Hi, thank you for joining today’s podcast episode. Today’s episode is 205, “How to overcome money issues and create more abundance in your relationship”, an interview with Simone Milasas.
Before we get started, I wanna take a moment and center into the intention of the Empowered Relationship Podcast. As I do so, I wanna invite you to check in on your intention, perhaps connecting with what it is that perhaps you’re interested in receiving as you listen to this episode.
The intention of the Empowered Relationship Podcast is to help you feel better-equipped, more prepared, as you navigate the terrain of long-lasting intimacy. The intention is to offer you support, strategies, resources for you to consider, again, as you develop deeper levels of intimacy and connection.
One of the things I invite on this show is that as you grow your relationship, as you increase the development of your connection with your significant other, it also invites us to grow ourselves individually.
Sometimes we might encounter difficulties, or hardships, or fear, and I’m inviting you to consider this as curriculum for your development… Because so often it’s not so much “Is there an upset that determines the success of the relationship?” but it’s how we deal with the upset that determines the success in relationship.
If you would like access to today’s show notes, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast, and you can find all of the episodes listed there. Again, today’s episode is 203, “How to overcome money issues and create more abundance in your relationship”, an interview with Simone Milasas. Let’s get started in today’s episode.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Simone Milasas is an international speaker and author of Joy of Business, Getting Out of Debt Joyfully; her third book “Relationship: Are You Sure You Want One?” co-authored with Brendon Watt, inspired others to know that relationship can be a choice, not a necessity, and is full of practical tips and tools to create an ease and joy-filled relationships not just with others, but with oneself.
Welcome to the show, Simone. It’s such a great pleasure to have you today!
Simone Milasas: Thank you, Jessica. Thank you for having me.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I would love for you to share a little bit about what got you interested in looking at the topic of finance as it relates to intimacy and relationship, if you’re open to sharing a little bit about your process and journey to get into this field.
Simone Milasas: Yeah, I worked with a company called Access Consciousness, and traveled around the world doing seminars, and I started off actually doing seminars on a book that I wrote called Joy of Business, and then a second one called Getting Out of Debt Joyfully, and it’s about money. I love talking about business and money; it’s two of my favorite topics.
Then as I was traveling around the world, I was also with my ex-partner, Brendon Watt. We had a great relationship for like eight years, and a lot of people asked us about how we created our relationship, and they wanted to know more… So then we started doing some telecalls, and started talking about it etc. Because we got on so well, and we never had a fight etc. and there was a lot of stuff that went on financially.
Just as a really small story, one of the things that occurred throughout our relationship – we were laughing about it the other day. We bought this house – the first house that we bought – and we’re sitting on the steps after we bought the house, and then Brendan told me about how he had all this debt, and he owed the government all this money for tax… And I looked at him and I went “Isn’t that something that you tell someone before you buy a house with them?” and he went “I guess so…” And there were so many things that showed up financially with us.
I was definitely the breadwinner in the family, which is not so unusual nowadays, I’ve gotta say… But the stereotypical thing is that the man is supposed to bring home the money… So there’s a whole lot of things that went with that and the finances… And what we chose, and how we got through it, and how we created something greater, and a lot of people asked about that too, and still do… So we do seminars and classes etc. on talking about that… Because I would like everyone to have as much freedom as they can in all these areas.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, there’s so much in that that we could even just break down… But just to give context – so you’re no longer in relationship with him? Is that right?
Simone Milasas: That’s correct. We were in relationship for eight years, and the book “Relationship: Are you sure you want one?”, which is a question, as we released that book, we actually broke up the relationship… Which was pretty interesting. Our PR agent was like “Oh my goodness, what are you doing?” but you know what – it was a choice that we made, and it’s worked for both of us. So yes, it’s been just over a year now, I think.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Gotcha. And it sounds like you guys still work together.
