Hi, thank you for joining today’s podcast episode. Today’s episode is 232, “How to deal with food and eating differences in relationship, an interview with Melissa Costello. Before we get started, I just wanna take a moment and center with you… Perhaps as you’re listening to this episode, I just wanna invite you wherever you are to just take a deep breath… And perhaps checking in as you take a deep breath, and a deep breath out, what’s alive in you, what curiosity or question that you’re holding, or contemplating, as it relates to relationship. Just allowing that some recognition.
The intention for the Empowered Relationship Podcast is for you to feel more supported, and perhaps even better equipped, more prepared as you negotiate the terrain of long-lasting intimacy, knowing there will be challenges at times, or perhaps even differences that on face value feel difficult, and that how we deal with these difficulties and approach these challenges is a big determinant in our success… Because typically, we have so much to learn about ourselves, and how we show up, and how we’re co-creating relationship… And that our relationship can actually teach us our areas of growth, if we’re so willing. And as we develop ourselves, we develop the capacity for more intimacy, more authenticity, more connection, more happiness, more harmony and more love, both internally and with our significant other.
So all of these shows are in an attempt to support this intention, offering you tips, tools, principles, research. I’m doing my best to bring other voices to support your experience in relationship. And as I talk about, I am on this path with you, and just that it’s just a journey, so it’s such a gift and an honor to support you.
If you would like access to today’s show notes, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast which can be found in that top navigation bar, and there you’ll find all the episodes. Again, today’s episode is 232, “How to deal with food and eating differences in relationship, an interview with Melissa Costello.”
On the website you’ll also find book recommendations, other interviews, articles, other free gifts, as well as courses if you wanna go deeper with practicing these principles. Or perhaps if you’re looking for direct guidance, you might be interested in getting some relationship or individual coaching, and you can learn more on the Work With Me page. Again, that can be found in that top navigation bar. Let’s get started in today’s interview.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Melissa Costello is a transformational eating coach, holistic nutritionist, speaker and author. Her mission is to empower busy professionals to get off the yo-yo dieting rollercoaster and end emotional eating so they can lose the weight that is holding them back from living a life they truly love. Melissa’s in-depth training in Spiritual Psychology, Clinical Nutrition and holistic coaching along with her own personal struggles provides the foundation for her clients to experience powerful breakthroughs and sustainable, profound transformation.
Melissa, thank you for joining us today.
Melissa Costello: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here!
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, and you’re a dear friend, and I feel grateful that you do such powerful work in this area, as we explore our relationship with food… And particularly how couples might navigate food issues. It’s such a gift to have you on the show.
Before we get started, for people who may not be familiar with you or your work, can you speak a little bit more about what got you into this field?
Melissa Costello: Absolutely. For me it was a journey that started at a really young age. I was an athlete growing up, and I had a lot of body image issues. What that did was sparked a lot of yoyo dieting, restricting my food… And I was someone who also valued health at a really young age, which I find kind of weird, because I was raised on the standard American diet. But my body image stuff really kind of drove my relationship with food, so that became very dysfunctional.
When I moved to California in my twenties, I got much more interested in healthy eating, and I had always loved to cook. My father was an incredible Italian chef; we just had so many people in our family who cooked, and it was something that really interested me, just so that I could eat healthier and feel better.
So when I moved to California, I started cooking more and more, and experimenting with all these incredible foods that I hadn’t really been exposed to growing up in New Jersey. I had never even eaten avocado until I was in my late twenties, when I moved to California. So I got into that field of cooking, and then I became a private chef, and I was a vegan myself; I transitioned into veganism kind of naturally. And I was private cheffing… But I also had this internal struggle with myself; I was an emotional eater, I was a binge eater… I just really used food in a dysfunctional way, and it affected my whole life. I didn’t have any confidence, I felt really negative in my body, I would go up and down in my weight all the time… So through the process of working for other people, cooking food for other people, I actually got my nutrition certification. And that was really helpful for me to understand food more, but I still was struggling, and I thought “Gosh, I’m a smart person. Why can’t I figure this out? Why is this so hard for me?” And that’s really what got me into the work that I do now, working more on a psychological level, if you will, around our struggles with food and how we use food in different ways, and how a lot of times people will go to food to get control, or they’ll use it for stress relief, and things like that.
