ERP 076: How To Deal With Upset In Your Relationship In A New Way
Welcome to The Empowered Relationship Podcast, helping you turn relationship challenges into opportunities and setting you up for relationship success. Your host, Dr. Jessica Higgins, is a licensed psychologist and relationship coach who shares valuable tips, tools and resources for you to dramatically improve your relationship.
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Hi, thank you for joining and listening to today’s episode, How To Deal With Upset In Your Relationship In A New Way, and this is episode 76. Today’s episode is special, because today is the first time we’re having someone on the show receiving live coaching. Essentially, I scheduled with someone who wanted to get feedback from me with the understanding that I would record the whole call and they would get laser coaching.
Essentially, you’re going to hear the call from beginning to end in its entirety, and I want to just invite you as this is something new that I’m offering, it’s something new that I’m doing, I have no connection with this individual before this call, I had no screening, prescreening or even understanding of his particular relationship concern. The only information I have is about him wanting to be on the show and us scheduling. I had no prepping for what his concern was.
And so part of the way that I typically work is I really focus on developing rapport, creating safety with the people that I work with. Since this is a laser coaching experience, I’m trying to do that, as well as honing on this question and then offering feedback and direction.
Now, as we potentially do this more often, we’ll create a system together in our community, and we’ll create a sense of safety in our community, as we know that the individuals that are on this show are having tremendous courage to reveal and open and share so much with us, knowing that we resonate with one another’s stories, we resonate with one another’s experiences and we can find ourselves in each other’s experiences. We can resonate and we learn from one another.
While we might not resonate with everything and every person, there are often themes or situations that we can identify with. As you listen, I just want to invite you to have that in mind as this person is again sharing really openly and vulnerably with us and on the show; that’s a huge gift, and just to recognize his courage in doing so.
[Call starts]
Dr. Jessica Higgins: We’ve never met. Would you like to tell me a little bit about what’s going on for you and your question and how can I be a support?
Listener: Sure. Let me tell you how I first heard of you.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay.
Listener: My girlfriend (we’re having a lot of trouble) she one day e-mailed me. She said, “Bobby, I’m like this. I can’t stop.” And I read the articles from you and I read the top seven things about being critical, how criticism can destroy a relationship. And I read all seven of the items or it might have been more, and boy, Sherry, met every single one of them. She would criticize me, and it just breaks down the relationship as you had said in the article. And she just said, she cannot help it, and I believe that, I truly believe that. But that’s how I heard. She had been doing research on her own to try to figure out why she does this.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: It’s okay. Tell me a little bit about your relationship.
Listener: Alright. Sherry and I met little over two-and-half-years ago; wonderful relationship because we’re of two different faiths. She’s Jewish and I am Baptist. I’ve met her family. Her family absolutely loves me: mother, father, sister; my family loves her. No issues at all, no issues at all; beautiful, beautiful relationship. But Sherry is a perfectionist, and I’ll admit, I can’t follow along the way she wants me to sometimes. Text messages, e-mails, things of that nature, and she does not stand for that.
She loves the way I love her, she says no one has ever loved her the way I do. I’m very attentive, do everything I can for her. When she’s not feeling well, I will tend to her and comfort her, rub her feet; do anything like that. But doctor, if I’m sick, [laughter] “To heck with you. You know, you fix it yourself. You’re a man”, you know?
But she’s this very, very unique individual, a very smart girl. She is a registered dietician, that’s what she does. She has a passion for food, she’s a vegetarian, but when she’s upset on something, she cannot restrain or constrain herself and she’ll yell at me top of her lungs, she’ll yell at her father, she’ll yell at her mother, her sister and the thing that’s so tough to get used to is that she’ll go silent. She will sit with me on a car ride for 40 minutes to her father’s house without saying a word, either way.
I took her to a boat ride for her birthday. She got in that boat, a two-hour trip, didn’t say a word, wouldn’t even look at me, and until she calms down, that’s what I have to deal with. I’ve been to therapy before because I was previously married and I know I can handle someone yelling at me. I don’t get upset, and that’s the thing I’m concerned and why I contacted you.
