Hi, thank you for joining the Empowered Relationship Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Jessica Higgins, a licensed psychologist and relationship coach. Today’s episode is 259, “How do you improve problematic relationship dynamics when ADHD symptoms exist” an interview with Melissa Orlov.
Before we get started, I want to take a moment and just take a deep breath with you. And as we just take a breath and bring attention to the present moment, I want to invite you to just touch in on what feels most important, most alive for you as you’re listening to this episode. Perhaps this topic specifically relates to something you experienced in your relationship, or perhaps you’re tuning in to see if there’s some other aspect that can relate to what you’re experiencing more specifically. Because I do believe a lot of these relationship principles, even if the topic does not exactly fit, that there’s a way that these principles can apply to other aspects of relationship challenge.
The intention for the Empowered Relationship Podcast is to support you in the journey of cultivating long-lasting intimacy, knowing that there will be challenges along the way, and that we might be called into developing ourselves in areas that maybe we haven’t looked at, or perhaps even heal pain or previous injury or even trauma that we’re getting shown, or is getting activated in the relationship dynamic; because I truly believe relationship is a teacher.
My goal is to deliver tips, research, strategies, principles for you to consider, so that you can feel better prepared, more well equipped as you negotiate relationship with your significant other… All with the goal of cultivating more happiness, more harmony, more security, safety, authenticity, joy, love and intimacy, as we, again negotiate, cultivate, co-create long-lasting relationship.
If you would like access to today’s show notes, you can visit drjessicahiggins.com. In the top navigation bar, you’ll see Podcast and if you click on that you’ll have access to all the episodes. And again, today’s episode is 259, “How do you improve problematic relationship dynamics when ADHD symptoms exist”, an interview with Melissa Orlov.
Let’s get started in today’s episode.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Melissa Orlov is the founder of adhdmarriage.com and the author of two award-winning books on the impact of ADHD in relationships – The ADHD Effect on Marriage, published in 2010 and The Couple’s Guide To Thriving With ADHD, published in 2014. She is considered one of the foremost authorities on the topic of how ADHD impacts adult relationships.
A marriage consultant, Melissa helps ADHD-affected couples from around the world rebalance their relationships and learn to thrive through her seminars, consulting and books. She also teaches marriage counselors and other professionals about effective marriage therapy for couples impacted by ADHD. Melissa, thank you for joining us today.
Melissa Orlov: Oh, thanks, Jessica. I’m so happy to be here.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, and as I’ve mentioned, you’ve been on our show before, I’ll make sure to put that link to today’s show notes, so people have that as a reference as you talk about ADHD, what it looks like in couplehood; you’re such a wealth of knowledge and resource around this, so it’s a gift to have you on the show again.
Melissa Orlov: Thanks.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And today we’re going to be talking about the problematic dynamics. Can you give us a sense of what we’re talking about when we’re looking at problematic dynamics when a partner has ADHD?
Melissa Orlov: Well, so one of the things that happens is that ADHD, the presence of the ADHD symptoms encourage very predictable patterns in a relationship, as each partner responds in very sort of human ways to those symptoms. And there are a number of different patterns; some of them include what I call the parent-child dynamic, which I think probably we should focus on today. But others include a lot of what I call the “chore wars”, a lot of problems around chores and tasks and responsibilities.
Another issue is about misinterpreting symptoms. So the symptoms show up and if you didn’t know about the ADHD, which many couples didn’t when they first got married or when they first got together, you would misinterpret those symptoms as meaning something different than they do mean. And also, there’s a huge amount of sort of chronic anger and resentment and the things that build up. So there are a bunch of different patterns; I cover them in my first book in particular. But the interesting thing, I think, is that they’re really predictable, because they’re based in the symptoms and then also in those responses to those symptoms.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And what do you see if couples don’t start addressing these problematic dynamics?
Melissa Orlov: Well, unfortunately, the misinterpretations of the symptoms and some of the emotional disregulation that comes with ADHD, the change between sort of what the relationship actually looks like versus what you expected to get, leads to so much anger and resentment and hopelessness that for the majority of couples where one or both people have ADHD, they really struggle. So it is important actually to learn what’s going on to be able to respond to it with ways that are known to work for these couples.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Okay, well let’s dive into a little bit more of one of these. It sounds like the parent-child dynamic will be most helpful. What would that entail? And what does that look like for people that are probably new to this?