Simone Milasas: We do. I mean, we just did a Relationship Done Different seminar in Vienna, Austria, and we had so much fun together. We actually really get on very well together and have a great honoring of each other… So yeah, we do. We’re unusual, we’re different.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Well, there’s a lot of consciousness in the way you’re describing it, and I know that’s not what we’re really here to talk about, so I’ll pivot the conversation… But I just acknowledge that there’s some real intention perhaps around how you guys are making these decisions, and what informs that… So let me pivot – when you’re talking about the financial terrain and some of the obstacles or hardships that you encounter, do you feel like you guys really did transform or overcome a lot of those roadblocks?
Simone Milasas: I do, Jessica. And I’ve gotta say, there’s such a level of vulnerability that goes with that… Because I think you’ve gotta look at what’s important to you in a relationship. If people make it about money, then your relationship will always have money hanging over it. Money should be something that you create together, or you create and it contributes to the relationship, but not making it about that.
We went through so many different phases, from — I mean, we refused to admit we were in relationship for a while, and then we used to definitely separate everything. We were like flatmates almost, until we sort of went “Okay, this isn’t really working.” Because I traveled so much, and I missed Brendan, so I wanted him to come… So then I was like “Well, what if I buy your ticket?” Then we ended up creating a different financial relationship, or what we like to refer to as a “creationship”.
So we’ve been through many different phases, I would say, and when we come out at the end of eight years being together, the wealth that we created together was so much greater than a lot of people that I see around us… And I’ve gotta say, we are still creating financial wealth together. That was one of the choices that we looked at and went “Okay, do we wanna split everything? What do we wanna do?” And we created a world together, that we went “But why wouldn’t we continue doing this?” and we asked questions every day; it’s not like we just put it into the Assume Box. We’d go “Okay, is this working? Does this investment work? Does this investment work? How do we wanna look at this?”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Great. So it sounds like you guys are very much still in relationship in the business perspective/sector, but also there’s a lot of investments you have together still.
Simone Milasas: Yeah, there is. And like I said, I see people destroy themselves over finance, and… It’s just money. That shouldn’t occur. It’s like, “What do you wanna create in your life?” and if you did have this honoring of each other…
One of the things that we refer to in our book is the five elements of intimacy, which is having that vulnerability with each other, the trust, the honor, the allowance, and the honoring that you have with each other. So what if you had that when you’re in relationship, which includes money, and you also have it if the relationship breaks up? So it’s really about having that relationship with yourself and knowing what it is you wanna choose, and never actually dismissing yourself in a choice.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes. Okay, so you’re talking about what money can symbolize and how to get into a positive relationship with yourself, and how it’s expressed perhaps through money and money being a form of currency, but that really connects so closely to our creativity and our co-creation… But if we can kind of go back – I’m just curious… So often people think of money as a part of their relationship, and perhaps even compartmentalize it, and have some blocks about approaching that topic, because it feels so conflictual… Perhaps the differences of approach. What do you typically see around what people are getting blocked with, or challenged with in even approaching money?
Simone Milasas: I’m gonna say the trust in themselves and the trust in their partner… And I’m not saying trust as in blind faith; I’m saying trust that your partner is gonna choose what they’re gonna choose. I was actually talking to someone the other day and they’re recently divorced, and their ex was saying “You’re unreliable with this etc.” And they said “As long as it doesn’t happen again…” But I was like “Well what part of — that’s how you’ve been for nine years…”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: [laughs] Right, they’re pretty consistent.
Simone Milasas: Yeah, and we were laughing about it… It’s like, for her to think that he’s gonna change after that time whenever they even split up… So it’s not about judging the other person, but be aware of them. For me, since I was a kid, my father taught me about finances. When I was 18 years of age, he was like “Get your credit rating good.” So that was one of the things that my father definitely passed on to me – be aware of your finances. Even though I did create debt, I was still very aware of my finances… And then one of the things I noticed with Brendan was he would put his head in the sand. He was the sort of person who would — you know, you got an envelope that looked like a bill, and he would put it in the drawer rather than look at it.
Literally, I had a conversation with him at one point and I went “What did you think was gonna happen?” and he went “Well, somewhere I thought that if I’d put it in the drawer, that it would go away.” And I was like “Wow.” But that’s how he functioned for a very long time, even when I was with him. So it would be stupid of me to think that because I was with him he was gonna change his point of view overnight.