How do I express myself when something cruel has happened, so she says something cruel or does something or screams at me? And I’ll just say, “Yes, honey, it will be okay.” That’s not the way I should respond, I don’t feel. But this constant criticism will break, as you say in your article. It’s a beautiful article that you wrote. After time it just breaks down.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah. So you guys have been together for two-and-a-half years. It sounds like there’s a lot of love, a lot of care and it sounds like you are pretty serious about her, is that right?
Listener: I love her to death. I think she’s fulfilled me with everything, and let me tell you why. My mother passed away, doctor, about 20 years ago. When Mothers Day comes around or her birthday comes around, I’m a little melancholic.
I told Sherry just once the date my mother passed, she did research on her own using the Internet to research who my mother was, found that she was a great mother in the State of New Jersey, Mother of the Year and all these different things, printed all these articles and made me a nice picture book about my mom and everything. She’s just so thoughtful.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Wow.
Listener: Yeah, wow is right, but if she doesn’t get the same thing in return… Like, heaven forbid; if I forget a birthday or one of her friends or her mother’s anniversary, I’m in the doghouse, big time.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, okay. If I can reflect back to your question just so I make sure I’m on the same page, it sounds like when she brought this article to you and described, “I’m concerned about the ways that I criticize,” and you feel like also it’s a concern for you and your relationship with Sherry.
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. And it sounds like that when she’s upset you feel like you’ve have — you’ve been around the block, you feel like you have strength around how to not take it personally, how to tolerate it and at some point you’re like, “I don’t really know how to relate to her. I don’t know how to express myself when I have a concern or if I have an emotional need.” Is that also what you’re saying?
Listener: Exactly.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. When you said a moment ago you were talking about “If I’m sick – nothing. She doesn’t…”
Listener: Yeah, she won’t offer me any help. “Honey, I’ll come over. I know you’re sick, I understand that you have a bad, bad virus. I’ll come and take you to the doctors and get you some fluids.” Because, doctor, I was so sick I couldn’t even crawl out of my apartment – because we don’t live together – I couldn’t even crawl out of my apartment to get me some orange juice or ginger ale, I was that sick.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. But do you ask her, do you tell her like, “Hey, look, I know it’s not a comfortable thing…”, and I have many people tell me “If I have to ask for it, then it
doesn’t mean anything”, but have you tested the waters with her around expressing your need or desire in relationship with her?
Listener: I have in a roundabout way. For example, we were playing golf one day with her dad. I tee off first and her dad teed off at a place that’s a little closer to the hole and then she as a woman tees off even closer to the hole. I was driving with her dad and we passed her tee by mistake, it was out of mistake. Her dad is 74 years old, so it was just an honest mistake.
Doctor, she got out of that cart and screamed at her dad like you wouldn’t believe, okay? I said, “Sherry, it’s going to be okay. Sherry, do you really need to talk to your dad that way?” And I said in a loving way, doctor. “Don’t you ever, don’t you ever discuss with me about the family ever again. You hear me? Or we’re done.” Just like that. So it feels like I’m dealing with two personalities, you know?
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. When I ask about have you tested the water, you’re saying, “Yeah, and I essentially get my hands [unintelligible 00:10:50.16]”
Listener: Right. And I don’t know what to do, I don’t know what to say.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. Can I back up for a moment? She’s the one that actually brought this to you. What is she doing? I mean, it sounds like she has identified in herself, “When I lose my temper or just in general, I have this more critical lens and it’s not helping me”, so she brought it to you. Do you know if she is doing anything to grow in that area?
Listener: Doctor, I think that’s my goal too, is maybe some day we can maybe get in front of you together. But she’s such a perfectionist and you have all the degrees and the masters in these type of things, you’ll understand this. We’re coming into the house, and if her lamp shade is crooked she’ll say “Honey, go over there and straighten that up.” I mean, that’s the type of control that she needs to have, that’s what I’m dealing with.
