Hi, thank you for joining today’s podcast episode. Today’s episode is 221, “How to recognize and work with self-sabotage in relationship”, an interview with Brianna Wiest.
Before we get started, I wanna invite you to settle in and perhaps just center into this moment, feeling you, feeling what’s up for you in relationship perhaps, what’s in your heart, what you’re feeling that you’re maybe challenged with, or longing for, and just again, bring recognition to that and acceptance for that… Because as we talk about on this show, so often what we’re experiencing is an opportunity for growth, for development, individually and relationally.
The tips, tools, interviews, resources mentioned on the Empowered Relationship Podcast are all in service and supporting you in the journey of long-term intimacy, hoping that perhaps insights, guidance, understandings support you in feeling more prepared, better equipped to turn towards some of the challenge, again, so that you can be investing in co-creating long-lasting intimacy.
If you would like access to today’s show notes, again, today’s episode is 221, “How to recognize and work with self-sabotage in relationship”, an interview with Brianna Wiest. You can find that on DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast, and you can find all of the episodes listed there; the most recent episodes are at the top.
Let’s get started in today’s interview.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Brianna has traveled internationally as a journalist, written for Fortune 500 companies, and has spoken in cities around the continental United States. She is the author of five books, her latest, The Mountain Is You: Transforming Self-Sabotage Into Self-Mastery is being published in 2020. Her dream is to use the power of words to help people awaken to their fullest potential, build emotional intelligence and fulfill their life purpose. Brianna, thank you so much for joining us today.
Brianna Wiest: Thank you so much for having me, the pleasure is mine.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Well, I want you to know too that I learned about you actually through clients, that were like “Have you seen any of Brianna’s articles? You should check her out.” So that’s actually because of clients and listeners who prompted me to look you up, so it’s a gift to have you today.
Brianna Wiest: Oh, that is so funny. [laughter] I’m very flattered, thank you so much.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah, and when I was reading your work, I was like “Oh, I see why people were nudging me.” Your way of describing and writing about some of these sometimes complex topics – there’s an eloquence around it and there’s an emotion that you’re capturing something that I think people are really resonating with… So I was like “Yeah, I can see why people were inviting me to look into what you were doing.”
Today’s topic is looking at self-sabotage as it relates to relationship. This is a topic that you have devoted so much of your work to, and I would just love if you’d share, so people who maybe don’t know you can learn a little bit about what got you into looking at this, if you’re open to sharing.
Brianna Wiest: Yeah, so I’ve been joking that my interest in writing a book on self-sabotage has just been, you know, ten years of ruining my own life… [laughter] It genuinely was my own self-sabotage journey… And my journey, the way I would like to say it, is back into finding my own power. When I was at my lowest in my life, struggling the most, it was because I had really resigned all of my power to everyone and everything around me… And I really believed that life was simply happening to me, and I was just a passenger on the ride, so to say.
And what I discovered was that, to put it metaphorically, I needed to get into the driver’s seat. The way that I always see it is we cannot always control which way the road is going to go, but in our lives we always have to stay in the driver’s seat… And this is the problem – when we come up on something challenging, we wanna get back into the passenger’s seat and just let things go off the rails… When I’ve found and learned, years ago, in my own journey to healing my life… But then, spending so many years reading and writing about these topics, that there seems to be a shift that people make, from being a victim of their story, to the person writing the story. And as that pertains to relationships, it’s tricky on the surface because you co-create a relationship; you’re not the only person in control, you’re not the only person influencing what happens in this intimate relationship that you have, whether it’s a friendship or anything else… But you have so much power. You have so much power in what you say that you’re going to allow or not, how you show up or not, how you handle challenge or conflict or not, how you speak or not…
And I am curious to see in your years of work what you have found, but what I’ve really come to understand is that so much of the quality of our relationships begins with our relationship to ourselves… And it is challenging, if not at times I would say even impossible, to be in a healthy relationship when you’re not really in a healthy place with yourself. I find that just kind of gets projected and splattered all over… You know what I mean?
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah, and I would agree with you… And I think the approach in how we enter into this healing work, whether or not it’s a deep dive into the personal self-growth, or if it’s a real interest in the relationship dynamics, I think they’re both so informing the other… Because if we’re not in a safe relationship, and we don’t necessarily have a safe haven, sometimes it’s hard to really feel like we have the resource to tune inwards… And like you’re saying, I love that you’re really recognizing there’s some limits and boundaries around what we’re exposing ourselves to or what we’re engaging in, and that that’s a big part of developing this healthy space, to then be in a co-creative relationship, if you will.