So through my training in spiritual psychology – I went to a Master’s program in spiritual psychology – I was able to really implement what I learned there, and now work on such a deeper level with people.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And I love that you’re speaking to not only the science of food and the nutritional value of food, but also our relationship with how we use food, or our tendencies and awareness around what’s going on there, and that has the deeper emotional psychological aspects.
Melissa Costello: Absolutely.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: One of the things that I think we’re all confronted with in the last 5-6 months with what we’ve been experiencing with the pandemic, as I’ve been talking about as it relates to other tendencies, with a little less activity socially and otherwise, we can see our patterns a little bit more, particularly with the rise of stress. So I know that there’s people who have eating disorders, and maybe even diagnoses around that, but then there’s a whole range and spectrum of people that might have relationship with food that could be optimized… So you’re speaking about emotional eating, and binging. How does someone know that they might have challenges, or stuff around their relationship with food?
Melissa Costello: Well, to be honest, I think that a very high percentage of women – men too, but mostly women – have a struggle with 1) their bodies, their body image and their weight. So a lot of those struggles drive their relationship with food, like it did for me… And there’s some crazy statistic, like 90-something percent of women dislike their bodies. So what that does is it drives people to have that kind of push and pull relationship with food, where they go into restriction, and then they go into kind of that pendulum swing, which is like the other side of overeating and binging, and that’s kind of where a lot of this dysfunction with food starts. And it also can start in our childhood, where maybe our parents rewarded us with food, or food was a way we bonded with our family, and different relationships.
So food is a place where 1) we need it for survival, so we can’t ever stop eating, but it’s also a place where I feel like a lot of people can get pleasure and satisfaction, and they also feel like they can gain a sense of control. It’s the one thing in our lives that’s so accessible to us, where we can go to get a sense of control.
Outside of these kinds of diagnosed eating disorders – I don’t work in that realm; that’s not in my expertise – but I do work with this mild… I considered myself to have a mild form of an eating disorder through the emotional eating. And I think if people are really struggling with how they view food – if they view it as good, and bad, and then they have a lot of shame when they eat something that they see as bad, or they’re listening to all these other outside sources and they’re not tapping into their own body’s wisdom – that can create also a really dysfunctional relationship with food, because they’re not trusting themselves, they’re not understanding how to feed their bodies. And in the wellness industry there’s just so much conflicting and confusing information out there, so I feel like so many of us can struggle with our relationship with food…
So how do you know – I think if it feels like it’s something that you have a hard time being consistent with, if you really struggle with how you feel in your body, if you struggle with being consistent with your health, that’s kind of a telltale sign. And then if you’re especially now – like you were sharing about the pandemic – a lot of people are turning to food to kind of soothe themselves, to release stress. And I notice myself doing it in the first month-and-a-half. I was like “Oh my goodness, there’s all this stuff going on”, and I was really wanting — I couldn’t see my friends, I was very isolated, and I was really wanting a way to release that. And then, of course, I worked through that with all my skills and everything, and I was able to kind of come through that on the other side… But a lot of people don’t have the wherewithal to know what they’re doing, and they just kind of numb out and use food as a vehicle for that.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: It sounds really rich, with lots of different perhaps challenges, where it could even be — someone might turn to you for support for developing that inner guidance.
Melissa Costello: Yes.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: There’s been so much external listening to different sources and losing touch with their own internal wisdom, and so that support to reconnect, and get clarity, perhaps is something that you would be really helpful in doing… And then also dealing with the push and pull, and the shame, and the guilt, and then “I need to eat, but I feel bad about it”, or perhaps the coping mechanisms of numbing… And I’ll even say just as I’m listening, I’m like — one of the things that I’m trying to pay attention to and have struggled with for a really long time is just slowing down; [unintelligible 00:12:44.23] with my food. I don’t particularly feel like I have a lot of challenges around food, but just that very eating and not really being super-present when eating is still something perhaps to look at.
