Hi, thank you for tuning into the Empowered Relationship Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Jessica Higgins, licensed psychologist and relationship coach. Today’s episode is 260, “How to break free from codependency in relationship”, an interview with Sherry Gaba. Before we get started I wanna take a moment and just bring focus to the breath. I’m just inviting you to take that deep breath in and that deep breath out.
And as we do that, just bringing the focus and awareness more to the present moment, grounding yourself in this here and now. And as we do this, we can bring more awareness to our internal world, and also perhaps the aspects that we wanna shine a little more focus and light on, to learn from. And as we talk about relationship dynamics on the Empowered Relationship Podcast, really so much of what gets activated in relationship is an opportunity for healing, an opportunity for growth. And a large part of really what I’m inviting people to consider as it relates to relationship is cultivating more vulnerability, more honesty in the deeper experience. Because if we can show clear cues with our partner about those deeper layers, that allows for more intimacy and more connection. And this can be a difficult thing to access, particularly when we feel fear, or some level of threat, or worry, or we feel sad, or disappointed… And our inclination and tendency is to wanna protect.
The same vital human need for connection also exists for the vital need for safety. And when relationship patterns, or we get off-track in relationship and we misperceive each other, then that can feel unsafe. Our partner isn’t with us, or they’re seeing us in a negative light, and we don’t feel good enough, or we fear that they don’t care, or they don’t respect us, and this can get really, really painful.
The conversations on the Empowered Relationship Podcast are intended to support you in the journey of long-lasting intimacy, helping you feel better-equipped, more prepared in negotiating these tricky, difficult spots.
If you would like access to today’s show notes, you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com, and you can click on Podcast in that top navigation bar, and you’ll have access to all the episodes. Again, today’s episode is 260, and we’re looking at how to break free from codependency in relationship.
Before we get started with Sherry Gaba, I just wanna say, she comes from a more clinical background, so she’s giving us a lot of understanding around codependency and some of the features and where people get really stuck… And also, largely, her passion is about educating and really helping people understand how problematic codependency can be, and really that loss of self.
One thing she refers to a few times is the term “parentification”, and some of you might be familiar with that, but just to give you a heads up… That essentially is in a family where the child is dealing with really adult matters, and is almost asked to be the parent and caregive for the parents. So being the child, but having to help manage the parent; that is more or less the parentification. Now, that’s not the exact definition, but it’s just an understanding about it. So when she refers to that, that’s what she’s speaking about.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Sherry Gaba, LCSW, is a licensed psychotherapist and life coach who helps people cope with codependency, addictions, trauma, and mental health issues. As a leading expert on addiction and recovery, Sherry’s TV appearances include Vh1’s Celebrity Rehab, CNN, Inside Edition and the Robert Irvine Show, among others. Sherry is the author of the Amazon best seller Love Smacked: How to Stop the Cycle of Relationship Addiction and Codependency to Find Everlasting Love and Infinite Recovery, which addresses addiction and alcoholism thru the lens of the law of attraction.
Sherry, thank you for joining us today.
Sherry Gaba: I’m so excited to be here, and I love what you’re doing in the world, and I’m just honored to talk to you today.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Likewise. This is a really important topic, and a lot of people use the term codependency and really grapple with — even a client that I had this morning just really recognizing his tendencies… So I think the listeners will get a lot of value out of this. How did you get interested in the topic of codependency, if you’re open to sharing?
Sherry Gaba: So I was on Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew, and the job really was to work with addicts alcoholics. I was also married to an alcoholic… So I suddenly became an expert in addictions. Then Dr. Drew had me do the family work, and then I got a job at Promises, which was at one time a very famous celebrity rehab, and I started working the family program. And it just became a part of my life, and then I realized I had my own personal codependency and love addiction issues… So that was the reason that I sort of switched from addiction to codependency, and I also wrote a book called Love Smacked (we can talk about that later), which also touches on love addiction and codependency.
So it really was so funny that I was so focused on addiction, and that was really my codependency – the addict alcoholic ex-husband (he was my husband at the time); I just knew that I had to pull back and really focus on my story and how I’m helping people, my healing in the world, and not just focus on the addiction on the addict alcoholic.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And how do you define codependency? How can you describe that to people? I think many people have different definitions.