Did he change his point of view? Yes. But I think if you expect your partner to be something that they’re not, that’s what’s gonna roadblock, that’s what’s gonna trap you. You’ve gotta be willing to have a look at what’s in front of you. For me, it’s like, I knew my finances and I knew what I was creating, and then Brendan was very good at spending money… And at one point, I actually said to him “Hey, can I sit down with you and can I show you my finances?” Because he was great at spending money… So I showed him all the bank accounts and I said “This is the money that’s coming in, this is the money that’s going out.” And I literally said to him “Hey, I need help if we’re gonna create something together here.” And when I showed him and gave him all the information, he was like “Wow. Okay…”
I mean, a big trick is ask a man to help you, because they love to help you… Ask a man to help you, and they’ll do everything they can to do something and start contributing. So it was little things like that that I used to put in his way, so that he could look at it, but not expecting to. So I think if you don’t trust you and where you’re functioning from, and trust your partner that they are gonna function where they’re functioning from, and not expect them to be something that they are not.
I mean, did you marry them for their finances, or did you marry them– and some people may have… Or are you with them because you actually really like this person as a being? As I said, money is just money, and it creates so much havoc, and it shouldn’t. It should be something that you can talk about.
I have a friend of mine, Jessica – I think this is hilarious… She told me that when her and her husband have a problem with money, what their rule is is they get naked, and then talk about it. I was like “That’s brilliant!” [laughs]
Dr. Jessica Higgins: No kidding…
Simone Milasas: I was like, “That’s great.” So they’re sitting there naked, talking about money. It sort of takes the significance out of it. So I was like “That’s a great tool. I love that.”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And I think it speaks to some of the energy that I’m hearing you describe, and I’ll just check it out with you, which is instead of leading with judgment or expectation, or a sense of righteousness, that there’s the curiosity and the wondering and really holding space for understanding your significant other, and perhaps even understanding yourself… Because there’s times where I even have awareness around my own ways of operating as it relates to money, and I’m like “Oh…!” Even now, I have a lot of student loan, and I’m like “I don’t think I knew this…” I mean, I’ve been paying on them for like ten years, and I’m like — there’s just some awakening around my process, too. But if we have that non-judgmental space and the trust in the alliance maybe, and the trust in our good intentions, and like you’re saying, that process of creating, then maybe it’s not so threatening. And I love the getting naked, because that takes a lot of the defenses and the interferences out, that like “I’m gonna be raw here.”
Simone Milasas: Yes, absolutely. It’s like taking the judgment totally out of it. And I think there’s some places that you’ve gotta get a little pragmatic as well. One of the tools that we talk about – this is absolutely brilliant – and I know people listening may not do it, and then they may listen again later and do it, because it’s… But get an Excel spreadsheet, or a Google Doc or something, or just write down on a piece of paper – sit down with your partner and write down everything that it costs to run your life. And I’m talking do you like to go out to dinner twice a week, or do you like to drink expensive champagne, or cheap champagne? Do you wanna get pedicures and manicures? How do you wanna live your life? Not how do you wanna live on a budget, how would you actually like to live your life? And get everything down – all the bills, the telephone bills, the car etc.
Then write down how much it costs to run your life monthly, and then what I suggest is get a profit and loss statement from your bookkeeper or your accountant, so that you can look at that and then say… For example, you go “Okay, it’s $200 to buy gas each month for the car”, but when you actually look at the car costs in a profit and loss, you realize it’s more than $200 because you got new tiers that year, or there’s a registration or insurance, and it ends up being $280/month. If you get that cost and divide it by 12, then you’ll know your monthly expense.
Even at one stage Brendan and I were spending a lot of money on Christmas; we used to go away on these big trips. So it was like “Okay, instead of putting all of that in the month of December, what if we got that amount of money and divided it by 12, and knew that each month that was the money that we were having towards Christmas?”
So then you get the amount of money that it costs to run your life together. Add 20%, because you never know what shows up, and then have a look at that and have a look at the amount of money that comes in. The first time I did this, it was $8,000/month. And I remember sitting and thinking “Oh, my goodness. How am I gonna make $8,000/month?” And then I freaked out for like ten minutes, and I sat at my kitchen bench, poured myself a glass of wine, and went “Alright, now what’s it gonna create this?”