Melissa Orlov: So the presence of the ADHD symptoms include things like chronic distractibility, like having trouble with impatience or impulsivity, sort of jumping on things without giving them much thought. Some people have hyperactivity, some people don’t. There’s a lot of issue with time management, with being able to either initiate or complete tasks. So a combination of these and you end up with certain kinds of behaviors that are a problem in the relationship, like promising to do something and then actually not following through in a consistent way and actually doing them within the timeframe, or being very, very distractible and not ending up paying very much attention to the other partner, which if you didn’t know about the ADHD, you could misinterpret as meaning that the ADHD partner doesn’t care about you.
So the parent-child dynamic is around the symptoms that have to do with being able to complete tasks, being able to visualize the future, essentially being able to stand up and be an equal partner; the symptoms and the symptomatic behaviors get in the way. And the way that couples adjust to this is that the non-ADHD partner takes on too much responsibility, because the ADHD partner is so inconsistent. And it starts out as a very positive thing, “Gee, you have trouble with this? I can do this very quickly”, the I’ll-just-do-it kind of attitude. But as their lives together continue and there’s more of this, and also when children are added and there are actually more responsibilities, that becomes a real burden for that non-ADHD, or sometimes a some more organized ADHD partner, and they end up being in a managerial role, and they end up managing the ADHD partner.
So it ends up being like a parent figure for the non-ADHD partner, and a child-like figure with fewer responsibilities, or sometimes it’s resistance or just a sort of a following mode for the ADHD partner. And that means they’re very unequal, it’s unsexy, it creates a lot of anger and frustration. It’s also not the partnership that these couples were looking for.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah, I’m glad you said not sexy, because I just imagine the ramifications of all of this and how this would translate to sexual intimacy, attraction, even joy and happiness and fun and play… And like you’re mentioning, the resentment and the hurt and the pain around not feeling that the other person either cares or is sharing in the load of the life together.
Melissa Orlov: Right. And so then if you say – and this would make sense if ADHD were not present – if you say, “Well, my partner isn’t following through on his or her promises, therefore they don’t care about me”, that would be actually a reasonable interpretation in a relationship that didn’t have ADHD. But what it probably means when the ADHD is present is that the ADHD is not well enough managed to be able to follow through, no matter the intention or how much that partner loves that person.
There’s this huge amount of grief and hurt and anger that wells up because you get all these broken promises, essentially.”Yes, I’ll do that” and then it doesn’t get done over and over. And you have conversations that, you know, “Oh, well, I meant to do it.” Pretty soon it becomes a very sensitive area for both people.
And you’re right, completely not joyous. A lot of struggle, a lot of, like, “I don’t understand why you can’t do this stuff. What’s wrong with you?” kind of conversation, particularly if you don’t know about the ADHD being there. And ADHD partners suffer also, because they start to feel small or unimportant or over-managed. I’d like to say, you know, the ADHD attitude after a while becomes, “You’re not the boss of me, leave me alone.” And that’s exactly how I would respond if it were me, you know, being micromanaged.
The micromanagement is for a reason, it’s to try to get things done and to try to motivate the ADHD partner, but it’s not relevant for the actual facts on the ground. It’s not an issue of motivation, it’s an issue of symptoms not being well enough managed.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Can you say more about that, from your vantage point, around symptoms being managed?
Melissa Orlov: Well, so management of symptoms for ADHD – the good news is that the majority of adults who have ADHD can manage their symptoms quite well, with a combination of multiple approaches. So I’ve created a structure to help people sort of conceptualize what that looks like. It has three legs. The first leg of that is physiological treatments, things that change the way the brain functions, because ADHD is a result of differences in neurochemistry for the people who have ADHD. So when you change the chemistry of the brain, say with medications or with exercise, with fish oil and with some of the things that work on how the brain functions, that changes the performance and the consistency of the person who has ADHD.