Melissa Costello: Right. And a lot of people struggle with that, because we live in a busy world, and we’re always trying to mind-hack everything or time-hack everything, versus really honoring ourselves. When we’re eating under pressure, or distraction, and we’re not really present, it actually puts our body in a physiological state of stress. It’s really hard for our bodies to absorb the nutrients they need, for your digestion to work properly… So there’s that physical component too, when we’re eating in a rush… I was a classic car eater. “I have to go here, so let me shove whatever I can in my mouth in the car before I get there.” Or even just — I used to sit in front of the TV at night and just emotionally eat lots of popcorn, and then the next thing, and the next thing… Then I would be so full of self-loathing, and not liking myself… And it puts a lot of stress on us, mentally, emotionally and physically.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah, and it sounds like there’s a huge paradigm shift, that we could do a super-deep dive around this in and of itself, I imagine… And I know we’re gonna pivot towards how this impacts relationship, but it’s that paradigm of food as input. It’s just calories. But the nutritional value, and also the way it’s being absorbed – like you’re saying, it’s a whole system. And the connection around it… It’s really quite profound.
Melissa Costello: It is, it is. And because we need food to survive, it’s even more complex… Because if you look at someone who is an alcoholic – not that it’s easy by any means to get sober, but they don’t need alcohol to survive. So it’s one of those things where if you don’t need it to survive, it could be a little bit easier to let go of, or to shift your relationship around it. But with food, we need it to survive. It’s an absolute must in our lives. So it becomes a little bit more complex and tricky to transform the way we relate to it.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, we can’t just go in complete abstinence around it.
Melissa Costello: Right. [laughs]
Dr. Jessica Higgins: For sure. Okay, so let’s pivot towards — since this podcast is really geared towards supporting people in intimate relationship, what do you see when there’s perhaps one person in a relationship, or a couple in general, that struggle around food?
Melissa Costello: Yeah… So there’s a few different things. Oftentimes it’s the woman who has the struggle. Men, as you know, have a much faster metabolism than us, and so they could stop, say, drinking wine and lose ten pounds within 30 days. For a woman, it would be much different.
So I think a lot of what I see, especially in my clients, is what I call “secret eating”, where women feel so much shame around allowing themselves to eat things that they consider “bad”; but really, those foods are something that they love, and they’ve cut them out of their lives, and then what they will do is eat them in secret if their partner isn’t around. So what it does is it creates this wall, where the partner may not know that’s going on. So there’s that piece, and then there’s also a lot of couples will bond over food and drinking wine… And for women who are really struggling with their weight, or feeling good about themselves, they can kind of fall into just doing whatever their partner does, or believing that the only way they can bond is through eating and drinking together. And you and I both know there’s so many other ways to create intimacy and bond, but I think that a lot of people get attached to “Well, gosh, if I stop drinking, and then my partner wants to drink, what’s gonna happen?” and they get fearful around that. So there’s a lot of different dynamics.
And then also one other thing I see a lot of is who cooks the meals, and who takes care of that piece. And if one partner wants to eat healthy and the other one doesn’t, how do they navigate that together? So I’m a big encourager around “Do what feels right for you, and set boundaries.” Get your partner to cook, or they have to cook their own food; if you wanna cook something more healthy and they don’t, then it’s almost like — you’ve gotta have boundaries and fend for yourself a little bit.
So there’s a lot of different dynamics that go on around food, but I think because food can be so linked to shame, and so linked to this feeling of “I’ve done something bad, I’ve eaten bad food”, and even people will make comments about — I’ve talked to a client today and she said her ex-husband was there and he was making a comment like “Oh, you’re drinking a Pepsi Cola? What’s that about?” So there’s a lot of that going on, too.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes… What you’re saying is so rich. I wanna break this down a little bit. As you’re talking, it reminds – me when I had my private practice in Boulder I had this couple; they were nearing retirement, and the woman in the relationship very much — and I think this is something they shared together; I think they ascribed to being foodies. So they’d love to go to really fine dining, and [unintelligible 00:18:38.29] and the wine, and just the different culinary art of it… And the husband had a health scare, and I think he was more of a scientist/engineer in nature, and he did this incredible level of research around health. He was like “I don’t wanna eat any oils…” He pretty much restricted his diet, so that he couldn’t really eat out… And that was their big conflict. She wanted to have this experience with him, and even traveling, and then he is really limited… So often you talk about food is often symbolic. We get attached to the food, but it’s what it represents; for him, it was his health. For her, it was the experience of art. It sounds like what you’re saying is if we start to build more awareness, that perhaps there’s other ways that we can meet those needs without necessarily food being the issue. I wonder what you would say to that.
