Hi, thank you for joining today’s podcast episode. Today’s episode is 193, “How to Access “You” (Your True Essence) in Relationship”, an interview with Amy E. Smith.
Before we get started, I wanna acknowledge the path we are on together, and being present and attuned and fulfilled in our relationships. That they’re truly meaningful and provide a sense of safety, and closeness, and happiness, and true intimacy, knowing that that takes a level of investment, and that sometimes we may be challenged – we might feel threatened, or triggered – and that the goal of these conversations on the Empowered Relationship podcast is for you to feel better equipped in navigating those challenges, so that you can transform them, grow them, so that you can have more capacity for this type of relationship that we’re cultivating.
You can find today’s show notes on DrJessicaHiggins.com, you can click on Podcast and find all the episodes listed there. The most recent ones are at the top. Again, today’s episode is 193, “How to Access “You” (Your True Essence) in Relationship”, an interview with Amy E. Smith. On the website you’ll also find other gifts and resources that help you, again, navigate the terrain of long-lasting intimacy, and you’ll also be able to sign up for my newsletter, and you’ll get behind-the-scenes access to some of my experiences, or other tools and exclusive content that you might not get on the podcast, because again, time is limited here, and we have a particular focus at each episode… So I just want you to invite you to become more a part of the dialog by signing up to receive the email newsletter. I’d love to be more in touch with you.
Let’s get started in today’s interview. Amy E. Smith is a certified confidence coach, masterful speaker, and personal empowerment expert. Founder of TheJoyJunkie.com, Amy uses her roles as coach, writer, podcaster, and speaker to move individuals to a place of radical personal empowerment and self-love. With acute focus on helping people “find their voice”, she is highly sought after for her uncommon style of irreverence, wisdom, and humor.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Amy, welcome to the show!
Amy E. Smith: Yay, I’m so excited to connect! Thanks for having me, Jessica.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, it’s such a pleasure to have other voices on the show that are talking about such important relational principles and practices. And your big thing that you focus a lot on is joy, being the joy junkie, yes?
Amy E. Smith: Yes. That’s right, yes.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And for people that don’t know what that is, or haven’t really heard a lot about what you’re up to, can you help people get to know you around what got you into that, being the joy junkie?
Amy E. Smith: Yeah. Well, when I eventually got involved in personal development, I realized that we have this culture that is so obsessed and addicted to all of these various things, whether it’s something really detrimental, like alcohol or gambling or addictions like that, all the way to things like being addicted to our work or to our children at the sacrifice of self, or social media, or things like that, and I thought “How radical would our lives be if we were as addicted to our own happiness and joy as we are to all of these external factors in our world?”
So for me, the joy element has always been the outcome. We know that pretty much everything that we go after in our lives is either in pursuit of pleasure, or avoidance of pain. Those are our great human motivators. So whatever we’re doing, whatever we’re going after, if we’re trying to be partnered or we’re trying to leave a relationship, or we’re trying to get in better shape – no matter what it is, it’s in pursuit of how we want to feel. So joy for me was sort of the end result of what everybody is looking to feel in their life.
So really how my work has evolved – I actually used to work with a very strong relationship focus, by working with just one individual in a partnership… And what became really clear to me after many years of doing it was how much the relationship with yourself influenced how you showed up inside a partnership. And by and large, the biggest thing that people would come to me for would be this idea of “I just wanna be happy” and “I don’t believe that I am enough.” It was a worthiness issue.
There was all these various different types of semantics that people would use – “I don’t feel deserving, I don’t feel like I have value, I don’t feel I’m lovable, I’m not enough, I’m not worthy”, and to me it was all very much wrapped into this nucleus of not-enoughness. So really what I do now is kind of twofold – it’s the internal piece of getting people to this place where they genuinely believe that they are enough, that they have worth and intrinsic value, and then the external component of “Now what does that look like to communicate that with the world? What does that mean as far as saying no? What does that look like as far as tough conversations, or boundaries, or speaking up for yourself?”
It’s all well and good to go like “Oh yeah, I do love myself”, but then what happens when you and your partner are having a baby and somebody wants to rub your pregnant belly and you’re going “Ewgh! That’s rude!” How do you speak up for yourself in those scenarios? I just found that there was a lot of scripting and phrasing that was lacking for people in how to actually give voice to some of those things.