Then there’s another leg, which is behavioral strategies that the ADHD partner puts into place, like structures that help keep that person on task, keeps them from being distracted, keeps them from moving into an impulsive decision when they shouldn’t; reminds them at the right time when to do things. Those kinds of structures – there are millions of different approaches for that; maybe not millions, but many.
And then the third leg is about interactions, because couples can co-regulate around ADHD once they both understand it. As an example, in the parent-child dynamics that I’m talking about, it’s not just the underperformance of the ADHD partner that is a problem, it’s also the over-performance of the parent figure that is a problem as well. The anger and the demands and the lack of recognition of the fact that even if you don’t like the fact that the ADHD partner hasn’t done something, they are still an adult, they have the right to be in a relationship as an adult. And so there are things that couples can do to make their interactions much easier and more constructive and happier.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And going back to the second leg around the structure, are there things that you suggest the ADHD partner do and be responsible for? And/or also the couple do as a couple dynamic or structure that supports the ADHD, managing the ADHD symptoms.
Melissa Orlov: Well, so both things need to happen. In terms of my model, the second leg is specifically for the ADHD partner, because the management of the ADHD is the responsibility of that partner, ultimately; it’s his or her body, it’s his or her actions. You know, from a healthy boundary perspective, managing the ADHD is that partner’s responsibility. The things that a couple can do to help manage the ADHD in the relationship – I put those in leg three just in terms of the model – both need to happen. In fact, you need to have things from every single leg. Even if you don’t want to take medication, for example, you still need to be getting enough sleep and getting some good exercise and doing other things that help modulate the neurochemical differences in your brain, in leg one. So optimal treatment for ADHD involves taking multiple strategies as are appropriate for your specific symptoms, and applying those multiple strategies from all three legs.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I’m curious, Melissa, do you find that people get in their own way a little bit in their treatment, in the sense of acknowledging the ADHD presence for the ADHD partner? And even I’m thinking, as you mentioned in the parent-child dynamic, the over-functioning non-ADHD partner might think, “Oh, I got this. If I just work a little harder, we’ll get this stable,” or there’s some hope that they can do it all, or maybe don’t even acknowledge the resentment that might start to [unintelligible 00:15:53.19] in. I guess I’m curious what you would say about how people and how they conceptualize this, or even accept this existence of the ADHD presence impacts how they approach treatment.
Melissa Orlov: Yeah, it’s actually one of the first challenges… Therapists who work with people with ADHD, one of the first challenges that they have is getting both parties to both accept the ADHD is present and also accept that they both have a role to play in repairing the relationship. Because the typical—this is one of these dynamics that couples go in—a typical dynamic is a mutual denial dynamic. When they first start therapy or really dealing with the relationship, the non-ADHD partner is likely to say, “If you would just fix the ADHD everything would be fine,” and the ADHD partner, who observes this chronic anger and resentment and over functioning or whatever, says “If you would just be nicer to me, everything would be fine.” And so you have to get past those two mindsets. It’s not that easy.
People know they have ADHD — if they know that they have ADHD… And most adults with it don’t actually know; the estimate right now is about 80% of adults with ADHD actually don’t know they have it. But even if they know about the ADHD, it’s hard for many to really accept that it’s making a big difference. And some of that comes down to the anger and the blame, right? If your partner is sure that everything will be fine if the ADHD is managed, you would, I think, see that as, “Well this means it’s all about me. All of our problems are all about me. And I know better because I’m living this too, and I’m just not willing to take on that blame.” That’s one of the issues. Another is a fear of not being able to do anything about it, or a feeling of overwhelm that it’s really hard to manage ADHD, and where do I even start?
So there are a bunch of reasons that the ADHD partner may resist, at least at first, engaging with the ADHD, and the non-ADHD partner often will insist that their anger and their contribution doesn’t matter much. And that’s another attitude that has to be overcome, because it matters a lot if you are angry, potentially emotionally abusing, being contemptuous towards, disrespecting or putting down your partner. And people don’t—they think of it as expressing their anger because that’s what they’re feeling. And while they have every right to any feeling that they have, how they express the anger is important.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Precisely. So, so important. And as you’re talking, the non-ADHD partner often feels really justified, feels warranted, feels unseen and unheard, and it’s like, the attempts to feel heard. And like you’re saying, the acknowledgment that the emotion and the experience is valid and genuine and that it’s harmful and destructive to be critical, blaming, abusing your partner, and that’s not productive for the actual healing and repair and working together.