Sherry Gaba: So it’s really the loss of self. At first it was called codependency by Melody Beattie. She also endorsed my book, Love Smacked, and she’s really the trailblazer of codependency. It was all about the significant other, the addict and the alcoholic and the enabling behaviors that go along with that… But really, it’s broad in its definition and it’s really more about being other-focused. It’s also another addiction, like a process addiction. So it’s not a substance addiction, like drugs or alcohol, but it’s a lifestyle addiction, or you could call it a soft addiction… And it’s very self-perpetuating. You become very obsessive and compulsive, despite all the consequences, which is very similar to an addiction.
Again, it’s about the lost self. You probably grew up – and we’ll probably talk about the trauma stuff, but… Being invisible, being neglected, and so forth. You really never had a sense of self, so you became very other-focused. Some examples might be calling a partner or an ex when we shouldn’t really be doing that, sacrificing ourselves maybe financially, spiritually, mentally, physically, not really being true to our values in order to accommodate someone.
Then it can get into some other, more severe type codependency, like snooping out of jealousy or fear… So this is why codependency really has been referred to as a soft addiction… And it’s characterized by symptoms that vary on a continuum, like many things… It can range from mild to severe, it can include dependency, denial is a big one, being in love with who you want the person to be, kind of being in love with an illusion, rather than with who the person really is… It’s a very dysfunctional emotional response, and it has the same sort of idea of a craving and a reward through the interaction with that other person…
And it could also be a work situation. You could be a people-pleaser at work, you don’t have very good boundaries, you don’t know how to say no… It’s really sort of an inability to control or abstain from compulsive behavior without treatment, so you increasingly spend a lot of time thinking about being with or trying to control another person… I know I’m kind of going all over the place, but it really is a much broader definition. I actually have a list of different symptoms, but we don’t have to go into that right this minute… But if someone’s really questioning “Am I codependent?”, I have so many signs that you can look at… Like, did you come from a dysfunctional home in which your emotional needs weren’t met? Did you receive very little nurturing? Did you try to fulfill it with other people, places and things? Did you have unmet needs, so you became a caregiver, or a people-pleaser, or very needy? Did you try to change your parents? Did you not have warm, loving caretakers who really nurtured you, or did you respond sort of in a needy way because you didn’t get what you needed early on? Maybe you had addict alcoholic parents, emotionally unavailable parents… So you’re always trying to change other people through love, and we call this in the psychological world “repetition compulsion”, so we’re gonna pick what we know. If we had a very abandoning parent, or a neglectful parent, we’re gonna pick someone that’s like that in our personal relationships… And the idea is if we can just fix this person, then we can fix what happened to us early on.
A big part of my story was being really terrified of abandonment, really doing anything to hold on to a relationship in order to not experience the painful feelings of anxiety, abandonment, separation anxiety… You know, the feelings which we often received – or didn’t receive, for that matter – when we were young.
I often share my story of being a premature baby. I was in an incubator, I did not have any sort of bonding/nurturing attachment with my mother for 2,5 months… So I sort of started out as a codependent love addict in the world. I was always looking outside to fill myself up inside, because I didn’t get what I needed… And we know from studying early attachment that that’s so important to get that early attunement.
So for a codependent it’s almost like nothing is too much trouble. They’ll take as much time as you need to take care of this other person; nothing is too expensive. You’ll do anything to help this person… You’re just so accustomed to lack of love in your interpersonal relationships that you’re willing to sort of take the scraps, and willing to wait and hope and try harder to please. I can go on and on… There’s just so many parts to codependency, but I think maybe that’s a good start for you and for your listeners.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I’m curious – as you’re talking, it feels as though the codependent tendencies look different in men and women, stereotypically… And I’m curious if you find that too, where men might be a little bit more in the rescue mode, or fix-it mode, or wanting to make it all better, and women might have a little bit of a different angle around how they’re doing it. I’m just curious if you find that.
Sherry Gaba: That’s a really good point. Rescue, fix, manipulate, control – I think it just is across the board. Maybe it looks more like rescue/fix when you’re a male, but honestly, in my membership program “Wake-up recovery for codependence”, I see just as many males. In fact, I see many males more active, more involved. They also struggle a lot with codependency. So I would say it’s almost the same across the board; it’s this need to fill yourself up. It’s a distraction from yourself. For me it was an obsession with trying to get my alcoholic husband sober. That’s one element of codependency. But you can also big — a big issue is around codependents and narcissists. Narcissists and codependents seem to be a magnet for each other. Narcissists really need to have somebody take care of them, and the codependent feels most alive when they’re taking care of someone.
