Hi, thank you for joining today’s podcast episode. Today’s episode is 219, “The human need for belonging.” Today’s episode is in support of the larger conversation that’s happening, particularly in the United States, around race and social justice.
Recently I referenced a book titled Together, by Dr. Vivek Murthy, and I wanna bring in some of what he’s sharing in his book with you today, as it relates to human connection, our need for belonging, and this idea of collective connection. So much of what we talk about on the Empowered Relationship Podcast is in support of intimate relationship; and if you hear my latest podcast in regards to Black Lives Matter, participating in Blackout Tuesday, what I was really encouraging us to consider is a lot of these relational principles are applicable across the board. I’m gonna reference some of that today as well, and next week I’m gonna be answering a listener’s question, and then we will get back to some really great interviews that I have lined up for you… And again, always, I wanna invite you to stay connected with me if you have questions for the show, or you’re interested in getting more support.
If you wanna access previous podcast episodes and show notes, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast to find recent episodes, and the latest episodes are at the top… As well as the Contact page, which gives a little instruction around how to submit a question for the Empowered Relationship podcast, as well as the Work With Me page, which goes into a little more information about exploring the option of getting coaching – couples coaching or one-on-one coaching. Again, you can find this at DrJessicaHiggins.com.
Over the last week it’s been an honor to support my clients with their process around racism and oppression. The larger conversation has often activated their own experience with oppression and racism, and many of my white clients are grappling with their privilege, and perhaps the ways that they have contributed to oppression and racism in America… And really trying to learn how to get involved, how to support and educate themselves, or even help through the way of donating and protesting.
I have some stories that I’m gonna reference in a moment, but I just wanna say overall I am grateful for the awareness and the conversation that’s happening on a more collective level to address systemic and institutional racism and oppression. For far too long it has not been a part of this more national/global conversation. My hope is that the Black Lives Matter and all the organization’s leaders, protesters and this movement – even the conversations that are happening in various forms, are contributing to this more collective connection… And I wanna move towards that question, “How do we feel more connection collectively?” Because right now there’s a tremendous amount of disconnect.
In Dr. Vivek Murthy’s book “Together” he is really trying to identify the impact and the arm of disconnection and loneliness in many different forms, so I really recommend the book. He writes: “One more change stoking the current trends of loneliness is the politicized climate of distrust and division that hands over much of the world. While many factors play into this polarization, social disconnection is an important root cause. In the same way that healthy connections help us work through challenges in a relationship, strong, human connections can help us work through societal challenges.
Communities around the world are dealing with pressing problems like climate change, terrorism, poverty, and racial and economic inequities. Addressing these issues requires dialogue and cooperation. But even as we live with increasing diversity, it’s easier than ever to restrict our contact, both online and off, to people who resemble us in appearance, views and interests. That makes it easy to dismiss people for their beliefs or affiliations when we don’t know them as human beings. The result is a spiral of disconnection that’s contributing to the unraveling of civil society today. It’s a vicious cycle. When we’re disconnected, we have a hard time listening to each other. We tend to judge quickly, assume the worst about people who disagree with us, and this makes working together to overcome challenges increasingly difficult. Then, the more problems we face, the angrier we get, which fuels the cycle of fear and distrust that stokes alienation and a sense of estrangement from society as a whole.”
A little further, Dr. Vivek writes “Dr. John Paul Lederach is an international peacebuilder, an expert in conflict resolution who’s given a great deal of thought to the mechanisms that pull people together and tear them apart. He quotes “The challenge of the remainder of our century”, he told me bluntly, “is how are we as a global family going to attend to the basic fundamentals of creating the right of belonging. There isn’t a community that doesn’t face this.” So what’s needed? For Lederach, the first step is to promote a mutual sense of belonging. That means meeting and serving people where they live, by physically going to their homes or neighborhoods. “When you go to where people live and sit with them, you actually begin collective empathy. You see the world from how they perceive and live it”, John Paul told me. Accessing this vantage point is especially important, he said, when meeting people who are different from you, with whom you want to build connection in spite of fear or distrust. Only this way can we truly begin to appreciate the context of one another’s lives.”
There are a few points in the book that Dr. Vivek Murthy is talking about – city planning, and suburbs, and how driving even can impact our sense of connection, or our sense of isolation and loneliness, as well as the impact on racial connection and multi-culturalism.
Personally, this had a huge effect on me and my development. For a large portion of my young life I lived in a suburb outside of Portland, Oregon called Lake Oswego, and it was not very diverse, and nor is Portland, Oregon for that matter… But my experience from moving to the city from Lake Oswego – this, again, predominantly white suburb – and moving to the city and fostering and developing friendships, connection, relationship with people of different racial backgrounds, and specifically African-Americans.