Then I started getting creative of what I could do and what I could institute to have this $8,000 or more to show up. What Brendan and I did was we did this every six months together. And we would usually have some champagne, or a glass of wine, or something. Make it this joyous occasion, not this homework. Make it a joyous occasion that you have a look at your expenses… Because your life changes.
Brendan had a son, so I had a stepson… So even the schools he went to changed over the years, so there were more expenses. So then you need to create more. Have a look at that expense column and say “Do we need all this? Yes? Okay. That’s how we’d like to live our life, and greater, so then what else can we create? What else can we add to our lives?” Then you start to play with the finances together as well, to create something greater.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So does this pull in the vision? Because what you’re describing is how we wanna live, versus what we can afford, and then how to create more financial wealth or abundance to support that. Is that right?
Simone Milasas: Yeah, absolutely. Because if you don’t ask for it, how is it gonna show up? I always look at it like — it’s like going to a restaurant, and you’ve got the menu and the waiter comes over, but if you don’t ask for anything, he’s not gonna deliver anything to you, except a glass of water. So it’s like, yeah, if you start asking and start looking at it… How many people try and live — and I know that this goes against what this reality and this society says, but how many people try and live with a budget? And I’m not saying be ignorant about your finances, I’m saying step outside your comfort zone and ask for something greater, ask for something more, and then you can create that together.
We played with so many different things… We had a stock portfolio, that for me was really fun; I really liked playing on the stock exchange. I tried currency trading and I didn’t like it… We’ve got a few real estate investments… There’s different things that you can do. Don’t define yourself by this one job that you have, that’s Monday to Friday and 9 to 5 – although I hardly know anyone who has a Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 job anymore… But don’t define yourself by that; it’s like, what else can show up? What else can you create together? And it doesn’t have to be together two people, either. It could just be we ask this question and then maybe I go off and do something, or Brendan goes off and does something… But it has this mindset that it is a creation that is contributing to both of us.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I like the quality of this, because it assumes almost that there is possibility and potentiality, and if we are connecting with how we wanna live, then it’s like “Okay, how do I cultivate or up-level to support this?” But what do you think some of the keys are in bridging that gap, because I imagine it’s not just putting it into the spreadsheet and then thinking about how to create more finances or wealth to support that. There’s usually some process. Can you speak to that at all?
Simone Milasas: Yeah, and I’m gonna say it’s a lot — I think it’s somehow a lot easier than most people would think… Because even doing that spreadsheet, there’s a clarity that comes up. And what I’ve noticed over the years is if I choose to be clear on something, then I can create something and I can change something. It’s when you choose not to be aware of something that you can’t change it.
So as soon as you actually start to get aware of your finances and you know what your ask is, then things start to change. And also coming out of judgment. You mentioned that before, and I think that’s one of the biggest killers. If you wake up in the morning and choose failure, that’s what you create. If you wake up in the morning and choose success, that’s what you create.
I know that sounds so cliché, and yet it is how you create your day. Your point of view creates your reality, and if you don’t know what your point of view is, that creates your own financial reality, your own relationship, then this reality will create it for you and starts to put you in this box of what it should be, rather than like “Hey, what is it YOU would like to create?”
For me, a couple of the key things is get clear. Get clear on your finances and get clear on what it is that you’d like in your relationship as well. Don’t expect something of your partner that is not possible for them to deliver… And then talk to them. I’m sorry, but I’m allowed to say this, because I’m a female – but females are so good at doing subtext.
I was talking to this friend of mine the other night and saying how [unintelligible 00:21:50.13] and we were laughing about it, how many women do this thing of not saying what it is that they desire, and yet expecting the men to get it… And the men are just like “Can you please tell me what it is you want? Because I have no idea.” Subtext doesn’t work, it only creates this conflict.