Then what happens is when the narcissist meets its needs or gets what it wants, then it sort of discards the codependent, and the needy codependent is just devastated and in complete terror… Because what attracted them to that narcissist is what we call love-bombing; this gets into a whole other area of narcissism… But the narcissist knows exactly what to say to the codependent to draw them in. They make the codependent feel beautiful, and needed, and “I want you/You’re so wonderful”, and then this codependent is spending the rest of their relationship searching that which the narcissist gave them in the beginning, which is what they never got growing up, or as a child.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And you mentioned trauma… How does trauma fit into codependency?
Sherry Gaba: So like I was saying earlier, when you don’t receive what you need as a child, your emotional growth is stunted. So if you were neglected, or abused, or had really emotionally unavailable parents, or you became a little adult, or what we call a parentified child – a lot of children from divorce are parentified – this really sets you up for difficult adult relationships.
Victims of trauma have a really false reality of themselves. They don’t even know who their self is, because they didn’t get that early connection. And that’s another great word… We say the opposite of addiction is connection. So for a codependent, the opposite of their disease is connection, so they become codependent because they’re just craving connection, but it’s a very unhealthy connection.
So they don’t really trust their emotions because they can’t access what their true feelings are, the reason being is they were invisible as a child. Like I said – neglect, unavailable parents, addict parents… So they learned at an early age that their feelings didn’t really count. They weren’t heard, or validated, or seen, they weren’t acknowledged, no one focused on them, so they learned to focus on everything else around them, thus being very other-focused. So that’s really at the foundation…
So really, the healing starts with finding your true self. If you don’t have an intimate relationship with yourself, that intimate connection with yourself, it’s gonna be really difficult to have an intimate relationship with another.
We have a lot of people that will say “Oh, I keep picking unavailable partners”, so one of the questions I always ask is “Well, are you unavailable to yourself?” Because there is a reason you’re picking these people; it’s not just you’re picking them because. So it’s like your two halves trying to become a whole, rather than two wholes. It’s very interesting…
And then of course, there’s the element of shame. Shame is rooted obviously in childhood programming, and the shame and the faulting programming that you receive in childhood can really result in these codependent behaviors, low self-esteem, not feeling good enough, anger, resentment, depression, anxiety. These are all things that make you more vulnerable to a predator (again, a narcissist) or abuse. You don’t always end up in those relationships, but it happens quite often. It’s, again, a result of being the giver and always having people take from you… And you just have a really difficult time receiving relationships.
I have one client I’m working with and she’s with a narcissist, and she’s a codependent, and she’s just absolutely frozen. She cannot receive; she doesn’t even understand what that would look like… And she can’t leave this toxic relationship because it’s a reminder of being young, and being parentified; her father dying when she was young, having to step in and kind of take the role of taking care of her mother… And so now she’s just in this relationship that we’re just trying to kind of defrost her so she can move forward.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: It sounds like what you’re saying is there’s a beginning step of being able to connect with a sense of self, or even being able to have a reference inward before perhaps being able to set limits, or set boundaries… Can you help a little bit with how somebody who has experienced some level of codependency can start connecting with their authentic self?
Sherry Gaba: Well, obviously, the first step really is just being here right now and listening to this podcast, and understanding, having an awareness. There’s all kinds of programs out there; finding a really good therapist that can help unleash some of this toxic energy that’s inside of you… You might wanna fine someone that really understands trauma, that does trauma work, because generally that’s where it all began. So maybe someone that does EMDR, or somatic experiencing, or tapping… You know, finding a really good modality for trauma… And then finding a program. They can join my program, which we’ll talk about later, or they can get into Al-Anon, or Codependence Anonymous, or for some Love and Sex Addict Anonymous…
I think the biggest issue is connecting to that trauma inside, and really embodying their body so they can be with themselves… Because again, addiction is really wanting to leave your body, to distract, to be outside of yourself… And we know that healing starts, like you said, inward, from the inside out. So it’s really about learning how to have an intimate relationship with yourself. You probably need time alone to discover… I don’t really put a rule on it, but after a breakup, spending some time getting to know yourself and doing the work, going through the healing.
It’s not a quick fix; it takes time. I had to do some trauma work myself… And then I did things that were fun. I took up [unintelligible 00:18:10.02] I made new friends, I started to find out “Who am I?” Because really, codependency is, like we talked about, a loss of self. We don’t even know what our self is.
