ERP 062: “Just Friends.” Is It Really Possible?
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Hi, thank you for joining me today. Today’s episode we are talking about platonic relationships. This is platonic relationships with someone that you have sexual or romantic potential with, or have history with. The title of this episode is Just Friends – Is It Really Possible?
So I’m going to address two different angles here because I have questions come from people around “Can men and women really just be friends?” and that’s obviously in the context of heterosexual relationships, but again, we’re talking about when you’re in relationship with someone that you might have romantic or sexual potential with, is it possible really just to be friends? And the other angle that I’m going to be addressing in this episode today is if you are trying to pursue or consider having a friendship with an ex?
I have a lot of people who have asked me questions around negotiating friendships with an ex, and that can be really complicated, so I have some different tips and stories to share with you today. While these topics are in my mind very similar, there is obviously some very big differences. So just the general question around “Can we just be friends?” I think has a lot to do with each person in the relationship. So this would be a friendship, just partner one and partner two, both just have the same intention of just being friends. So often one person has feelings, and the other person doesn’t – in the sense of romantic, sexual feelings. This is where we kind of think of “We’re in the friend zone/friend box”, so we might have this unrequited love or hope of developing a relationship with this person, but if we’re in the friend zone that may never come to be.
A lot of this comes down to how honest you’re being with yourself and what’s your intention. I read an article – this was years and years ago – and it was kind of addressing this topic, and I think it was in one of the psychology magazines that I’d get; unfortunately I don’t have the reference on the top of my head, I won’t be able to put it on the show notes, but it was basically from research that yes, men and women can be friends, and there is a developmental process to it, meaning that if you are heterosexual and men and women can they be friends, most likely there is some type of attraction. Because you want to be attracted your friends even, and so you might have this likability, this warmth, this regard, and if there’s someone that is remotely attractive you might have some of those feelings. But that’s actually natural, that’s actually normal, that’s actually really healthy. And truth be told, you can move through your day, move through your week, move through your month and year and have many different feelings of attraction for many different people, because you’re going to feel acknowledgment of people’s beauty, of people’s many different characteristics. I can appreciate that, and I can feel my own inner response to that, right? That means you’re alive, and that’s your natural vitality speaking through you; it’s just what you choose to do about it, is the big difference maker here.
What this then means is if both people are having some level of attraction for each other but they’re not interested in relationship – let’s say they’re in relationship already, or they’ve just for whatever reason made the decision that they don’t want to proceed and explore romantic relationship with this particular person. Well, you have to get to a point of maybe even communicating and talking about it, and just a real recognition that this is never going to develop into anything serious or romantic, or even sexual. So there’s a real explicit naming, and really creating a boundary if you will, that this isn’t going to go anywhere.
And sometimes this doesn’t need to be talked about, like if one person’s married or both people are married, and there’s really clear, congruent behavior. Now, I’m not talking about where affairs start happening; I’ll talk about that in a moment, where not so much affairs, but how when the boundaries are not clear and we make things okay, that we start blurring the lines, and our intention is a little confusing, like “Who is this person and what kind of relationship am I investing in?” If that’s fuzzy, then that’s fuzzy and that’s going to be a whole world of different messiness. And if you’re in a monogamous relationship and you’re blurring the lines, for sure that’s going to get super confusing. So I’m talking about just the pure and simple, you’ve made a decision, you’re in a committed, monogamous relationship, be it marriage or partnership, and you’re wanting to have friendship outside of that relationship – is that possible? So what I’m trying to get at with this study is they’re saying yes, it is absolutely possible, but there’s going to be a shifting. You know, there’s a newness in any relationship; you’re going to have some level of being enamored, and that was what I was saying earlier, feeling attracted to someone. You’re going to like them, you’re going to want to see all the cool things about them, and the possibilities, and you’re going to feel a sense of excitement about getting to know someone new, so there is that some level of attractedness, and there could be no sexual feelings and not at all, but even if there is, still totally cool. And what you want to do is just be really clear about your decision about being in your primary relationship, so that when you’re feeling whatever levels of admiration, likability, even maybe some attraction towards this other person, that it doesn’t mean anything.