Melissa Orlov: Yeah, and one of the things that non-ADHD partners feel, “Look, of course I’m angry. My partner keeps promising me stuff and not doing it.” And to which I say, “Yep, it’s totally logical that you’re angry, and you two definitely need to work on that and here are six strategies for doing that.” But also understand that how you’re expressing that anger makes a big difference. If you think that you should use your anger as a bludgeon to get your partner to work harder, what you will end up with instead is a very defensive, resistant partner, because who wants to be bludgeoned? That’s not how you can accept and hear anger.
And society at large is sort of on the non-ADHD partner side at least right now, because we value efficiency, and ADHD is not particularly efficient with all of its distractibility and time management issues and other things that go along with it. And so it’s pretty easy for the non-ADHD partner to feel as if, well, they are right and their partner is wrong, versus looking at it as, “Hey, our brains work in two different ways; we do things differently, and the relationship and household that we have right now may not be particularly ADHD-friendly, and we can fix that.”
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I love that recognition and the different ways that the brain works in supporting and really advocating for the well-being of the ADHD partner. And you know, as you were talking a moment ago about just the cultural implications of this and just what people perhaps experienced before the relationship, and perhaps having some level of fear of failing or inadequacy or shame around not being able to hit the mark or follow through or whatever pre-existing insecurities were there before the marriage or before the relationship.
Melissa Orlov: Yeah. And for ADHD partners, this is actually a really big issue, for a whole variety of reasons. It can start as early as the family of origin, because it is hereditary. So it’s quite possible that people who have—adults who have ADHD had undiagnosed parent or two parents with ADHD, and that they had all of the classic predictable struggles in their own family, that at that point, because just of the way that ADHD care has matured, nobody was really paying much attention to. So there was probably a lot of blaming and anger and frustration and other things, as well as this impact, which is parents, teachers, coaches, friends saying, “What’s wrong with you? Why don’t you do things the same way other people do it?”
And so even something like what you might see on a teacher’s report, which says, you know, Johnny or Mary would do so much better if he or she would only try harder in class, which totally missed the idea of what ADHD is all about, it creates shame. So there is a lot of shame that is brought to these relationships; it’s very easy to trigger. Lots of times when the shame is triggered, it comes out as anger, because it feels really bad to be thrown to that place. And so you respond angrily, as in, you know, “Don’t do something that makes me feel shame” anger kind of thing.
So there, this is just one of the areas or places that some of the emotionality of these relationships comes from, in addition to ADHD now, as people are starting to understand even more about ADHD, they’re realizing that a lot of emotional disregulation is actually a core characteristic of ADHD.
Very big emotions, very small breaks on those emotions, and that’s another element of that parent-child dynamic, where the parent is the sort of calmer, more rational, more regulated figure, the non-ADHD parent figure, and the child-like ADHD figure is emotionally disregulated, flies off the handle, doesn’t stay steady, which is another surprise in these relationships.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So it could look like the ADHD partner is angry, and perhaps yelling or demonstrating angry outbursts, or really perhaps is experiencing a lot of emotional disregulation.
Melissa Orlov: Yeah, which an anger outburst is anger, but it is — sometimes it’s about overwhelm or triggers into shame or whatever. It’s just a very large amount of emotional content, which feels very overwhelming. And a lot of people describe their partner as volatile, or “Has bursts of anger that I never know when they’re coming.” And one of these dynamics then that ends up is that the other partner is sort of as they call it, walking on eggshells, because they never know when their partner’s going to explode. They explode over what seem to be very little things; like, you say “Did you take out the trash?” or something, and suddenly the partner is off in the orbit.
Lots of times I’d say to couples, look underneath that, because lots of times what seems little to the non-ADHD partner is actually part of a larger theme, often having to do with this parent-child dynamic, as in, “You’re not the boss of me” or not wanting to be critiqued in terms of how the ADHD partner is functioning.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Or feeling even perhaps, mis-seen, if that’s a word, right? That you don’t see all the other positive things that I do or the ways that I contribute, and you’re focusing on the negative and feeling unappreciated.