I’ve figured I want to find out may be how I can approach her at some point. Because, you know, it’s a shame that the love that we have for each other, and there is no doubt… She gave a little book saying, “I’m your once in a lifetime love” and it’s the cutest book. I have it on my table and I read it every day. But, you know, right now we’re not speaking, so I think I’m going to …
Dr. Jessica Higgins: You’re not speaking?
Listener: No. Right now I want to get myself fixed if I can.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. Are you guys like on a break or is it just you’re mad at each other right now and you’re just not communicating?
Listener: Yeah, she’s upset with me. It’s been a week, so she’s upset with me right now.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, okay, okay. Do you have a vision in mind around what you’re wanting? I mean are you wanting to have a commitment with her that’s a deeper level of commitment? Can you give a vision of what you’d like with her?
Listener: Yeah, I’d like to see how far the relationship can go. Here’s the caveat, doctor, that I haven’t shared with you, and you could probably figure this out. Sherry does not have any relationships. We’ve been together two and a half years. Whenever we’re together, her phone does not ring. She does not have a close friend. She has her sister and her father, strained relationship with her mother and me. That is it, at age 43, and it’s because of the way she wants it. If she feels like someone did some wrong to her, she cuts them off like its nothing, you know? That’s how she deals with life.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, okay. Well, so the challenge that I’m just going to lay out a little bit here is that you guys have had for the two-and-a-half years I’m imagining some version of romance. Your romance days, where you were attracted to one another; this phase is what we see in the movies and I don’t know if you’ve listened to a lot of my podcast, but I have mentioned that this is where we epitomize [unintelligible 00:13:53.08].
Listener: I’m addicted to them.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Nice, I love to hear that, thank you. It’s easy to view this as the ultimate state. I mean, the little book you’re talking about, “You’re the one” – this is what we really long for, that bondedness, but what we typically overlook is there’s an actual foundation of the way we relate, how we negotiate upset, how we speak to one another when we’re triggered, or if Sherry, your partner — how would you call her, your girlfriend, or…?
Listener: Oh, yeah, she’s my girlfriend. My family [unintelligible 00:14:34.26] Yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I was calling her your wife, and I was like, “Wait a second…” Great. So the romance is important, I don’t want to take away from that, but I also want to encourage – and this is what you’re doing right now, which is fantastic… Which is, “What’s our approach with one another?” This is where we’re gonna go – Sherry, I don’t know, since she’s not on this call, I don’t have a sense of what perfectionism, what criticism does for her, but I can tell you a lot of people, like in the article, it’s a mechanism of trying to feel safe.
If there’s some level of insecurity or anxiety or pain, we want to control our external worlds could try to feel better inside ourselves. If people are behaving in ways that she is not liking and perhaps she’s uncomfortable with, then up until now, it sounds like something that’s a strategy she’s tried has been to criticize, yell, and then you’re talking about the silence treatment, to get things to a better place for her, if that’s fair.
Okay, so that’s going to be hers to work with, but you’re coming to me and you’re saying “I would like this individual time with you”, if I can give you any feedback about what I can do, okay?
I just want to say first off, I don’t know if I’m talking to the masculine in you, but you can’t make her feel something, you can’t take away her pain, you can’t take away her insecurity; you can assist her, you can help her, you can show up for her, but you can’t make it go away.
Listener: Okay.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I say that and I say the masculine because often times men typically want to provide, they want to alleviate. If there’s a problem, like “Let me fix it. I want to be that person for you that makes it better.” Does that happen for you at all or is that in your question is all, or you get that?
Listener: Yeah, that’s exactly what it is, yes. I do want to fix it, and we just had a few moments ago, doctor, it was so true. When she writes in a card to me, she goes, “Bobby, you’re so loving. Thank you for understanding, giving me the space I need. Whenever I get shaky, please remind me that, you know, together we can get through anything. But I have these moments when I get scared and I get nervous and I’m just not sure of the future, and that’s when I push you away.” And that’s exactly what she does. It’s so frustrating.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, well, that’s good news though. That’s great news that she’s able to articulate some awareness about her process. And that must feel tremendously good. That in her heart she’s saying, “The place you hold with me is so special and it means the world to me. Thank you for who you are in my life and what you allow and what you help provide in our connection.”