And for me, those two pieces of believing that you’re enough and then being able to communicate that with the outside world in a really powerful way is what equated joy, and what brought you that happiness and that kind of personal power.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I like it that you had this initial draw towards joy and really recognizing that that’s something that almost every human being is really seeking in this more fulfilling way… And through your evolution of work – I’m sure it’s still developing, but you’re really giving people some real avenues to access joy in a really empowered, personal way, that reflects their relationships.
Amy E. Smith: Yeah, and it’s one of those things that — you know, I’m sure you see this all the time. You have such a very specific niche, that people are coming to you saying “I really want just to be happy in my relationship”, and people don’t typically search out support and say “I really just need to work on my core beliefs”, or “I really need to work on my core value system”, or “I think I have a lot of disempowering self-talk.” Nobody says that. They say “I just wanna be happy” or “I want a fulfilling relationship. I wanna be happy in this marriage/partnership.” So for me, that was the search term. That was what everybody was desiring – the outcome, the happiness, the joy, the fulfillment. So yeah, I could not agree more.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Amy, so as you’re talking, you’re hitting on something really important about where our awareness is in respect to the deeper layers that might be operating… And if a listener is hearing you talk about the core beliefs or self-love and how much the way in which we interact with others or the way in which we interact with the world is reflective of our self-love… But a listener might not even know how to gauge “Do I love myself?” That’s not something, like you’re saying, we walk around really having a lot of conscious awareness around. So if somebody is listening and is like “What does that look like?”, what are some indicators for someone that might be struggling with self-love?
Amy E. Smith: Oh, I love that question. That’s a beautiful question. I think that one of the easiest ways to start examining your relationship with self is to view it almost voyeuristically. You can do this in a number of ways – we can view a relationship with our body, let’s say, and almost like we’re a different piece of that, looking at your body like a friend. Or money, how you are in relationship with finances. And if we can personify, almost step outside of ourselves and look at “If I was in relationship with myself, and the way that I’m speaking to myself, the way that I’m feeling…” – because I really think a lot of our self-worth or how we view ourselves is not always in verbal cues inside of our mind; sometimes it is.
Sometimes you hear a very specific narrative, like “That’s not possible for you. You’re not good enough. You’re so disgusting. That’s not realistic.” You hear a very specific verbiage. And then I think for others, your internal knowing comes through emotions and through almost like a visceral feeling. The way that I describe that is if you are, let’s say, cruising through social media and you see somebody who you went to high school with and they look so incredibly successful and happily married, and you’re going through a divorce or something really trying, and you don’t hear words in your head, like “Love is not possible for you” or “You’re not lovable”, but you might get a syncing pit of the stomach feeling…
So I always tell people, “Listen to whatever messaging is coming to you.” If it is through your physicality, listen there and dig in. What about that pit in the stomach feeling – what is that telling me about what I’ve just viewed? What am I making up? What did I just interpret?
And then for others it is very clear words in their mind, where you can hear almost the voice… And that can be extremely easy to catch on to. Oftentimes it’ll be around very specific triggers, like for many of you listening around relationship. So it could be when you see pictures of an ex, or of happy couples, or somebody celebrating a 50-year anniversary, or whatever it might be for you. Usually there’s some sort of entry point, and then you will either hear a voice in your head of what you’ve been triggered by, or some sort of emotional response.
So it’s kind of about taking an inventory of when do those things rise, what are the triggers… Is it when I’m picking up my kid from school, and I see other parents? Is it in social situations, where I have to ask for a +1? What are those kinds of triggers? When does it happen, and then what happens? And it’s in that excavation of what is that feeling, or what is being said in my mind – that’s very indicative of your relationship with yourself. And I’m sure many of us have heard this idea of oftentimes we’re so much more cruel to ourselves than we ever would be to anybody else. So if you can start separating that a little bit and going “Okay, do I speak to myself, or do I have the emotions towards myself like a friend, like somebody I love? Or is it an arch-nemesis?” That can be just a surface way to start tapping into that.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah. And what you’re describing – it sounds like there’s a little bit (like you’re saying) inventory/inquiry into the inner world, that maybe we’re not always paying that close attention… But if what you’re speaking to about the level of joy that results, of fulfillment and happiness – if that’s less than ideal, there could be something to look at around “How am I in relationship with myself?” And there’s some indicators that you’re speaking to around the inner critic, the inner dialogue – is it super-critical? If I were to speak to other people, how would I be in my own company? Would I feel a sense of warmth and support, and encouragement?