Brianna Wiest: Well, I think that people — I will say for myself, that I started with this perception really that life is just happening to me, and I had no control. And I used to get into this mindset of “Everything’s out of my control anyway, so what’s the point. What’s the point in even trying?” And then, what I started to piece together was the ways that my thoughts, my actions, my behaviors, the way I spoke to people, the way I treated people – all of that, in many cases, completely controlled an outcome in my life; or if it couldn’t control it, heavily influenced it.
So I think that a healthy mind space to move to is “No, I cannot control everything around me, but I can control or influence the most important things in my life… Or at least I can control and influence some of it.” And then we refocus on where we can show our power, what we can create, and then we move out of just kind of paralyzing ourselves with fear, into becoming what I think is a conscious creator of our experience.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes. And to bring it into relationship, that’s where people actually get to contact more of what’s us, and our essence, rather than our strategies to play it right, or be perfect, or people please.
Brianna Wiest: Yes. Wow, yes.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Well, I love that you give so much articulation to what’s at play with self-sabotage, and what it looks like, and I wanna go into that, but I also appreciate that you’re using the word “victim”, because as you were talking, I was like, yeah, that’s often what people, when they start to explore more psychological principles, they might recognize “Oh, I do feel a victim of my circumstances…” How is victim different than self-sabotage?
Brianna Wiest: Well, I think the first thing to differentiate is I believe there’s a difference between actually being a victim of something and having a victim mindset. So there are things that happen in life of which we are legitimately actually victims of, and some people pretty significantly so. So we can acknowledge that. But then there’s this way of thinking, which is kind of what I’ve described prior, which is that everything is happening to me; so it’s almost this disconnect between what I’m saying and doing and how people are responding or how the world is responding… And just completely unconscious of the fact that one is influencing the other. To use a very small example, I didn’t put gas in my car, and then I ran out of gas while I was on the road, and then it turns into this “My whole day is ruined. Life is awful. Nothing ever goes my way.” It’s like – well, right, but if you had just put gas in your car, you wouldn’t have had this problem. It’s not that the world is out to get you, this is a solvable problem, and next time you’ll know what to do. You know what I mean?
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes. And we think about relationship – again, a very small example, but perhaps when we come home from a long day, and let’s say it’s a difficult day, and we’re hoping for our partner to greet us with open arms, and a big smile, and just like “Hi, I’m so glad to see you!” But perhaps when we open the door and our posture is really collapsed, and we have this frown on our face, and our partner registers that very quickly, and then is looking at you concerned… It can be this feedback that it’s hard to tease out what is influencing the other.
2:Yes, and I think that when you have a victim mindset in relationships, you just kind of take whatever you stumble upon. Whatever person you meet or you happen to start dating or you feel strongly attracted to this person without really taking a minute to say “What is attractive to me about them? Are they just kind of reflecting back to me old patterns that I’m familiar with, that maybe aren’t the healthiest for me?” So we just kind of take what we’re handed.
Or when we’re actually in the relationship, and we give that person essentially permission by not protesting or correcting or leaving, to do what they want or say what they want… And then what happens? We react, we have a big reaction and we internalize it. “Oh my god, I’m an awful person. Nothing ever works out”, and we’re back to victim mindset.
In my marriage, I have — we always actually joke about this too, which is like, we notice that the quality of our relationship is always directly proportionate to the quality of the day that we as individuals are having. So if I am happy and content, my relationship is thriving. And it always happens to be when one of us is stressed about something individually, we start bickering about something. I just don’t think that’s a coincidence…
Dr. Jessica Higgins: [laughs] Right?!
Brianna Wiest: I don’t. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. And I think that’s another reminder – not that we can control another person, nor that we have to, but that we can do things just as simple as maybe even express “Honey, it makes me feel so good when I come in from work and you stand up and hug me and seeing how happy you are to see me.” How many times do things like that come up where the other person is like “I didn’t even know you wanted that. I didn’t even know you cared. I didn’t even know that mattered”, and it was just a simple matter of vocalizing it, expressing how you felt, and seeing what you could change. And then maybe your partner comes back and says “Well, you know what – sometimes I don’t really feel like you are that happy to see me when you come in”, and then you think “Well, what if I’ll work on changing that, too? Why don’t we both work on it?” And then one feeds into the next.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Absolutely. Well, as you’re beginning to describe the difference between victim and self-sabotage, even just the language is in your opinion – do you feel that even being able to identify self-sabotage implies a sense of power?