She’s telling you, “This is very important to me. And what I know about myself is I will doubt, I’ll get scared, I’ll question, I’ll push you away.” For me that’s good news, that there can be a dialogue. “Okay, how can we deal with that?” So how are we doing so far? Can I check in with you? Are we on track or do you have some questions?
Listener: Yeah, it’s just fine, I’m good.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. [unintelligible 00:18:53.27] about the conversation about this topic. So what’s happened thus far about have you guys even had that question come up for you around how do we deal with this territory? In a calmer state, not in the moment.
Listener: [laughs] We haven’t in so many words now, because of what the situation is, because she gets in these valleys, doctor, and I really do believe that she is upset when she tells her dad or tells me… “Did I tell you to call me at 7:20?” or whatever like that and we don’t do or forget something, she doesn’t have tolerance. She always says, “Do what you say and say what you do. That’s all I ask, that’s all I need in my life.”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I want to push back on that a little bit, because I get that’s her strategy to feel safe. I’m going to just operate on this assumption. Again, Sherry is not here so it’s little unfair that I’m speaking assumptively, but that’s what this kind of laser coaching is, I’m just going to talk first blink. But if that’s her strategy, she’s basically giving you, “Here’s the map to how I feel safe” and that’s historic. That’s the strategy that she’s known up until this point, and the the push backing is “I don’t know that it’s realistic for any person to be perfect, to not ever drop the ball.”
Listener: Exactly.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: In some ways for you to agree to that is a setup. I would encourage you to not agree to that.
Listener: Okay.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So what I would encourage you though is to take some — and what happens in you when she says that? Are you like, “Yes, yes, yes” or are you feeling scared, and like, “I don’t want to lose you.” Like, “I’ll say yes, but I don’t know how…” What comes up for you if she says “Do what you say.”
Listener: I usually say “Yes dear, I’ll try to work on it or I’ll try to do better” and sometimes I can’t. It’s frustrating, doctor, I can’t. I’m going to make mistakes, I’m human, you know?
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Precisely. What I would nudge you into a little bit here is… So just a bigger picture principle here – I wouldn’t want you guys to get caught up on mechanics. And what I mean by that is the strategy of her feeling safe. Up until now she needs things to feel perfect for her to feel safe. And then the strategy and the mechanics are “Do exactly what you say you’re going to do all the time, be completely on point and exact, and never mess up, ever”, okay? That’s the mechanics. But if you guys can bring the conversation to “You’re really wanting to feel safe. I want to help you feel safe, and I know that I’m human and I’m not going to agree to something that I can’t do, because that’s going to bring a breach of trust, that’s going to bring a lack of trust. It’s a setup for failure, and I’m not interested in creating a dynamic where you’re at me or waiting for me to drop the other shoe. I want to be in a position where we can help each other feel safe.” Because at the same time, Robert, you’re telling me, “I don’t feel like I have room to bring my concern up, or for me to be vulnerable.”
Listener: Right. That’s exactly how I’m feeling.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. This is good stuff, and this is probably… You know, I can give you some high-level point outs or target some areas here, and I can give you some suggestions, and these dynamics will probably take some working. There’s probably something about you that’s attracted to this dynamic, there’s a reason why you show up the way you do. I don’t want this to be all about her and her strategies. I’m assuming you have your own, yeah?
Listener: I guess I’m embarrassed, doctor. I’m almost like a dog with a blondie. I’m a [unintelligible 00:23:09.12] or one of those, and I don’t want to be like that, because guys say, “Bob, how do you let somebody talk to you like that? What’s wrong with you? Be a man, be a man!” [laughs]
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Well, that’s a really hard place, because you love her.