So it’s kind of scary at first, because it’s kind of like asking yourself “Who am I if I’m not taking care of you? Who am I if I’m not obsessed with you? Who am I if I’m not codependent on you?” So it’s a journey, it’s a process, uncovering and discovering who you really are.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: I know this morning that question was coming up in my session, and we were rooting around with him — I mean, I’ve worked with him and his soon-to-be probably ex-wife, and one of the things he was asking was just finding himself, and some of what we were talking about, the fears that drive his… He was calling it absorbing, or being counter-balancing her moods… And I think that gets at some of those traumas – fear of abandonment, fear of even angry attacks, or fear of not feeling safe, or fear of overwhelm…
Also, I wonder how resentment shows up in this, because one of the things that we’re talking about is points of which it reached a threshold for him and that resentment perhaps bubbled up, and he could hear that more authentic like “I need to have more peace” or “I wanna have more community and friends.” They live a very professional, fast-paced life, and just the stress of that all… Like, living more simply.
Sherry Gaba: I was just gonna say, resentment and anger… Someone who has a lot of anger, resentment – probably just around the corner is codependency… Because what they’ve learned to do is hold in their feelings. They’re sort of like a pressure cooker.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: That’s what I was gonna ask – did you see a correlation of the resentment with codependency?
Sherry Gaba: Oh, yeah. It’s absolutely one of the telltale signs that somebody is codependent. And it’s because they haven’t been expressing their feelings. And it’s not like they woke up one day and said “I’m just gonna be a stuffer of my feelings.” It’s because of that early trauma piece. So once they start acknowledging who they are and what they want and what their preferences are and what they need and become less other-focused, then that whole resentment can dissolve, because now they’re gonna get their needs met. But if you’re constantly saying yes when you really mean no, and having really weak boundaries – yeah, you’re gonna be resentful. And this is really common…
Even addicts and alcoholics – often underneath there is codependency. I always share my ex-husband’s story, and he doesn’t mind… Although right now unfortunately he’s not sober… He’s in and out of sobriety… But underneath his addiction was codependency; he couldn’t say no at his job. He had a really important job for the studios. He was a customer, and they were just giving him more and more work… And he just didn’t know how to say no. He was just absolutely fear-based that they would let him go, and they would find somebody younger… And unfortunately, he fell off a scaffold, and [unintelligible 00:21:09.10] painkillers, and the rest is history.
So it’s really important to know how to say no and know what your capacity is, because eventually you are gonna be a pressure cooker; that water is gonna boil over, and there you are. And it could be activated in drugs, alcohol, all these soft addictions we talked about – binge eating food, [unintelligible 00:21:29.23] And codependency is a soft addiction, and it can often be the result of this pressure cooker.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yeah, and I wonder if there’s even some cultural reinforcement along the way. This client I’m referring to – he was saying very early on “I felt that I needed to be a good kid to make it easier for my parents”, and that paradigm of being successful, and how that was potentially reinforced all throughout growing up, and even into adulthood… And those implicit taking on of responsibility – I just wonder if you see that as well around the over-functioning or the over-absorbing.
Sherry Gaba: Perfectionist. If you’re told to be perfect or you’re wanting to please your parents, we call that the hero. There’s different types in a family; there’s the scapegoat, there’s the lost child… And I would say the person that’s always trying to please and be perfect is the hero. We often see when there’s behavioral issues in a sibling, the one that doesn’t have the behavioral issues or isn’t the addict (let’s say), they become the good girl, or the good boy, and then it’s all about being a pleaser.
It’s really being an adult parentified child. It’s like trying to just lock out what you need, and you don’t wanna make waves because your parents are going through so much. I had one client whose sister definitely had conduct disorder, and eventually became an addict, and my client just became a good girl… And then eventually she got OCD. It manifested in all these other ways – high anxiety… Because her feelings didn’t count. And not only did they not count, it was the parents used her as a sounding board for this other difficult child.