Also, looking at what I’m creating – my checkbook, my calendar, and the types of things that are a manifestation perhaps of the way that I’m living, and that those could be telling if we were to look at it with some level of exploration or examination.
When I’m listening to you, there’s something — and I don’t know that I can name it. I’m gonna do my best here… If I imagine myself on social media and I’m seeing something, and if I get a twinge of envy let’s say, for me that could indication of “Oh, there’s some longing there.” Maybe that’s something I want to incorporate, or think about, being inspired by… And that doesn’t necessarily mean that I love myself. It’s just like “Oh…” But then what we do with it – you’re saying this somatic or emotional experience, the verbal inner dialog around “I can’t have that.” So it sounds like there’s something that happens when we get that trigger. Sometimes the trigger exists, but it’s what we do with it that could be telling.
Amy E. Smith: Completely. And I think what you’re pointing to here is this idea of emotional intelligence. We oftentimes will ascribe a feeling as being either bad or good, and that’s not the case. Emotions are simply just messaging to tell us that something is going on. So to your point, the key is to excavate behind that emotion. So if you have sorted that little ping or that little twinge, that is discomfort, it’s uncomfortable, then that’s your indication to go “What just happened just now? Is this envy? Did I go into a place of ‘That’s not possible for me’, which is more indicative of a self-worth thing, or did I go into a place of ‘I desire that. I want that for myself.” That’s where the personal development comes into play, and being able to feel what you feel, which our society tells us not to do that, ever… [laughs] Yet all of our decisions are based off of our emotions. Everything.
So when we feel something like that, I think our gut instinct now is typically to not feel it. If it’s uncomfortable, let’s not feel it. Let’s drink it away, or distract ourselves away, or whatever else it is, so that we don’t really have to do the internal work. And this is one of the things – I’m sure you see this all the time – especially when we’re in relationship with other people, we’re constantly looking at “How can that person be what I need? How can they be fulfilling for me?” instead of looking at “Who am I being in this relationship that’s causing some of these scenarios, or some of this discomfort?” And we don’t do it just specifically in relationship, we do it in all areas of our life, where we do “Oh, I’ll be happy as soon as I achieve this level of success” and “I’ll be happy when I have a child” or “I’ll be happy when I make partner”, or when I lose 20 pounds, or 150 pounds, or whatever it is.
So we put all of this investment in these external forces, instead of looking internally and going “What’s happening for me? What are the drivers here for me? What am I saying to myself? How am I feeling most of the time?” and actually looking inward, instead of externally, because then that gives us the perfect vehicle to blame, which we see all the time in relationships; it’s “Well, everything would be fine if my partner wasn’t such an ass.” It’s like “Hm, there’s some room for some personal responsibility.”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Mm-hm. And I would add to that, in addition to blaming our partner, that we might even blame ourselves. It’s another mechanism to feel not good enough. So if our success or our weight or whatever the external thing is that might perpetuate that inner belief of not good enough or inadequacy — the sensation I’m getting as you’re talking, Amy, is it’s… You know, we’re talking about life, and how dynamic it is, and how we’re gonna get triggered or have interactions that we have a response to, and are we tuning into that… But then the way you’re describing the way we process that internally – it’s this very limiting “I can’t have it. It won’t happen for me”, or even this external focus, it feels a little like… You’re not saying that, but it feels a little victim/passive energy around, like, “Magical thinking. I just want it to happen, but it doesn’t happen, but I’m not really engaging in this creative way… It’s a more hopeful way.” So it seems like it’s this limiting experience that I’m feeling pain, or I’m feeling dissatisfaction, but I don’t believe, perhaps, or it’s not — I don’t know, I feel boxed in, as you’re describing it.
Amy E. Smith: Yeah, it certainly can be. It can be incredibly stifling. Oftentimes when I’m working with my students and clients, they’ll ask “What do you think the biggest factor is in changing the pursuit of pleasure and actually becoming a place where you really do have joy and you really are happy in your life?” And I always say, it comes down to your beliefs about yourself, which then inform your self-talk. So however you’re speaking to yourself, that really does become your reality. And it’s not until we take own– well, for me what it was was really just becoming aware of it.