When I would be in relationship, living life in friendship and connection and relationship, and seeing first-hand the oppression and racism was eye-opening and appalling, and propelled me in a whole developmental process of examining my privilege, what I’d been taught, what I hadn’t been taught, my beliefs, my family and their beliefs, and stereotypes, and prejudice, and race, and social justice, and multi-culturalism. And I did this through reading books, through articles, through taking classes – again, on diversity, multi-cultural classes, African-American history classes… And then also have done an enormous amount of service work, social justice work, multi-cultural work through the National Conference For Community and Justice, serving a year in the AmeriCorps for the “I have a dream” Foundation, and various internships and practicums.
While all of these experiences and education have been critical in my development, I can say in my heart the most profound, transformational, lasting effects have been through my friendships, my connections and my relationships.
Dr. Vivek Murthy writes “But what about the feuding groups who refuse to share space, whose distrust for each other has ignited into fear and anger? That fear and anger blunt our empathy and concern for one another. They increase the distance between us, fueling a sense of disconnection. Historically, this was how wars fomented. Since it was easy to demonize an enemy one was never going to encounter personally, except on the battleground.”
In my own learning and development, understanding the power of dehumanization was key, because I couldn’t understand how human-to-human we can engage in such horrific actions and policies. As Dr. Vivek Murthy is pointing to, if we look back on history and really wonder “How is it possible that we can inflict such trauma and pain on one another?” And this dehumanization, I think, does a really good job of recognizing how we can separate and disconnect and really see groups of people as the other. And that’s in its more pronounced or extreme form, but also, again, if we look at cultural, historical development and the seeds of that, or perhaps even the gross stereotyping that we do about groups of people, and the injury that comes from that, and the disconnect, and the mistrust and the fear, and the misattunement – how often we are getting that wrong.
In meeting with a client yesterday, a white client who was really struggling and having a lot of emotions in recognizing her parents and what they had exposed her to in the stereotyping and perhaps fear associated with race… And she talked about being so upset, even now, about the choice that they make, and where they get their news and their political position. And from her stance, she just was really recognizing “I cannot engage in a conversation with them right now. I’m way too upset, and I know that I’m gonna confront them, and I don’t think they’re going to listen… And I’m just really concerned about it getting ugly or escalated.”
And we did talk about the importance of getting emotional balance. If you’ve been a long-term listener, or listened to any length of episodes, you have heard me mention the importance of not relating from reactivity, but really getting regulated, getting our nervous system back into balance, so that we can have a more heartfelt or a more connected conversation, even about very difficult, emotional, potentially really volatile topics. We cannot do that from a place of trigger, the fight, flight or freeze. We are bound to get into trouble.
One of the things that I often talk about in intimate relationship, again, is getting that emotional balance, getting regulated, and then entering into a softer, heart-to-heart conversation. And really what’s at play here is the desire to be in connection and in relationship, recognizing there is a difference, or there is a conflict, and there’s a process that supports that. I’m gonna talk about that in a moment… But I just wanna acknowledge, as far as multi-culturalism and social justice, I remember when I was really entering into deep dives around this myself, and I had a lot of care and consideration, and I remember a lot of my African-American friends were like “Look, I appreciate your love and concern, but really, what’s needed is more systemic change, and engaging in conversations with people around white privilege. White people, and their consciousness around multi-culturalism and racism and social justice.”
While these conversations can be tender and scary, I can tell you, there’s been so many conversations I’ve had with family members, and what’s beautiful about it is there’s this bond, whether or not there’s a relationship of family, or a heartfelt kinship in a different quality of relationship – there’s a love that can hold a container for these difficult conversations.
I wanna share a story out of “Together” by Dr. Vivek Murthy. He writes:
“Moving together against gravity. I could hardly think of a better description for the unlikely relationship that was pivotal in moving Derek Black, the child of KKK believers, to turn away from white nationalism to embrace people across cultures.
Matthew Stevenson, one of Derek’s first friends outside the movement, is an orthodox jew who hosted Shabbat dinners at New College, when he and Derek were students there. Both went on to graduate school, Derek in history and Matthew in business, but their friendship remains a pivotal accomplishment in both of their lives. “How did you begin to bridge the divide?”, I asked, when he spoke in 2019. Matthew recalled living across the hall from Derek, in the dorm. “He would play guitar, and played country and western. I’d sometimes go along and listen to him play or sing along. This was before anyone knew anything about Derek’s background. But I was wearing a yamaka, so I was pretty open about who I was.”
Derek remembered watching a movie with Matthew and other people in his dorm room, and they had a class together. They were friendly to each other, but not yet close. Derek still considered himself a white nationalist, he just didn’t talk about it.