Brianna Wiest: Oh, yeah. Oh my god, yes. I feel like the biggest hurdle is just to get you to just be conscious of it. So if we could just get to the place of “Okay, I’m starting to see the pattern”, because usually our behaviors are unconscious until we start noticing a pattern. So we don’t realize our piece in the puzzle when it just happens once. We think “Oh, that’s just one situation.” But then if every relationship starts, ends and blows up the exact same way, again and again and again, eventually the pattern triggers us to start thinking “Okay, why does this keep happening this exact same way?” And once we start to even just notice “Wow, okay, I’m really attracted to people who kind of won’t commit to me. Why do I keep choosing to be in a relationship with this type of person?” That person is responsible for how they’re behaving, I guess… But your piece, your contribution to this pattern is why when you recognize this immediately do you not walk away or do you engage further if you know how this is going to end?
So I think that just even knowing “Okay, I actually find myself really attracted to this. That’s something to explore.” That has given you back so much power, even if you haven’t fixed it yet, just knowing. Honestly, I feel like half of my inner work, half the battle was just realizing “Oh, I’m doing this.” My friend and I start getting in an argument if I one-up her, or we don’t do well if I have an attitude because I’m not feeling great… And I think this is just how relationships are, but I start to realize “Oh wow, I’m contributing to this. I am a piece of this puzzle that I think is just kind of being built for me”, and it’s not.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Right. I’m recalling a time – and I love that you referenced Gay Hendricks’ work – I was working with the unconscious commitment, and I think there’s other people that reference this as well… And I was looking at my biggest relationship complaint, and at the time – this was like probably 18+ years ago – and my biggest complaint at the time was being criticized. I was looking at “Okay, so if I take ownership of that, I have an unconscious commitment to being criticized”, and I was like “Oooh…” [laughs] And to explore that – it was such a huge insight and an opening for me to look at “Well, I actually do have choice.” Again, so similar to what you’re saying; and the type of dynamics I engage with, and also the people that I’m attracted to, and what informs that. It had totally to do with my upbringing and what was familiar to me and all of that… So it’s that awareness, and then the shift of looking at what moves am I making to contribute to this.
Brianna Wiest: I love how you phrased that, which is “What is my unconscious commitment to being criticized?” That’s the question I pose in the book, and I also would say it’s the gateway to unraveling your self-sabotaging behaviors, which is “What part of me wants the thing that I keep destroying? What part of me wants to keep experiencing this?” Or another way to phrase it is “Why don’t I want the thing I say I want?” That’s probably an easier way to think about it. I say that I want a healthy, loving relationship, but I keep choosing relationships with people who don’t want that with me.
So is there something about a healthy, loving relationship where I don’t believe it’s possible? I’ve never experienced it before, so I don’t think it could ever happen? Is there a part of me that actually doesn’t really want to be in a relationship? Because I do think that most of the time what it comes down to is right now, maybe in this moment, or with this person, this is not what I want… And because I can’t come to terms with that, I’m gonna self-sabotage it in other ways. I’m gonna make up excuses, I’m gonna say I can’t commit, I’m gonna choose the wrong people, whatever it is… But deep down, there’s just a fundamental lack of self-understanding.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I love that. And like you’re describing, there’s a shift of awareness. What was the wake-up call for you? What do you see with other people where they’re willing to start thinking differently or open up the possibility of self-sabotage?
Brianna Wiest: This is kind of a personal story… I actually don’t know if I’ve ever spoken about this particular moment before, because it’s obviously sensitive… Because it really was my big a-ha. It was a very, very vulnerable moment for me. It must have been like ten years — it was a long time ago. I was actually at church, and I was in such a dark place in my life that I was praying, and I was praying for hours each day; I was praying a lot. Pretty much non-stop. I think I was going to church every single day… But I was really — you know… And in the middle of it one day – and I really wanna emphasize, this has been going on for a while; this wasn’t a one-time thing. What occurred to me was I can pray and pray and pray and pray, but nobody has the power to fix this but me; and maybe what I’m praying for is a miracle, or salvation, or strength, or for someone to step in and change the story… But maybe what I need is to find my strength, to create the miracle myself, because no one else really caused this, so I don’t think anyone else can fix this. I need to fix this now.