Melissa Orlov: Right, right. And of course, not being seen is something that both partners will tell you they suffer from, as they’re feeling a lot of pain and grieving and other things, and having trouble talking about it because there’s so much emotional content in the relationship and so much distress that it’s really hard to hear your other partner.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: No kidding. So Melissa, what are you wanting to say today to help people start to begin to think about how they can address or start shifting out of this parent-child problematic dynamic?
Melissa Orlov: Well, there certainly are things that you can do. I’ve watched many hundreds of couples move through this, because it is, I think, the most common problem that shows up for couples impacted by ADHD. And so there is a path through it that has a number of different steps, but the first of which is really being able to get to a point where both of you recognize that you both play a role. The ADHD symptoms and symptomatic behaviors are having a big impact, and so are the non-ADHD partner responses. That both things are important and that both individuals need to be focusing on working on themselves and not blaming their partner, but rather saying, “What is it that I can do better to contribute myself as a better partner into this relationship?” So that’s one of the first steps.
I think the second step is to optimize that treatment for ADHD, and go through those three legs and really getting a robust approach to managing the ADHD symptoms and symptomatic behaviors. It makes a huge difference in terms of how consistent and reliable that partner is, which is a big issue in the relationship.
At the same time, on the other side of the partnership, everything you can to stop parenting; moving away from the assumption that, you know, “If I don’t do it, it won’t get done,” or “It has to be done my way,” or “If I am angry enough, my partner will be motivated” or those kinds of assumptions. You know, not nagging not pursuing, not overseeing. And that’s a touchy transition; those two things have to go hand in hand, because if the ADHD partner isn’t better managing the ADHD, the problem of the inconsistency doesn’t go away.
If the non-ADHD partner isn’t less managerial, the ADHD partner doesn’t have any place to go to become more competent, right? Because everything’s being sort of overseen and managed. So they really do go hand in hand. And I would say, I also encourage people to understand, as they’re going through this, what the absolute positive must-haves are for them for the relationship, versus the nice-to-haves. We have a lot of nice-to-haves, like, you know, having your living room look a certain way or whatever, that are probably not must-haves for the relationship. So reassessing that.
And I would say the final thing, you know, just for today, is putting emotional disregulation as a big priority for the relationship. It’s a huge part of being able to work through how you’re going to approach this together. If the ADHD partner is emotionally volatile and flies into a rage, it makes it very hard to figure out, you know, “How are we going to get these chores done better? How are we going to pay more attention to each other? What is it that you want from this relationship? How can we hear each other?” The emotional volatility gets in the way of all of that. So that’s a big part actually, of getting out of the parent-child dynamic.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, there’s so much support in what you’re laying out. I want to focus on the last one a little bit more, if you’re open to it. You mentioned three things that I would love for you to offer some examples around, if you’re open to it. One is a way that the ADHD partner might be able to work with shame, and how the non-ADHD partner might be able to work with anger. And then what they can do as a couple to co-regulate, all on the theme of that emotional regulation. Is there something you might be able to share in each of those areas?
Melissa Orlov: Yeah, shame comes from a couple different places, as I’ve talked about before; some of it is family of origin, some of it is performance, and some of it is just stories that – or not just, but stories that you tell yourself about, you know, you’re no good, or you’ve never been good enough, or all those kinds of stories.
So the shame is usually taken care of or addressed in two realms. One is with counseling, and that can be looking at family of origin issues, as well as looking at whether the stories you’re telling yourself are actually true, and what could you replace those stories with. And the other realm for dealing with shame is about competence. If you become more capable of being reliable, of following through, if you can gain some pride in your ability to actually do things, that comes from the management of the ADHD, which is why that optimizing treatment is way up front.
And so those are the sort of two-pronged — and you know, that’s a simplistic view of it. But that’s the sort of two directions. The anger side of things – it depends in part on where the anger is originating from, how it’s expressed, etc. I give a couples seminar, and I talk a lot in the couples seminar about getting around anger and where it comes from and what it is. But again, to simplify, you have the physiologically based anger, which is these very large emotions, easily triggered from shame, fear, things like that. And one of the ways to manage that can be medicinally, so through the physiological realm, because this is physiologically based, the sort of extent or the extreme nature of the disregulation.