When I heard even about this idea of an inner critic, and that there could be a different way to speak to myself, and that everything that was running through my head didn’t have to be true, then I kind of went “Oh my gosh, there’s this entire other world available to me, that is so much more powerful, and not limited.” But what we don’t realize is that we form a lot of these beliefs and a lot of this self-talk sub-consciously. We don’t intentionally go “I’m gonna really talk crap to myself about my body” or “I’m gonna tell myself I can’t have the success I desire”, or “I’m gonna tell myself that I’m just not lovable.” Nobody does that. We just incur those beliefs, and then the subsequent self-talk, from all the experiences that we’ve had in our life.
So the brilliant thing about awareness and about being able to get involved in personal development and things of that nature is that you have the conscious awareness to go “Oh, okay, that doesn’t have to be true. Just because I developed this belief does not mean I have to stay attached to it for the rest of my life.” And we know that the brain is quite malleable and that we can change the neural pathways and go in different directions, and I think it really does start with that awareness.
And for me oftentimes it’s how I feel. It’s the emotional awareness of going “Okay, so I’m feeling grief” or “I’m feeling fear” or “I’m feeling sadness, or despair.” Okay, what’s behind this? And starting to look at it and looking at my ownership in that role, and then the steps that I can take to start remedying it.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I love that. I love your passion of just what is available to us if we choose to lean into some of this. Can you give a story? I mean, you’re referencing your own experience, but is there something that could help listeners really connect with in an example?
Amy E. Smith: Sure. I had a client recently where she was really grappling with weight gain. And so the narrative in her mind for ages, when she would look in the mirror, has been — it was very verbal in her mind… “You’re so disgusting, you’re so gross. Your husband would never be attracted to you. You’re going to dismiss him. He’s never gonna want to touch you.” Just an extremely vitriolic way to speak to herself.
Again, if we go back to that idea of “Would you speak to a child like that? Would you speak to a friend? Would you speak to somebody you cared about in that manner?”, that’s very indicative of how solid that relationship is. So as we did a lot of work around belief systems and believing in her own value, and I used some hypnosis (sort of) processes to help anchor into the subconscious, she now will pass the mirror — and she just let me know she’s newer into the program we were going through at the moment, but she said she passed by the mirror and she saw herself naked, and she was like “Oh wow, check you out!”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Oh, nice!
Amy E. Smith: And she said the image that she got in her head was “Oh, you look like one of those classic paintings. One of those beautiful paintings.” So she’s the same woman… That’s what I want everybody to hear – she didn’t lose a massive amount of weight. The only thing that changed was how she decided to see herself. And I think one of the things that we get really stuck in is how quickly we want that to change. And that’s not how the brain operates. That’s just not how it works as far as anchoring something into the subconscious. So it takes massive repetition of saying different to yourself, over and over and over again, before it becomes the new norm.
If we think about it in any other instance… You don’t learn a language by reading a couple of new words and then you automatically have it. You have to practice it, over and over again. Children who want to ride a bike – you have to practice over and over again. The same is true for adopting a new habit about how you view yourself. Now, you don’t have to go “I’m so gorgeous. I’m the most beautiful thing in the world.” I think oftentimes that makes it very hard for us to buy into. But in those situations what I use is something that I call Progressive Language.
I had challenged her to start saying things like “I’m exploring what it would look like to love my body.” Or “I’m entertaining the idea that I have worth beyond my physical body.” Things that are saying “I’m on my way to changing this belief”, not saying “I believe that I’m gorgeous. I believe that I’m amazing.” Something that’s like “I’m on my way” or “I’m exploring” or “I’m open” or “I’m redefining what a healthy body image looks like”, and saying those things over and over and over again, in order to start creating that new neural pathway in the brain, so it becomes the new normal. Yes, there’s an example for you.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I like it. So your client maybe didn’t start with this affirmation [unintelligible 00:25:08.18] was too far-fetched; she found some thing that was like “I’m open to having a positive relationship with my body”, or something to that effect, and then progressively built on that?
Amy E. Smith: Exactly, exactly.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Nice.
Amy E. Smith: And what happened, which was so incredible, is that happened out of nowhere, and it was based off of all of the journaling and the exercises and the various things that we had been working on together. This is one of the things that I tell people all the time – it’s not during the session with your therapist or your coach; it’s not necessarily doing a worksheet or journaling. It’s what you do in the field. I call it fieldwork. It’s what you do when you see yourself in the mirror, it’s what you say to yourself when you see that happy couple walking in the park. It’s switching that thought process in the moment. Those are the things that start to really create habit and change.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I’m getting this feeling of befriending and really gently guiding. It doesn’t have to be this — sometimes we have this inner conflict, and it’s so adversarial, and it’s hard to feel like there can be any compassion of like gently moving… But I love that idea of progressive statements; is that what you said?
