beautiful sign and a beautiful shift. 

Thank you, Tammy. I'm so grateful you're holding the hands of people who are negotiating this so very painful process. And especially you've written a book. Tell us about the book you wrote to help people get oriented here. 

Yeah. The book is called Broken to Brave: Your Courageous Act of Healing After Intimate Betrayal. And so it's specifically for betrayed partners walking through those four phases. It is mainly focused on pronouns. I do use she, just a heads up. But it's really my goal to give my heart for it is I wanted to reach through those pages and catch betrayed partners in all of the pain and all of the confusion. I want to help them get to their feet. I want to bring clarity, strength, empowerment, guidance, and direction to them so they can get on their feet faster and move through this process more smoothly. There's really nothing smooth about the partnership, about the process, but as smoothly as possible, and get to that place of growth. 

And so part of this, as I said, is just providing some of those guideposts along the way and just really going, you can do this, and you have great worth and value, and you get to stand up for yourself and find yourself and empower. So that is kind of my heart and soul. I wrote it as if I were sitting across the table and at a coffee shop having a long conversation with a betrayed partner. That's how I wrote it, as just kind of a companion to come alongside. So that's my heart and soul for the book. 

Thank you. I'll put the link to that book on today's show notes: Is there anything you want to mention about how people can connect with you or follow you? 

Yeah, probably the best way is my website, tammygustafson.com, and “I just want to say to all those who are listening, if this is your story, whether you were the one who betrayed or did the betraying, like there is healing, like you can heal. There is a good life ahead. But keep going. Do the deep work. Do the healing. You can do it.” 

Thank you. I appreciate all that you shared here today. 

Well, thanks so much for having me.