Listener: Yes, yes, I do.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And it sounds like when you have challenged her, it sounds like she experiences that as threatening and disrespectful, and like you’re not with her.
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So it’s like, “Do I disregard her, the person I love and that I want to be with, and rock that boat? Or do I rock the boat of my own empowerment?”
Listener: Yeah.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Neither one is a great option.
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: You’re with your friends and people who are witnessing this… I’m sure that’s coming from a loving place like, “You’re a good man, why would you want to sign up to be treated that way?”
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: “As my buddy, I want you to have somebody who’s going to really speak to you in high regard.”
So where are you at right now with what we’re talking about? I want to know what are your questions, what’s coming up for you.
Listener: Yeah, I just want to be able to deal with it where I could… I don’t know, we need to get down on a dining room table, sheet of paper and pencils and hash about that way, list ten things that bother you and whatever, I don’t know. I just want to be able to deal with it without having to walk on eggshells.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay.
Listener: That’s what’s really frustrating me, doctor, because I do love her and I do put an awful lot of effort into the relationship, which I don’t mind, because when you’re in love it’s no effort at all. But it’s tough, because deep down inside I know she’s hurting and I suspect it’s from childhood, because one time we were driving in the car and I said, “Honey, watch that car.” She was like, “Don’t you ever tell me how to drive.” So I said, “Honey, tell me why did you answer me in that kind of tone?” She was like, “My father taught me how to drive and he constantly criticized me. He constantly criticized me”, and that’s why I’m saying, I’m sort of getting a picture of why she is like this. But it’s so frustrating, because she’s just a beautiful, smart, intelligent woman that gets along with, you know, the people that she chooses to, but there’s no relationship because no one could match up to her standards.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. And is she aware, if she feeling some discontent with her community or her support system? Does she feel like a lack?
Listener: Yes.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, okay. Robert, there is two major pain points that I’m hearing you speak to. I’m hearing you say, “I know she’s hurting and I want to be there for her. And I know there’s stuff that’s bigger, that goes back to when I didn’t even know her and there’s stuff about this that I can’t make go away, but I want to help her. I know she’s hurting.”
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: The second is “I can’t walk on eggshells for our whole relationship, that’s not attainable.”
Listener: No.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So for me, this is where real relationship in the sense of long-term, lasting, authentic, passionate relationship starts to happen.
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: It’s where we can enter into a dialogue and where you could say those exact two things to her. Like “I know when you’re upset, and my heart gets that you’re hurting and I want to be there for you. And I also want to feel that I can bring my full self, and that I have a way to talk to you and we have a way to talk to one another, because right now I feel your strategy is so strong, I don’t know how to meet you in that. Whether or not it’s yelling at me or criticizing me or wanting me to conform to something that feels inhuman or robotic or non-fallible, and as humans were fallible.”
So if you guys scan have an honest conversation… “I get why you have wanted this in the past, I get how that would help you feel safe, and I want to help you feel safe. Are there other ways that we can work together where we can both feel safe?” That’s relationship.
Listener: It makes a lot of sense.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So what’s coming up for you as we’re talking about this?
Listener: I’m just thinking that which I said earlier as well too, there may be nothing I could do to help her as far as what she’s going through, and I might just have to make a decision, not wholly based on that… Because I think this is going to keep happening on and on and on.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, yes, you’re right. When you say “make a decision,” what do you mean?
Listener: About our relationship. I mean, she’s 43 years old, and for a woman that’s beautiful and intelligent and not trying to paint everybody with the same brush, but she’s never had a sustaining relationship. This may be the reason why, because if you talk to someone like that, most people are going to tell you to go to hell, or you’re nuts or you’re crazy. They’re not going to put up with that, but I do, because I’m sort of trained to do that.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: By her, or are there also other experiences in your life?
Listener: Yes, based off a prior marriage, you know?
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, okay, okay. To keep this on point… I mean, we could go in a bunch of different directions, that’s helpful for me to know. You’re right, the reality is we don’t know if she wants to do this with you and we don’t know if she can.