Amy E. Smith: Yeah. Yes.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Progressive language… And that we can kind of like “Yeah, okay, I’m working on this… And that’s okay.” It’s real, and it feels acknowledging, but also gentle and leading.”
Amy E. Smith: Yeah, absolutely. There’s two things that I suggest with that. One is what I call progressive language, like I mentioned… Because one of the things that I’ve found in personal development in particular is the huge push for affirmations, which I have no problems with. I think that’s beautiful and incredible. However, if you’re dealing with somebody who is in such a dark place, or really truly believes in their heart that they don’t deserve to be happy in a marriage, or that they’re not lovable, or that they aren’t enough, it’s like asking them to go from A to Z, and to say “Oh, I am enough” or “I am lovable” or “I am deserving of happiness.”
It feels so unbelievably repelling to the brain that the propensity to just throw in the towel is incredibly quick… Like “That doesn’t work. Affirmations don’t work. Forget it.” So using something progressive, even something like “I’m open to what Amy is telling me about body image” – sometimes it’s that that we have to start with. Like “I’m willing to trust what Amy is saying, or what Jessica is saying.” It might be that. Or “I’m exploring this other idea.”
Beyond progressive language, one of the other things that you can do is what I like to call disclaimer, or add an addendum, where you say a positive affirmation – any type of affirmation that you want – but you disclaimer it, and you say something like “Even though this hasn’t quite taken hold yet, I believe that I am deserving of love.” Or “Even though this feels so silly, I’m entertaining the idea that I am worthy of happiness”, or whatever it might be. So you can do it either preliminarily, as a disclaimer, or an addendum at the end, like “I believe that I am enough, even though that feels really silly.”
But what I encourage you to do is use on either end of that languaging that is really light. What I mean by that is to not say something like “Even though this is unbelievably foolish and stupid, I believe that I am enough.” So you can’t use a word that’s so powerful like that and heavy, but to use something more like “Even though this hasn’t quite taken hold” or “Even though I’m not fully bought in, I’m working on believing that I am enough.” Something like that. That’s sort of an NLP concept around how words carry more potent impact, so making sure that whatever you’re saying to yourself has the most powerful words around it.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes. And it sounds like there’s something about what you’re describing that allows people to not only access it, cognitively, like “I can actually believe this”, but so many people even can believe it, but if they don’t have an emotional connection, it’s not gonna have as big of a change effect in their life. So it sounds like what you’re offering is something that they can actually access intellectually, but also even emotionally buy into and connect with.
Amy E. Smith: Yes, absolutely. Well, I mean, speaking of NLP, anyone who’s familiar with that – sort of another modality in the field of self-help and personal development; Neurolinguistic Programming. I’m not sure if you’ve had anybody on the show who specializes in that… But what’s so great about it is it works with tying your emotional self into the cognitive self. Something that you can do very easily is get yourself into a really positive, uplifting emotional state, and then once you’re there — an example would be watch TV programming that just makes you laugh your ass off, or go through your children’s baby books, where you’re just so filled with love and just overcome, and where you’re in a really great state. Or go outside on a hammock and just feel free and peaceful. And then, in those moments, then say something kind to yourself. And you can even start anchoring it in through various movements of the hands… I’m not gonna get super-involved in that.
But even if you experience a positive, uplifting emotion and then say positive things to yourself in the midst of that, you can help anchor sort of that relationship between the cognitive and then the emotional self.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I like that. And I know you don’t wanna give a lot of descriptors around anchoring, but can you tell people what you mean by that?
Amy E. Smith: Sure. Basically, this is about creating some sort of structure in the body where it’s basically reflecting and creating an anchor point, almost like you would think about casting an anchor to hold a ship in place; it’s doing some sort of movement with your hands at the same time that you’re experiencing that emotion and saying that phrase to yourself to lock it in… So that when you’re in other scenarios, you can do that same motion and access – because our brain will follow suit, because it starts to create this association – so that when you’re in a really uncomfortable situation, you could do that same movement, that same anchor, and call forth the memory of that emotion, or that positive well-being.