When Derek’s secret finally got out, he was in Germany for a semester abroad. An upperclassman back on campus posted an online photograph of Derek with a tag, “Derek Black. White supremacist. Radio host. New College student.” When the story came out that Derek’s father was the founder of Stormfront, Matthew said “Obviously, it was a big shock.” The campus was in [unintelligible 00:16:41.13]
Most of Derek’s classmates were irate that they’d been misled… Yet, when Derek returned from Germany, Matthew reached out and invited him to his Shabbat dinner, and he persuaded other friends to join them, without confrontation. “That took courage”, I said. “What were your expectations?” Matthew’s reply was simple, but profound. “I have a fundamental belief that at the root of every person is a spark of the Creator. There’s something that binds everyone. Even if they are behaving in ways I find reprehensible, we still share a common humanity, and that can’t be erased, even if someone’s doing things that are really against me, or harming me or society. I feel somewhat of a responsibility to that person.”
When I asked how he’d come to this extraordinary worldview, Matthew said that his mother had been an alcoholic and took him with her as a boy to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. “I saw a lot of people who had been in very dark places in their lives. There was a guy who unintentionally ran over his son when he was drunk in the driveway. Many of those people I saw transform their lives from tornados of vulnerability to beacons of hope.” He paused. “So there wasn’t a doubt in my mind that people like Derek can transform.”
Just as John Paul Lederach would have recommended, Matthew reached out not to persuade, but to befriend. “I told everyone at the dinner not to bring up his political views, because I didn’t want it to become a shouting match. I thought it would be a unique opportunity to get to know him. My guess was that Derek didn’t have many opportunities growing up to get exposed to people that white nationalism condemn.
I asked Derek how he remembered that first dinner. “I expected there would be a group confrontation”, he admitted, “But then there wasn’t a confrontation. I knew we had common interests, like music and history”, Matthew said. “I don’t think I would have invited Derek had I not had those previous interactions with him, and I don’t think he would have accepted. To my amazement, Derek said he was moved to accept in part because it was a Shabbat dinner. This changed the context of the conversation and how we were interacting. This is a sacred moment that you shouldn’t mess us that way.”
And then there were more Shabbat dinners, and Derek became one of the regulars, along with students of color and others who were immigrants, Jews and members of the LGBTQ community. Afterward, Matthew and Derek would hang out. Matthew didn’t go to parties on Fridays because of Shabbat, and Derek wasn’t really welcome at parties, so we’d end up spending lots of one-on-one time together, just talking in my living room. But white nationalism was the elephant in the room for two years. I couldn’t help asking, “Did you ever have the urge to discuss the elephant in the room?” “I was very curious, Matthew admitted. I had experience getting spit on, shoved for antisemitic reasons when I was traveling. It wasn’t an abstract idea for me, but I figured that if I brought it up, it would lead to defensiveness. I thought it was more important for him to come to those dinners than me satisfying my curiosity.
Initially, Derek said, it was important that we didn’t argue, because we wouldn’t change each other’s minds. I can see why it took so long to be open about it.” What DID you share? “Derek’s father had been sick, Matthew recalled. When my mom was diagnosed with cancer, we spoke about that experience. We spoke about religion and spirituality, but we never specifically broached the topic of white nationalism. I didn’t want it to define our friendship, so I figured I’d wait for Derek to bring it up.”
Matthew did nudge the issue, however. After he learned that Derek was scheduled to join his father and speak at a Stormfront conference, Matthew asked him “What are you up to this weekend?” Derek told him he was going to Tennessee for a family reunion. One person who was not concerned about engaging directly with Derek was Matthew’s suitemate, Allison. She had originally stopped coming to the Shabbat dinners when Matthew decided to invite Derek, but eventually she came back, because she was white and not Jewish, and therefore not a person targeted by white nationalism. She felt she needed to take on the role of talking explicitly with Derek about his beliefs.
“She would ask me how I could hold my beliefs and also go to these Shabbat dinners. Wasn’t there a conflict there?” Derek recalled. Over countless private conversations, she asked him to examine and explain his beliefs. In time, those beliefs began to shift. By the end of college, many of his closest friends were precisely the kinds of people he’d been told to hate earlier in life. It became more and more incompatible. “It got to the point where I had to condemn my own family’s beliefs and leave it.”
Allison, who had become Derek’s girlfriend by then, told him it wasn’t enough to quietly give up his beliefs. He had to announce it explicitly. Derek publicly renounced white supremacy by writing an article that went viral. That was when Derek and Matthew finally talked. Derek related how the conversation finally began.