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And that’s the risk, my friend. And what do you think about bringing this up with her in a calm place of saying “At the end of the day, I want you to feel that I have your back, that I am helping create a safe relationship with you and that we’re together. And I’m not okay with being yelled at. I would like for there to be other ways that we could relate. I also want to be able to bring up my concerns in a way that you feel safe. I don’t like it when you’re threatened and then I feel like I can’t bring my opinion or my feelings to the table.”
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I mean, it sounds like the fact that she already has some self-awareness… Have you said that to her? What would it be like to even say that to her?
Listener: I actually have said that to her, doctor. She actually says to me, “Well, you need to find someone who is more compatible to you.” That’s her cop out. I mean, she’s not even willing to get into it.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, was this is in a calm conversation or was this in the heat of a moment?
Listener: Like in-between. Because in the heat-heat she won’t even talk.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Oh, right, right. Okay. Well, if this person sounds significant enough to you, I would bring this up in a way where you guys are connected.
Listener: Okay.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I know you’re not talking right now so it’s hard, but if in the coming days you guys start to warm up to each other again and you might say, “Okay, let’s have a talk,” you could have a heart-to-heart… I would invite this to be more from your heart, from your gut around “I love you, I want you to feel safe and I will go to the moon and back. And I want to feel that we’re working together in a way that works for us both.”
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: “And would you be willing to consider other ways of feeling safe and also us working together where I also feel like there’s space for me to bring myself?” Do you feel that would be different than what you’ve already done?
Listener: I think it would, that’s why I just wrote that down, because I think it will be a different approach and I appreciate that doctor, because I want to see if that would work.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Because if she says “yes” then you have a door open. You have an open door to then explore together.
Listener: Doctor, where do you think that passion comes from where she’s so hell-bent about – for instance we’re driving in a car, someone cuts her off, right away she will go back up and cut that person off or get in front of that person, or you know… I mean, I’m competitive too, but there’s something, you know… I don’t know, it’s frustrating.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: It feels intense. It feels really intense for you.
Listener: She’s intense. But hey, intense – she’s intense as a lover, she’s intense as in making me a carrot cake for my birthday by hand, and she uses all the best ingredients. I mean, she does everything – whether it’s work, whether it’s play – to the fullest. She lives her life, doctor, every day to the fullest. When she wakes up, she never hits that snooze button. She gets up, she’s already ready with that purpose for the day.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So it sounds like you’re saying there’s some really beautiful qualities about that.
Listener: Oh, god…Many.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: That level of passion and that intensity, and at times it might even be scary for you. Like, you’re in a car…
Listener: [laughs] Doctor, I said something one time, she told me to get out, and she meant it in the middle of the freeway. She stopped the car.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Wow.
Listener: Oh my gosh, I said, “No honey, relax. Take me back home. If you don’t want to go to the baseball game, we don’t have to go.” And she took me back, but goodness gracious. So feel like, I don’t know… Sitting on my hands, I don’t know what to do.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. This is the other thing – as you’re talking, part of what my coaching is best geared for is for relationships that don’t have addiction, abuse, mental illness… I’m kind of approaching this from just relationship dynamics. And I would also encourage you, if you’re going to have this conversation around, “I really want you to feel safe and I want us to work together where you feel like I’m with you, I’ve got your back, and if you’re not feeling safe, then there are ways that we can come together, aside from criticism and yelling, that you can have that result.” That’s one component.
The other component is, “I want to feel safe.” My guess is she probably has no idea that you feel hurt, that you feel scared, that you can’t really fully tell her when you feel like you need something from her or feel vulnerable. You want to also be clear that that’s important to you, and you want to develop a relationship where that’s equally important.
Listener: Yes.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So if you get a yes and you’re working together, then there’s a whole big chunk in this, Robert, where you’re going to want to delineate what you’re okay with and what you’re not okay with. And the only way she’s going to know that is that you help guide her. Not to blame or shame her, but this is a whole process around, “Here’s what happens for me when you yell or you tell me to get out of the car when we’re on the freeway.” And I don’t know that she knows. She’s probably too consumed by her own intense emotion.