The very common one is just the index finger and the thumb pressed together… But it’s very important that you don’t do that unless you are really in that state that you want to cast your anchor. But that can be a great thing… Imagine you’re going to see a play, and you’re laughing your ass off, and it’s amazing, and you’re just so — just take a second, close your eyes, feel that incredible intensity of that emotion, tell yourself something powerful, and then just pinch your fingers together. Just have that little bit of a moment. And then use that same pinching of the fingers together in a situation when you need to call forth that same emotion.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: It’s almost like a shortcut. We’ve built up so much connection and association that in a different time and place we might be able to do that gesture or that movement or that word, and it allows us to access that experience we’ve developed.
Amy E. Smith: Absolutely. Shortcut is a great way to put it.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I have the imagery — I do have regard for Tony Robbins; I’m not a big follower, but I did watch his documentary several months ago, and he’s super-big on getting into his movement, and the embodiment, and his gesture… It’s so powerful to be able to use it. And the more you use it, like you’re saying, the more connection we have to it and the more we can access the strength of it.
Amy E. Smith: Absolutely.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I know we don’t have a ton of time, so I wanna make sure I give a little voice to what does this look like, once we have started building this self-love or this self-worth – what does this look like in relationship? Can you speak about that at all?
Amy E. Smith: Sure. I think one of the things that really shifts once you are a bit more grounded in a sense of self, and value who you are, love who you are, you’re able to show up much more powerfully inside of relationships, and I think that goes in tons of different areas. I think it shows up sexually, I think it can show up very much in the field of communication… I know you’ve just recently had somebody talking about how to deal with tough conversations… And I don’t think it’s even limited to tough conversations in an intimate partnership. I think when you truly believe in your own worth, and that you are enough and lovable, you’re able to have tough conversations at work, and advocate for yourself with your subordinates, or with your bosses, or even with your children.
Again, we look all outside of ourselves, like “I just need to fix my marriage”, and we forget to look at the internal components of “Okay, what would shift if I really showed up in a powerful way and if I really did love who I was, and then was able to communicate from that standpoint?” Boundaries are affected. Your ability to say “Hey, this is not okay with me.” And I think a lot of what happens is the ability to not waiver on the things that are really important to you, and that you need to give voice to inside of a relationship.
And also, even friendships. There’s a million and one books about intimate partnership, but nobody tells us how to have tough conversations or have no or have boundaries with friendships. But I do think that it’s incredibly important to have that powerful relationship with yourself in order to have that communication be rock solid.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, I couldn’t agree with you more… And as I’m listening, I’m just like “It’s real relationship”, right? There’s a level of intimacy when we have been willing to tune in, connect, and be able to honor what’s there, then in relationship we can allow people to see us more clearly and more fully… Because when we’re all external and trying to make sure our body, our physique is a certain way, so we’re acceptable, or our bank account, or whatever it is that gives us that likelihood of being accepted and loved – those are all false, external criteria. We always have this kind of sinking worry that “If I didn’t have all these things, would they still love me? Is it because of that?” So when we can really show who we are, we get to feel the presence and the intimacy, and it shows up in sex, in friendships, in work… Is that what I’m hearing you say?
Amy E. Smith: Absolutely. Here’s one of the big distinctions though… I’m not at all saying that once you really gain a lot of self-love or self-worth, that then you become void to pain. You could still really love who you are and be absolutely hurt by something that your partner says. And there’s this incredible quote by Madonna actually, that says “Power is being told you are not loved, and not being destroyed by it.” And she’s not saying that you won’t feel it. So there’s a very difference between “Man, that hurts”, and the difference between “I was destroyed.” So what I love to say is “Wow, this situation sucks, but I don’t suck.” That conversation hurts, but that does not have to mean that I’m not valuable. So often we collapse the two.
“If my partner is critical, that must mean that I’m not lovable, or valuable”, instead of just going “Wow, that was really hurtful”, and examining it through the lens of emotional intelligence. And that’s definitely not something we can sum up in a quick episode… But it does take a lot of work, and ability to look at that and untangle yourself from your circumstances. You don’t have to love that things are tough financially, but that doesn’t have to mean that you are an awful human. It just means the situation kind of sucks. We’re up against something trying.