So yeah, we’ve gotta be really careful of the lost children, the heroes in the family… I’m thinking about a client, another alcoholic; they’re already grown adults, but this mother could just not let go of controlling and being in fear of this addict child, and sort of neglected the other adult child… And I guess also when they were kids… And it’s awful for the other child. It really is. Because then they grow up not even knowing what their needs are, or what they want.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And it just sounds as though in these family dynamics that it’s almost the codependent child or the lost child that then develops the codependent tendencies; it’s absorbing and also attempting to hold some equilibrium for all the dysfunction perhaps…
Sherry Gaba: Yeah, that would be a way to say it. We could even get woo-woo and say they’re holding the negative energy, the toxic energy of the dysfunction of the family. It seems like people that grow up with trauma also can be very empathic, they can be called empaths; they really do have a sensitivity that others don’t, because they have been so attuned to everything around them… So you often will have clients say “Oh, I think I’m psychic” or “I feel what other people feel”, or are very sensitive to a lot of stimulation… And it may sound kind of woo-woo when I say “Oh, they’re an empath”, because it is kind of a non-clinical term… But there is some truth to that.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, and I am a fan of Elaine Aaron and The Highly Sensitive Person. I don’t know if you’ve looked at any of her research or her work, and how that might relate to this attunement or sensitivity…
Sherry Gaba: Yeah.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: So coming back to codependency – I like that you had mentioned it’s possible that there’s these implied responsibilities that a codependent might just take on without any explicit conversation, or agreements, or talking about “Does that work for me, or not work for me?” It’s just implied that that person’s gonna absorb and take it on. I know my client was saying, just all the implicit responsibility that he took on, with his parents… And you just see account after account of where he’s done that without any discussion whatsoever. It sounds so extensive as we’re really naming some of this…
Sherry Gaba: Right. I mean, if it’s not a disorder, it should be in a diagnostic manual, because to me it really is a disorder. It really hurts me that there’s so much focus on the addict alcoholic, there’s zillions of rehabs, but you can count on two fingers how many programs are out there for codependents. That’s why I’m so passionate about this, and that’s why I created my program… Because not everybody can afford therapy, not everybody can afford a treatment for codependency, because they don’t usually take insurance, like a rehab would… So we’re really behind the times.
I believe codependency can be just as fatal as addiction. They’ve done studies, people that are codependent — I mean, I look at myself; I had shingles, I had a staph infection, kidney stones, I started losing hair… We know that high blood pressure is an issue, heart issues, high anxiety, PTSD… All these things can happen to the codependent, and it’s not really being treated.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Right. Autoimmune, all the gut health…
Sherry Gaba: Autoimmune, definitely. And what did you say, the gut issues, or…?
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Mm-hm.
Sherry Gaba: Yeah, for sure. I see that all the time.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And what are you seeing with the pandemic and how people are having to either shelter in place, or be more restrictive around their activities… What are you seeing as the dynamics around codependency?
Sherry Gaba: So the pandemic is really a slippery slope, because not only is there the stress of the pandemic and getting the virus, or somebody you love getting the virus, but also the financial problem. So here you are, living 24/7 with your partner most likely, and if you don’t have strong boundaries and your boundaries aren’t clear, your partner is definitely gonna take advantage of you.
So it’s really important that if one partner is not working, or the other partner is carrying the weight financially, they really need to be mindful of their controlling behavior, their resentment, like we talked about earlier… It’s so important really to stay on your path and not distract on the other person’s path, not get into their business, just really focus on yourself, giving others the space and the support when they need it.
When you’re under stress, many codependent behaviors such as anger, and neediness, and resentment, and becoming controlling – it really rears its ugly head. So I think just really being mindful and compassionate and showing lots of loving kindness to each other, staying connected to your recovery is super, super-important.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: And speaking of recovery, what are some ways to break free from this codependent patterning with a significant other? You’re talking about some inner work and adjusting to trauma, and perhaps mindfulness, really getting to know who you are in your authentic self, and what are some other ways that people can change the dynamic in relationship?
Sherry Gaba: So the good news is that the symptoms are reversible, and a codependent can enter treatment, whether it’s (like we talked about) a therapist, and do trauma work… But they don’t generally seek treatment, unfortunately, till there’s this big crisis, and they’ve hit rock bottom, like I did, pretty much…
So really, recovery begins right now, here, on this podcast; it begins with education… It’s really important to get out of denial. Stop thinking that this person’s gonna be who you want them to be, rather than who they really are. Either accept them for where they’re at, or not.