One of the scariest things in the world to a man is “Can we have a chat?” It’s like, is there a way that you could broach the subject to say “Hey…” [unintelligible 00:22:20.26] I said to Brendan — we were probably like five years into our relationship, and I said “Hey, can we chat about money?” He was like “Sure.” I said “Because I’m getting a little weird about it.” He’s like, “Okay, so what’s weird?” and it was the fact that I was earning so much more money and he was really good at spending it, but that’s what I spoke about… And he looked at me and he went “I’m sorry, I thought we had this conversation before.” I said “What do you mean?” and he said “I thought that my money was my money and your money was our money”, and the way he said it, I just cracked out laughing… I was like “Oh, my goodness…”
He was right in a way, because he was so supportive of me… He was an amazing chef. The amount of nights I would sit at home, at the kitchen bench, with my computer, because Europe was waking up, at 5, 6, 7 o’clock, and he would be cooking dinner and organizing all of that… And he was the one who organized all the renovations of our houses, and did everything like that. So he was such a contribution… Not financially, in bringing home the money and putting it in the bank, but he created so much with the money that I was contributing as well… And you’ve gotta look at that. It’s not A+B=C. It’s not linear. It’s like, “Are both people being a contribution to each other in creating something greater?”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I love, love, love the recognition of the fuller picture, and how we’re contributing, and it doesn’t necessarily have to look exactly the same… And I couldn’t agree with you more, that so often we’re hoping that our significant other gets the memo or understands and can interpret… And so often it’s so confusing… And it is vulnerable to really speak in that really coherent, core request of “I need help” or “I’m feeling stressed, and I would love…” whatever that is. That usually brings attention to that deeper need, and then we can get our creative energy around that.
I’m wondering, for you – you mentioned just the stereotype of a man and what he contributes, and kind of the identity, or even the boost around that… Do you have to talk about that as much? I know sometimes I’ve heard women talk about the ego, or how it can be emasculating… Can you speak to that at all?
Simone Milasas: Yeah, I think I was really lucky, because neither Brendan nor I had this fixed point of view about it… And even at one stage, when — I mean, he moved in with me, and at once stage he hated doing what he was doing. He was a [unintelligible 00:25:01.09] and he hated it, hated going to work… And I said to him, “Hey, why don’t you take some time off and figure out what it is that you actually wanna do? Because you’re living here, I’m paying the rent, I’ve got this.” And he did, and he actually took about a year off, and I fully supported him, the dog, his son etc. and gave him that space… And he would create things here and there, but he totally looked after — like, he was the househusband; he looked after everything at home.
Then he actually did get to explore a lot of different things that he would like to do and be. And now, it’s like — you know, he’s becoming hugely successful, traveling around the world, doing seminars and working with Access Consciousness as well… But it gave him the chance to do that.
I never put upon him that he was bad or terrible for not bringing home money. I mean, I did use to do things — one of the things I did, which is actually written in our book… Because I wanted to have him have his own money, rather than be like “Here’s $200” or “Here’s money for shopping”, because I think that can be quite demeaning, to be handing out money, rather than just having it… So one of the things I did one day which was hilarious was I paid him for sex. And he was like “Really?” and I was like “Yeah.” So I did, and can I say, Jessica, that sex was amazing, and then he had his own money. It was great. It was a great tool to use, if you are in that sort of situation.
I’ve given that tool to so many different women and they’ve done it and come back to me and going “Oh my god, that was amazing.” And then what he did with that money – I gave him $500 – was he went and got a massage, so that was on him, and then he went bought us these really beautiful bottles of wine, and bought us dinner etc. And I was like, “Okay, cool.” So he got to choose what he was doing with that money, but he earned some money. So yeah… Spice it up, do what you’ve gotta do. [laughs]
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Now, did you talk about that, or was that just something that was more spontaneous?
Simone Milasas: Oh, it was more spontaneous. Because it was one night that I actually wanted to have sex and he was like “Meh…” And I went “What if I pay you?” And then I was like, “Ah, this is gonna work.” And he was like “Okay.”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: That’s so great, just playing with that.
Simone Milasas: Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So you guys had some clear agreements, and you talked a moment ago about recognizing other contributions… And I realize in Western culture, in America, sometimes there’s this real value on financial wealth, and somehow that can seem more significant than domestic duties… Did you have to remind yourself of these contributions and how they were both really valuable, or was that ever an issue?