I do think it was a divinely-inspired moment; that’s just my personal feeling about it… Just knowing that I have that power in me, and all of us do. And the point isn’t that we can wait for someone else to rewrite the story, but that we know that we already have the power to do it ourselves.
Oprah has a quote that she said at the end of a speech one day. She said “If you’re waiting for someone to fix you or change you, or even help you, you are wasting your time. You are the only person who has the power to change your life. And you can ask for help, and you can seek counsel, and you can get inspiration, and you can have mentors, but at the end of the day you have to do the work.”
Once that moment happened, I slowly started doing the work, and that’s when it all started coming together, which was “Oh, wow, I’m really creating most of this mess, and I really have the power to clean it up.” When I started doing that, that’s kind of when I started getting into the self-sabotage topic, because I would be trying to course-correct and I’d be like “What it this intense resistance?” And I saw it in so many different places; I was like “Well, I know I need to do this for my career. Why am I resisting this so much? Or in relationships, why do I keep ending up with the same kind of person that is not interested in me? Why does this keep happening?”
And what I realized was that I feel I was unconsciously creating these circumstances again and again and again… One, because — you know, there are many different reasons for each circumstance, but actually my self-sabotage wasn’t because I didn’t have enough willpower, it wasn’t because I wasn’t smart enough, it wasn’t because I wasn’t motivated enough; it was because I was either pursuing a goal that was not healthy for me to pursue, I had unrealistic expectations, being like “I’m gonna write seven articles in three hours.”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: [laughs]
Brianna Wiest: Just ridiculous. Or I wasn’t ready for a relationship, but couldn’t reconcile that back, because that’s what everyone tells you from the day you’re born that you wanna have… So I just kind of kept trying to date people that I wouldn’t work out with, but I really do think at a deep level I knew I just wasn’t ready and it wasn’t time.
So when I started to get into those deeper layers, I could start actually connecting with the truth of who I am, and getting into alignment of what I needed, and then that’s when the lid blew off of my life, in a good way. It just started flowing, when I started getting out of my own way.
The question that I use to understand what is my flow state, what is me in alignment, what do I need, is “What would it take for me to be at peace today?” Not in ten years, not in five. Today. What would it take for me to be at peace with my life right now? And when I can answer that question — because when we try to answer questions like “What’s my best possible life?” it’s like “Well, I’m a millionaire”, and all this stuff, and it’s all this stuff that maybe you don’t actually want, you just think is like your highest potential… And maybe it is, but you also have to desire that experience. I think a lot of people don’t desire what the world would see as their best possible success outcome. [unintelligible 00:23:04.26] so they don’t go for it, because they don’t care.
I think what you do care about is like “What would it take for me to be at peace today?” and my answer is like “Talk to my friends, go out in nature”, and then I start piecing together “Oh, this is who I am. This is what I want. I can let go of these outside voices and influences and expectations and I can start creating what I wanna feel and what I wanna experience.” That was so long, I’ve gotta stop talking.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Well, it was beautiful, and there’s so much in it. I’m deeply appreciating your willingness to share your experience and referencing something that’s been so personal… Because as you’re talking, I just feel inside myself how this is that inner relationship that I think you talk about. And as you’re talking about this divine moment and recognizing your essence, your life to be lived, that that can’t be lived by anyone else, and that as you started to pivot towards these questions they bring — it feels like very curious, but also getting to know you on a deeper level, and your expression more authentically, versus again, the shoulds or the expectations or the pressure we put on ourselves… And that feels so healthy.
I wanna ask you – I feel this in your work, that even your talk about self-sabotage often is a protective strategy… That there’s a layer or a non-judgmental, loving stance that invites this process where so often I hear people use self-sabotage actually as a way to judge themselves, or be hard on themselves, like “Ugh, I’m sabotaging myself again!” But that doesn’t necessarily lend to a process.