Melissa Costello: Yes, I 100% agree with that, and I really do believe that even if we are wanting to eat healthy, we can still see food as art. We can still see food as a way to bond… I think it’s just raelly how we’re looking at it. Instead of looking at it as “Well, now I’m deprived”, can we look at it in a way of what it’s really about. If I wanna use this as a way to bond with my partner, put the focus there, versus on the food. You can still enjoy a meal together, even if one person’s eating no oil and the other one is. So there’s that component.
And then also – yes, finding other ways in the relationship… If one partner has to go down a different path with their eating, finding other ways in the relationship to bond and build intimacy, so it’s not so focused on the food all the time.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: My mind is reeling, because I’m thinking about just how essential — food is this basic human need, and then in a couple dynamic we have this unique experience of being witnessed to one another… And then that brings up what you were talking about – the shame, and that perhaps there’s aspects, and this relates more than just to food, but perhaps things that we are hiding, or don’t feel fully comfortable showing, and revealing things we’re not proud of, or feel great about with our significant other, and that can relate to food, as well as perhaps how we’re soothing. We see each other, or even – I recognize just with my husband and myself, when we’re eating a meal… It’s like this “Who’s gonna go for seconds?” and I can tell that we’re judging each other, but there’s this awareness around it… And if we’re in individual practice — I think we both somehow have to justify if we have a second helping, and it’s just funny, it’s just an interesting thing, that there’s so much going on there.
You said something really important, that I think you have talked about, and I know I see that there’ll be a comment – “You’re having a Pepsi Cola?” and all the inferred [unintelligible 00:21:55.03] what we project into that… And these comments that are made, even commenting or calling someone out, but as it relates to food and body – what do you see as this impacts relationship?
Melissa Costello: It’s huge, and what I’ve learned… Because years and years ago I was very guilty of that, especially when I was a vegan – oh my gosh, I would call people out all the time. So what I’ve learned over the years is that is very harming to people. So when it comes to our bodies and when it comes to food – no judgments. And I know that can be really hard, especially if we have a concern about people’s health, and all that stuff… But I even tell my female clients, if you wanna talk about it with your partner, talk about it from a place of “I’m struggling. This is where I need support”, versus asking them “Do I look fat? Do I look this?” So coming at it from a place of more vulnerability and sharing the struggles, so that the two of you can be on the same page around it. And knowing like – you making comments on what I’m eating really hits me on a deep level, and it triggers my insecurities… So things like that, where we can really deepen in the vulnerability around what food represents and what our bodies represent. So there can be a lot of shame there, and I think that that’s why so many women, in particular, will eat in secret.
One of my clients – she’s in a fairly new relationship, and her current boyfriend makes comments all the time about women’s bodies, and people being overweight, and they’re lazy, and he can’t figure out why they just can’t get it together and get it straight, and that scares her, because she has her own struggles herself, and she’s been struggling, and so she hides, she secret-eats. She goes and spends time with him, and she eats really healthy, and does really “well”, and then she gets home and goes off the rails because she’s hiding this big secret. So I’ve been encouraging her to share her struggles, and to be able to kind of let him know what’s going on, because ultimately, if that’s gonna be a big wedge between then as they continue to build their relationship, and she’s never gonna feel free…
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah, and the vulnerability just deepens the knowing and understanding and the empathy, and that he can connect with her, and then perhaps maybe open up his worldview around others, and weight maybe even.
Melissa Costello: Yeah. Hopefully, he cares about her enough to really hear her viewpoint. And listen, the reason why these struggles are so prevalent for so many is because we have a 70-billion-dollar diet industry. And that is really where most of this starts. There’s girls as young as seven years old that are on diets. That wouldn’t be the case if there wasn’t a 70-billion-dollar diet industry. So that’s my real goal in life, that’s my mission – to help dismantle the diet industry.
