Hi, thank you for joining today’s podcast episode. Today’s episode is 238, “How to find your emotional balance in relationship.” Today’s interview is in honor of Dr. David Schnarch, who passed away this week. His work has been a major contributor to the field of couples work, and we’re gonna go into a little bit of one aspect of his teachings today, and supporting you in finding emotional balance.
Often when I begin this show, I invite you to join me in grounding and centering, and I also name the intention for the Empowered Relationship Podcast… And really, what’s behind this exercise is just taking a moment of acknowledgment for you, and also setting the tone for the conversations that happen on this show. And as we’re gonna be talking about emotional balance today, one of the key points is having our ground, having our stability, standing on our own two feet, metaphorically. And oftentimes with the pace of life, and we’re gonna talk about some reasons why we lose touch with that, more emotionally, particularly in relationship today, and how normal it is and how it’s a part of our developing.
But part of when I invite you to do this is just to take a moment – I know it’s a drop in the bucket, and it probably doesn’t give a significant sense of where you are and what’s going on, but just even the invitation to drop in for a moment helps us know where we are, and therefore know how to move forward with more mindfulness, skillfulness.
So if it feels appropriate for you right now – obviously, if you’re driving, or doing another task that requires some level of your attention, you wanna obviously prioritize that. But if you have some capacity to turn inwards – and usually, this is a little bit more of a exploration, so we’re not gonna give a lot of time, I’m not gonna do a guided meditation or anything, but that you can do, to again, get in contact with what’s alive in you, what’s relevant for you, what’s up for you.
But just even in a breath in and a breath out there can be some tuning in, bodily sensations, emotional feelings, thoughts contemplating, perhaps even nudging that you’re getting feedback from other people in your life, or perhaps becoming aware of certain principles that inspire you and call you to a new place. So just noticing that and giving honor for that.
And the intention for the Empowered Relationship podcast is to support you along the journey of long-lasting intimacy, so that you can co-create, cultivate with your significant other a relationship that is mutually life-giving and supportive, that’s connected and intimate and passionate, and also holds a level of security and confidence and growth.
As we cultivate this, there are ebbs and flows in our journey, in our process… So the conversations here are providing you research, theory, tips, tools, practices for you to contemplate as you consider your moves and where you’re at in your life and relationship. To support you in deepening in your practice, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com. If you wanna access today’s show notes, you can find those show notes under today’s episode, 238, “How to find your emotional balance in relationship.” All of the podcasts can be found under the tab Podcast, at the top navigation bar. You’ll also find a tab titled Work With Me, to learn more about coaching couples, individual and group. You can also click on the tab Courses to find curriculum to self-study, to deepen in your understanding, your practicing and your implementing of these principles and strategies and approaches for you to cultivate a high-level, healthy, again, mutually-fulfilling relationship. And again, you can find all of this at DrJessicaHiggins.com
In today’s episode I want to share with you Dr. David Schnarch’s four points of balance. He talks about this very specifically in the book titled Intimacy and Desire: Awaken the Passion in Your Relationship, again, with Dr. David Schnarch. And I’ll make sure to have the link to this book on today’s show notes.
Personally, I came across David Schnarch’s work about 20 years ago. At that time Passionate Marriage was a very popular book, that I believe he wrote in the late 1990’s, which I’ll also put on today’s show notes. Really supporting couples in intimate relationship, marriages, long-lasting partnerships, to consider the concept of differentiation and how critical it is to our sense of passion, sexual desire, and our sexual intimacy with our significant other.
In a nutshell, differentiation is the ability to hold on to yourself, have a solid sense of self that allows us to be closer to others intimately. And as I say that, you may be thinking “Oh, that’s a little bit of an oxymoron, or an irony, that the more that we hold on to ourselves, the more intimacy we can have.’ Now, if you’ve been listening to this show for any length of time, you have probably heard me speak of this dynamic.
I also published a podcast about the two majorly conflicting needs in relationship, really exploring this tension between intimacy and autonomy, closeness and separateness. And I will make sure to put that link to that podcast on today’s show notes.