Brianna Wiest: No, I always think of it as you’re self-sabotaging because you love yourself; you are self-sabotaging because you love yourself so much you’re not gonna keep letting yourself blindly pursue things you don’t want. And I think that when you can maybe think of it that way, like “How am I trying to protect myself? What is my intent with this?” Then you can kind of step out of that “Oh my god, I’m not good enough, I’m not smart enough, I’m not strong enough, I can’t persevere”, and understand that your whole body and every cell in it is wired to serve and support you. So what is it about this that I think is protecting me or saving me or helping me? And then when I can understand whether or not that’s true, I can step forward in a healthier way…
But you’re right, we have to strip away that judgment of “I’m not motivated enough” or “There’s something wrong with me.” And I think you can also have the understanding that absolutely everyone self-sabotages. I’m probably self-sabotaging right now. We all do it, all the time. There’s nothing wrong with you as an individual. It’s just something that we all collectively have to just work on, and that’s okay.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes. And when we’re talking about these two, and you’re saying maybe it’s not really for me, or maybe I don’t really want it, I know you also talk about deeper fears… There’s so much we’re not gonna get to, and I want people to get in touch with you and your book and your work… But when we’re looking at deeper fears as it relates to relationships, so often I think people might even be proactive and gain relationship techniques or strategies, and they wanna play it right. But if they’re not in contact with a deeper fear, then they’re almost outside of themselves…
So as you’re saying, a protecting strategy, if we’re not aware and we kind of have this block, or it’s kind of fuzzy, or we don’t really know why we’re doing it, it’s unconscious – we’re trying to do the right thing, or we’re trying to show up, but if we’re not in contact with that deeper fear, then we’re actually not with ourselves in the fullest way, because those fears are legitimate and come from a really real place, and that perhaps we have certain things that we’re needing to take care of to feel like we can move forward. Would you agree?
Brianna Wiest: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We need to do that kind of excavation into our mindset and unearth these — I think the foundation is limiting beliefs… You know, “Love always has to be this way”, or “I’m not worthy of a healthy relationship”, or “It’s impossible to find when I need to settle” or “I need to get married by this time”, or whatever it is… These unconscious ideas that we have, that are kind of spurring us to act. And then you’re like “Yeah, but this is completely out of alignment with who I am and what I need.” And I do think a period for real self-reflection and growth is pretty essential for a foundation of having a healthy relationship with someone else.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes. Okay, I feel that I’m so excited, and I’m talking, and I wanna still draw out a few more things… So for people to recognize self-sabotage, how does it manifest? What are you helping people see?
Brianna Wiest: The main feeling or sensation is a feeling of stuckness or intense discomfort. That’s usually the thing people first recognize, which is “This keeps happening. The pattern. I’m stuck in this pattern. This keeps happening, again and again and again, and I’m really uncomfortable with it; I’m not happy, I’m not fulfilled. I’m really frustrated.” So once they’re aware of the discomfort and the stuckness – there are so many, I couldn’t touch on all of them now… But some examples are like uprooting, which is a word I use for when you are comfortable kind of sprouting, but not blossoming, so to say… So you start a little business here, and then you’re up and you’re on to the next one; you go on two dates, it’s going great, and then you just ghost the person and move on.
You can get started, but there’s some block that when you try to take root and try to ground into that new experience or that new phase in your life, you’re coming up on something, some belief that you don’t deserve it, or you can’t do it, or something from the past you’re holding, that prevents you, so you just kind of up and you’re on to the next thing… And you never really fully commit to anything; you never really fully see progress with anything, because you don’t give it the time and space. So that’s one example.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Thank you. As people start to build awareness and start recognizing patterns and exploring perhaps what’s going on there, I know there’s so much you offer in this process… But is there anything you would like to speak to today about either steps, or tools to that excavation that you’re referring to?
Brianna Wiest: Yeah, so something that I’ve done for so many years is journal, and I do that a few different methods. First, just to record your thoughts, feelings and your actions or what you did that day. It’s so simple, but just to even log what you’re thinking, feeling or doing, you can start to piece together patterns that you might not even know exist.
It’s like, every day at three o’clock I come up on a big, stressful block. Well, why is that? What am I doing just before that? Oh, wow. I talk to this person usually before then, and they never make me feel good. Okay, now I’m starting to see the pattern in my life. Then, to go maybe a step deeper is to start recording some of the narratives that you have in your mind, of “I am not worthy”, or “I am this or that”.