The New York Times just wrote a huge article about the wellness industry and how damaging it is to, in particular, women’s self-esteem and confidence, and just feeling good about themselves. And that it’s just so over-the-top, and people can’t figure out “What’s the best way for me? What do I need to do for me to figure out how to nourish myself, feed myself, and still find pleasure?”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Totally. And this is immense, and I know that you have a lot that you offer your clients and the people that engage with you… Do you have anything that you can offer today, tips around how to manage this pressure?
Melissa Costello: Yes. This is one thing that I tell a lot of my brand new clients that scares them – I say “Get off every email list that you’re on and get out of every group that you follow that creates confusion for you, or that even posts transformational photos, before and after photos”, where it’s like you’re always on this kind of mission to look a certain way. Get away from all that noise, so that you can start to listen to yourself and listen to what your body wants and needs. Because our bodies are incredibly wise; they’re miracles, and our bodies never lie. So if we can start to turn toward our bodies and turn toward really understanding what we need as an individual, that’s a huge step toward overcoming this challenge that we have. And it can be hard to shut out all the noise, because one person’s saying carbs are bad, the other person’s saying bacon is the best thing on the planet, and the other one is saying “Well, you’ve gotta intermittent-fast, nothing else works.”
We’re all so confused, so I really encourage my clients to shut the noise out and get support more from the psychological mindset/belief system level, versus looking for that external quick fix or that one answer, which we know is not the answer to be the thing.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Thank you for that. The pressure is enormous. I remember even in some of my undergrad women studies, I think one of the professors was exposing us to the documentary “Killing us softly”, or…?
Melissa Costello: Oh, yes. Yeah.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And I was appalled at just how unconscious I am to all the imagery and the different messaging around whether or not it’s your magazines, or television, or now social media, and billboards, and movies, and TV shows… I mean, we’re inundated, it’s everywhere, and it’s crazy to think about it collectively, the message and the theme of that.
So what would you say with body image around people who battle what you had talked about? I mean, that’s a high percentage, 90% of people have issue with their body. Is there anything you wanna speak to around that?
Melissa Costello: Yeah, there’s a lot to untangle there. I think a lot of it starts when we’re young. For me it started when I was really young. And whether we hear something about our bodies, or we see our parents model something… My mother hated her legs, and she would talk about how she hated her legs all the time, so I grew up hating my legs.
In my Facebook group I actually posted this question, “What was one negative thing someone said to you about your body where you made a decision about yourself?” And there were so many responses. “Someone said I had thunder thighs” or “Someone said I have a big butt, so for the rest of my life I wore men’s soccer shorts and big T-shirts.” Someone said “Oh, you’re pleasingly plump”, and so for the rest of my life I struggle with my weight.
So there’s these things that we hear and that we pick up in our life, especially when we’re children. Then we kind of take that information in and we make a decision about ourselves, and that is the driving force for most of what we do in our lives around food in our bodies. So a lot of this work is really about identifying and dismantling those limiting beliefs. And a lot of them run really deep. I know for me they did. And I still, to this day, have moments with my body where I struggle, and I think it should look a different way. And as I’m getting older, I’ve been really feeling challenged by that, too; like, a lot of things are changing, and that’s hard to come to terms with.
So I think it’s an ever-evolving process for people, but what I’ve really learned is that we need to learn how to respect our bodies and really look at them as this incredible miracle that is giving us so much in the day in and day out. Our heart’s pumping, the blood running through our veins… If we have all of our senses, and just all of those things that are really bringing that appreciation to our bodies in a different way… Because most of us are critical about our bodies. So kind of starting to turn your sights towards “What are all the great things my body gives me? Even if I don’t 100% like it right now, what can I appreciate about it?”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Right. The functionality… And I know that sitting in front of my computer a lot, and having some neck tension, I remember doing a yoga class once and the instructor was advising “Instead of judging the tension, or noticing the tension and wishing it weren’t there, what if you just accepted it and just was with it, and didn’t have judgment?” I was like “Oh, that’s so interesting.” So often we’re looking at improving, improving…
Melissa Costello: Right…
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, so we’re talking about the internal self-awareness, and our mindset, and how we are in relationship with our bodies, and food… I also realize we’re in relationship with another, whether or not it’s our significant other, or even like you said, a family member… Can you give us any language? This might be a more advanced step, as someone has gotten some traction in their inner game, if you will… But what are some of the language is somebody’s making a comment? Because it’s easier to perhaps write off or dismiss when somebody’s not super-close; but when it’s someone that’s super-close, like you said, it can hit hard. So what’s the dialogue there, when we notice and we’re building awareness around our own process and we’re wanting to address with someone near and dear and close to us, around their comments?