I remember asking you “I’m pretty sure you’re aware of my family stuff, but we’ve never talked about it. Are you aware?” and Matthew responded “Yes, obviously.” Over drinks at a bar they unpacked everything that had happened in the past two years. Derek’s past, as well as his journey, and the profound impact of those Shabbat dinners had had on his transformation. Still, for Derek, it took time to fully own the person he had become. To his surprise, he found that it helped to tell his story to journalist Eli Saslow for a book about his transformation.
“I thought the reaction would be quite negative, since I had come from something so negative. However, I realized that I could explain what had happened. When he looked at the story from all sides, he found a deeper understanding of both the forces that had shaped his childhood and the forces that had led him to his change. I could be open with the good and the bad, and in the process of doing that, it was actually more comfortable.”
Derek’s transformation has come with a personal cost though… The feelings of anger and hurt that his family experienced after his public renouncement of the white nationalism are still raw. When we spoke, he was down in Florida, visiting his parents and walking that long road to rehabilitating the deeply-damaged relationship. This is a reality of being human, that we have the capacity to love people, family, friends and strangers, even if we profoundly disagree with them.”
I’ve found this story to be really moving in just the power of relationship, and I also recognize, as Dr. Vivek Murthy is acknowledging, that when people are in extreme polar opposites, it’s really unlikely that they’re gonna move that much… And that extremists tend to be so invested in their positions that their only interest is in conversion, not conversation. And yet, the extremists on the left and the right quoted in the book “Together” by Dr. Vivek Murthy accounts for less than 40% of the population. So if you really max out those numbers – 40%, 20% on each end – then you still have 60% of the middle, which is more than enough to make significant positive change. And again, as I mentioned earlier, my hope is that we are in process for a more positive change, social justice, racial equality, multiculturalism.
John Paul, referenced in the book “Together” by Dr. Vivek Murthy, is talking about his work as a professor, and he said “My proposal to students is they look across the classes on campus and locate a person who is somewhat different… Then find a way to reach out and see if they’d be willing to go out for coffee or tea. The purpose of reaching out, he emphasized, is not to try to change their mind, not to try to put forward your view or hear them so that you can develop better arguments… No, he said. The purpose is simply to meet and find common ground, so that you can build the trust you need to reconstitute the fabric of friendship. To do this, it’s important to start small, but to commit to a higher quality of presence in relationship.”
To demonstrate this commitment, John Paul gives his students three basic challenges. Number one, listen to understand. Number two, speak from the heart. Number three, stay at it for the rest of your life. Persist.
I love this invitation, because I think it echoes so much of what I talk about on this show in intimate relationship… And that when we’re in conflict, and the reactions and the threats are high, again, to get that emotional balance and then turn towards each other in that heart space, that softened space, with the intention to connect. So that’s the reaching. And then to recognize the desire and the importance of understanding and perhaps empathizing. That’s that listening that John Paul’s talking about.
And then from that place, that ground of understanding and empathy, perhaps we can speak from the heart and start to feel the attunement and the care and the desire to help, and that’s where the repair and the emotional bond can occur. And then from there, I think that’s where we can generate solutions.
Derek Black, again, as a white nationalist – he had assumed that persuasion was a matter of reason, data and arguments, and that people join communities after being persuaded. Thanks to Matthew, he came to understand that the reverse is actually true. You find your community first, then you get persuaded.
Dr Vivek Murthy continues, “This simple insight has enormous potential ramifications for many of the entrenched conflicts that are tearing our society apart today. The way to get people to find common ground on reproductive rights, climate change and criminal justice is not necessarily the talk first, and hear everyone’s argument. Instead, it’s to establish relationships between those who disagree. Relationships where people meet first as fellow human beings, not as political positions.
Derek’s right – once we find points of shared value and concern, our minds and hearts open to each other, and that’s when we too can move together against gravity.”
Thank you for listening to today’s episode, again, on the very important topic, the human need for belonging. And as we’re in a climate and a movement of addressing systemic and institutionalized oppression and racism, and that there is change at play, and that’s needed, and there’s a power behind that that’s needed… And if we also look at agents of change and how we can start being a part of the solution in cultivating collective connection, and some of the things that go into that – the relational principles of finding our balance, our emotional balance, so we can have these heartfelt, open mind, open heart dialogues, again, where we reach for connection, we reach for understanding, and the listening and the empathy, as well as attuning, so that we can feel repair and connection, and from there create solutions.
If you would like access to today’s show notes, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast, and you can find today’s episode 219, “The human need for belonging.” And again, if you are interested in accessing other resources, you can feel free to peruse on the website. Again, Work With Me is how to engage in coaching. Again, if you have a question for the Empowered Relationship Podcast, click on Contact and you’ll get a little instruction around how to do that.
Until next time, I hope you take great care.
0 Comments