People get caught up around this ‘means something’, right? And I think where it gets really tricky is that person who is a friend is maybe meeting a need that has not been met in the primary relationship. So there is a longing, let’s say in your marriage, and then you’re having this outside person, this friend really satiate and kind of nurture that need that hasn’t been met. So that’s where you want to bring that conversation, bring that awareness, that noticing back to your primary relationship, and that is deep, really beautiful work, and most of us are afraid to have that conversation. So again, if you’re interested in some support around, there’s a lot I can say, but just in these limited half an hour podcasts there’s only so much I can really speak to. But if you’re interested in negotiating these waters, please feel free to reach out to me. I’d love to have a conversation with you, see if I might be able to be of support.
So either you bring it back to your primary relationship or you just say “Hey, you know what? This is normal, this is natural, and it is what it is, it’s not gonna go anywhere. I can see qualities about you, I can really acknowledge how amazing you are, and that’s what it is. It’s not like I’m gonna feed that, it’s not like I’m gonna invest in it any further”, because again, it’s like you want to have the intention and your congruency with your behavior. I’m not gonna go out and have candlelight dinners with a friend and start opening up and deepening in my emotional intimacy, talking about things with someone – a guy friend of mine – that I don’t even talk to about with my husband. Behaviorally, if I just looked at what I’m doing, I’d be investing in more of a romantic relationship with someone. So I want to be clear and in my integrity about what’s my intention, and there’s going to be some boundaries there.
So with this article basically saying you’re going to get to a point where you’re going to maybe feel that initial excitement, you’re going to feel that initial attraction, whether or not it’s sexual or not, but you’re going to have that kind of excitement there, and then at some point you’re going to have to just really be clear about what the relationship is, and that has largely to do with what’s the purpose of the relationship. I want to underscore that: What’s the purpose of the relationship? And this is where I’ll go into the second topic in just a moment, but is the purpose of the relationship to nurture an unmet need – which again I’m going to reiterate, that’s going to be super confusing – or is it “No, I have a similar interest with this person, we have a hobby that we enjoy and we’re just friends. It’s a really nice friendship.”
You both want to have the similar purpose, and sometimes unfortunately – I don’t think this is something most people are aware of – we have all these reasons that we keep people in our lives that we’re not entirely honest with ourselves about, or really even fully conscious of; it’s sometimes happening unconsciously. People will appreciate the attention, right? And this is where maybe one person has unrequited feelings, like one person really likes the other, and the other person’s like “No, we’re just friends”, and maybe is overlooking the emotion that they’re picking up from the other person.
A friend of mine, I remember she was kind of going through something like this where she had a friend – she’s been married, and was married at the time that this happened – and they had a shared interest, a common interest around one of their hobbies, and it was a really nice friendship, they really enjoyed talking and collaborating on ideas that they both had interest in. Well, I remember her talking to me and she was like “You know, he kind of uses these little nicknames, and he kind of makes little comments here and there…” Sometimes some of this stuff can be so subtle that it’s hard to name it, to address it, because you don’t want to feel like you’re flattering yourself that this person might actually like you or have feelings for you. If the topic hasn’t been broached, then it’s sometimes difficult to bring that up. So she kind of just was gathering information; she really had regard for this guy and really thought he was a great person, and it just started to amplify and she was like “I have to say something to him, this feels inappropriate. I am not interested in this person. I’m not going to have an affair. I might appreciate certain qualities about this person. But I’m not even comfortable being friends with this person because of the way that they feel for me.”
To my point, somewhere along the line you might have to have a conversation and being really honest, because one person has feelings and the other person doesn’t, it’s probably not going to be a good setup for anyone, unless that person can really shift and really see that person differently and shift their emotions. For most people, that’s pretty difficult. Once you have kind of gone into that romantic, and really assign someone these sexual/romantic feelings, sometimes that’s really hard to just turn off, right? But if there’s real clarity and you can set boundaries, it’s possible you can shift that. And I think it’s easier when both people don’t have the intention of creating something more romantic or sexual.
But I think it’s particularly hard when one person is interested and the other one is not, that’s where it gets complicated. Because we can confuse ourselves. We can talk ourselves into thinking “No, I’m good. I totally get it, I’m not really that interested, but…” It’s kind of our hope, we don’t want to lose connection with the person we have feelings for. But if we’re not honest with ourselves, somewhere along the line it’s usually a big setup for pain.