Melissa Costello: It’s always a little bit tricky to navigate, but I think that if we can share our truth and just say “Listen, that comment triggers things inside of me, or that’s something that I really struggle with, so can we talk about possibly shifting the way we communicate around this?” Everybody communicates differently, so I think that — I have clients who tell me their parents still, as they’re adults… I have one client in particular, and every time her father sees her, “Oh, it looks like you’ve put on some more weight…” And I basically said to her “Dad, my body’s off-limits. My body’s off-limits. It’s not helpful for you to make comments about my body.” She had to be a little bit more stern with him, because he’s older, and he’s very set in his ways. So there’s different ways of communicating. But I think that if someone in a partnership is really struggling with this, it’s just bringing it to the table, and really saying what you need around it… You know what I mean?
And I think also women set themselves up too, because of the diet industry. “Do I look fat in this?” Any guy — poor guy, who’s asked that question, I feel for… Because how do you answer that question, right? So I think that we have to be really willing to say “This is what I struggle with…” And I think we can’t look to our partner to fix it for us, that we have to find our own support, because men can view it very differently than women. If someone’s not a trained professional, they’re not gonna know how to navigate if you have food and body stuff. But I think just really being open and honest about it…
The last relationship I was in, I shared my struggles. I shared that I had body image stuff, and all of that… And I think just by sharing that, it enabled my partner at the time to really understand me better, and to know “Food comments are not okay.” I always say “Stay in your own lane. What’s on my plate is my business, what’s on your plate is your business. So let’s just agree that what I do with food is my business, what you do with food is your business.”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Thank you for saying that. I think that’s such a good guide, because I had more question I wanna ask you… But just to clarify – it sounds like for people that you might not be evolving the dialogue necessarily, like with a dad that’s pretty set in their ways; it might require more boundaries, which you were speaking about. But if someone’s more open to working and collaborating, then maybe that vulnerability and sharing the struggle, they might be a little more able to work with you. Is that what I’m hearing you saying?
Melissa Costello: Yes, absolutely. Really going to your partner and saying “Gosh, this is something that I really struggle with, and I would appreciate if comments weren’t made, or if you could really support me by being a vehicle for me to either talk through it…” It’s always a little tricky to navigate, and I’m not a communication expert by any means, but just being able to really ask for what you need is really important.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: This really coincides beautifully with some of the relationship principles, because it is about bringing that self-awareness and the underbelly and the vulnerability, and being able to have the emotional balance, and bringing that to the table… And then it’s a dialogue from there around knowing this information, and maybe there are times where I wanna seek reassurance. You talked about “Do I look fat in this?” Depending on the relationship, that could be a different dialogue.
Melissa Costello: Yes.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, my last question. I’m curious, going back to couples who maybe bond over food, or I was bringing in how we’re witness to each other, and perhaps can be even accountability partners… I guess with the staying in your own lane, you might have already answered the question, but I think for couples the temptation is “Let’s bond over this together” and they get super-enthusiastic, but then it turns a corner… Let’s say whatever the goal is that they’re working on; in my example it’s not going for seconds. Then if you’re in it together and you’re trying to reach this goal, then it turns the corner and then you’re kind of calling someone else out, which probably wouldn’t go very well.
Melissa Costello: [laughs]
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So what do you say about the temptation of being accountable to each other, and the accountability partner, and the resource of that, but then also how tricky and treacherous it could get.