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: That’s then the relationship that’s all about for her and then where do you go, right? That would be a big chunk of your work. So not only having this conversation with her, is she interested, and then going down that road. I would recommend getting support. I’d be happy to do a call with you guys to explore that option, or someone local or even materials online. There are a lot of opportunities.
And then secondly perhaps, Robert, some real work around how to help her know you and your comfort, your boundaries and to do that in a way where you feel like you have a voice. I’m stumbling over my words a little bit, because I hear that you’re super sensitive to rocking a boat with her and you’re walking on eggshells, so you’re sensitive to how that might sound for her, right? You want it to be tactful, you want it to be considerate, but so much so that you’re not even bringing that up. Your work would be approaching that and creating safety for you to bring up your boundaries, what feels comfortable, what feels safe in your experience. Does that make sense?
Listener: It does, doctor, it does.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay. Well, where are you at with all of this? And I’ve given you a time, it’s pretty high-level. It’s a lot to implement this, I know. It’s going to take some effort, but can you help me with how you’re doing right now?
Listener: I’ll tell you what, you’re so good at what you do, that for the last 40 minutes or so it really hasn’t been a — it’s been so much filled with so much good stuff… I don’t know, I need time just to decipher.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes.
Listener: I just appreciate that, it was a true blessing, because I’m broken this time, doctor, and then just for you to respond… I wasn’t sure if you would or not. I just took a chance and I just really appreciate that you took time out of your busy schedule to do this, because… Well, it’s just a tough time.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah, I hear that.
Listener: Tough time, yeah.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: You’re welcome, and I appreciate your courage, I appreciate you asking and I hear your intention in this, I do. And I think your question and your pondering is spot on, and it is scary to have this conversation with her – yeah, it sounds easy to say, but to actually be in the moment, to bring it up, to talk about it, to talk about your real longing, to face maybe getting a no, that’s not easy at all.
I have deep, deep honor and regards for what you’re in and all that’s included. Yeah, you’ll have access to this podcast episode, you can listen to it again, you’ll have the recording and I hope that you can reach out to me, let me know how it’s going. Again, my two big takeaways are I would invite you to think how would be in a calm heart-to-heart with her.
Listener: Okay.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: You guys do have some language around this, because you’ve already been talking about it, that’s the good news, so you’ll be able to communicate to her, “Look, here’s what I would love to create with you where you can feel safe, I can feel safe and we develop new strategies and ways of relating that help us both feel safe.” And that’s gonna take work. That’s so easily said, but it’s going to take some actual… But the goal and the intention will be the motivation for that, right?
Listener: Right, right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So you guys want that, and then second would be “How do I work on my part?” which is bringing yourself with her intensity, and how to negotiate not losing yourself, asking for what you need, letting her know your experience, creating a safe space where she gets to hear and meet you.
Listener: Right.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I think it actually could be really healing for her, truly. I think while it might feel selfish and it’s not probably your way, to think about “How can I get my needs here?”, but I think it’s actually healthy for her. If you’re talking about how little relationship she has, for her to have an experience, to do that with someone who’s safe, I think that would be really healing for her, regardless of where your relationship goes to. I will tell you though, that’s the basis for a lasting relationship, that’s truly life-giving.
Listener: Well, just think about Sherry right now. I’m a person right now where I can talk to you about it, I’ve talked to my good friends about it already, two of them. If I can share my feelings and they see me cry and hear me cry, then I can express myself. Think about her, she doesn’t have anyone. She doesn’t tell her sister, doesn’t tell her dad, doesn’t have a friend to share what’s going on with her. She’s taking it all upon herself. It’s very difficult.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Right, right. What you’re going to be doing with those things is gathering more information.
Listener: Okay.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Once you can take those steps… You know, it’s like a flow chart – did I get a yes or did I get a no? What information did I get and how do I now achieve my next steps with that? You can only anticipate your next move, there’s no way for you to know without going through it.