The other area for anger has to do with the environmental things that are around you. So for example, when you’re in the child position in that parent-child dynamic, becoming a more equal partner will help diffuse the anger because you don’t have that issue anymore to make you angry. So all of the things that you would do to diminish the parent-child stuff, which again, includes becoming more reliable, setting up ways to communicate when angry or to keep from escalating into anger – all of these things can be done between the partners. Those are just some examples. And that brings me to the couple co-regulation.
I’ll give you one example, which is actually one of my favorite tools in this realm, which is using a verbal cue, where you set up a verbal cue intended to interrupt escalation into a flooded, nobody has any control, angry situation. These are the knockdown drag-out fights that nobody seems to be able to leave, that’s actually physiologically based in overwhelm. So we use one of these in my own relationship, and it’s a sort of nonsensical word, because when somebody with ADHD starts to get agitated, if you say, “Hey, you’re getting agitated” or “Don’t be so angry” they take that as an affront and become more agitated, right? Because it sounds like you’re trying to manage them, which is not the point.
But anyway, so we’ve set up a cue that we’ve agreed to when we’re not angry, which is that if I say the word aardvark, the response that we have is always the same – my husband stops talking, I stop talking, and we self-calm, we both self-calm and we either set the conversation aside temporarily, if we need to, or more often, try to approach it differently so that we’re not triggering each other.
And that works, because we have practiced it and we’ve agreed to those follow-up steps… And because aardvark is such a weird word, we would never use it in a regular sentence. So it’s very obviously, you know, big sign, big arrows pointing at “This is a verbal cue! We have a disagreement here.” You know, it works great. And happily, we don’t have to use it very often anymore, because we’ve calmed things in other ways.” But it is just one of many strategies, I think, around co-regulation, around ADHD symptoms, where you recognize there is this dysregulation, there is a quick ramp-up, and you don’t have to live with that; you can create a different routine.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Thank you for sharing that. I love the personal example. It’s so fun to offer those when relevant as well. Like, we’re in this too, right? And what I talk about on the show, I do my best to practice all of these principles myself, and so it just makes it that much more relatable.
So if I’m hearing you correctly, Melissa, are you saying that you and your spouse practiced this when things were calm? So you got like iteration and an experience of it, so that when things got a little bit more tense, that you had something to reference? And you also had steps around “Well, what does this mean?” Because I’ve seen couples say, “Well, we’ve tried a word, but it doesn’t work.” And I think oftentimes, people don’t know what comes after that, right? They attempt, but as you said, when it’s in that flooded state, it’s like, “Well, what do we do now?” And not having a lot of practice beforehand; it’s like, it’s much harder to do when the stakes are that much higher.
Melissa Orlov: Yeah, it’s pretty hard to practice an anger cue when you’re not angry in reality. Another personal story – we didn’t arrive at aardvark at first. What you do when you’re calm is you make the agreement that this really is important to do. You both commit to making it work and figuring out how to make it work, and you commit to what you think the steps are, and then at the next opportunity, you try it out and you see if it works. And if it doesn’t work, you learn from that and try to modify, so it will work. And that’s actually what happened to us. We agreed we wanted to use a verbal cue, and I think the verbal cue we used, not knowing any better, was something like, “Gee, you’re starting to get agitated right now.” So of course, we got into a situation where my husband was starting to get agitated and I used that cue, and he says, “I’m not getting agitated. Rah-rah-rah!!” and obviously he’s not happy, because in the moment it felt to him like I was correcting him, which is the thing that made him the most agitated, right? So it just added fuel to the fire.
When things calmed down, we were kind of like, “Well, okay, that didn’t work.” And the reason it didn’t work was because it sounded like I was trying to direct him and critique him in the moment. And that’s how he took it. So then we said, “Okay, so how do we get around that?”
Really, the way to make a verbal cue work is you try it out in the situation that it’s intended for. And if it doesn’t work, you assume, you try to figure out why not, and then fix it. And you might have to fix it several times until you arrive at something that works.