Melissa Costello: Yeah, I think it’s important to know what your intention is behind the accountability. If you wanna be accountable with your partner around food, what’s that really about? Is that about you guiding, is that about you eating healthier? I think it’s just important to know what the intention is.
And why does it matter if our partner wants to go for seconds? I think there’s different questions you can ask yourself around why does that matter, and then also — like, I need to worry about myself. That kind of “stay in your own lane” around “Well, wait a minute. Am I still hungry? Do I need seconds? Or am I just doing it because my partner is doing it? Or am I not doing it because my partner is not doing it?” But it’s really about taking care of ourselves. So asking the question of like “Am I physically hungry? Do I still want more? How would that serve me?” And I think accountability with food gets tricky, because it’s usually always linked to dieting. That’s something that I’m really looking to dismantle.
So yes, it’s great to have accountability, of course… I mean, I have accountability in work, you and I are in a mastermind together, so there’s all of those components that are really helpful for accountability. But when it comes to food, and our bodies, and things like that, I really believe that we have to stay in our own lane and take care of ourselves. It doesn’t mean we can’t bond over food or can’t enjoy the process, but I think that if a woman goes on a diet and says to her husband “You need to hold me accountable”, that’s a lot of pressure to put on someone… Because then you have the husband going “Hun, you said you weren’t gonna eat X, Y and Z”, and that person, the wife, feels badly, and then she feels like “Oh God, I’m failing.” So there’s so much underlying stuff there. The intention around accountability is really important, but like I said, staying in your own lane and taking care of yourself in terms of your own nourishment and your own pleasure with food.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Right… And I love how you offered up some change in the perspective there, because so often when people perhaps are using these goals, it is related to that pressure. I wouldn’t wanna go anywhere near holding my husband accountable for any — it just feels like a total minefield.
However, the way you phrased it, I would do… Which is less about “Hey, you’re doing that thing you said you didn’t wanna do.” I wouldn’t do that. What I would be more interested in is “Tell me how it’s going”, or inviting the dialogue. Like you’re saying, it’s taking that language that I think is so related to the pressure we get around dieting and body image and the messaging there, but then getting an inquiry of the process. And like you said, it so often depends – am I actually hungry, or am I looking for soothing? So just the inquiry about the self, and then as we are in connection with someone else, the relationship about that connection to respective selves, and then that creates the intimacy.
Melissa Costello: Yes, absolutely.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Wonderful. Well, great, thank you so much for all that you’ve shared today. I know we can’t fully do your work justice on a short podcast, but how do people get in touch with what you’re offering and what you’re up to?
Melissa Costello: Yeah, thank you so much. My website is karmachow.com. I also have a wonderful private group on Facebook called The Food Freedom Breakthrough, so you can search that and find me there. It’s a really beautiful private space for people to come and just get support… Because a lot of people feel really alone when they have struggles with food and their weight, so that’s a great place to get support there. And I’m on Facebook also under KarmaChow, and Instagram under @karmachow. So you can find me in all those places..
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Nice. And you have individual coaching, and other curriculum?
Melissa Costello: Yes. So I work with clients one on one, and then I also have small groups. My Empowered Eaters Club, which is groups of four that I work together with over a course of six months, and it’s really powerful to have. There is accountability for that piece, of just how people show up for themselves and the actions that they’re taking to transform their relationship with food.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Wonderful. I’ll make sure to have all of those links on today’s show notes. Melissa, thank you so much for sharing with us today.
Melissa Costello: Thank you for having me. This was so wonderful, to just bring this information out there.
I hope you have enjoyed today’s interview, again, with Melissa Costello. She’s a dear friend of mine and I’m grateful to have her in my inner circle in my life here in Santa Barbara… And it’s such a gift to hear her share her wisdom and insight, and I’m just appreciating her background and how she’s able to blend her training and experience and wisdom from different traditions to provide a comprehensive look on eating and food.
Again, if you would like access to today’s show notes, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com and there in the top navigation bar find Podcast, and you can find all the episodes. Today’s episode, again, is 232, “How to deal with food and eating differences in relationship, an interview with Melissa Costello.” Again, you’ll find all the links mentioned there.
Thank you for listening, and until next time, I hope you take great care.
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