Very loosely related, but it reminds me of a story. It’s about 2006 and I am dating my now husband, and we had been hanging out, I think we had gone to dinner, and he was suggesting “Let’s go to this party. I got this invite, and I think it would be fun.” So I was like “That sounds great!” At the time we lived in the San Francisco Bay Area, we were in the South Bay and I think we had to travel about 15-20 minutes South. So we were chatting it up on the way down there, and I was like “So where are we going, who is this person?” and he was like “I don’t really know her that well, I’ve just met her. She bought a lamp from me on Craigslist.” I’m like “Oh gosh, that’s random.” And he said “Yeah, we had a nice exchange and she seems really friendly, and she invited us to this party”, and I was like “Oh, cool. I was just open-minded and just thought “Okay, she must be a really great person.”
So we arrive, and I think he had to call her to get the actual specific; it was a complex, so I don’t know if we needed to get let it. Anyway, we make our way up to the door, and she opens up the door and she’s got this excited look. She looks at Reid and then she looks at me, and it’s like her face goes white. She looked shocked, and she tried to collect herself and is gracious and invites us in, and immediately she runs and gathers two of her friends – obviously you can tell this is a little younger, uhm… Anyway. So she grabs a couple of her friends and she goes into this back room, and it just seems like a little bit chaotic and dramatic, and I was like “What’s going on?” and I finally realize, I’m like “Oh, I think she thought this was potentially a date thing with Reid, and he just was oblivious.”
So I think we were trying to be nice and we stayed and we hung out for a while, but I think she had been crying and she came back out, and it was so awkward. So, like I said, I think we stayed for 20-30 minutes, just talked to a few people and then we left. I think it was just a little bit of a younger crowd than where we were at. But anyway, we were walking back to the car, I’m like “Oh my gosh, did you not tell her you had a girlfriend? What happened?” and he was like “It didn’t even occur to me.” You know, we were a lot younger then. So I was like “Well, it’s kind of nice when you’re kind of of the same age, it’s just a nice thing to give somebody a clue that you’re not available if you feel like you’re kind of in the neighborhood of potentiality, right? That’s kind of what this podcast is about, it’s about “Can you be friends with somebody that you may have potential with?” and it’s kind of negotiating this territory of like “What’s your intention? What are you wanting?”, all of these things. So obviously my husband wasn’t interested – he wasn’t my husband then. So now I’m like, it’s just a nice thing to let someone know, at some point – you don’t have to blurt it out right away, like “My girlfriend and I…” or “My wife and I…”, but just at some point, if you’re actually having a good conversation, to interject that you’re in relationship so there’s clarity. He’s like “Oh my gosh, I totally get it now.”
You know, he felt bad, and I felt bad, because I just totally get how you meet somebody really wonderful and you get hopeful… So if you just fast-forward this, how complicated that… This was just one interaction. So if you fast-forward and you actually develop a more meaningful relationship where one person’s feeling hopeful and really developing some substantial feelings and you’re not at all interested, that can be incredibly disappointing, devastating and upsetting.
So these waters can be muddy, but there’s some tools and tips here that I want to talk about in a moment. But first, I just want to also weave in here that I’ve had so many people reach out to me and really ask about “Is it good to be friends with your ex?” I had somebody write me – this was probably months ago – it was kind of a second question so I didn’t really focus on it too much, but he’s basically saying “After we have had the breakup and she’s asking if we can still be friends, and I’m kind of a man of my word, I said yes, but when I really think about it, I’m actually not that interested. Because I really was never just friends with her in the first place. I actually thought she was hot and wanted to pursue relationship with her, so that’s why I was friends.” Hence, you can even see in this question that when they were previously friends before they started dating, he had feelings for her.
For her it might have been just a friend thing, but for him, he totally was attracted and was very hopeful about entering into a relationship. His intention was to pursue relationship. So for this particular scenario, I would just A) first of all, if you’re contemplating being friends with an ex, give yourself time. You want to at least give yourself three to six months to just grieve and transition; that’s minimum, because if you’ve been with your partner and your girlfriend, or your wife or husband for a period of time, you have history, you have habits, you have a comfortability, and it’s going to just feel super familiar to be partnered with that person, so it’s just very difficult to just weave into a platonic friendship. You’re just going to have these natural tendencies to want to pick up the phone and call them when something happens to you; you want them to be your person. So you want to just give some time to clear that out of your system and then reset, “Okay, what is this purpose of being in the relationship?”