And then the way that I use journaling now is to rewrite them, which is either what I call gratitude journaling, which is I start the page saying “I’m so happy and grateful now that…” and I rewrite what I want to consciously create. “I’m so happy and grateful now that I’m at peace, now that I can write effortlessly, now that I have a happy relationship”, or whatever it is I’m trying to create.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: It’s specific to the sabotage, right?
Brianna Wiest: Right, so it’s the opposite of what I’m trying to sabotage. I’m trying to rewrite the belief that’s triggering me to sabotage the thing that I think I can’t have. Or I’m saying “I’m happy, I’m strong, I’m grounded.” It’s simple and it doesn’t take much time, but I’ve found that to be really effective. That and just reading. Reading as much as you can, from as many different people that you can, and just acquiring more information. I feel that that’s really essential. Also, if you’re not a big reader, then maybe an audio book, or an Instagram post, or an article.
I hate that books are sometimes kind of ineffective for people who aren’t readers; they don’t sit and care to digest a really long book, so they’re not getting the information, and I think it’s so important to encourage people to just connect in whatever way works for you. Maybe that’s videos, or… Podcasts! [laughter] And whatever way that you can learn.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes… Well, what you’re saying – you’re saying it very concisely, but there’s so much in this, with the journaling and the discovery, self-inquiry process around “What’s going on there?” and I know you offer a lot to assist in that.
And then the repatterning, if you will, of the possibility of having a different experience, and being able to create that, and co-create that. And I can share that — when I referenced that example of what’s my unconscious commitment of being criticized, and then the invitation is to actually do what you’re describing, to reverse that. So I now consciously commit to being in a relationship where – and I don’t remember what I chose as the opposite of criticism. I think it was maybe “valued”, or “appreciated”, or something… And I’ll tell you, what happened for me was I felt a level of excitement, but also responsibility, that like “Okay, I am now committing. If I’m gonna make that commitment and I take that seriously, there’s choice that I have in that of how I create that.”
Brianna Wiest: Yeah. First of all, I just also have to say – you take everything that I say and repeat it so much more beautifully. You need to write my books for me… [laughter]
Dr. Jessica Higgins: No way, no way. You are a writer for a reason. I attune to people and I’m saying what you’re saying, and I’m just reflecting it back, truly…
Brianna Wiest: You’re so gifted, because I’m like “Wow, yes. That’s perfect. I should write that down, just the way she said that.” [laughs] I love it.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: But getting the imagination and the creativity, it starts to open up… I mean, I think in leadership, or even business sector – they talk about having conversations with people that are more advanced than you, or perhaps are a little further along… Because even talking to them, even if it’s not about the brainstorm of the thing you’re challenged with, it just — thinking differently or seeing new possibilities, things start to open up that previously perhaps weren’t available.
Brianna Wiest: Definitely. I think I talked about this in the book, which is that your environment is everything. It is everything. I believe you are influenced by your environment far beyond what you could ever even imagine… And the most significant piece of your environment is who is around you. Who was I even speaking to…? Oh, I forget… I think I was recording my podcast a few months ago, and one of the individuals that was working on the tech team between episodes was saying “I have this group of friends that just don’t get me anymore, and I’m talking about business”, or whatever it was… And he’s like “I’m struggling with it.” I’m like “Well, you don’t have to lose your friends, but you do need to find your mentors, your group, where you can bring these ideas to them, and instead of kind of just looking at you confused, they give you more ideas, they support you.”
I have a really awesome group of friends… The idea for my podcast came from just hanging out and talking to them. We just all come with different ideas and kind of just use each other as a sounding board. Even if you at this moment maybe don’t have that group yet, I think there are so many ways to connect with people who can help you, finding a mentor, or a coach, or a therapist… Or if that’s not the path for you, then reading or watching. I feel like a lot of my mentors are people who I followed online for years, and I’ve just read and watched everything they’ve done and I’ve learned so much from them… And I think that the more of those people you follow, or get to see in person ideally – I think what happens is that that becomes your new normal. That becomes your perception of what’s normal and expected, and I think that you naturally start adjusting.
So if in your circle/business/whatever it might be it is normal, you’re gonna experience a lot less resistance to creating it, or whatever it is you wanna do. That’s what’s expected of you, and you’re not defying norms, potentially opening yourself up to some kind of unfair criticism, or whatever it is…
Dr. Jessica Higgins: It’s a real support. If we’re really supporting the essence and the expression of our life and what we’re creating, to have support for that is critical.