Typically, people get stuck in the notion of giving to our significant other as a means of showing love and care and support. Now, of course, we want to mutually support our significant other, but not at the risk of losing ourself. Because if we lose contact with ourself, then who is our partner really in relationship anyway. It restricts the passion, it restricts the intimacy because we’ve abandoned or lost our sense of self. So this ability to be solid, differentiated in relationship is one of the hardest tasks that we’re up against, particularly if we’ve had pain, and insecurity, and threat as it relates to relationship, in our upbringing, as well as in previous romantic relationships. This is where Dr. Susan Johnson and David Schnarch perhaps have been in opposition and not in great support of one another’s work. But as we’re gonna flesh this out a little bit more today, the mechanisms in which Dr. Susan Johnson in her EFT (Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy) is supporting each individual to find their balance, to find the underbelly, the deeper relational needs, the deeper attachment needs and the deeper primary emotion. And that is one way of accessing ourself. And we’re getting the support of a therapeutic person, a counselor, a therapist, a psychologist, a coach, depending, that can assist in this process of unpacking, finding emotional balance – because that’s what Susan Johnson talks a lot about – nd being able to reveal that more vulnerably, more distilled, more clear.
Now, David Schnarch is taking more of a individual approach, and helping people find their balance, that then allows them to be more intimate. This is another place of tension for them, because in the attachment model, the research shows that if we’re secure, if we have a secure attachment, we trust that our needs are gonna get met, the relationship is solid, and will continue, there’s not threat to the relationship, and we feel emotionally safe, and seen, and understood… And if we’re encountering conflict, we stay more regulated. Our physiological response is not as charged, and we have more ability to give our partner the benefit of the doubt. Now, that’s the secure-attached person that approaches conflict in that way. So I think David Schnarch is really attempting to help support that position, but from a different angle.
Some of the mechanisms there overlap, but when we look at the EFT – again, Emotionally Focused Therapeutic approach – and I’ll put a link to that if you’re interested in learning more. The invitation in this safe container, in this therapeutic space, where the helping professionals is assisting each person in accessing the deep, core attachment needs, primary emotions, sense of self, that often is underneath conscious awareness. So in that therapeutic safe space, when one can reveal in that balanced, clear, distilled way, and the partner can hear, it softens the dynamic. There’s more seeing what’s true and real, so in that moment there is more differentiation. Because typically, when couples are caught in a conflict or a disconnect, they’re both participating in ways of trying to get their needs met through tendencies that are not very direct, or again, revealing that sense of self. It’s almost as if we wanna point out to our significant other. “Look, let me show you. Let me articulate. Or let me complain, and give you some better understanding. Let me paint a picture of why this is so challenging”, but we don’t say it directly.
And when we speak in terms of pointing it out through the situation or through what your partner is doing, it’s likely that they’re gonna get defensive, they’re gonna have a different perspective, and they wanna argue, and they don’t feel seen. They feel misunderstood. Their needs are not being clearly seen either. This is why I created the “Shifting criticism into connected communication” guide. It’s a free guide; if you’re interested in accessing it, you can go on today’s show notes, or even just the main page, DrJessicaHiggins.com. Again, the show notes can be found under Podcast, and today’s episode is 238, “How to find your emotional balance in relationship.” This guide is a very simple to use, side-by-side, example-by-example languaging and approach of what is critical, compared to what is not critical. It can give you a sense of the approach and how to start implementing this and practicing this.
I would encourage a deeper dive, and again, accessing the sense of self, and the attachment needs, and what’s going on underneath, which is why I developed the Shifting Criticism Into Connected Communication Course. So if you opt in, give your email, get the guide, you will get the email series that will give you more information and more tips and things to consider, that then also give you an opportunity to access the course.
This course was in response to people’s request for help in navigating this very damaging dance of criticism and defensiveness. So as we’re talking about sense of self, this is one of the dynamics where couples are attempting and putting energy into being heard and seen, but by means of trying to get our significant other to respond to us in the way that we’re wanting, through criticism, as the tendency to perhaps complain, or again, like I said, articulate or criticize to get change… But that typically isn’t gonna be lasting, even if it works for a little while. It’s damaging to the bond, the love connection, and the process of developing a strong sense of self for each individual within the relationship.