I have a few other scenarios and I’m going to weave those into my points here. My first point is just if you have been in relationship and you’re thinking about being friends with your ex, at least give yourself some time to just grieve and really shift from being in relationship to being on your own, and then considering reevaluating, “Do I really want to be friends with this person?” Because if you haven’t given yourself any time to really grieve and just find yourself after a breakup, you’re likely to kind of just succumb and have this slippery slope, gravitational pull into just avoiding discomfort, avoiding fear. So you might just be friends to hold on to that person, you don’t want to lose them; maybe you’re not entirely sure that you want to end the relationship and you want to keep them maybe on the backburner. Or you have lots of shared friends, and it just feels so difficult to try to separate out, how to negotiate your shared friendships. Or let’s say you try to be friends because you don’t want to hurt their feelings, right? You don’t want to let them down easily, you don’t want to hurt them. Or you appreciate the attention, or you’re emotionally kind of dependent on them, you kind of need them, they’re kind of like a crutch.
There’s actually this article that I will post on the show notes, and it’s The Ten Worst Reasons To Stay Friends With Your Ex, and I think it’s just kind of a really nice pointing out how easily we can kind of delude ourselves, or kind of be kidding ourselves around why we want to be friends. So the point here is really around what’s your intention? What’s the purpose of being in relationship?
My ex, they guy that I dated before I started dating my now husband, we had a really amazing relationship by a lot of standards. We had a lot of conflict too, which is essentially why we broke up, which propelled me into studying a lot of these things in the first place, so I’m very grateful for that. But I had really largely considered being friends with him for a long time, because I think he’s a fantastic person. But over time I just was like “There’s a lot of fantastic people in my life in general, I’m not sure what the purpose of being friends with him is.” I think this is for each person to really have discernment about because there’s a lot of things to consider, particularly if you have children.
I have seen a few times, and I have had such regard for this, I think it’s just so incredibly loving and mature. I’ve seen the result of probably a lot of work, so it’s easy for me to see the beauty. So what I’m trying to describe here is I have a friend who his mother – phenomenal woman – and his dad; and his mother got divorced, but for years and years and years and still to this day, basically do family holidays, do family events together. Because their purpose and their priority is on the family. So I’m sure there was some things they had to work through, and like I said in my first point, that didn’t happen immediately, but the priority of family was the purpose of them being friends, being cordial, and ultimately ending up having a really great friendship, a platonic friendship. But again, it was for the purpose of family.
Since I moved to Santa Barbara I have a friend that I play beach volleyball with, and she’s amazing, and her ex-husband, the father of her children – same thing, continues to come to family events for the purpose of family and really being connected. Because when we experience divorce and kids have to kind of go back and fore, then it’s really divided. I know that children of divorced parents have to really straddle in different worlds. So if the parents can negotiate and really come together in this shared purpose – and I know that there’s a lot of things here and it’s much easier said than done, but I have seen it work really beautifully. So my friend, she has been remarried for many years, and everybody is there, and it’s this real shared intention, and they have obviously worked through whatever their challenge is to negotiate a really platonic friendship, and it’s worked really well.
So I think part of what this requires though if I can just highlight a couple points here, is having some sensitivity. Because if you’re not bringing awareness, if you’re not really looking at what the quality of the relationship is like, then you’re likely going to be overlooking some really important factors. So this person that you call a friend – I have people that have come to me, and the purpose that they’ve wanted to maintain friendship with an ex has been professional. They share a business together, or they have some type of business venture, or there’s some type of professional reason why they still want to maintain a relationship, and hence some type of friendship. Again, those lines can be really blurry once we start crossing boundaries, and I’m gonna talk about boundaries in a moment. But if we’re not sensitive, we’re going to easily overlook, dismiss, minimize and justify why we’re maintaining what the quality of the friendship is.