I’ve had couples choose words that remind them of their honeymoon, so that it has a positive effect as well; or have the endpoint be not, “Hey, stay engaged and recalibrate”, but actually put a note on the kitchen counter about what you’re trying to talk about so you don’t forget it, and then going away and going for a walk for a while to calm yourself down. I mean, there are all sorts of different—you know, it depends on what’s not working for you.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Right. Like, when you come back, you’re still not calm enough. Or I’ve had couples say, like, to your point, for different reasons, but maybe the sentence is too much to say or too much to access; like a word is maybe easier, like one word, and then also has either a positive or neutral association. But I agree that being able to flash it out and pack it, why it didn’t work and then being able to try again…
You know, I’m glad you clarified, thank you for that. So it’s talking about it when you guys are calm and you have a plan when things perhaps do get a little more tense. But I actually don’t hate the idea of practicing it when things are calm and using the word, just because it could be a little bit of a game, but then you have a repetition with it… But anyway, it’s kind of [unintelligible 00:37:06.09]
Melissa Orlov: Yeah. Well, you know, I’ve never done it that way, just because I didn’t actually, to be honest with you, think of it. So it might work and you know, and getting an aardvark and having everybody stop talking for a moment as an example, just so you’re used to connecting those two things in your head is probably a good idea.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah. Melissa, thank you so much for everything you’ve offered. How do people get in touch with your couples course, what you’re offering, your books? I’ll make sure to put the link to your book on today’s show notes and your website, but I just would love for people to know how they can reach you, connect with you and what you’re offering.
Melissa Orlov: So my website is at adhdmarriage.com. And I have a lot of resources there for couples impacted by ADHD; obviously, my books are [unintelligible 00:37:56.08] and you can get those at Amazon and audible and all sorts of other places. But I also have a — one of the things I’m most proud of actually is my Couples Seminar, which is given by phone, so you can take it from anywhere, and it’s helped a lot of couples. It’s really about putting things into action. I also give non-ADHD partner support groups and I have a person who works with me who helps support ADHD partners as well. So really, I just try to be a resource for everybody.
You can contact me through my website, there is a contact form. I do try to answer every single email I get, though it sometimes takes a little while, because I get quite a few. But, you know, I really try my best to help everybody answer their questions.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And Melissa, just since I’ve known you, I just appreciate so much of how committed you are to helping people have awareness and access to these resources and treatment and helping people have a path to shift out of some of those problematic dynamics that we’re discussing today, but also just all the difficulty that comes with the symptomology and just your passion to help educate and support people. So thank you for what you’re doing.
Melissa Orlov: I appreciate you saying that. It’s the passion for sure.
I hope you have enjoyed today’s interview, again, with Melissa Orlov. Again, today’s episode is 259, “How to improve problematic relationship dynamics when ADHD symptomps exist.” You can find today’s show notes on DrJessicaHiggins.com. You can click on Podcast on the top navigation bar and you’ll have access to all the episodes. Again, today’s episode is 259. There on the show notes I’ll also put a free guide, “How to shift out of criticism into connected communication.” As we’ve been talking about in today’s episode, the resentment that can build up, and that we can be frustrated and maybe even angry with our significant other, and sometimes for legitimately good reasons, and still it creates this problematic dynamic where your partner is likely gonna get defensive, feel attacked and feel belittled, and it doesn’t help your partner respond to what you’re needing, and show up for you, and potentially help with the requests that you have.
If you struggle with criticism, or potentially resorting to criticism, or perhaps you’ve even gotten feedback that you can be a little critical at times, or even more critical in other times, I wanna encourage you to check out this free guide. It really assists you in developing language and how to turn critical language into more constructive language, and really giving you a side by side comparison and really giving you specific examples to work with, that really help illuminate how natural it can be to be critical, but how potentially your partner is not gonna really understand what you need, and really some guidance around how to turn that into a request.
Again, you can find that on today’s show notes, which can be found on the website DrJessicaHiggins.com. Thank you for listening to today’s episode. I so appreciate spending this time with you. Until next time, I hope you take great care.
0 Comments