Simone Milasas: I’m gonna say yes. I guess there was somewhere that I would have to remind myself. Brendan was actually in the top 100 master chefs in Australia, so he’s an incredible cook… I really got to experience some–
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah, if I were to put some money financially on what I’m doing… [laughter]
Simone Milasas: Exactly. Yeah, so I really got the contribution he was at home, because it was definitely — I mean, I’m not a good cook. I can make you a great salad… And I work a lot of hours, and I work really odd hours, because I work with the world… So it was such a huge difference to me when I was living with him and how much he did contribute to the household that I definitely did notice that.
We still had a cleaner in the house, because neither of us liked cleaning the bathroom etc. So we would get a cleaner for a few hours a week… But I was definitely acknowledging the contribution that he was, because I noticed the change and I noticed the difference. And he was so honoring of me and so grateful that I — like, I saw him.
He spoke about it the other day in his seminar that we did, and had people in tears at the seminar, because he was saying “How often do you get someone that is willing to give you the space that you get to choose something?” And he had a pretty interesting background, he had a lot of abuse growing up, so that’s what he was used to, that energy… So when he came across me, he was like “Oh my goodness, this person just thinks I’m awesome and amazing, and wants to show me how awesome and amazing I am and give me that space to be me.”
So like I said, we were always so grateful for each other, and had this huge honoring of “What would you like?” And we always said to each other “Hey, if you desire something different and it’s not working out, can we not make it that we end this in this trauma and drama? Can we sit down and celebrate with each other and say ‘Hey, thanks so much. Have done what were meant to do together.” Did it happen as easy as that? No… And yet, we continuously went “Alright, what’s gonna create this to be easier?” and worked on our friendship and worked on what was occurring and how we could break the relationship up in an easier way.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, and there’s so many things that I know we’re not speaking to that what you’re describing. It requires the dialogue, the curiosity, really building awareness and sharing in a vulnerability… And I acknowledge that, and I get that it’s not easy, and we’re just kind of scratching the surface here in some of this…
Simone Milasas: Well, I think the one thing I would say is never ever give up on yourself. If you have a great relationship with you, then you can have a great relationship with somebody else. But if you rely on somebody else to be the source of creation for you, then that’s when you end up getting yourself in trouble. But if you’re happy with you, then there’s so much more you can create.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Thank you for saying that too, because I feel like as you were describing some of your journey together and his appreciation for the space that you supported for him to really be an exploration, I do know some stories where perhaps men could get caught into “I’m not producing a lot of income”, or just getting a little stuck in maybe some negative thoughts about themselves, and it sounds like he really took that opportunity to give to the family with you, and the home, as well as pursue some of his own development.
He had a lot of skill already that he had cultivated in the chef industry, but some people don’t get into the creative energy and there’s a lot of things that get brought up in that… For you, it sounds like you continue to see him in a really positive light, and I know there’s some stories where it could affect your attraction towards him, seeing him in his power and in his creative energy… And if you’re not seeing that, then that can sometimes run the edge of feeling like you’re in a parental role if you’re providing, and you guys aren’t doing this work…
Simone Milasas: [laughs] Yeah. And I’ve gotta say… Please get, everyone – those bumpy parts that occurred, and yet we were willing to face them head on. I know there’s one story we write in our book when Brendan was so depressed and so unhappy… And I’m a really good morning person, and I wake up and I’m like “Right, let’s create.” That’s how I wake up.
And it was like three days, he was sitting on the couch, watching TV and pretty much doing nothing. And I was waking up and creating and just living my life. And after three days he looked at me and he went “Will you stop being so happy?” I looked at him and I went “No?” And he went “Do you know how hard it is to live with someone who’s so happy when you’re trying to be depressed?” And it was so funny we both just cracked up. We were like “Really? That’s where you’re at?” But I allowed him to sit there for three days, and sort of check in and go “Hey, do you need anything?” and he’d be like “No…” I was like, “Alright, well I’m gonna keep creating.”