Going back to when I first encountered Dr. David Schnarch’s work through the book Passionate Marriage, I personally was going through intense challenge in my relationship at the time. While we had such passion and connection and intensity in our bond, very quickly we began to spin our wheels. We would go for hours, communicating, trying, attempting to feel seen and understood by one another. And we were in this dance of defensiveness, criticizing, articulating, and so it wasn’t a lack of communication that was problematic. It was that we were having great difficulty being able to reveal that deeper underbelly to one another, and feeling safe to do that; and that we were reacting to each other, we were defending ourselves, we were protesting and feeling threatened by one another. I could go on and on, but it was exhausting and painful, and it ultimately ended up contributing to our break-up.
In the book Intimacy and Desire by Dr. David Schnarch, he writes “Emotional gridlock comes from you and your partner doing what everyone does to build a good relationship. You regulate each other’s anxieties by accommodating, bolstering each other’s reflected sense of self. You give in to your partner on one issue, and then your partner gives in to you on another. This keeps everyone’s anxieties down and makes you feel loved and wanted. However, each adaptation brings you one step closer to the critical point where you can’t or won’t adapt any longer. In another section, he says conflict is inevitable because of inherent dynamics in love relationships.”
You can agree to disagree about intangibles, like emotions, perceptions and values. You can debate political issues throughout your marriage without a problem. But this doesn’t work when it comes to behavior that dramatically impacts your partner, as well as yourself. Try agreeing about whether your partner has an affair. This is why the four most common areas of emotional gridlock are sex, money, kids and in-laws. You can’t agree to disagree about these things and go along your merry way.”
And on an aside, when he’s saying “Reflected sense of self”, he’s referring to the process of how we develop, in that in the early stages of our human development individually, we have a process of recognizing we are separate than our primary caregiver, or our mother or our father, and we get a sense of our physical boundary and our sense of self. And emotionally, that bonds that supports us in growing, we are mind-mapping and we are reading the queues from our loved ones and the people in our life that help us get our sense of self, and we internalize that. So part of what we’re up against in adulthood is that we still may utilize some of those old tendencies to get that reinforcement, to feel that sense of self. That reinforcement that we are good, that we are okay, that we are loved.
Now, what David Schnarch is really saying is in order for us to fully develop and mature, we need to develop a solid sense of self and differentiate. He offers the four points of balance, which I’m gonna go into, but I’m gonna just note, again, the difference. ETF (Susan Johnson’s work) is approaching this in an entirely different way; again, helping someone have their individual emotional balance, that sense of self and what’s true, and being able to reveal that more vulnerably, so you can send a clear queue, and your partner can be present and express that softening and that care. Because when things are disarmed, there is that love, there is that connection. When someone doesn’t have to defend against an attack or defend against a misunderstanding, or a mis-accusation, there’s so much more ability to be intimate and be there. Whereas Dr. David Schnarch is wanting to encourage people to have these practices, to cultivate this sense of differentiation, sense of self. And that when you start to practice, you will very quickly see your partner respond.
Now, it’s quite possible that the same shift and the same mechanisms are at play. Again, just how a couple or an individual is arriving into that fundamental change is different. Again, quoting Dr. David Schnarch in the book “Intimacy and desire”, a solid sense of self develops from confronting yourself, challenging yourself to do what’s right, and earning your own self-respect. It develops from inside you, rather than from internalizing what’s around you. This is in contrast to couples who are emotionally fused. David Schnarch says “Every move one of you makes upsets the other’s emotional balance. One’s efforts to control or mobilize herself deeply perturbs the other.” So this is essentially being too close, and that you’re too dependent on each other for your emotional balance.
Dr. David Schnarch says “When you rely on someone for a positive sense of self, you invariably try to control him or her”, because it’s your source of positive affirmation, of sense of self.
In David Schnarch’s work, he’s recommending practicing differentiation through the four points of balance, which I’m gonna go into now. This helps couples get out of and develop a solid sense of self, as well as untangle the emotional gridlock.
The first – solid, flexible self, which is the ability to be clear about who you are and what you’re about, especially when your partner pressures you to adapt and conform.
In the last week I had a couple separate sessions with two individual clients – both happened to be men – that were contemplating them having lost connection, or perhaps not even having a great connection to begin with, with that solid sense of self, about being clear of who you are and what you’re about, what you want, what you don’t want, and your preferences, your needs, your values, particularly when it’s in opposition with a significant other.
Now, both of these men happen to have chose women that are very strong personalities, and are very clear and assertive about what they’re wanting. Now, in some respects, we can look at this and we can see that if one partner is more dominant and more assertive, that can alleviate anxieties around uncertainties, or insecurities, where we might not know where someone stands.