When you are really anchored into that place of “I matter”, you are far more resourceful and creative, and able to get out of tough situations or to converse with a partner that you’re at odds with, than if you are rooted in a bunch of self-doubt, because then that tends to make you an incredible people pleaser, “I need to do anything to make this person love me or like me”, or “I need to twist and contort and be this totally different person to gain affection or attraction from others”, instead of going “Okay, here’s who I am. Now how do I find the support that I need around that?”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes. You did such a great model; I don’t know if you’re even aware of it… This “I’m hurting”, or “This situation is challenging” and earlier when we started this interview we were talking about how often we will blame our significant other, or wanting them to be something so that we can feel okay… And the way I’m hearing you use language from a place of self-worth or self-love, even in a really painful situation, is the willingness to acknowledge it, possibly without blame or attack towards the other. Am I hearing that right?
Amy E. Smith: Absolutely. And again – this really keeps coming back – I personally feel like most of our problems in this world could be solved if everyone understood emotional intelligence… [laughs] And if we taught children at a young age about how to navigate fear, and anger, and all of those things… Because most of the time when we feel something, we just become incredibly reactive, and our most easily accessible reaction is anger, which is a secondary emotion, meaning that it’s typically cloaking a primary emotion underneath.
When you’re extremely angry at your partner because they didn’t pay a bill, let’s say, or because you think they were flirting with somebody or something to that nature, and you’re coming at the situation with anger, that’s not usually what’s really happening. Underneath it’s disappointment, it’s sadness, it’s despair… It could be a whole slew of things. It could be guilt, shame, whatever it might be. But that’s where that intelligence comes into play, is understanding “I am allowed to feel what I feel.” Those are never, ever wrong. However, you are always responsible for your behavior.
So you can feel angry all damn day, but you’re still gonna be responsible for going to key your partner’s car. You can’t go do that. But if you have that awareness – and this is something my husband and I do quite a bit – it is calling out where we are, and just saying “I am incredibly upset right now. I am so angry. I cannot converse about this right now.” And then we have this commitment that we separate, we part ways for at least a couple of hours, and then we do what we need to do to expel the anger and to figure out what the root issue is.
Usually, the bill that didn’t get paid, or the tax to somebody flirting with somebody – that’s the surface issue. The root issue is what’s really happening in how both people feel inside the relationship.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Mm-hm. “I’m afraid you don’t care about me”, “I’m afraid you’re not there for me”, “Are you gonna leave me?”, or something very deep…
Amy E. Smith: Right. “You don’t [unintelligible 00:42:05.23] back to me. I feel dismissed in this marriage. I don’t feel like you value what I do…” Yeah, it can be a whole slew of things. But we usually fight about the dishes, or the blinds, or the surface issue, and what we really need to talk about is the root issue, which we could go on and on for another hour on that one.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes. Amy, how can people get in touch with what you’re up to?
Amy E. Smith: Well, my little corner of the internet is TheJoyJunkie.com. I spend most of my time on social media on Instagram, and kind of do little mini-blogs over there… But over at TheJoyJunkie.com you’ll see that I have complementary workshops that you can take, and workbooks that are also in audiobook format… So there’s tons of ways to get to know me a little bit more. I will tell you that my personal brand is incredibly sassy and in-your-face. I’m a bit of a sailor in how I speak, so be forewarned… But I do have a podcast as well. Usually, what I say is you’ll know very quickly I’m either for you or not for you, and that’s totally fine with me. [laughs]
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Nice. And what’s the podcast called?
Amy E. Smith: It’s called The Joy Junkie Show.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Awesome.
Amy E. Smith: My partner of 22 years is my co-host, and he likes to say he’s the voice of the people… So we have a great time, and we do discuss a lot of these same concepts about self-love and speaking up, and boundaries, and dealing with your family during the holidays, and all of those nefarious situations we get ourselves in.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: No kidding, no kidding… I’m so appreciative of what you’re sharing today, your insight, your understanding, and just your voice that you’re contributing to this oh-so-ever important venture we’re in.
Amy E. Smith: Thank you so much. I appreciate so much you opening your virtual home to me, and letting me hang out.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I love it. Great!
I hope you have enjoyed today’s episode. Again, 193, “How to Access “You” (Your True Essence) in Relationship”, an interview with Amy E. Smith. I so appreciated her sass, and her playful but knowledgeable and grounded insight and understanding in helping provide a different voice. I just appreciate these interviews, because so often we’re saying similar things, but the way in which we’re guiding people and the way we’re articulating and the stories we tell and the way we describe is also very different… So I just hope that you are enjoying these interviews as we are getting insight and knowledge, as people share their time with us on the Empowered Relationship Podcast.
If you want access to today’s show notes, you can go to DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast, and you can find all the episodes there.
Until next time, I hope you take great care.
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