Brianna Wiest: It is. It really is. My husband and I try to spend time with people who are friends, of course, but it’s also like “You are where we wanna be, in however many years. What do you know that we don’t?” So we love to spend time, have dinner with, or even just get to talk to couples who have been happily married for so many years. We’re like “Okay, what do you know? What have you learned? Tell us, teach us, show us. You are where we wanna be; we need to learn from you.” And I think that we have mentors like that all around us, in our grandparents, or whoever else.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Absolutely. Well, I know we’re winding down, and I just have one more thing, if you would like to touch on, I think it could be helpful, in that what does it look like when somebody’s more aware of self-sabotage, or — I don’t know that we live without self-sabotage… Like you said earlier, we all do it. But what does more minimal self-sabotage look like, or what does it look like to be more aware of these patterns?
Brianna Wiest: I think the difference is – and you can gauge your own progress – the gap of time between you knowing what you wanna do and then you doing it.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Nice.
Brianna Wiest: So people who are deep in self-sabotage are pretty much paralyzed, and people who have very little of it understand what they want and then immediately take action on it… Or as quickly as possible. If it can’t happen in that moment, the plan to do it is in action, we’re taking steps, we’re adapting, we’re moving forward. I think that’s usually how you can tell where you’re at.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Nice.
Brianna Wiest: So it’s like “I wanna do this with work. I wanna go here, I want this”, whatever it is that’s in your wheelhouse at this moment – how much resistance is there between knowing that that’s what you want and actually acting on it? I think that’s pretty much your measure of self-sabotage.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: What a good gauge. It’s so practical. Well, wonderful. I am really excited about learning more about what you’re up to… How can people get in touch with what you’re doing and what you’re offering? And you have a book that’s coming out…
Brianna Wiest: I do, in June. You can follow me on Instagram. That’s pretty much my main social media thing right now. I will pretty much post there whenever there’s anything new – new podcast, new interview, when my book comes out… And I do post there pretty regularly. I write for a number of publication, but… Yeah, that or my website, BriannaWiest.com, would be where to check everything out.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Excellent. And do you wanna say a little bit about your upcoming book?
Brianna Wiest: Oh, yes. Sure. My book is called “The Mountain is You: Transforming Self-Sabotage Into Self-Mastery.” The title comes from — for centuries, the mountain has been used just like a metaphor for big, insurmountable changes in life… And the point of the book is that one day, when we scale our mountains and they’re behind us, they will be so far away they’re barely visible in the distance; we won’t even remember it, it will all pass eventually… But who we become in learning to get over it stays with us for the rest of our journey, and that is the point of coming up on these mountains. That is the point of dealing with self-sabotage, or whatever is holding you back in life. It’s not just to make you suffer; it’s a coming to awareness of your habits and your patterns. You can change who you are and how you act, and the ripple effect that that will have on the rest of your life will change you forever.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Wonderful. Well, I will make sure to have these links on today’s show notes, and thank you so much again for joining us on today’s episode.
Brianna Wiest: Thank you so much. The pleasure was mine.
I hope you have enjoyed today’s interview, again, with Brianna Wiest. If you want access to today’s show notes, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast and you can find all of the episodes listed there. Again, today’s episode is 221, “How to recognize and work with self-sabotage in relationship. There you will also find other resources, and as we talk about self-sabotage, we’re looking at our tendencies, our behaviors, our resistance, and what gets in the way of us cultivating the very thing we want to develop, create and experience in relationship, in life… And one of the things that I’ve been really helping people shift is the tendency to criticize, to critique and to judge, and noticing the destructive dynamic of criticism and defensiveness in relationship can really whittle away at the sense of emotional connection and love and bond… So if you notice the tendency to criticize or criticism impacting your relationship, I wanna encourage you to access the “Shifting criticism into connected communication.” And you can access this on today’s show notes – again, you can find that on my website, DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast and find episode 221. Also, you’ll see the guide on the homepage. Again, it’s “Shifting criticism into connected communication.” If you do access the guide, you will also receive an email series where I will be offering more support and also an opportunity to get a deeper level of support in the way of a course. Again, the same title, “Shifting criticism into connected communication.” Again, you can find this on my website, DrJessicaHiggins.com.
Until next time, I hope you take great care.
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