So when somebody’s super-clear, super-transparent, super-dominant, there’s no question about where they lie. However, we fast-forward this and building a life together, co-creating, we can see that that doesn’t lend towards a mutually life-giving relationship. So these two men are contemplating “What gets in the way of me showing up.” I do think this is where having the safe, therapeutic space can support someone to feel safe enough to do that discovery work. Then when there’s contact, that’s when we might be able to assert, or set limits or requests of our significant other. But again, if we’ve been in a long-standing tendency of not even knowing, it can be difficult to access this. It’s not to say that it’s not possible, because David Schnarch has lots to contribute in this way. And what I have seen is when people feel safe, they’re willing to go there; it’s just, again, it’s been scary, there’s been good reason why they haven’t gone there… So it can be frightening sometimes.
The second point of balance – quiet mind, calm heart. Being able to calm yourself down, soothe your own hurts and regulate your own anxieties. I think this can be particularly challenging when there is threat to the health of the relationship. Now, the threat might actually come from one’s own doubts or fears, that could relate to the attachment working model, the insecure attachment style. And when we don’t have that sense that everything will be okay – we’re just hitting a bump in the road – that’s a more secure approach to look at the anxieties or look at the opportunity to reveal ourselves more. If we have that safe container, that’s easier to do.
So if let’s say commitment is a concern; you don’t have a formal commitment in the way of life partnership or marriage, that can make this work even that much more difficult. It’s worth noting that having a safe container to do this growth work in relationship was one of the themes that came out of my dissertation work. We do need some container. So when I was contemplating David Schnarch’s work through the book Passionate Marriage years and years ago, one of the things that I really relied on was a sense of spiritual holding, in that I felt held spiritually. But I was gonna be okay fundamentally with that spiritual perspective.
When it comes to our physiology, particularly when we are more activated, perhaps even triggered in that fight, flight or freeze response, we know that many of our systems are offline, because we’re in that sympathetic response, and we want to get the parasympathetic nervous system responding. And one of the quickest ways to do that is taking at least 20 minutes to remove yourself from the tension – it doesn’t necessarily mean you have to leave-leave; it might just be finding a quiet place in a different part of the house or the home… And finding a way to breathe more deeply, perhaps stretching, doing deeper belly-breathing, perhaps meditating, journaling… Whatever is gonna calm you. Maybe taking a hot shower, or a bath, perhaps some people wanna take a nap… Whatever is gonna support more relaxation, that then helps to get the parasympathetic nervous system responding, that then starts to regulate. We start to think more clearly, we start to feel our heart open… And that’s gonna assist us in this process of knowing ourselves and being available for intimacy.
The third point of balance – grounded responding. The ability to stay calm and not over-react, rather than creating distance or running away when your partner gets anxious or upset. Again, I think this can be extremely difficult when we’ve known trauma, we’ve known pain in the way of relationship… And again, if you missed the two-part series on fears of intimacy, I wanna encourage you to check that out, because really what that’s about is that when we’ve known pain and trauma and hurt as it relates to relationship, we often suppress it, we often put it in into our own conscious, and it’s informing our fear level and being close; but if we’re not aware, we’re not conscious, we can create distance, in many different ways. I go over that in that two-part series, as well as eight types of fears of intimacy. So when we’ve known pain, that’s gonna be that much more anxiety-provoking in the moment. So to stay regulated, to stay calm is a practice, and sometimes we need support to be able to do that… Because again, if we’re not conscious of it, it’s really hard to work with it directly. Oftentimes we have certain coping strategies, defense mechanisms, and that gets us through, but again, if we’re not looking at the underlying, we might miss that we’re afraid, or we’re scared.
Yesterday I met with a couple, and this is the first time I had met with them. They were describing their pain point, which is these times, these incidences where they both engage in yelling, and it’s very escalated. As we were discussing, they did say in the past there have been times where one of them will remove themselves from the situation and they’re able to calm down at least an hour. So the 20 minutes doesn’t work for her particularly. She said “We need at least an hour, and then we’re able to come back together.” However, they were describing they don’t do a great job of repairing and gaining resolution about the issues, they just kind of smooth it over… And it was really cute. They’re an older couple and they were really cute with each other, they were affectionate, they were laughing, and there was a lot of love between them. However, as we met, it became clear as they were sharing that there was deep pain that they were not acknowledging, and that the other was not aware of in these moments of tension.