So if you’ve so-called said, “Okay, the purpose of our being friends, given that we’re exes, is professional.” But then let’s say she calls – let’s say I’m a guy – let’s say she keeps calling me and she’s needing something personal, or she is really seeking my support for emotional support. If I’m really being sensitive, that’s probably outside of the bounds of professional; so there is this sensitivity. Or do you feel like you’re feeling feelings from them? Like that they might have more feelings from you. I mean, there’s lots of colors and shades of what you might pick up from someone else that’s a friend. But again, if you’re being sensitive, you want to bring awareness to this.
The other thing I’ll just comment right here is there is research that suggests that exes don’t actually provide the best quality of relationship. So if you were ever romantically involved – and you know, when they do these studies, a lot of times they do studies with college kids and college-age students, because they’re kind of a good sample where you can just get easy access to a pool of people that can represent many different populations as far as income, as far as race, lots of diversity variable; so it’s a nice way to get a pool of people and have easy access. Well, the challenge of that is you get an age demographic that’s probably not representative of the full populations. So some of these research studies I do think kind of really give good information about some things, but also is within the realm of that age group.
So this research study – I haven’t done enough to say whether or not these are just college kids that they studied, but it kind of feels like it. And that’s just very anecdotal for me to say, I don’t have anything to back that up, but basically they’re saying these friendships with exes are lower quality, and that they are less emotionally supportive, less helpful, less trusting and less concerned about the other person’s happiness. So there’s a sense of like, you know, maybe a little more critical, a little more dismissive, because there was some dissatisfaction with the romantic relationship. Or even when that wasn’t mutual, so there’s some leftover resentment, or hurt, so some of these relationships cannot actually be that healthy. So with the sensitivity, you want to just be aware of what’s the quality of this relationship. And again, to my second point, what’s the purpose? Is it just somebody that’s a crutch, you don’t want to let them go, or is there a real clear purpose and intention. And with this sensitivity I think hand in hand it goes with being willing to be honest. So this is when you feel that maybe one person is pining and it’s not really feeling like the best match, and you’re feeling all this energy coming from the other person. There’s some point we have to be honest about it, and that’s not an easy thing to confront.
Again, going back to the story that I mentioned with my friend, where she felt really challenged with this person that she was enjoying the friendship, but could feel he wanted more. So she had to actually have a conversation, a real difficult, honest conversation to say “Look, this doesn’t feel appropriate, and I don’t know if you can shift into platonic feelings for me, but I cannot in my own integrity keep moving forward when there’s this dynamic between us. I feel like you’re pining, and I’m married and I’m not interested. So the quality of their friendship is being jeopardized, or is being affected by this mismatch.
The other thing I want to comment, and again I want to say this without blame or shame, just again the sense of being honest and bringing self-awareness. So we all do this, where we can maybe look at our behavior and say “Oh, I can look at it now and see that maybe I wasn’t being fully honest, or I wasn’t fully aware of what I was doing.” So sometimes we might hide or we might share certain things with a friend, or that friend might say something or invite us somewhere and we kind of try to protect our significant other, thinking they might feel threatened or feel jealous, and I want to encourage you to be really honest about what you’re doing there. Because if your partner is not included or you’re kind of creating a little bit of a wedge… It’s all in the theme of protecting your husband or protecting your wife and you’re not wanting to rock the boat, but you’re creating a divide there. It’s some level of dishonesty, and I get it – a lot of the time it’s really just about avoiding the conflict, so if you feel this friendship with someone and you think your partner’s going to be jealous or have issue, and you’re like “I don’t really wanna not be friends with this person, but obviously I want my partner to feel safe and feel secure, and I don’t know how to negotiate this” and we tend to just want to avoid it.
Well, I’m going to assure you it’s just going to continue to snowball and be even further complicated, because if you’re doing anything dishonest, your significant other, your spouse is going to think “Okay, that’s reason to be suspect. How come you’re not being fully honest?” It’s by omission. You’re not lying, but you’re omitting certain details. Like “Oh, I ran into them” or “Oh yeah, we had lunch”, or “Yeah, I talked to that person on the phone. Yeah, we talk pretty frequently.” If that’s completely new news to your spouse, that can feel a little disconcerting, right?