I see so many times in relationships that if someone is being sad and depressed, the other person tries to do these vibrational equivalents to them to justify they’re depressed, rather than — I was like “Hey, if you wanna be like that, that’s cool. I’m here, and I’m gonna keep creating.” I think that’s really imperative that you don’t duplicate what your partner is being. You allow them to be that, because sometimes you need to. Sometimes you need to be angry or frustrated or going through something… So allow that person to have that, but don’t make you less-than because of it.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes. I can feel that in myself, where my husband has down moments, and I do feel like there’s a space where I wanna empathize and kind of emotionally be with him… But I can’t, that’s not where I’m at, so – how to feel like I’m not abandoning him, but continuing my creation or my vibration, even when he’s still in process with something that feels more down or difficult… It’s a balance.
Simone Milasas: It is. And men need space. Women like to talk about stuff. Overall, women wanna talk about it, talk about their feelings etc. whereas man cave is a real thing. A man needs space. And I learned that too, just to sort of check in and go “Hey, do you need anything?” “No, I’m cool.” “Alright, let me know if you do.”
I see so many women go to “Oh, what have I done? Is it my fault? What’s going on?” and it’s like — quite often a man will find somewhere in the house, or find somewhere that is his, or play video games, or watch TV, or do something… Because they process in a really different way. So if you allow the man to process in that way, it creates a really different outcome, rather than always constantly tapping him on the shoulder, going “Hey, what’s up? Are you okay now? Are you okay now?” It’s like, allow him to be, and allow him to have that. So yeah, like I said, man cave is a real thing.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I see that, yes. Okay, so just kind of coming back to the financial conversation – really I’m recognizing in our dialogue today how much money connects with so many other elements of relationship and intimacy… And I guess I’m curious, from your perspective — I get really clearly from you that it’s not about the money, it’s about creativity, it’s about… I guess, can you speak to that a little more clearly? If people have baggage around money or using money as a way of emotionally spending, or overly attached to it…
Simone Milasas: I think there’s no right or wrong, or no guidebook as in “This is the way to do it.” We’ve worked with so many different couples and they say “Should we get bank accounts?” etc. You’ve gotta look at what’s gonna work for you. I have friends of mine who have two kids, they’ve been married for like 18 years, and they still have separate bank accounts. But that’s what works for them.
With Brendan and myself – we had separate bank accounts, and then we also created, because my father was an accountant, so… I was like “Alright, how do we create this to work for us?” We’ve got different trusts, in different companies, that we would run money through, so that it worked for us tax-wise. We could be creative accounting-wise, and yet then we still separated it. And then we ended up putting it together, and then we would do investments.
So have a look at what actually works for you, and like I said before, don’t expect something from your partner that they cannot deliver. If they are not on the same page as you monetarily, don’t force them to be, invite them to be. If that means that you do have separate bank accounts for a while etc. or you have maybe one joint and then a separate one each, then do that. And be honoring of your partner.
One of the things I was very grateful for with myself and Brendan – we never judged each other for what we bought. I remember at one point he went down to the local pub and he was playing the poker machines; just having a moment, having a man cave space moment… And won a bunch of money. He came home and he told me, and I was like “That’s awesome!” And then he looked at me with this look on his face, and I was like “What’s up?” and he went “I spent it.” And I went, “Okay, cool.” I said “What did you spend it on?” He said “I bought a new surfboard.” I was like, “That’s awesome!” because he loves surfing…
But his previous relationship, he said “Simone, she would have killed me.” He said, “She didn’t even like me going surfing, because it didn’t involve her” and I’m like “That’s insane.” Because when he went surfing, he was so happy, and he’d come back and his body would just be vibrating, and he’d be happy, which also contributed more to me etc. So why would I say “You shouldn’t spend the money on the surfboard? Do whatever it is you desire.” I think you’ve gotta be able to let your partner do whatever it is they desire, and if they aren’t’ on the same page with you with money, then get a separate bank account. Do something that works for you.
Don’t create the angst in your relationship… Because if you create angst with money in your relationship, then you’re always gonna have that, and it’ll always be this thing looming over your relationship, rather than “What did you come together for? For money, or did you come together because you actually really liked this person and you’d like to spend more time with them?”