And one of the things we talked about is “What if they could see it happening, or what if they could be honest about it starting to happen?” So on a scale from one to ten, starting to recognize it when it gets into the four or the five. I’ve given examples in the past on this show that I have said to my husband in an interaction where I’m noticing myself starting to get tense and perhaps even upset, I will say “I am starting to get defensive” or “I’m starting to get upset.” I will either ask for what I need, or I’ll say I need to take a break and come back, and revisit it… So ideally, we wanna send a clear cue before we’re in that fight or flight. That supports us in being able to regulate and stay grounded, and in a position where we can respond… Because if we go too far into the six, seven, eight, nine, ten range, we are not able to respond. Again, our higher levels of thinking are offline, and we’re often feeling threatened and protective, and really little good is gonna come from trying to proceed in that activated, triggered state.
The fourth point of balance – meaningful endurance. Being able to step up and face the issues that bedevil you and your relationship, and the ability to tolerate discomfort for the sake of growth. This is something I talk about often, is that when we are experiencing some level of conflict, that that can be curriculum for our developing, both individually and in relationship, if we so choose. And the approach is what really matters here.
One of the things he’s encouraging is this tolerating discomfort. Most of us, all of us as humans, as animals, we’re gonna avoid pain and seek pleasure. That’s just how we’re wired. And so if we’re gonna evolve that, it’s being able to look a little bit further than the immediate moment. In the past you may have heard me talk about focusing your attention on the long-term benefit of not avoiding the pain, or perhaps not seeking the pleasure. It’s going against automatic impulse. So being able to tolerate some of that discomfort of not seeking pleasure, and not avoiding pain, so confronting pain, or delaying immediate gratification can support us in having those longer-term benefits.
For example, if we take one of the clients that I mentioned earlier that hasn’t been in touch with what he wants, what’s important to him, what he needs… So if we look at that, what’s the pain that he’s been associating with bringing what’s true for him to the table?
One of the clients was saying “I’m afraid that I will be rejected, or that I will experience abandonment.” So that’s huge, but oftentimes we’re not conscious of this. We just go along our merry way, doing what we do, and the avoidance tendency of not bringing ourselves to the table if there’s a conflict, and we’re just going along with what someone else wants… But if we look at the long-term cost of that, it’s huge.
Similarly, if we look at the long-term benefit of him coming to the table, showing up with his needs, we can see that he’s gonna feel connected to himself, have a more solid sense of self, and the opportunity for deeper levels of intimacy and longevity in his marriage.
While it’s common to fear rejection, not being good enough, abandonment, in this frame it’s the short-term pain that we’re avoiding the risk of that. And if we look at what happens when we show up, if we look at that in the bigger picture, typically it’s super-sexy and attractive to see and hear what’s so true for your partner and authentic for them. Yes, albeit it if it’s threatening, then we get caught on that track. But generally, if we get to hear and see what’s true and passionate for someone, that’s enlivening, that’s where the passion gets ignited.
Several years ago when my husband and I lived in Boulder, Colorado, I had a private practice and there was an organization in town that was doing men’s work, and they were leading retreats. And I remember having a conversation with the owner and founder of the organization as I was contemplating collaborating with them in some way, and I was telling him “Look, I have a difficult time with the way that this is marketed”, because it was marketed to essentially help men become a chick magnet. And he said “Look, that’s what gets guys into the door, but what we end up doing is breath work, transformational work, helping them get in touch with themselves and being able to stand on their two feet, have a solid sense of self, and be able to express that. And that’s what’s attractive.”
Coming back to David Schnarch’s work, he talks about this solid sense of self is critical to our sense of passion, sexual desire, and sexual intimacy. If you’re interested in learning more about David Schnarch’s work, you could check out Intimacy and Desire, Passionate Marriage, and Resurrecting Sex.
In summary, the four points of balance by Dr. David Schnarch – a solid, flexible self, quiet mind, calm heard, grounded responding, and meaningful endurance.
Again, if you would like access to today’s show notes, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com, click on Podcast and there you’ll find today’s episode, 238, “How to find your emotional balance in relationship.”
Until next time, I hope you take great care.
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