So the real thing here is about creating safety. When we feel that the bond is being jeopardized or there’s some risk to the emotional connectedness in the marriage or in the partnership, then that’s when we start to get activated, that’s when we start to feel threatened and we start to go into strategies to try to seek safety, and that’s usually when we start to feel polarized and we start kind of doing this dance that can be incredibly painful and disconnected. So again, we just want to highlight here, this is a great place to seek counseling or coaching, and you can reach out to me, we can have a conversation and see if I might be able to be of support. Because really, you want to get to the place where your partner trusts you, your partner supports you, and you partner feels safe, secure, and you feel in your integrity and you feel honest, and you feel in all your own measures that you are operating at the highest level of your integrity, of your intention, of your own purpose.
So again, one of the good measures here is to look at “Okay, so what is my behavior and what kind of relationship am I developing?” So if you have this side relationship that you’ve tagged as a friendship, but you’re doing these things that could look like you’re investing in a relationship that could be romantic, could be sexual – that you really want to evaluate. Is that really in alignment with what you’re wanting as far relationship, in the sense of its purpose? If this is just a friend, then what’s your behavior? If your behavior is not congruent with friendship, then you want to look at that, you want to be honest about that, like what are you getting from that? And there’s a lot more to explore here, that’s why I say this is kind of a good place to get support, because you want to do this ahead of time, before it starts to snowball even more and find yourself in a very difficult predicament.
And another really good measure here is is your partner included? If your partner was with you would you say and would you do the exact same that you’re doing when your partner’s not with you? Is it really transparent? I mean yes, there are certain things that you might be excited to talk to a friend about that maybe your husband or your spouse or your wife wouldn’t fully get, but if your husband or wife or spouse were there, would you feel comfortable doing the exact same thing you’re doing when they’re not there? And do they feel included?
Again, as I mentioned, I think there’s so much to this topic, but the last thing I want to mention for today is boundaries. I don’t mean boundaries in the sense of someone else is placing boundaries on you and you feel obligated and you feel constricted and confined by someone else’s rules, but what I want to invite you into is a real consideration of your own boundaries, what you feel okay with, what you feel comfortable with, and what’s in your integrity, and then what’s not. Again, this kind of goes back to the question I was asking earlier – what kind of relationship are you really developing and really being honest about that. Do you have candlelight dinners or do you have lunch? Is a hug okay? Is a kiss on the cheek okay? Is playfulness okay, is flirting okay? There are certain things, and this really relates to personality, and there is a lot of variation around people’s beliefs, but this is something that you want to be clear and be operating in your own self-accountability.
Because anything your partner – yes, you want to be considerate and yes you want to be in the dialogue of creating safety with your partner, because if you’re doing something that is dramatically threatening to your relationship and their emotional well-being, you want to be authentic in you but also engaging in safety in your relationship. So you don’t want to compromise yourself… Okay, so I’m trying to say two things here: one is you want to be considerate of your partner, you want to be investing in an emotionally safe, secure bond with your significant other, and you don’t want to alter or compromise who you are; you want to be authentic and you want to be genuine. A lot of people get caught up in trying to create safety by their partner’s definition and they lose connection with themselves.
So with your boundaries, I want to encourage you to have your own measures of what feels good to you, and that takes a level of sensitivity, honesty, awareness what your intention is, all the things I’m talking about here, and again, sometimes it’s nice to have some support to kind of flesh some of this out. So you could either read a book, you could do some kind of self-inquiry and journal, you can seek a support person. There’s things to gain further understanding of yourself, but again, this is all really important and valuable work that’s going to be well spent, that’s going to evolve you into having quality friendships and simultaneously having healthy, secure partnership that continues to be passionate and alive. I just want to say that that’s possible. It comes with some intention and having similar goals and purposes and really being honest and aware, and being willing to communicate.
I encourage you to comment on the show notes page of this podcast episode, or reach out to me if you have any follow-up questions. I’d be happy to do another episode on this topic if you feel like you didn’t get all that you were looking for. Or, like I’d mentioned, if you’re interested in getting a little more support, feel free to reach out to me, we can have a conversation, see if I might be a good fit to help you accomplish your goals in a relationship. My website is DrJessicaHiggins.com, you can click on Contact and find the ways to reach me there. You can leave me a voicemail right from my website, you can call me or you can e-mail me.
Again, I just so appreciate your time of just contemplating some of these topics to further improve your relational ability and skill, and just improve your life and your relationships. I just have the utmost regard for you and your development. Until next time, take great care.
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