So have a look at that, and don’t make it about the money… But you’ve gotta look at what works for you. There’s no rulebook for what is the right choice. The right choice is what works for you.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I like that, and it’s reminding me of your earlier point about trust… Because as I listen to perhaps his ex, it wasn’t so much about the surfboard perhaps, but it was her feeling cared about, or that he was wanting to be with her, and you were able to trust and recognize… “Even when you’re out surfing and we’re doing different things, I know that that fills your cup, and that that benefits us”, and there’s a trust in that, where sometimes if there’s an insecurity there and the uncertainty feels threatening, and it’s really not about the surfboard, it’s about those deeper feelings…
Simone Milasas: Yeah. And again, that circles back around to what I was saying though, too. It’s like, someone doesn’t complete you. You are complete. If you work on the relationship you have with you, then you can have it with somebody else… Because if you feel “left out” or that “What about me?” energy when someone goes surfing, then that’s saying that you need somebody else to make you happy. You don’t. You get to wake up happy, you get to choose your life… And then your relationship ends up being far greater if you are a whole person, a complete person yourself. Then you add someone in, and that creates more.
The literal definition of relationship means the distance between two things. That’s why we refer to it as “What if you had a creationship?” and it was about two people coming together and they’re gonna create at least 20 times more together than what they would alone.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I love that, and I love what you’re inviting people to consider around the approach and the mindset. How do people access the book you’re referring to, if you can name the title of that, and then also how to get in touch with what you’re up to and what you’re offering?
Simone Milasas: You can go to the website of relatinoshipareyousureyouwantone.com, and also to relationshipsdonedifferent.com. We do a whole lot of this [unintelligible 00:41:14.28] that I think are funny. And then we do seminars around the world…Â You can go to accessconsciousness.com too, because all the tools that we use with relationships come from Access Consciousness. So it’s accessconsciousness.com.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Wonderful. I’ll make sure to have those links on today’s show notes. Is there anything you want to comment on before we wrap up? You’ve given so much already, and I just love your positivity and the real encouragement and inspiration that you’re inviting people into.
Simone Milasas: Yeah, I would just say don’t judge yourself. If you can come out of judgment — and I know that that’s not the easiest thing, because a lot of people create their lives based on judging themselves… But that never creates anything greater. So if you didn’t judge you today, it’s like “What would you choose? What would you like to ask for?”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Thank you.
Simone Milasas: Thank you, Jessica.
I hope you have enjoyed today’s episode, again, with Simone Milasas. I appreciated her ability to share with us about her life, real examples and stories as she was overcoming some of these obstacles around money and relationship. I also found it extremely helpful to hear her perspective on creating more abundance and putting our attention and focus on cultivating more possibility and potentiality as it relates to our financial world.
One of the issues she identified in relationship is how we might approach a conversation through the lens of judgment, or even perhaps how we might approach a situation and have judgment towards ourselves.
I wanna offer a resource in this regard – this judgment very closely relates to criticism… So often when we have that critical tendency towards others we’re often highly critical of ourselves. If you’re interested in getting a guide in support of looking at how to shift this, I wanna encourage you to visit the show notes and I’ll have a link for Shifting Criticism Into Connected Communication, a free guide. There you can opt in to get that free download, and then you’ll also be getting a series of emails to assist you in starting to identify and bring awareness to the process of criticizing. And yes, I’m sure we’re all aware of how being critical tends to create more disconnect in relationship. Sometimes we really struggle with how to change this critical tendency.
So if you’re interested in accessing this information and perhaps even engaging in a deeper way with the Shifting Criticism Into Connected Communication, I wanna encourage you to visit the show notes and download the free guide, and then you’ll be getting those emails and then have an opportunity to enroll into the Shifting Criticism Into Connected Communication.
Again, if you would like access to today’s show notes, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast and you can find today’s episode there. Again, today’s episode is 205, “How to overcome money issues and create more abundance in your relationship”, an interview with Simone Milasas.
Until next time, I hope you take great care.
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