Listener: And, doctor, if I could ever get her to agree, can you e-mail me some of your fees and what you charge or packages or whatever you might have?
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Absolutely.
Listener: Because I really feel grateful.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, I would love to be a resource and explore that option, and I wish you all the best.
Listener: Thank you.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I believe in this and I believe in what’s possible for you and your relationship, and keep me posted.
Listener: I will, doctor, and thank you so much for your time. I truly, truly appreciate it. God bless you.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: You’re welcome. Take care.
Listener: Bye bye.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Bye.
[Phone call ends]
In this call, I want to point out a couple of things. One, you can’t change your partner. As much as you love them and want the relationship to work and make all the pain go away, you can’t do that work for them and you can’t take on the responsibility for the whole relationship.
Two, you can work with them, being very explicit, which was really largely what I was encouraging this listener to do. If they were willing to address this topic and guide the opportunity, offer the opportunity of “I want to work you. Is this something you want as well?”
Then essentially number three, you’re gathering more information. Because again, I mentioned in the call, coaching, especially on this episode, this podcast, I’m targeting towards relationship dynamics. I’m not really assessing for abuse, mental health issues or addiction issues. However, when we gather more information, then that’s going to become more evident and more clear and then you get into that territory, and you look at “Okay, what do we know about ourselves? Can we understand more of what’s operating here? What’s getting activated in us and in our relationship?” And then you have more information. If you find that there’s an addiction issue or abuse issues or mental health issues, then you want to seek support for that. And people have all kinds of relationships where these things exist. You want to have a little more awareness around what you’re working with.
The other thing is if we’re gathering information and we’re working together we’re going to become more clear about what is mine and what is yours. Typically, when we are struggling in relationship, we are going to be looking at our partner and the things that we have issue about with them. If they would be different or they would do x, y and z then things would be great. But we don’t always look at what’s coming up in myself, what does this bring up in me or how come I’m sensitive to this or how come I tend to overreact or how come I have difficulty responding in the way that I’d like to respond or how come you push these particular buttons in me.
Gathering more information and exploring this as you’re working together, there’s a safety of exploring which is going to allow for what’s yours and what’s mine. Because again, these channels can get very crust and the interference that happens in relationship can be extremely confusing. Am I overreacting? Did I read that right? What’s going on here?
This is very important, because if we continue to see issue in our partner or complain about our partner, then we are in a very disempowered place. We don’t look at what is ours, what we do have control over, what we do have power over, and there is immense richness in that. And again, you don’t want to be in a position where you’re just complaining about your partner, because you’re also participating. Again there’s that sense of feeling victim to, versus feeling empowered about.
Number four, don’t make agreements that you cannot keep, even if it means disappointing your partner, because this is just going to set you up for more betrayal, more disappointment, and more failure.
Essentially, the biggest takeaway in this call, number five, is I’m trying to help foster a new system for dealing with upset. How do we deal with pain and upset and disappointment? How do we both get our needs met when there’s a conflict? And just the understanding that developing a new system together takes time, it takes support, it doesn’t just happen. There’s a lot of reasons why we gravitate towards certain tendencies and certain patterns, and hence that’s where relationship coaching can be really effective.
Again, I’m want to acknowledge the listener that was on this call that shared their personal experience with us so that we can continue our growth and our learning as we are in further dialogue of some of these challenges.
If you would like to access the show notes or even the article that was mentioned, and I believe I’ll post another article that’s something I referenced around developmental stages. The criticism article and the developmental stages article, I will have on the show notes. And you can find the show notes on my website, which is drjessicahiggins.com and you can click on Podcast, find the most recent episode there at the top.
Again, this is episode 76 and you can click and find all of that information there. If you have any comments, if you have any questions, I would love to hear from you. You can e-mail me at [email protected]or you can go to my website, click Contact and find the ways to reach me there.
If you’d like to be on the show, receive live laser coaching with me, let me know, I would love to schedule with you. Again, my website is drjessicahiggins.com, and until next time, I hope you take great care.
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