You know, reading about codependency, maybe picking up my book, Love Smacked, like I talked about earlier, getting therapy, Al-Anon, CoDA… You know, in recovery you gain hope, and focus… Basically, it’s just from being other-focused to really focusing on yourself. And there’s different stages; there’s the middle stage, the late stage, the parallels recovery from other addictions… In the middle stage you begin to build your own identity, self-esteem, and the ability to assertively express feelings, and wants, and needs, and you learn about self-responsibility, and boundaries, and self-care, you learn about early childhood trauma, PTSD…
And then of course, in the later stages there’s happiness, self-esteem doesn’t depend on others, and then you gain the capacity for autonomy and intimacy. You experience your own power of self-love, and you feel expansive, and creative, and resourceful, with the ability to generate and pursue your own goals and interests.
So codependency doesn’t automatically disappear when a person leaves a codependent relationship, but recovery really does — it’s a muscle you have to continually exercise; it requires ongoing maintenance… And there really is no perfect abstinence. Codependent behavior can return, under stress, like we talked about with the pandemic, or even in the new relationship we see a lot of anxious attachment type codependency coming up… So there’s really no perfect recovery; it’s just a process.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Gotcha. Okay. Well, before we start transitioning to how people can get to know what you’re offering, is there anything else that you wanna say or talk about around codependency as it relates to relationship?
Sherry Gaba: Well, I think it’s something that just needs to be not hidden. We need to talk about it, and we need to understand it. We can’t minimize it. And you know, just really getting out of your denial and your fantasy of what you wish someone to be, and really accepting who they are, if that means falling in love with an addict, or a narcissist; really be aware of your tendency to go in that direction.
As far as relationships go, just be really clear and discerning who is good for you, what is good for you, have you done your early trauma work… That’s what I can say. There is help out there; I can say “There’s so much help out there”, but there is help out there.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Yes, Sherry, and as you’re talking, it just sounds like a lot of the underpinnings of the codependent tendency is to give and provide and fix and help, but all in the interest of getting one’s needs met, but in a very indirect and hopeful way, but often that is not what happens, and so being able to really do the deeper work, to look at those traumas, to get aligned, get authentic and start advocating and really showing up for that sense of self and negotiating relationship with that authenticity.
Sherry Gaba: Yeah, that’s very well said. And check out different meetings… If you’re interested, I have a program called “Wake-up recovery for codependency and toxic relationships.” I know you’ll have the link in the show notes… It’s really a treasure trove of all the work that I’ve done the last — gosh, I’ve been in this field for 20 years, and I’ve had this membership for three years, so it’s an endless amount for interviews, and there’s a couple of courses in there, there’s worksheets, and meditations… It’s a dollar to join, so you can check it out; if it speaks to you – great; if not, you can always cancel.
And then I have my book, Love Smacked, which is on Amazon, and then I also have a free eBook that will be in your show notes about codependency, “The truth about codependency”, so check that out.
If you just google my name, I have all kinds of free content out there. My Instagram is called @codependencycurious. And that’s really the best way to find me, is through Instagram, SherryGaba.com, and then the links that you put in your show notes.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Well, I love that you are so passionate about educating and helping people in their recovery journey with codependency, and the wealth of resources that you’re offering. I’ll make sure to put all of these links on today’s show notes.
Sherry Gaba: Well, thank you for having me, and good luck with your podcast and your message to the world.
Dr. Jessica Higgins: Thank you.
I hope you have enjoyed today’s interview, again, with Sherry Gaba. If you would like access to today’s show notes, I wanna remind you you can visit DrJessicaHiggins.com If you click on Podcast, you’ll find today’s episode, 260, “How to break free from codependency in relationship”, an interview with Sherry Gaba.
On the show notes you’ll also find a free guide, “Shifting criticism into connected communication.” This is particularly helpful when we are feeling this disrupt and this disconnect, and we’re trying to get our partner’s attention, and perhaps we use logic, and we point out facts, and our partner is getting defensive with us, and we might wonder “How come they’re not hearing me? What’s the problem here?” And so often when we use our intellect, we’re pointing out the evident, so to speak, and we’re using logic to appeal to our partner… And really truthfully, they’re not that interested in right or wrong or logic. They’re really interested – and you might not believe it, but they are – in how it impacts you. Again, as I said in the beginning part of the show, where your vulnerability is when they do X, Y and Z.
So this guide gives a side by side comparison so you can see what a critical tendency might look like in comparison to using more of this reveal, or this vulnerability in the request. Again, you can access that on today’s show notes; you can also find it on the website’s homepage. Again, the free guide, “Shifting criticism into connected communication.”
Until next time, I hope you take great care.
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